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Comp cape without reaper fix

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Nex†is†Life

Nex†is†Life

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Lord†Kylle said:

This already exists, it's called max cape. If you're a skiller... that's what you get.

How is this req even a problem. Literally every boss except telos rax qbd is leechable. All the people in this thread insist the entire PvM community is so toxic that's why they can't get a single kill in every boss, the truth is they can't beat the solo bosses.
Join pvming fc ask for a team or wait for one, say you're a learner or say need 1 kill for comp and go for one kill. That's it. You don't even have to survive the entire kill in raids. I don't know how but the teachers there have endless patience. If you're put off by toxic people, that's the place to go.

If you can't do 1 qbd kill there is no hope for you. Quit.
I've killed Rax in legacy with T70s with every style so I have I no idea how people can't do this boss. Assuming this is one of the last requirements for comp, you will have maxed combat, overloads, curses, yak. Wait for whichever path you feel is easiest (probably 3 with 2 open), keep your hp high and pay attention. You can also use deathtouched darts, either to skip phase 4 or the entire fight.
A Telos kill. At just 100% enrage you can bring a mammoth and tank every mechanic. For phase 5 run to the green beam, eat to full and onslaught. Leave the room and make a cup of tea.
If that's too hard, again deathtouched darts.

IMO those darts shouldn't count for comp req, but if you are actually so bad at this game these requirements are too hard this is your get out of jail free card. Cry that they are available once a year but odds are if you're near comp, you've been playing for years.
If you want to complete every aspect the game you should be willing to put some time in to learn basic combat. Why? Because combat and bosses are a part of this game; ergo earing a "completionist" cape requires doing them.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

03-Mar-2018 19:44:02

Nex†is†Life

Nex†is†Life

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I don't like skilling, or Livid Farm, or the Arc, or Mage Arena (al kharid), I don't like the time I have to put into them, but they are a part of the game, and so they should be a comp req. I want to comp and I'm not whining for them to be removed, I'm going to suck it up and do them... eventually.

I'm probably going to get called a toxic elitist or whatever for telling you noobs to suck it up too, but I don't really care, and I don't like crybabies. I helped many people get their books from AoD on release, I happily take 0kcs to raids all the time, I've brought tonnes of people to their first encounter at a boss. People who say the entire community are elitists who only the best on their team are wrong, because there are plenty of people who are out there willing to help. For free.
YES you will see many groups of players going to bosses who only want experienced people. That's because taking learners isn't the same as camping AoD getting consistent, fast kills and making tens of millions of gp an hour. Some people only do this kind of PvM, others do this but and are happy to help others, and a few devote much of their game time to teaching. So you shouldn't be put off.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

03-Mar-2018 20:02:04

Nex†is†Life

Nex†is†Life

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Lord†Kylle said:

Alright there might be a few whiners who have posted here, but what you're saying here has not much to do with why I created this thread :)

I was more ranting in general about the people who cry about reaper title.

Dilbert2001 said:
Music as a game achievement is definitely a farce to begin with. Audio/visual effects are not real game content and never even mentioned as "achievements" in other games.

The problem with Comp music tracks unlock requirement is far from just the sheer numbers or boss areas. There are some music tracks that can't be accessible on a daily basis. Most minigames are dead, so it may take a players months to get even a chance to unlock that piece of music when that minigame is on spotlight. There are worse cases too... luck the music that unlocks only in the once a year summer Beach event when the game spawns Clawdia.

Music Tracks should just be flated out removed from any kind of achievements, not just completionist.

The music tracks are a kind of exploration requirement as you have to visit every area and try every piece of content to unlock them all.
The problem with certain minigames' tracks is that those minigame are dead content, and therefore the problem lies with the minigames themselves. Jagex seem to be working on removing them or making them relevant.
Regarding the beach event song, it should be made available all year round, obviously that is ridiculous.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

03-Mar-2018 20:07:27

Nex†is†Life

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Lord†Kylle said:

Well I have heard a lot of people complain and say reaper title shouldn't be a comp req, and that's why jmods are talking about removing it, because they insist upon babying players instead of encouraging them to learn.

With the current bosses in game I do not think it is an unreasonable requirement. And I'm going to note that enrage mechanics play a big part in letting everyone have a fair chance at comp whilst keeping bosses challenging.
With group bosses, the biggest problems are unwillingness to learn and unwillingness to reach out and find people to go with. I think the skill level to either leechps or perform a simple role at any group boss is easier than solo pvm - Rax/Telos. An exception being Vorago, certainly HM Vorago, as you actually have to pay attention and do stuff. Not that it's remotely hard to no role normal rago for Reaper.

Solak, that's ifs and maybes and assuming content released by Jagex isn't a huge, underwhelming, overhyped disappointment. I expect, like all other bosses ever, Solak to be reasonable for someone without a lot of PvM experience to get a kill in, once mechanics have been worked out and strategies developed.
If Jagex really are going to make a boss that has every member team of experienced PvMers pushed to their limits, which I highly doubt, then... GG. You shouldn't be a completionist unless you do it.
If Jagex do cave in about reaper title, which they probably would, then I would hope as a bare minimum that all solo bosses including 100% enrage telos are still needed (someone suggested morvran's challenge being expanded) and that there are at least some other requirements involving existing group bosses rather than cutting them out completely of comp. Yakamaru II track is a good one.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

03-Mar-2018 21:38:59

Nex†is†Life

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T†E†M†P said:
>>>I could never do something like Vorago or Raids which require 9 strangers and, in some cases, voice chat<<<

Same here!
Voice chat is out of the question, for myself and many others.

Look another dumb excuse people use.
1.) Make friends
2.) Is a brief experience on a game with 9 people you don't know that hard
3.) Some people might ask you to use voice chat, but not everybody and it not certainly not essential
4.) "Voice chat" learning a boss doesn't mean you have to talk or even own a microphone, just listen to callouts. You have sound, right?
5.) Again, you really don't need voice chat at all
6.) I leeched a level 69 through raids, so take a moment to appreciate that you are worse than that level 69. And no, they didnt pay.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

03-Mar-2018 21:48:48

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
Look another dumb excuse people use to defend reaper

Friends/groups of people shouldn't be required for a solo piece of content.

Again group shouldn't be a req for a solo piece of content

At the point of leeching, what is the difference between having it be a req and having leeches count. In both circumstances the player doesn't actually complete the content.

The comp cape isn't solo content.
We both know you didn't solo 120 DG.

Regarding leeching, theres no real way to tell but frankly it doesn't matter. You have at least given the content a feel.

yggdrsil said:
Truthfully a name to change comp cape would in most cases shut up the git -gud community but instead of a add on why not make a cape the opposite of max cape for the pvmer that hate skilling (pretty much requires a boss kill of everything with stats similer to current max cape) that when combined with the newly renamed cape becomes something more akin to the comp cape.
Option 2 instead of name change just give the give the cape effects of capes you own to max cape as well.

The Final boss and Insane Final boss exist for this. If I had a cape same as max/max cape itself I wouldn't use it anyway, I'd rather have that 5 damage from Kiln cape, I'd much rather use a Spirit Cape, which is BiS after comp if you have a titan out.
On a related note, I don't think Boss Portal in Max guild should be locked behind thousands of hours of skilling and 0 PvM requirements.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

04-Mar-2018 12:02:51

Nex†is†Life

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
Look another dumb excuse people use to defend reaper

Friends/groups of people shouldn't be required for a solo piece of content.

Again group shouldn't be a req for a solo piece of content

At the point of leeching, what is the difference between having it be a req and having leeches count. In both circumstances the player doesn't actually complete the content.

The comp cape isn't solo content.
We both know you didn't solo 120 DG.

Regarding leeching, theres no real way to tell but frankly it doesn't matter. You have at least given the content a feel.

A†Mad†Hatter said:
Idk if anyone already brought this up, but I didn't see it in the parts of the thread that I read at all and was wondering...

Let's say they get rid of the Reaper requirement. Wouldn't you still need to get the boss music tracks to get comp anyway? Wouldn't that mean that you have to at least kill a few group bosses to unlock something that might be hidden behind phase changes or something (only one I can think of is needing to kill at least the beastmaster raids boss to get to Yaka, but idk if anything else like that is in the game and I just missed it because of not doing group bosses)?

All of them but two can unlocked by simply entering a boss room and leaving. For AoD the energy has to be clicked, but you could go in with 0 items and let her kill you.
The two exceptions, as you mentioned, are Yakamaru I and II, for which the first one needs to defeat* BM, and second is unlocked partway through the Yakamaru fight.

*Tag. You can die or leave the area as long as the boss is finished.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

04-Mar-2018 12:10:10 - Last edited on 04-Mar-2018 12:10:40 by Nex†is†Life

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:

So multiple people can wear your cape? and actually funny you say that, cause I did solo 200m dung.

Just standing in a corner in a boss room is not giving the content a feel. There is no difference between that leecher and one who doesn't even do the boss.

I know you said that but I quoted that part for those who say comp cape is the "completionist" cape because in truth it isn't a completionist cape. If the cape was to be about completing everything half the stuff from trim would be required for comp(those left being only the extremist stuff) and MQC should be required for comp cape if it was. So I don't see why leaving off one of the group contents off comp cape( group bosses eg reaper title) would be any different than leaving MQC off.

Guess you cheesed it with sinkholes and dailies then.
RuneScape is an MMO. Note the second M. Not sure why you think group content should be shunted.

Maybe. But DG can be 100% leeched, guess it shouldn't be a comp req?
There isn't any kind of barrier between leeching and enjoying experiencing content when it comes to unlocking a cape, but it's better than completely avoiding said content. Although the level 69 I took had great time, got dragged under BM with 40something constitution and will go again.

So completition cape doesn't actually mean completing absolutely everything in the game, guess every requirement you don't like should be taken off? lol no. It should be a prestigious and hard to get cape.
MQC is for finding all lore, finding post-quest content, reading books scattered throughout the game it's not a "stuff left out of comp cape" cape. I like that it's a prestigous cape that doesn't require max, and is far rarer than max, too bad about the 90 in all skills requirement to open some chest, which I think is daft.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

04-Mar-2018 16:31:54

Nex†is†Life

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B†I†L†L†Y said:
nex how do you feel about letting the comps vote

I feel it would be fair to let people who have earned their comp capes have the final say into whether it is devalued or not.

I do think that in that poll keeping reaper as a requirement would win, but either way I would support having that poll to decide.
Most people who want reaper removed are maxednotcomped because bad at this game.

EDIT: Obviously, I am against removing reaper, or any other current requirement from comp. This is because I think comp cape should be a high goal to strive for, not something handed out to everybody. I also think harder to complete tasks that take less time, such as reaper, are more better requirements - for goals/capes/titles and in general than just grinding skills and grinding this and grinding that for thousands of hours with no skill nor strategy.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

04-Mar-2018 16:34:40 - Last edited on 04-Mar-2018 16:40:33 by Nex†is†Life

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:

Wrong again, solo dungs all the way, solo smalls floor 30+ rushing anything below

Just because it is a MMO doesn't mean everything has to be Multiplayer

Difference between raids and DG, dung can be soloed, raids can't.

Being a leecher who stands in a corner isn't enjoying the experience nor actually experiencing the content

And shouldn't rely on other people get a cape

In most games completing the story is beating the game.
So why should the story aspect not be a part of comp but a group boss should.

I didn't say there was anything wrong with the sinkholes/dailies way. Solo smalls all the way on the other hand, what a waste of time.

I didn't say that solo content shouldn't exist, my point was group content is a huge part of the game.

Missed my point again. You can participate in raids, or leech it. You can participate in DG, or leech. Why should someting not be a requirement just because it CAN be leeched, and why does that apply to PvM but not DG?

Yes they are the same, and the comp cape requirements list can't tell whether you leeched or enjoyed content. That doesn't mean that something shouldn't be a requirement. As my point above, how can your cape tell whether you stood in the starting room of a dungeon until others finished it?

You're not relying on others, your problem is YOU can't play your part in a group.

I don't disagree about story, and yes all lore could be put into comp in my opinion. That said completing the story is doing all quests and minigames/extras. Reading a book about a character's origin isn't necessarily essential to complete the plot involving them.

If completing the game is completing the story, what does skilling have to do with that? Maybe I should part it in your words:
So why should the pvm aspect not be a part of comp but maxing should.
At least bosses have lore behind them.

For the record I do think maxing should be a requirement
You'll get it when you deserve it.

04-Mar-2018 17:58:10

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:

we have 2 modes that are solo only

Because DG can be done solo, a group boss cannot.

Missed the point again. What is the difference between having someone get comp cape through leeches not doing anything with the boss, or someone who got comp without the boss req. There is none.

Ad hominem again tsk tsk. Relying on others to be able to complete a boss eg even starting the encounter is relying on them no matter how good you think you are.

Beating a boss once with other people isn't either yet ones a req that has no real meaning in the game, and another is actual lore.

Forget MMORPG again? Has many aspects, lore, pvm, skilling. If you limit what one puts into a cape then you can limit what the others do.

But Ironmen can do group PvM, proof of it's importantance.

My point was about leeching.

You missed the point again. What is the difference between having someone get comp cape through leeches not doing anything in DG, or someone who got comp without DG. There is none.
And I'm saying both group PvM and DG should be on there, not that either shouldn't.

Other people have no problem with group bosses, so the problem IS with people who can't get reaper done. Blaming others, blaming teams, calling the entire pvm community toxic and unbearable are the ways people deflect from their personal inability to do the boss.

Many bosses drop lore books, which you have said are a part of the story - I agree; other than that here is a good example.
Telos. Is awoken by the raging battle in GWD2, and rises from the Heart to destroy the Gielinor, but is stopped by the World Guardian. Fun fact, they scrapped a cutscene of it destroying the world if you die.
Obviously is doesn't apply to everything, like Giant Mole, but the player defeating all the big bads is a part of the story. If you complain that I didn't bring up a group PvM example I'll starting writing about all the lore behind the Liberation of Mazcab.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

04-Mar-2018 18:44:12

Nex†is†Life

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Steelweaver said:
I mean, other people having no problem with group bosses just shows that they managed to find a group to do it, not necessarily that they even did the boss in the first place.

It's obviously not true, but lets propose that every single person with a Completionist Cape had leeched or had to pay
Would that, in any way, make the Reaper title a good requirement for the cape?

While a Completionist should have dabbled in a majority of the game, should it also be tied with being part of the top 0.1% of the playerbase?

So what's stopping everyone else finding a group then? Nothing.

No, obviously only a small minority of people who got every other comp requirement leeched their kills. Just like a small minority paid to leech DG. Ok so this content shouldn't be on comp because it can be leeched?

I'm pretty sure ONE KILL can be accurately defined as dabbling.

With current bosses, no, comp is not restricted to 0.1% of the playerbase. The only things that aren't massable are raids and rots, raids you don't even have to survive.
It takes minimal ability current to do all group bosses once. If you have everything else for comp then you have maxed combat and a yak mammoth. It really shouldn't be a problem.
In the current state of the game, Reaper title is a completely reasonable requirement.
As a PvMer, I hope Solak really will be that hard, but I doubt it. The people who want Reaper removed now are mostly maxednotcomp people who can't deal with existing bosses because they afk revo and don't know how to eat.

It's people complaining about group content who want reaper removed, who have never even tried group content, and some who can't kill rax/telos once (but won't admit it), even with their enrage mechanics to let everyone have a shot.
Their problem is not with a unreleased boss which may or may not require a great deal of experience and calcuation from the entire team.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

04-Mar-2018 20:17:11 - Last edited on 04-Mar-2018 20:36:03 by Nex†is†Life

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:

MMORPG

Yet your argument is based on a flawed base. Dung can be soloed, group bosses can't, so the leeching aspect has no impact in that.
Dung can be soloed by players group bosses cannot.

Ever since reaper was announced as a comp req plenty of people have had a problem with group bosses as a req.

Yeah and those should be required for an actual comp cape, but you do not unlock a lore story by killing a boss in a group of players so that is different. Again it seems like you are pick and choosing what you think should be on the comp cape.

MMORPG

My original point was in response to this
Kcin said:
Just standing in a corner in a boss room is not giving the content a feel. There is no difference between that leecher and one who doesn't even do the boss.
The same can be applied to DG. The option is there to leech it.


And everyone else had no problem. And some of those people who did got up and found teams and did them. Nothing stopping you.

I'm not picking and choosing, people crying about reaper title are.
AoD drops lore books required for MQC. And they do indeed tell a story. So I guess you think AoD should be mandatory for comp? Or are YOU going to pick and choose and say not that one actually?
You'll get it when you deserve it.

04-Mar-2018 20:31:52 - Last edited on 04-Mar-2018 20:38:03 by Nex†is†Life

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:

Ironman mode

Yes the option is there, but there is also the option to complete it solo. Group bosses do not have the option to solo them. That is the difference how hard is that to understand for you?

Yes people do have problem with them or else Jagex wouldn't have made the group bosses toggleable for soul reaper.

Maybe if you read and understood what I have been saying you would already have that answer.

Ironmen have access to group content.

Regardless of whether you can solo a piece of content, do you agree that just because you have the option to leech something, or partake in it solo or otherwise that shouldn't rule it out as a requirement?

Some people had a probelm. Everyone else didn't. What seperates those two groups? It's neither ability nor experience. It's unwillingness.

So you do support AoD (group content btw) being a comp requirement.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

04-Mar-2018 21:56:36

Nex†is†Life

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Wolfblue42 said:

But there is a huge difference between bosses that are being fought every minute of every day, with infinite repeatability value and that quest you did once once when you were noob.
Bringing up the blood altar tab for tasks, again the problem was that minigame being dead content.
This game does have an ingame grouping system for bosses. OK, it doesn't work at all. My point is that it's there, ingame and therefore finding groups is a part of the game. The teamwork forums are active and there are numerous active FCs anyone can join.

And here is your problem: the arena of elitism and group availabilty
It simply is a myth, and the only barrier is people thinking otherwise. First of all, there are teams for every boss at all times of day. Secondly, if you try to join an experienced team who aren't looking to teach someone you're probably going to be told no. If you get told yes, then you might get told your gear is bad, your rotations are bad, you're bad, whatever. Not that people shouldn't be polite about this.
If you want to learn group bossing, or want one kill for your comp you need to look elsewhere. There are FCs specifically for learners and helping people. You can find them and other teams/communities on the teamwork forums.
But it's your choice not to.

Better off getting players off the achievement train? It's your choice to disembark and not get comp. Removing the boss requirements would just make more people miss out on a core aspect of the game.
Time-gated auras? Come on. ONE kill. ONE. Not that aurascape isn't a problem, and I hate anything and everything time gated, but you're not locked out of getting one kill by an aura timer. Also, meta? You don't have to be using the meta for your one comp kill. And in any case, even on experienced teams that expect fast kills, most people understand that you can't use the best aura 24/7.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

04-Mar-2018 22:20:25 - Last edited on 04-Mar-2018 22:23:24 by Nex†is†Life

Nex†is†Life

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Zparanoid said:

Speaking as someone who isn't a specialist PVMer, but does enjoy the occasional bit of endgame combat content, I think that the Reaper title on comp cape is beneficial to the game, and serves an important role in the player path of progression through the game.

And players that straight up refuse to participate in any group content (for whatever reason), are intentionally limiting themselves. In that sense they are a player-defined class (call it 'strictly solo'), in a similar way that lvl 3 skillers or 1 defence pures are player-defined
classes. I don't think that the game should be changed to accommodate their self-imposed limitations.

Exactly this. Some people might do their one kill and never come back, others will enjoy it and go on to do more PvM. There is no reason to close off part of the game to people when it helps the game grow, by giving players a reason to open doors that might otherwise be left closed.
It's down to choice and unwillingness that people don't do group bosses.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

04-Mar-2018 22:39:43

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:

They are restricted from the multiplayer aspect so therefore not everything has to have the multiplayer aspect. If there wasn't interest in solo content that wouldn't exist.

If i can be soloed it has a place on a solo piece of content requirements, if it requires a group it has no place being a req for a solo piece of content. Comp cape already leaves out a ton of stuff in the game so what is so wrong about leaving out group bosses? What is the difference between leaving group bosses out of comp cape and leaving out the castle wars req.

No its logic. It makes no sense for solo content to be locked behind a group. Jagex has recognized this in the fact they made group bosses toggleable on the soul reaper.

Not everything has to be solo content either. Also you're talking like I'm against solo content, which isn't true.
Again the ironman argument is dumb because they can do group bosses and minigames. Also group ironman mode is coming out soon tm ;)

At the end of the day, there is going to be group content in an MMO. Of course there's lots of soloable stuff and personal achievement. But if you can't stand playing with other people, this is the wrong genre for you.

Who decided comp was solo content again?
To "complete" a multiplayer game you need to play with other players... colour me shocked.

It's your unwillingness that stops you from doing this content. There is no barrier. You didn't even respond to what I said there remotely in context.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

04-Mar-2018 22:48:44

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
[quote
No one is saying that, what people are I am saying is keep solo content to solo only reqs.

The quote to defend or promote anything on comp cape is dumb because there is no guidline.

Get back to me on that when you get multiple people to wear the cape you own and not their own.

I do like how you are unwilling to respond or even look at the fact that Jagex realizes group bosses are a screw up for solo content(soul reaper)

But comp isn't a solo only req. Who said it was? You're aiming to "complete" an MMO and team play is a part of that.

So a requirement you don't like should be taken off because other things aren't on there? Hmm, prestiging camel warrior kills isn't a comp req, guess we should take fishing off too.
But those AoD books are required for MQC, along with all other lore book drops. MQC does actually have guidelines. You're saying comp has no guidelines, so take requirements you don't like off and it should be solo content only because... because you say it should be.

So I guess all the minigames should be taken off Trim because other people can't wear your Trim cape?
M
M
O


The reaper title is a one time thing. Soul Reaper is a daily activity. Getting one kill in each group boss is not a lot to task for, but finding a team every day for various bosses could be annoying if you don't have friends who PvM. It's an option for people like you, not the standard, having a toggle there does not mean group bosses aren't a part of the game. Additionally, lower levels can do soul reaper, who want kbd/giant mole type tasks, may not have the stats to stand up to strong group bosses. Most high level solo/soloable bosses have entry requirements those low levels won't have, but KK, ROTS, Rago do not.

It's entirely your choice to only play solo and there is nothing physically stopping you doing group bosses.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

05-Mar-2018 01:00:51

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
So these things that take thousands of hours like cwars and champion scrolls are on trim, therefore relevant content should be taken off regular comp?
Again you're saying completionist doesn't require x, therefore take y requirement I don't like off.

Let's bring this up again ;)
Kcin said:

Get back to me on that when you get multiple people to wear the cape you own and not their own.
So can multiple people wear your trim cape? Or do you think all group content should be taken off that too?
If not, then how is regular comp "solo content" but not trim? Other people can't wear yours, right? Since that's your reasoning behind calling comp solo content. Why does it apply to one but not the other?
You'll get it when you deserve it.

05-Mar-2018 13:24:37

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:

How is killing raids once more notable than completing the slayer codex? Or getting tier 10 rep in meno? How is rots more notable than penance king? The reqs are arbitrary end of story.

So yes by your logic they should be on comp cape and not on trim only. If you disagree there is not a logical reason as to why to keep a req on comp
Ahh so you do agree comp cape is solo content. Avoidance of a given answer, answering a question with a question clearly shows you cannot answer it and know you are wrong.

No I don't know did you managed to come the conclusion I think comp is solo content. It isn't and shouldn't be. Comp cape is completing all/most content including group content.

I am not at all against more things being on comp, especially non-repeatables.
As for putting all trim reqs on, whats the point in having both capes then? I think trim is containment for requirements which take a daft amount of time (ps reaper title takes 5 minutes). But certainly some could be on regular comp.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

05-Mar-2018 22:54:43

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:

You're dismissing my argument soley on the grounds of a being a fallacy which is in itself a fallacy, as is picking that out over other points I've made.
My point, was asking you if you consider trim comp to be solo content as well because of the silly suggestion that because other people can't wear your cape, it's solo content. It's not.
Last time I checked other people couldn't wear my achto, so that can't be a correct definition of whether something is solo content or not.

You still resort to "well other things aren't on comp". How is that a reason to take more things off? If anything it's a reason to put more non-repeatable stuff on.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

06-Mar-2018 01:08:54 - Last edited on 06-Mar-2018 01:09:29 by Nex†is†Life

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
Actually you still never answered mine so whos the one dismissing arguments and talking about dismissed arguments:

No, I responded. Look:Nex†is†Life said:

You're dismissing my argument soley on the grounds of a being a fallacy which is in itself a fallacy, as is picking that out over other points I've made.
My point, was asking you if you consider trim comp to be solo content as well because of the silly suggestion that because other people can't wear your cape, it's solo content. It's not.
Last time I checked other people couldn't wear my achto, so that can't be a correct definition of whether something is solo content or not.

You still resort to "well other things aren't on comp". How is that a reason to take more things off? If anything it's a reason to put more non-repeatable stuff on.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

06-Mar-2018 04:26:09

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
Ignored again and brought back to a point you didn't answer comp cape is solo content, no others can help you towards 99% of the reqs and tried bringing up a point that group content has rewards.

Deflecting criticism with criticism whilst not actually answering, well played.

Other people not being able to wear your comp cape does not make it solo content. You can't hold the standards of other people not sharing your personal reward up to other rewards, unless you're also saying to remove group requirements from trim and MQC as other people can't wear your Trim/MQC, nor can you hold it up to group activity rewards because other people can't wear my Achto.

"Other people can't wear your comp therefore comp is solo content" is exactly what you claimed - here: Kcin said:
Get back to me on that when you get multiple people to wear the cape you own and not their own.
and what I have answered three times, answers that you avoided responding to three times with fallacies, and now you change your argument again to "99% of other requirements are solo".

What does it matter that other requirements are soloable? It's not a group content only cape nor a solo content only cape, it's a RuneScape content cape that includes both solo and group content.

Kcin said:
Why isn't the champ challenge on comp cape if reaper is...

I've already answered that twice, so have other people. Saying why isn't x a requirement is not a reason to remove y. Firstly you could use that argument against any requirement. Oh Champion scrolls aren't on there? Well why is burying Clarence? Secondly, that's more of reason to put some of those requirements on comp instead of taking some off.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

06-Mar-2018 15:55:30 - Last edited on 06-Mar-2018 16:01:00 by Nex†is†Life

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
Man ironman armor(ironman mode) isn't solo content either I see
Try to make this a coherent sentance please.

Kcin said:
Yet you haven't answered the point. Comp cape is a reward for a solo player "completing" the game(which it isnt but thats not the point here) where the vast majority (~99%) of the requirements is soloable content intended to give a reward to a single player. It was designed for a single player, where your "counter" was about raids which was directed from the start towards groups and no solo which comp was.

Since you're just quoting your old posts I'll do the same.
It's not a group content only cape nor a solo content only cape, it's a RuneScape content cape that includes both solo and group content.
Sure most requirements can be done without other people, but not all of them. If it's a "reward for a solo player" why is reaper on there? Because it's not a reward for a solo player, it's a reward for a player who has "completed" the game in all it's aspects.

Kcin said:
Why isn't the champ challenge on comp cape if reaper is.
Why is reaper so important to comp cape that you are so up in arms trying to defend it when there is a plethora of reasons why it is an arbitrary requirement that can easily be removed and replaced.
Why isn't Hard as daemons, why isn't nomad's mirage, why isn't diary of oreb, or the history of slayer. The list goes on and on.

There is no reason to make comp cape easier to get.
PvM is a huge part of the game, you can't "complete" it having never touched PvM.

And again, you could use this argument for any requirement. "Why isn't the champ challenge on comp cape if livid farm is?". When what you're actually saying is you don't have that requirement, it should be taken off so you can comp.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

06-Mar-2018 20:58:01 - Last edited on 06-Mar-2018 21:00:18 by Nex†is†Life

Nex†is†Life

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Elypia said:
In my opinion: Don't remove reaper, heck add more bosses to it if you want, but make it more accessible for the masses with greater in game infrastructure to help players boss, learn to boss, get teams etc.

There are already some small updates like this (the points for teaching players a new boss, grouping system etc.) but these are heavily not beneficial and underused.

Perhaps there can be a bossing hub in game, relative to the new clue scroll hub to hold more information on the attacks of each boss, weaknesses, max hits etc. teams/clans wanting people to help or learn etc. with better rewards, new content/ titles/ accomplishments etc.

See this is contructive. And refreshing to see someone who doesn't just want to make it easier.

The lack of any kind of functinal ingame grouping/finding system is a big problem and it's up to players to organise everything between each other. Furthermore it's hard for players looking to start group PvM, who don't know other people who do, to find people to go with. I know this from experience.

I really hope to see Jagex do more to tackle this, I did see a mention of a groupfinder system in their survey. But, like the bank rework any update involving that is coming soon (tm) we'll likely be waiting awhile.

In the meantime, if you want help with your reaper title, I am happy to take people who want to learn or just want a kill for comp to Raids. PM me ingame if you're interested. I can help out with other bosses too ;)
I also recommend browsing the Teamwork forums and looking for FCs and people happy to help out (for free).
You'll get it when you deserve it.

06-Mar-2018 21:16:46 - Last edited on 06-Mar-2018 21:17:31 by Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:

Your logic = ironman mode is multiplayer

Quests and lore are a huge part of the game, yet a vast majority of that isn't on comp, pking(was) a huge part of the game vast majority of that isnt on the cape. IT aint a compeltionist cape

Remove it replace it with another req from mqc or a new req entirely wouldn't make it easier it just replaces one arbitrary req with another

You get enough PvM in quests so whats your point? Quests bosses can easily clear the gap of dabble in bossing. So by completing all the quests you do complete the PvM aspect.

So you agree, the reqs are all arbitrary and one doesn't mean anything more than another. So one can be removed and replaced without any harm. Good to know you are now going against yourself.

I said Ironmen have access to group content. Nice conclusion you came to.

So it doesn't literally mean completing everything in the game, comp cape is still a big milestone and desirable reward, there is no reason to take stuff off.
Last time I checked you still had to complete all quests and most miniquests for comp. I'm all for putting more lore requirements on however. Not sure how a putting a pking requirement on comp would work as there isn't really a visible goal in PvP beyond killing the person in front of you, and I feel having to best other players could be unfair on some people.

What exactly would you replace it with. Yet another afk grind requirement? Finding a lore book?
Replacing it would make devalue comp because not all requirements are of equal difficulty.

I think having to have tried all bosses being a "completionist" requirement makes perfect sense. Most quest fights are a joke anyway.

Another false conclusion you twisted my words into. No, I stated you could use that argument for any requirement you don't like can't do. I did not say it was valid.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

07-Mar-2018 01:05:02

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:

You really should stop with the ironman example cause it completely fails you

You still have not given an answer as to why reaper is so much more important to comp cape than all the other possible reqs that could go on it.

Ha good joke, outside of the arc miniquests, there is only 1 miniquest that is required out of ~30 give or take a few. I don't know about you but that isn't most, and the arc is only on there because it came out after comp and they wanted people to spend alot of time there.

There are Pking rewards you can unlock that can't be traded.

Pretty sure it fails you as Ironmen have access to group PvM, thus proving how important it is to the game.

Again, and again, and again, other requirements that could be on comp is not a reason to take any off, it's an argument to put more on.

Only one? The one two you get ghostly robes from? Or Kochei's memories? Mahjarrat memories? Unlocking the Abyss? Stronghold of Security, Stronghold of Player Safety, Boric and Doric, Thalassus, burying Clarence, burying Goblin priests, Haunted Mine, Bork?
Just what I can think of off the top of my head lol, but I'm pretty sure that's more than one. Of course I support putting them all on :)

The Revenant pet from bounty hunter and the deathmatch unlocks? Wouldn't put me off, but I'm not sure it would be fair to everyone, especially forcing people to risk gear for BH.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

07-Mar-2018 17:37:02

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:

Find all dragonkin journals(qbd), Nomad's Mirage, hard as daemons are a few that are equally as challenging if not more challenging(debatable) than group bosses. Again you fail to state how replacing reaper would devalue comp.

that there is a huge chunk of the game you don't even touch on your way to comp cape.

You then have yet to prove that they aren't arbitrary and keep avoiding actually answering that.

Why replace instead of keeping it and adding more. QBD? Very funny.

...and yet again, this is only a reason to add more requirements, not take any off...

Ok, let's say they're arbitrary, why don't we just take off few more "arbitary" requirements and give comp cape to anyone who has completed the tutorial?
You'll get it when you deserve it.

07-Mar-2018 17:44:36

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
Um what? One little aspect of the game and you say Ironman have access to group content when they only have access to 3 group pieces of content out of all Group content in the game? That shows it isn't important to the game where all but 3 group pieces of content can be ignored and still played to the fullest enjoyment.

Why is reaper so important to comp cape

for a few pvp reqs that aren't on comp, but I'm not sure it would be fair to everyone, especially forcing people to group up with others and risk their wealth learning a boss for one kill.

there is a plethora of reasons why it is an arbitrary requirement that can easily be removed and replaced.

Nice way to end with a slippery slope fallacy. Shows that you have no argument to for reaper.
And shows that the group content (group PvM) we do have access to is important.

I did answer: There's no reason to make comp easier to get.

I mentioned BH and DM rewards guess you just can't read.
That's really funny I wondered if you would complain about dying at bosses after I mentioned risking gear in the wilderness. An unsafe death oh wow. Most quest fights have unsafe deaths, getting those dragonkin journals is unsafe, catching implings for Daffyd is unsafe beecause there are aggressive monsters throughout Gielinor. But I'm sure dying normally in RuneScape is exactly the same risk as skulling for BH, and having to bring good gear to fight other high levels.

So what are these "plethora of reasons"? You haven't mentioned them. Nice loaded question you keep pasting.
What exactly makes reaper "arbitrary" but not other requirements?
You'll get it when you deserve it.

08-Mar-2018 02:01:40 - Last edited on 08-Mar-2018 02:02:14 by Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
Replacing it doesn't make it easier. Also you gave no reason to why reaper itself is important to comp so no you didn't answer it.

You mentioned 2 things, mocking that it can't be a req i showed you that there are plenty in the PvP that could go on comp reqs. Guess you just can't make that connection.

All boss fights have unsafe deaths, getting those reaper kills is unsafe

1)It has no real meaning to comp cape
2)It was just added onto the comp without any checklist to see if it should be on comp
3)there is no rhyme or reason to the things that are on comp
4)There are thousands of things not on comp that can go on comp
The list goes on

I have stated that the all reqs are arbitrary

Replacing a requirement that has people crying with one that doesn't sure sounds like making it easier.

Here's what I said. Nex†is†Life said:
The Revenant pet from bounty hunter and the deathmatch unlocks? Wouldn't put me off, but I'm not sure it would be fair to everyone, especially forcing people to risk gear for BH.
Revenant pet is only untradable from BH, and deathmatch unlocks covers that list. But putting them on is not really a good idea.

But being unsafe is a part of the game. Numerous other requirements are unsafe combat but death is cheap. Wildy on the other hand is different, especially BH because emblems worth tens of millions of GP are worth defending with equal value in gear, and any challenger needs to risk too to match their equipment stats.

1 Group PvM is part of the game. Comp cape is for "completing" most content.
2 You don't know that
3 There is some
4 Only a reason to put more reqs on

You have stated. Stating something doesn't make it true. That's your opinion, my opinion is that comp is a useful and prestious reward and people should be made to work for it, not have it handed to them.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

08-Mar-2018 06:05:22 - Last edited on 08-Mar-2018 06:05:58 by Nex†is†Life

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
Just go try and do Hard as daemons or nomad's mirage and you'll know they are equally as challenging or harder than doing a group boss. But if you were a true completionist gamer you would have done that already...

And shows how much you know about wilderness fighting.

So is quests/lore/skilling yet there are many reqs that could be made onto comp that aren't there, so no it is not for completing most content as most content you never touch going for comp.

I know that because there hasn't been a set of guidlines as to what is defined as comp cape req, requirements. Find the list that shows the checks they go through before putting something on comp to prove that wrong.

Prove it, and I guarantee i can debunk that with thousands of other reqs that fit that but aren't on.

based on random choice or personal whim
Nomad's Mirage is easy. I could agree it's on par with one boss, but not all of them.

A lot more than you I promise. But please tell me what you thought was wrong.

There are more things that could be on comp but it's a lot. Since the requirements are certainly greater than "find a lore book" "do x post quest content that takes 5 minutes". MQC has 191 requirements vs untrimmed comp 68, but those 68 are most of the game. Not saying that all those lore requirements shouldn't be on comp.

What seems to be random to you? Look at whats on rather than what isn't. Master all skills, complete all quests, do all tasks, unlock all music (visit every place/activity), unlock all spells, unlock all prayers (except praesul cos 1.5b), unlock all potions, defeat all bosses... hmm... I'm starting to see a pattern... nah must be purely whimsical choices.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

08-Mar-2018 17:52:03

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:

Difficulty cannot be used as an example for group bosses which can be leeched which is easier than Nomad's Mirage.

Just go check OSRS youll see majority of them aren't even using gear equivalent to our game.

68 vs 191, sounds like one cape definitely does more than the other cape whats the difference between doing a 5 min post quest reward vs doing a 10 min single boss leech? Nothing.

Tell me how it isn't random, start listing all the things that aren't comp that are similar to things that are on comp. Also not all abilities unlocked, not all spells are needed to be unlocked not all prayers(you stated it but still).

There is no system that they go off of, they don't go off of reason or a lot more would be on comp cape, it is all random choice and personal whim by the Jmods.
Hmm you're right. Nomad's Mirage should definately be a req.

OSRS LUL
Play REAL GAME. Learn PvP in the REAL GAME. Until then don't talk like you know anything about PvP. Accuracy, armour rating and damage reduction are so important, if someone is risking good a weapon and armour they will drop someone in welfare gear 9 times out of 10, 10 times out of 10 if they are me.

So true skill mastery, master quester and taskmaster are equal to finding the journals from adamant dragons or defeating the pheonix once. Good to know.

I didn't say anything about abilities, but I do think untradable ones should be added. What spells don't you need? Livid, Seren, Bones to Peaches, Tune Bane ore... what else is there

Ok so it's random, there is NO system, reasoning or process.
-Make a Mud pie
-Wave at the top of Lumbrige mill
-Die to Giant Mole
seems right??

No.
-Max out skills, quests, tasks, most unlockables, complete most things that can reasonably be completed
-Move unreasonable shit that takes thousands of hours more to trim
-MQC stuff is discovering backstory rather than role playing story
You'll get it when you deserve it.

08-Mar-2018 20:20:54 - Last edited on 08-Mar-2018 20:21:33 by Nex†is†Life

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
Replace Reaper.

Learn to know what an example is, they have the same bounty hunter style we do, and you don't see them going around in top tier gear unless they are streaming.

The PvP unlockable one, mazcab one.

MQC: quests and lore are the story of this game, one definition of beating a game is beating the story

Why is reaper so important to comp cape that you are so up in arms trying to defend it
Nomad is easier, but even if it were harder than every boss, having another possible requirement isn't a reason to take one off.

Let me know when you log into RS3. If you have an high tier emblem worth 30m of BH points it's absolutely worth risking for, and people do.

What Mazcab spell? Ability to modify teletabs isn't really a spell.

First the definition of "beating a game" can vary greatly game to game. Obviously as an RPG story is a big thing, but not everything. Max stats is another thing.
What I'm saying is that some MQC requirements aren't necessarily a part of the story. Technically, as an RPG. So yes you complete all quests. Reading a book after the quest to learn more isn't essential, unless that book and your character knowing whats in it is part of the story.
You do have to defeat all quest bosses as you fight Nomad/Gielinor in the quest itself.
Reefwalker cape scroll is on because Comp has the same HP and armour as a Superior Reefwalker cape to keep it best in slot.

Already answered this numerous times, you just don't like my answers and repeat the question instead of challenging them.
1 Comp shouldn't be devalued
2 Completing most of the game includes PvM
You'll get it when you deserve it.

08-Mar-2018 22:52:34

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
Leeching one boss is easier.

Let me know when you actually PvP.

"The Mazcab teleport codex is an item that can be used to unlock Mazcab Teleport spell which can be found on the Normal spellbook. It can be bought from the Armoursmith for 2,000 Teci."

Same can be said about majority of bosses.

It is a ports scroll unlock so all other port scrolls should be unlocked as a req to if you want it to not be pick and choose random.

You haven't
Replacing won't devalue, also harmony moss
Again it isn't most of the game and its been proven it isn't most of the game.
Bossing isn't nearly as massive as you make it out to be

What does reaper itself bring to the table that others that aren't on the comp cape would
Doing every boss is not.

I do. On the real game btw.

wtf when was this added to the game

I'm not the one arguing that comp is exclusively for completing the story when it isn't.

It has a good reason to be there, not random at all.

Harmony moss, what??
Replacing with an easier requirement is devaluing.
Saying something is proven does not make it so. But let's say... comp cape is for completing a large amount of core content.
It's the only reason this game isn't dead since only 50 odd people still do PvP.

Clearly, reaper brings a challenge to the table, or people would not be whining for it to be removed.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

09-Mar-2018 01:04:15

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:

Yet you can leech them and you can't leech Nomad so who is the more of a challenge and true show. Its Nomad

Nice show of how comp is most of the game when you don't know a simple teleport in a part of a big expansion of the game.

I'm not either, im simply showing that comp isn't a comp cape so you shouldn't act like it. Reaper has no more place on comp than finding all the lore.

Then why aren't the others that fit that exact reason not on.

Keep proving that point of comp cape isn't completionist.

Oh god leeching is soooooo hard.

Nomad solo content that is challenging no on. Something seems off with that argument. People are complaining that its on comp cape because it is group content.
But you still can't do it somehow

I guarantee that teleport did not come out with Mazcab+Raids, but 1 year+ later. Apparently I unlocked it at some point. But go be a dick about my not knowing one newly added teleport spell there is almost no reason to use.

So what cape is it in your opinion? The solo content only loner cape? And don't give me the pendantic "it's not literally completing everything" line, what is it?

The Reefwalker is there because it's stats are added to comp. What other capes aren't on comp that meet that exact reason other than Spirit Cape?

What exactly are you saying about Harmony Moss? You just said "also Harmony Moss" and that was it...

Too hard for you it seems

You already fight nomad in the quest anyway so it is on comp.
Group content is a part of the game. Get over it.
And some others are complaining because they can't do it.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

09-Mar-2018 03:26:40 - Last edited on 09-Mar-2018 03:28:44 by Nex†is†Life

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
Or the other group same mindset but who let others on for the sole purpose of bragging and saying they aren't elitist because they allowed x person to leech off them.

Post quest fight isn't the in quest fight. Also by that logic that all quests featuring Nomad as a boss past Nomad's requiem shouldn't be a comp req because you already fought nomad once so it is on comp already.
A small part of the game. Get over it.
Just like some people are complaining because they want to feel all high and mighty that they did it?
I like helping others, guess you wouldn't understand since you refuse to team up with anyone.
Nice ad hominem


It's not the quest fight? I thought it was a replay.

But a part of the game nonetheless. How important it is to each person is a matter of opinion.

Oh nice more ad hominem

I don't feel high and mighty because it's not actually hard at all. But why baby people and lower the goalposts? Suck it up, I'm not crying to remove gathering skills, bones to peaches, Arc unlocks and other requirements I find unbearable from comp. The whole point of a goal is that it shouldn't be easy. It's about the journey not the reward. And if it is about the reward, then the harder it is, the better getting it will feel.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

09-Mar-2018 04:10:46 - Last edited on 09-Mar-2018 04:11:00 by Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:

Can't do it more like don't wanna deal with the elitists when trying to find a group

Doesn't excuse not knowing about it if you are going to act like comp cape is a completionist cape. Not being a dick just pointing out flaws in your arguments.

It can't be considered a completionist cape, its more of a rag tag cape in the current state.

The states came after the unlock the reefwalker is not a req for because of the stats it is an unlock because it is part of ports, so are the other scrolls and therefore if there was reason to it the other scrolls would be on.

Requirement that shortened from 200(i think that was the number) down to 50. Why? Because the community thought that 200 was to much just like the community thinks group bosses are to much for the comp cape.
So 100% of the PvM commuinity are elitists. Got it. Me? Whiners annoy me. I don't find fault with someone being new to PvM, not knowing anything or not having gear. But if they don't learn, if they refuse to learn... I don't want to or have to help anymore and I will call them bad at the game.

But you are being a dick, and no, not knowing about a newly added and unimportant unlock doesn't hurt my argument. And no I didn't say comp cape meant literal total completion.

Removing requirements makes it more "rag tag".

Sup Reefwalker has the best in slot HP and armour boost. Comp shares these exact stats. Anyone with a brain can put 2 and 2 together and realise it's not randomly chosen from ports.

Reducing a time gated requirement is not the same as a removing a requirement. You've proven you can harvest Harmony Moss (its very hard) so harvesting 150 more is somewhat needless. Now if 200 kills in each boss were the requirement, I would support reducing that.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

09-Mar-2018 04:28:37 - Last edited on 09-Mar-2018 04:31:58 by Nex†is†Life

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
But why actually do what the people and remove the thing the community doesn't want on comp(group bosses)? Suck it up, I'm not crying to remove gathering skills, bones to peaches, Arc unlocks and other requirements that aren't forcing groups. The whole point of comp cape is that it should have reasonable requirements. It's about the journey not the reward. And if it is about the reward, then the more reasonable it is, the better getting it will feel.

In your own words reaper isn't a hard requirement for comp cape.
I guess you speak for "the community". The same community that kills tens of thousands of group bosses every day.

No, I'm pretty sure the harder it is, the better getting it will feel.

It's not hard. But it has people crying it's too hard. So it should be on there.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

09-Mar-2018 04:38:28

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
It aint an ad hominem never directed it at you

No, it is not the quest fight, it is a hard version of the quest fight no checkpoint, no interludes. From the wiki "The Memory of Nomad is essentially a Hard mode version of the fight in Nomad's Elegy. Most of the mechanics are the same as in the normal fight and there are a few additional mechanics, especially in the final phase."

Reaper has no more right to be on comp than all the left out reqs. Group content doesn't have the right to block solo content. You keep crying that its group content its a group game. If its a group game why are minigames dead, why is solo content thriving, why are group bosses hated by many?

We both know thats not true.

Hmm I see.

But reaper isn't "blocking" any requirements at all. It is not in any way stopping other things being put on. There is no "group content blocking solo content".
The reason most minigames are dead is because the rewards aren't worth getting.
It's a game with solo and group content. I didn't say exclusively a group game.
Group bosses are hated by many people who are bad because they can't do them.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

09-Mar-2018 04:43:49

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
But if they don't let others learn, if they refuse to let them on the team because they don't have bis... I don't want to or have to deal with them anymore and I will cry and cry and cry

I didn't call you anything, I didn't direct anything at you, it isn't my fault if you feel you fall into that category.

Yet someone who has a comp cape should have knowledge of the game and its updates.

It isn't rag tag as it is with the thrown together requirements with the requirements that make no sense to have left off when there are things on it similar in nature? This is their chance to revamp comp remove the group content off comp cape, add in requirements that make sense, and actually make it a uniform requirement cape.
Lucky for you only a minority of PvMers are like this because the rest of us remember we were all learners once.

You don't have to call someone things to be a dick. "Not knowing about a simple teleport" "Doesn't excuse not knowing about it". The funny part being I did know about it because I had it unlocked but obviously forgot about one minor spell I've never used.

No, nobody has to know about every patch and update ever that doesn't effect their gameplay. I don't need to know about that novice quest I did 10 years ago, I just need to have done it.

It's not being revamped. Just one thing possibly removed, nothing to replace it, nothing new, and nothing uniform. I would actually like more... complete... comp cape.
But there would be no reason to exclude group content. "Solo content doesn't have the right to block group content", nothing should be blocking other content.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

09-Mar-2018 04:53:33

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Kcin said:

Please show me where I stated you, or your name.

The group bosses are because finding a group.. (already been over that point)

Comp cape is solo content(only one person can use it) and group bosses are blocking that.

Actually its because the community is moving away from group content slowly. They made thaler to improve minigame rewards and still they are in the same condition because the community is moving away from group content. Its jagex that is wanting the group bosses mostly.
It was implied and we both know that.

How exactly does finding a group to do reaper stop other requirements being on comp? How doesn't that "block" anything?

Now this we've been over. "Only one person can use it" So is trim solo content? What about my Achto? Only I can use it. But your standards that's solo content? If that's the definition of solo content what is the definition of group content?

Yeah, most minigames are dead content. Group PvM on the other hand is thriving.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

09-Mar-2018 04:59:15

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:

Yeah they say that about the dung community, and yet there was a reason why I soloed 200m.

Because comp cape has no format to its reqs, if it did that teleport would have been a req and therefore you would have known, so yes you should have if you want to go for a comp cape, just like how you say you should be forced into group bosses. Or are you going to continue what you keep saying you hate about it?

Never said it was, saying it was a good chance for them to. A start is to remove reaper from comp.
Maybe it's you who has a problem getting on with people. I had no idea how to DG fast but people were helpful to me. If I were 119 DG and joined a team of randoms I wouldn't be surprised if they expected me to know what I was doing, however.

Sure the teleport should be a req.

Mmmm yes remove reaper and replace it with all PvM feats.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

09-Mar-2018 05:05:16

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
How you take it i cannot control

Person wants comp -> they get all the requirements besides reaper -> they can't find a team cause they refuse to talk to people or find learner teams -> can't get comp.

Yes, but the difference is trim is more of a true comp cape, and trim is what the completionist cape should be. Comp cape now should be renamed to its original concept name Uber cape because thats what it is.

Again, it was designed from the start to be a reward from the group activity raids. Comp cape was not intended to be from group content at the beginning, hence why no group bosses were a comp req at its creation.

For a small group of the community.

Speaking of ad hominems

lol

No, what I meant was, how does having reaper block other requirements being on there?

But other people can't wear your trimmed comp cape. So how does that work as a standard?

Now there, that's a better argument than "other people can't wear yours". Group bosses are on there now, so... cry.

Large group.

I was being serious. If you can't find anyone, anywhere to do group content with, maybe the problem isn't everyone else?
You'll get it when you deserve it.

09-Mar-2018 05:24:39

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:

Kcin said:

Person wants comp -> they get all the requirements besides reaper -> they can't find a team cause they refuse to talk to people or find learner teams -> can't get comp.


Because Trim cape actually holds reqs from nearly all realms of the game. Comp cape like you said only has a mere 68 reqs, which is nowhere near what trim has and how diverse trim is compared to comp. So thats how it works as a standard. Sure trim still is arbitarily reqed right now but its way closer than comp cape is.

If many people can't find anywhere to do a group content with, maybe the problem isn't the person themselves?

hmmmm

But other people can't wear your trim cape.
Also the number of requirements isn't as important as they aren't all equal. One of those 68 is complete all 200+ quests. Another is get a minimum of 375m exp.

If many people can't find others to do group content with maybe they should team up with each other... oh wait... they do... the sensibles ones at least. If you're claiming that it is impossible to find PvM teams then it's because you're not looking.
Then you go and say how everyone is an elitist who doesn't let you on their team if you don't have BIS, which is simply not true, even if it were whats stopping you making a team with other people who don't?
You'll get it when you deserve it.

09-Mar-2018 06:20:57

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Kcin said:

Jagex shouldn't force it in first place, problem solved. Its been shown before their grouping systems suck and people are calling for future bosses to be gwd1 style soloable but can go in groups. Key part make them soloable. I wonder why...

Oh yeah I look, and great majority don't even consider you if you dont have bis the others make you pay.

Again I ask what does reaper itself bring to the table that makes it so worth for you to cry over it being removed because it doesn't fit.
GWD2 released four such bosses, that's more than the two solo and one group boss we've had in the last couple of years. We hardly need more like that right now. If a boss is soloable but you can go in a group it makes it a joke as you can mass it with like 4 people no effort. That;s the kind of content for people for only like to AFK and don't want anything more complex than clicking a tree to woodcut.

I don't have BIS. Yet I find teams... hmmm...
A great majority of people don't have best in slot, there is nothing stopping you going with them? Unless you're expecting to go do high level PvM with T70s???
There are many people willing to take people to learn, people who don't have the best gear so you're not looking.

It makes people try PvM, some will get their comp kills and never return, others will enjoy it and the PvM community will grow.
According to you, none of the requirements fit and they are all arbitrary. If none of them fit, why does one more matter?
You'll get it when you deserve it.

09-Mar-2018 17:40:09 - Last edited on 09-Mar-2018 17:40:30 by Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
And there is a reason why people keep wanting bosses like that. There is a reason why Solak has created a controversy about it being made.

Let me guess you also were able to start killing day 1 or very close to release.

People can try PvM without having to be forced in a group. The solo bosses do that perfectly.

Again you can't give a reason why reaper itself is so important to comp that it can't be replaced.
Well as gamestyle is a matter of personal preference there should be bosses for all team sizes, including solo only and including team raids. Solo (only) or Duo bosses were options on the survey so one of those is potentially next after Solak and I am looking forward to either.

For some bosses I was either not playing at the time or busy being a noob. But the ones I was there for, AoD and Raids, I spent a long time fighting them, I died a lot, I learned mechanics firsthand without any of the information that is available now, I teamed up with people I didn't know and eventually mastered them.
But I do know what it's like to try and start a boss with no experience years after release, and how some teams will teach you, others just want to get their fast kills without mistakes someone new might make and that's why I am happy to help others.

But not every boss. People make comfort zones of what they have done before, some are daunted by the prospect of finding teams. Instead some people will try something they haven't done before and regret not doing it sooner.

Because it stops you getting comp.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

09-Mar-2018 20:18:25 - Last edited on 09-Mar-2018 20:18:57 by Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
Yet they have that capability with several bosses scaling to the size of group in, no reason they cant make it soloable instead of forcing groups and then scale to group sizes. Point being group forced bosses are unnecessary.
Why are you even playing an MMO if you hate any kind of grouping/teaming?
You'll get it when you deserve it.

09-Mar-2018 21:29:19

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Kcin said:

1) who says i hate it
2) just because its an mmo, doean't mean its only multiplayer
3)talking is multiplayer, trading etc
4)why do you keep avoiding answering the question?

Why don't you do it then?
Listen you dense cro-magnon. At not point did I say this was a multiplayer only game. I asked why you play a multiplayer game but never do any kind of activities with other people.

Why do you keep repeating it after I've given you 10 answers you ignored. Just because you choose to limit yourself to never paying with other people is no reason to change anything about the game.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

10-Mar-2018 00:56:51

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
2715 levels out of 2715 levels vs 218 quests out of 218 quests in the game vs not every boss once
If you're using true trim standards like 5.2b then it's 0 out of any of the drop collections, pets or untradables you can get from bosses. Anyway, how exactly is comp pvm heavy? There is one requirement, to kill 26 bosses once, most of them take under a minute.

Not gonna answer your pasted question for the 10th time. What do you think would be more suitable than reaper to cover PvM on comp cape?
You'll get it when you deserve it.

13-Mar-2018 16:04:57

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Kcin said:
Funny how you try and change my words. Least make them correct: 2736 levels out of 3270 levels vs 264 quests+miniquests out of 410+ lore pieces in the game vs having to beat every single boss in the game. There is still one that is out of balance compared to the others.

I've answered that question before, Nomad's Mirage is one example that can easily replace reaper. Morvran's challenge already covers a lot of the reaper reqs(while making them harder).
Hmmm I forgot slayer was a skill. Or tried to.
Virtual levels are, I'm not sure how to break this to you... virtual. The max level is 99 for most skills. Also reaper is only 26 out of over 40 bosses.
But you're right. Having to do most bosses once is out of balance with the rest, there should obviously be a larger PvM requirement/s.

No, sorry, having a taste of every boss is a more fitting "completionist" requirement than a repeat of a quest fight and leaving all those stones unturned. Morvran's challenge is only 10 bosses, so worse than reaper, but I guess you'd want Morvran's over reaper as it excludes bosses that are too hard for you because they can't be afk revo'd.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

13-Mar-2018 17:44:19

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Kcin said:

Glad to know a bossing elitist can't even remember the main PvM skill. Keep up the work.

And with this I know 100% you haven't ever touched Nomad's mirage.

having a taste of every boss is a more fitting "completionist"

You still haven't given a reason why reaper is special that can't be fit to another req.
Main PvM skill? lol no. Slayer was intended as a less grindy training method for training combat skills up than camping in one place. The idea of 120 slayer was fundamentally flawed because you would go way beyond max combat training slayer to 120 and would no longer have any reason to hunt low level mobs. All because Jagex think Slayer is the everyone's favourite skill because of a poll where it got I think it was 15-20% of votes out of the 27 skills. Slayer isn't the favourite skill of most people but it scored a few % higher than other skills = everyone must love slayer, 120 slayer is a great idea. Jagex logic.
And so yes I try to forget I have to do even more of that "skill" when my combat stats are ready to do endgame PvM = bossing.

https://gyazo.com/07baeb085a6f49ea1df87cc4d6fa4759
hmmm where did these come from

By this logic you should only need one Grandmaster quest. You've had a taste of Grandmaster quests, right?

See I think, oh, reaper isn't all that, then I think would else would be better for comp than trying every boss? Certainly not Nomad's Mirage lol.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

14-Mar-2018 01:16:03 - Last edited on 14-Mar-2018 01:18:19 by Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:

PvM: Player vs MONSTER what do you do in slayer? Kill MONSTERS. It is a skill all about PvM.

You aint making yourself look better, because now you are just showing you don't know the mechanics of the fight.

I'm not the one using the argument of "having a taste". So your point is moot and has not value to the debate because you are just making fun of your own arguments.

Contradicting yourself much?

Still no reason why reaper is so special when Morvran's already has you going to the bosses getting your argument's taste of bossing.
Did I say Slayer wasn't PvM or did I say it wasn't Kcin said:
the
MAIN
PvM skill

(hey look I can put all red caps too).

No I don't because I did it once when it came out, I think 2 odd years ago, as Memory of Nomad was dead content on release but keep acting like it's relevant. Anyway proves you wrong Kcin said:
And with this I know 100% you haven't ever touched Nomad's mirage.


Neither am I because that's not what I said, I said you should have a "taste" of every boss, as they are repeatable, killing them once is a minimalistic and not unfair requirement. You somehow decided this meant only a taste of PvM in general.

A part of it is that Legionaires, Dagannoth Kings and the Kalphite Queens are tracked together, another is that some bosses that aren't conventional are excluded, such as Penance King. Not saying it should be on reaper as BA isn't PvM. Not saying it shouldn't be on comp.
It seems disclaimers are necessary to stop you blithering to the wrong conclusion.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

14-Mar-2018 15:15:00 - Last edited on 14-Mar-2018 15:15:24 by Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:

What other skill can you train only by killing monsters? Combat skills there are methods that invovle no monsters at all. Hence slayer is the Main PvM skill. Besides the point anyway.

Yet it doesn't because you know nothing about Nomad's mirage as it has different mechanics than in the quest.

Something is still off. So does reaper give a taste of every boss or does it not? Make up your mind.

So whats wrong with unconventional forced group bosses being excluded too? Penance king already is. Soul Reaper already does it too.

Still no reason why reaper is so special that it can't be replaced.
Yes... It is PvM... but not "the main PvM skill", it's auxiliary. And you can get 99 Slayer without ever attacking an NPC, just ask skilling pures.

I don't need to. I know I beat it.

Out of any potential PvM requirement, reaper is the broadest.

What is unconventional about group bosses?

Ok, replaced with what? Nomad and Morvran's are insufficent because they cover less of the game.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

15-Mar-2018 03:39:24

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Kcin said:
Using reward xp isn't training a skill and doesn't count for training a skill. You are just getting xp in that case.

When talking about a certain subject you do need to know what you are talking about.

Morvran is still broad, reaper doesn't hold all the bosses(or it does I still cant get a clear answer out of you) so leaving off 4 more bosses won't do anything to harm it.

Compared to the majority of the bosses(which you can solo) they are unconventional. Generally done is soloable bosses, group bosses dont conform to that so are unconventional
So no different than every combat skill except Magic. Regardless of alternate training methods, you're saying Slayer is "the main PvM skill" of the game which isn't true, it's a support skill.

So why are you talking about group bosses?
No I don't remember the mechanics of a (dead content) fight I did once over 2 years ago.

Actually it's 4 solo only, 8 soloable/group bosses and 6 group bosses less than reaper.

Group bossing and raids are unconventional in an MMORPG? rofl
"There are more soloable bosses than group bosses" does not set a convention. I guess solo only is unconventional because there are more group than solo only bosses?
You'll get it when you deserve it.

15-Mar-2018 15:03:51

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Kcin said:
There are ways to gain combat xp in range, melee, and magic skills without fighting.

How can you debate if you don't know what the other person is even talking about?

therefore Morvran's gives a taste of every boss

not based on or conforming to what is generally done
Sure, but that doesn't change slayer being a support skill.

And I'm talking about Nomad as a comp req, so whats the difference? Except that I can actually do Nomad, you can't do group bosses.

What.
So there are 5 Legionaires, 2 DKs, 1 KQ you don't have to kill for reaper because they are tracked together. Not really a big deal since they are copy pasted.

Some major flaws in your "solo pvm is convention" argument, one is that soloable bosses are often killed in groups, the much bigger one is that all bosses prior to the first group only bosses were released into a completely different combat system - pre-EoC. In RS3 we have had a balanced mix of solo only, soloable and group bosses.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

16-Mar-2018 07:03:57

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Kcin said:
Again never said it wasn't, what i said is that it is the main skill for PvM without alternative training methods. Again its besides the point.

So there are 5 GWD generals, 5GWD2 Generals, 2Black dragon bosses, you have to kill for reaper. Not really a big difference between them since they are copy pasted.

Doesn't change the fact they are soloable.

They were still able to be entered solo, you can't do that with the group bosses now. So difference it, they are still soloable.
So Group bosses still stand unconventional.

Wow, some more ad hominem because you didn't know the meaning of the word yourself. I stated the definition for you since you clearly did not know it:
But it's not the main skill for PvM, >90% of PvM isn't has nothing to do with Slayer.

What are you talking about? Legionaires are actually copy pasted and thats why they are tracked together. 2 black dragon bosses that are completely different? lol

Sure, but group bossing has been a thing ever since the first bosses came out.

You can enter group bosses solo, you're just not gonna succeed.
Back on the point, your "convention" of any number of players being able to defeat a boss is pre-EoC and therefore moot. This is what we've had since EoC:
Group, solo/duo, group, group, solo only, 4 x soloable/group, solo only, group, solo only. Another group incoming.
Wow! Looks like group (only) bosses are a part of the game now.

Obviously I do know the meaning of the word, the last few posts haven't been because of misunderstanding, but because we disagree on whether it applies.
That's not ad hominem because I challenged your points, I didn't base my argument on an attack. I even made addressing you being condescending into a seperate post.

Feel free to look up the definition of ad hominem and paste it here too.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

16-Mar-2018 14:40:44

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Kcin said:
So they all require the same key? They all have the same exact mechanics? They are all the exact same from pixel to pixel?

Group bossing =/= group bosses. One has the option to be soloed, the other does not.

I can't enter rago with one person, I cant enter raids with one person.

Still unconventional compared to all the bosses that can be soloed and the pattern before they were released. Do i need to get that dictionary for you again?

I gave you the definition, it fits the definition. It applies you cant argue that if you know the definition.
Oh boy, that recoloured keystone?
Did I say they were the same boss or did I say they were copy-pasted? As in, they share core mechanics, all their values and most ascepts of their design.
I was the one who said all 6 should be required for reaper but that I understand why they aren't.

Yet group bossing is the reason group bosses exist.

Wrong and wrong. Kcin said:
When talking about a certain subject you do need to know what you are talking about.


The pattern before they were released... Which was pre-EoC. As far as PvM goes, a completely different game. Any existing convention before that is null and void.

It doesn't fit the definition if your convention is false. So I can argue that.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

16-Mar-2018 16:18:26 - Last edited on 16-Mar-2018 16:23:42 by Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
Yep those highlighed parts are def not an attack on a person, they are tote mcgotes about a point in an argument. Maybe you should look it up?


ad hominem
[ad hom-uh-nuh m -nem, ahd&#8208;]
adjective
is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.

You're right, my attack was "def not an attack on a person, they are tote mcgotes about a point in an argument". Therefore it does not fit the definition. Ad hominem isn't just a personal attack, it's responding to an argument with a personal attack.

Too bad you didn't look it up.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

16-Mar-2018 16:19:35 - Last edited on 16-Mar-2018 16:20:10 by Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
Saying copy-pasted means they are the same, and the mechanics are actually different from boss to boss fyi.

So you admit group bosses =/= group bossing. Good to get that out of the way

Yeah thats not how it works. They had the ability to make them blocked off from solo attempts, but they didn't. That isn't a different game.

Yet it isn't. it fits the definition word by word.

Ahh so they have figured out(again) group limited bosses = a bad idea because people want to solo them huh...
A large amount of them was copy pasted I didn't say they were exactly the same, but near enough. "The mechanics"? That's plural. One mechanic is different for each Legio.
I guarantee I have done more Legionaires than you, I know what I'm talking about.

Yep never denied that. Just waiting for you to admit that both are a part of the game.

Nothing is blocked off from solo attempts. There are just mechanics that require multiple people now.

Nope, because no convention prior to EoC can be applied.

The cap on the Rago starting damage was lowered to allow duo/trios.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

16-Mar-2018 17:46:12

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
Nex†is†Life said:

is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby an argument is rebutted by attacking the character

Wrong, it is a personal attack in place of actually looking at the argument. To bad you can't understand the definition.
Yes, you're right again! That's exactly what it means. I knew you'd get it if I spelled it out.

Now, go back to the last page where I called you out on condescendingly pasting dictionary definitions. Look right above that post and you'll see me responding to all your points with reasoned argument. I'm sure you saw it since you replied to it.
So you see, any kind of personal attack I posted was not "in place of actually looking at the argument.".
You'll get it when you deserve it.

16-Mar-2018 17:57:47

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Kcin said:
Saying copy paste is synonymous to saying exactly the same.

One has existed for 16 years, while the other has only for 5 years. The 16 year old one is the conventional one that most bosses are based on(can be done solo, or in groups)

Nex†is†Life said:

Nothing is blocked off from solo attempts. There are just mechanics that require multiple people now.

I'll just let this be, and maybe if you stare at it long enough you'll figure out what you said is wrong.

EoC only affected combat, how to enter a boss is not combat. it can be applied.

I wonder why they are changing all these group required things. Maybe its like they failed at what the community wanted. Hmmmmmm
No it isn't. Copying, pasting and changing one thing is still copy-pasting.

The 16 year old one doesn't exist now because this game isn't the same as it was 16 years ago.

KK and Rots have both been solo'd (by me btw). So there is reason for them to be open to solo attempts.

Actually fighting the boss is combat :)

Nothing was changed from being group required, none of the mechanics were changed. What the community actually wanted was Rago duo/trios since they became viable the entry hit became a pointless lockout.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

16-Mar-2018 18:28:46

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Kcin said:
Makes it not copy pasted and makes it a new thing. I could copy paste a whole book and change 1 chapter, doesn't make it the same book.

Man someone should go tell the KBD that is in game currently that he shouldn't exist anymore according to you.

Yeah so you admit entering the boss is not combat. Good to know you are contradicting yourself again. The fact that they have to change how a boss is entered shows that group bossing is not as popular as you think and solo bossing is much more.

Changing the amount of damage someone takes is changing how being forced into a group to split the damage is changing how it is required.

But again none of this still changes the fact that if you remove reaper from comp you still get a taste of bossing.
Ok go publish that book.

How to you manage to take 2 and 2 and get 7 time and time again. A convention based on out of date source material does not exist. Why? Because it's a concept and concepts can cease to exist, but your malfunctioning brain somehow decides to take what I said out of context and apply it to something tangible.

Ok quote where I said entering bosses is combat. I'll be waiting.
But Rago is still a group boss, so how does this prove anything to do with solo bossing. The difference being that it's killed (mostly) in duos and trios instead of teams of 5+ now. This is because these small teams were not previously viable regardless of entry hit, you recieve the same number of drops amoung less people and a majority of the boss is timelocked. Thus smaller team sizes are more profitable and better pet chance.
And, whilst I do believe solo bossing is more popular, group bossing is also popular and a huge part of PvM.

By your logic you should only need one 99 because you have had a taste of skilling.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

16-Mar-2018 20:05:04

Nex†is†Life

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:

You do realize what you just said just makes you agree with my point right?

Oh, so GWD2 bosses are out of date as well? They follow the same exact boss format as KBD

By even brining of Evolution of COMBAT in an argument about how you enter a boss room

The community clearly doesn't like group bosses as much as people think the fact that they have to make them now so that people are able to solo them(removing the group minimum) shows that.

You are the one saying that reaper gives you a taste of all bosses So if 26 bosses gives the taste of bossing, 10 bosses (with increasing handicaps) should also give the taste of bossing.

But again none of this still changes the fact that if you remove reaper from comp you still have to do some bossing.
No it doesn't. Please stop being autistic, 90% of legios are copy pasted from each other but of course you have to be pendantic and say oh there a minor difference - I KNOW.

Yes. That's 4 EoC bosses out of 14 (counting Legionaires as one). Very conventional.

So you're saying entering the boss room shoudn't be any different to how it was 10+ years ago because technically going through a door isn't combat?

Tonnes of people do like group bossing but keep pretending to talk for "the community" you don't know jack about.
They haven't changed any group boss to make it soloable. A few people had already done solo ROTS so Jagex removed the pointless entry requirement. Also, people only did that to prove they could not because they couldn't bear to team up.
KK was updated repeatedly to make it not soloable. Still is, but not the point.

I'm saying comp should require all bosses. If anything, I'm saying reaper is insufficient but better than nothing. So add stuff like Memory of Nomad too.
KBD with a minor handicap = PvM completed? lol

Not enough. All bosses. Just like you max all skills... and do all quests... deja vu....
You'll get it when you deserve it.

16-Mar-2018 23:13:54

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
did you already forget you said? Combat doesn't have anything to do with entering a boss's room.

Players want things to be able to be soloed(or the option being there) look at soul reaper, look at rago's change. So the community is saying it.
Rago changed from having to tank 50k damage(impossible) to 12.5k damage(possible)

Removal of reaper wouldn't have an affect on that at all since not all bosses are on the comp anyway, so removing reaper's extras don't do anything that isn't already done to the cape. Besides weren't you just complaining that there are bosses that are "copy-paste".

But I say it again and I will continue because you can't even come up with a reason because none of this changes the fact that if you remove reaper from comp you still have to do some bossing.
"Combat doesn't have anything to do with entering a boss" OK.

LOL Vorago is still impossible to solo, the change was made to allow duo/trio teams. Kcin said:
When talking about a certain subject you do need to know what you are talking about.


It wasn't complaining that Legios were pasted, I said I understand why all 6 aren't required (they are tracked together) and that it doesn't really matter anyway.
Removal of reaper wouldn't have an affect on amount of bosses required? lol ok. Nex†is†Life said:
If anything, I'm saying reaper is insufficient but better than nothing.


But doing "some bossing" isn't be the requirement.
Or by this reasoning you should only need 50 in all stats because you still have to do "some skilling"
You'll get it when you deserve it.

17-Mar-2018 09:03:47 - Last edited on 17-Mar-2018 09:05:14 by Nex†is†Life

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
Also the fact that it is now possible to try to solo shows that people wanted the attempt. If it was only for duo min they would have made the lp damage differently.

So the "removal" of 5 bosses doesn't matter? But the removal of ~4 does? Logic.

I said it wouldn't affect the bossing req.(to make simpler for you:It still has bossing) Morvran's challenge is still there. FYI that has bosses with handicaps.

I would say 26/40+ is only some. 10/40+(with handicaps) is no different than 26 in terms of a req like this.

And besides if you are talking about max stuff, you do only do some skilling, you dont require "120" in every skill, and you aren't required for 5.2b xp.
Again proving you have no clue what you are talking about. People tried to solo already by using other players to split the entry hit then lobbying. Phase 1 is impossible solo.
How would they have "made the lp damage differently"? Capping it was logical.
Vorago isn't intended to be a solo boss, never was.

It's not about numbers. It's that they are essentially the same boss.
And as I have said three times, I think all Legios should be on there, but they aren't because they are tracked together. And they don't matter much.
Since you don't know what you are talking about, there are actually 6 group bosses.

Ok let's take off 100 quests. It still has questing, right?

It seems to me that 26>10. Handicaps? Don't make me laugh, theey are a joke especially at such low bosses as KBD/GWD1. And if you say Rax, you can kill it first without any handicap.
What about Telos? Magister? GWD2? Regardless of group bosses (which should be required) all soloable bosses should be.

No you aren't because I didn't say some bossing, I said all bosses. Again and again you run to "not literally everything is on comp".
Your 5.2b 5.4b exp example is getting a counter to max for true trim's sake. That's the equivalent to saying get max prestige in a boss killcount.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

17-Mar-2018 14:13:11

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
It has been made to the possibility of being soloed. The group minimum req being removed. So please keep telling me how I don't know what i'm talking about.

Then the same can be said about all the GWD1 bosses. And with that logic QBD is the same as telos because they have phases and are solo only bosses. Also do you not know what the ~ means? it means for your education approximately meaning more or less.

Why take off even more lore there is already 200+ lore pieces of content not on the cape. (and 200 is a lot more off than a mere 20ish)

But if 26 is a taste of all bosses, why isn't 10. By your logic if 26 bosses is a taste 10 is too.
Yeah you called doing reaper(26 bosses) a taste of all bosses.

BTW are you so low that you just had to do a whole separate post for flame?
You don't know what you're talking about. It is impossible to solo.

Do you not know what essentially means? Legios have shared values, mechanics and graphics bar one minor graphical change and one unique mechanic each. They are the same boss in essence. But of course you put up a strawman of QBD and Telos being the same boss because you don't have an argument.
Yes, ~4 means "approximately 4 with some uncertainty". I cleared up any uncertainty you might have had.

You're right! Why take off even more requirements?

I didn't say reaper was all bosses. I said all bosses should be the requirement. Maybe you should learn to read for your education.

Character limit, also wasn't on topic.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

17-Mar-2018 15:54:35

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:

Really cause you are the one who is confused. I am talking about how it is no longer required to be in a group to join(you can go in solo) I wonder why that was changed, maybe because people dont like group bosses as much as you say. It might be impossible to solo with what we have on this date

GWD 1 generals have shared mechanics and one unique mechanic each. Same boss, different skins in your book.

unconventional, community asks for it, it doesnt make sense in the first place all things we've talked about and you haven't been able to rebute without an ad hominem.

Nex†is†Life said:
Morvran's challenge is only 10 bosses, so worse than reaper.

Context is pretty clear. You are clearly talking about reaper, you state reaper gives a taste of every boss.

Yeah it wasn't on topic, it was flame. AKA didnt need to be posted at all.
Hmm if only you knew what you were talking about. It's not a matter of the player's power, phase 1 requires 2 people to lure the boss. If Jagex wanted Rago to be soloable they would change that. GL with that solo P5 too, it is theoretically possible however.
KK is soloable, so what do you say about leaving it and ROTS on reaper if other group bosses were taken off?
Not that Jagex changed KK to be soloable, they actually changed it to be it harder to solo. Twice.

Entirely different values (HP, armour, affinities, styles, max hits) and character models (not reskinned rofl), unique mechanics, no shared mechanics... hmm...

Not unconventional as I have already stated and since you didn't respond I assume you yield the point, I have rebutted everything you said with reason, flaming you a couple of times doesn't change that, as for "the community" asking for it please provide proof a majority of people want this.

"so worse than reaper"
Yeah, no.

Don't flame me then cry when I flame you back
You'll get it when you deserve it.

18-Mar-2018 12:19:01

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:

People also thought KK(green attack) required 2 people.

Yet if GWD 1 bosses aren't the same, then legions aren't the same. There is as many differences between legions and between gwd1.

Yet you haven't actually made any points to state how they aren't unconventional besides trying to bring EoC into this which EoC can't make any point on.

Exactly
It did, the trick was to skip it by forcing a phase change. There are a couple of ways to block it solo now.
But you can't skip luring Vorago, and it is impossible to do alone because it isn't simply blocking a big melee hit.

I just listed a number of things Legios have in common that GWD1 bosses don't: Values, mechanics, models... What DO they have in common? They auto attack you? That's literally it. They all auto attack you. Just like everything else in the game.
Besides I did actually say I thought all Legios should be required - but that it's not a big deal.

Actually it can. The standards of any number of players being able to do a boss were pre-EoC standards. Now we have some group only, some solo only.
Your argument of "entering a boss isn't combat" is completely ridiculous. Entering the a combat encounter has everything to do with combat. Besides, you can enter all group bosses alone just like GWD1. So it isn't about entering the boss room anyway, it's about fighting the boss.
The biggest problem of any team size bosses is that they are very easy. If you go in a group there is 0 challenge. So there is no point PvMing with your friends, which many of us enjoy. Not that you would understand.


Nice out of context. Let's finish... Nex†is†Life said:
having a taste of every boss is a more fitting requirement
I didn't say reaper met this. So, for the third time: Nex†is†Life said:
I'm saying comp should require all bosses ... reaper is insufficient but better than nothing.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

18-Mar-2018 15:33:01 - Last edited on 18-Mar-2018 15:34:35 by Nex†is†Life

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
Nex†is†Life said:

Nice out of context. Let's finish... Nex†is†Life said:

No, sorry,
having a taste of every boss is a more fitting "completionist"
requirement than a repeat of a quest fight and leaving all those stones unturned. Morvran's challenge is only 10 bosses, so worse than
reaper
.
I didn't say reaper met this.

You sure? Re-read that highlighted part. This is your full context.

But again none of this still changes the fact that if you remove reaper from comp you still get a taste of bossing.
Your reading comprehension is absolutely terrible. I suggest you reread the bits you highlighted and use both your brain cells to think about it really hard. I didn't say reaper was that requirement. I said it was worse than Morvran's challenge. Worse than. Meaning reaper didn't fit the requirement of killing every boss.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

18-Mar-2018 18:35:37 - Last edited on 18-Mar-2018 18:36:37 by Nex†is†Life

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
Wow, where did you get a crystal ball to where you can see the future

They share common drops(gs blades, hilt, armour just in different skins in your terms), they all have just one special style move. In your book that is enough to count as copy paste.

Combat has nothing to do with how you enter a boss. EG. Evolution of
COMBAT
has nothing to do with how you enter a boss. Simple as 1+1=2

But again none of this still changes the fact that if you remove reaper from comp you still get a taste of bossing.
Vorago will never be a solo boss.

No... no it isn't. And they don't all have one "special style move" (I assume you mean mechanic?). Kril has prayer smash, Kree has pushback, the other two have none.
More importantly, they don't share any. Just like their stats, character models, and 95% about them aren't shared. Unlike Legionaires. I didn't say anything about drops, but now you mention it Legionaires do have exactly the same drop table with a different number behind their Signet.
Here is Legio Primus' droptable
https://gyazo.com/4460bf1be392242f8a55d58efeda257f
Here are the other five:
(Same as above)
That is copy-pasting. 90%+ collation.
Your "GWD1 bosses are the same boss" is a strawman I don't know why I even wrote all that.

Could you be more pendantic? Entering a boss room isn't technically combat? But it has everything to do with combat because you're walking into a boss room. Which contains a boss. That you fight. As in combat.
Your point is moot anyway as you can enter any boss with as many players as you like (under maximum group limit). You can enter them all solo.

Not a taste of every boss, which is what I said should be the requirement. You even quoted me saying that right below. Well done.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

18-Mar-2018 19:08:15

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
Reaper isn't a big deal

Prime†Axiom said:

You were cherry picking out of context.

Not cherry picking, still rambling.

1)How many bosses are in the game
2)How many slayer creatures are there in the game
3)How many creatures are in the game that aren't in the other 2.
If and only if 1 is bigger than 2 and 3 is it the majority.
Because it answers 2 of the top questions. 151 monsters in the codex, ~40 bosses.
Tell me how is 151 smaller than 40?
Then why are you so desperate to get it off if it isn't a big deal?

You love cherry picking out of context.

It's not a matter of numbers. One boss>100 different slayer monsters.
Bossing is endgame combat, along with PvP. Slayer isn't endgame.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

18-Mar-2018 19:12:18

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
Nex†is†Life said:
Your reading comprehension is absolutely terrible.

Ahh more attempts at the flaming ad hominem you are coming to be known for.
Not ad hominem because no argument was built on it, nor was it in lieu of an argument. Should I paste the definition again?
I simply stated that because I had to repeat and explain a simple sentence after you misread it three times.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

18-Mar-2018 19:16:34

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
Man I really do want a crystal ball like you. Don't be rude share the info on where to get it

Zil has her enrage, Gra just smahes hard so he is the base that the others were a copy of and added on(in your logic)

you are walking not in combat. Is walking to the grand exchange now all of a sudden combat
I'll come back in 10 years if RS is still up and say I told you so.

Just ditch the strawman already. I said Legionaires, which are 90%+ copy-pasted are pretty much the same boss, you're bringing up "oh gwd1 bosses all drop godsword shards" therefore they are the same boss too. "oh they all have 1 unique mechanic each just like Legios". They don't share any mechanics unlike Legionaires which share all but one mechanic. And Graador doesn't have one anyway? Auto attacks don't count lol.

Another strawman.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

18-Mar-2018 19:32:06

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
It aint a strawman it actually is called reductio ad absurdum.

Again I haven't been flaming you. I haven't said you specifically are x. I have used your own words against you though.
It was both. At least you admit your fallacial argument holds no ground.

You don't have to specifically say you are x to flame someone.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

18-Mar-2018 19:47:44

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
Ahh another ad hominem. It is a terrible go to for real. At least try and think of a counter.
It is spelled pandemic if you are going to try and insult me atleast get the spelling correct

Nope, definately meant pedantic. Do I need to paste the dictionary definition?

Kcin said:
Nex†is†Life said:
You're walking into combat.

You're walking, you aren't in combat.
Here is you being pedantic.

EDIT: It's more of a critisism than an insult.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

18-Mar-2018 19:56:29 - Last edited on 18-Mar-2018 19:58:21 by Nex†is†Life

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
Actually for your education since you don't know what it actually means:" is a form of argument which attempts either to disprove a statement by showing it inevitably leads to a ridiculous, absurd, or impractical conclusion, or to prove one by showing that if it were not true, the result would be absurd or impossible."
It isn't a fallacy.

Your misunderstandings of what I post aren't flame.
It was an attempt at that argument. But you turned left twice then right twice and made a strawman.
For your education: The typical straw man argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition through the covert replacement of it with a different proposition and the subsequent refutation of that false argument instead of the opponent's proposition.

I'll say again - Legionaires share all their values (stats), all their mechanics but one, their entire main droptable.
They are the same boss at their core.

GWD1 bosses do not share values, do not share mechanics, do not share droptables.
They the same boss.

Green is my proposition, Red is yours. Strawman. It is not reductio ad absurdum because my reasoning (same mechanics, values, models) does not apply to GWD1.

Kcin said:
Nex†is†Life said:
definately meant pedantic.

Really, thats sad then cause you initially posted:Nex†is†Life said:
pendantic?
Which isn't a word.

I suggest you update to the lastest version of Oxford's English dictionary. You will find Pendantic under Pendant.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

18-Mar-2018 20:21:20

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:

Actually I used your argument of copy-paste. As you can tell it worked out well because of how upset you got because it was so absurd to you.

So were you trying to go for this then:
"pe∑dan∑tic
p&#601;&#712;dan(t)ik/Submit
adjective
of or like a pedant." Because that is so much more ludicrous than I initially thought.
Also Pendantic, doesn't exist as a word. Not in oxford, dictionary.com, Merriam.
You mean you baited me into responding because it was so fallacial and wrong.

If only your vocabulary extended beyond typing a word into google...
Odd it's right here?
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/pedantic
[puh-dan-tik]
1. ostentatious in one's learning.
2. overly concerned with minute details or formalisms, especially in teaching.

The italic being my use of the word.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

18-Mar-2018 21:19:37

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
But we diverge from the original topic.
Yes if you could respond to my posts instead of pointing out my spelling we could have a discussion.

EllingerMain said:
owever, I am still confused as to why (after all this time) Jagex is just now wanting to address this problem again out of the blue?
Because of Solak. Allegedly it's going to be super difficult and kill everyone and be impossible.
My expectations are low.

But any discussion about reaper potentionally being removed descends into people who can't kill existing bosses complaining.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

19-Mar-2018 17:00:27

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
You are the one who derailed it, I've been answering all things you've said about the OP. Not my fault you ignore what proves you wrong.

From what the OP has said their discussion isn't only because of Solak, they want to make bosses that only the top of the top can do.
Lord†Kylle said:

The reason the jmods are taking this up now on live streams, is that they say they wanna create even harder bosses in time, targeted at the top 5 % pvm'ers in game
Sure I went as off topic as you, but you've ignored most the things I said and instead cherry picked quotes out of context or responded with fallacies.
Now we can argue about that, or...

Yes, the reason reaper could be removed is because Solak (and more after Solak) will supposedly be endgame content that pushes and challenges the best players and is too hard for most people. Now I have my doubts about Jagex living up that based on past experiences, but that isn't relevant.

As reaper is on comp currently they must believe that existing bosses, including group bosses, are a reasonable requirement.
Group bosses are not unconventional (not sure how "walking isn't combat" refutes that?) they are a part of the game and always have been and there is no reason they shouldn't be on comp, clearly Jagex think that too, their concern being that new bosses (the next one which happens to be a group boss) will be too hard.

We've seen enrage mechanics as with Telos and Rax to keep endgame bosses open to everyone whilst making them more difficult to dedicated PvMers and it seems Jagex have changed direction. I expect we'd still see weaker future bosses everyone can do too.

My expectations are low, but if they do pull off supremely strong bosses I would support taking reaper off comp, limiting it to older/weaker bosses, or replacing it with other PvM requrements.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

19-Mar-2018 19:31:46 - Last edited on 19-Mar-2018 19:34:08 by Nex†is†Life

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
Nex†is†Life said:
because Solak

Solak isn't the only reason and I stated why with a quote from the OP.

Just because it is on comp doesn't mean they are reasonable requirements for comp, or no comp req would have been changed ever. Livid farm, harmony moss for 2

Been over this, you haven't been able to prove it wrong, using eoc isn't an example you can use to prove it wrong.

Nex†is†Life said:

bosses open to everyone

yeah except for the solo players
Ironmen(which they had to change)
Nice taking my quotes out of context again.
Nex†is†Life said:
because Solak (and more after Solak)


The reason for those being reduced was that they were a mindless grind that took a very long time. One of each boss doesn't fit either of those categories, so livid farm/harmony pillars cannot be used as a precedent

Burden of proof lies on the accuser. That's not me. You said group bosses are uncoventional, now say why.
Pre-EoC bosses being soloable is not a reason as we are playing RS3.

And as you just said, changed IM being able to access group bosses... so they are open to everyone, right?
Besides, if you choose to play IM you are knowingly locking yourself out of a lot of content.
The reason IM weren't able to do them on release was that they could leech group (and soloable unrestricted team size) bosses for free gear and loot.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

20-Mar-2018 13:24:35 - Last edited on 20-Mar-2018 13:38:33 by Nex†is†Life

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
Whether out of context or cherry picking whatever you want to call it, I don't.

Same can be said about having to kill repeat bosses, and the leeching bosses.
You are clearly stating that reaper is on comp so all bosses are a reasonable requirement. So that means to you livid farm's initial points are a reasonable requirement, but you just said they aren't

I have. 16 years of bossing with ~35 all being in the same convention vs 5 years and a handful being of the unconventional.

An ironman still can't group boss with a nonironman so no. Open to everyone would mean there is no restrictions on who can do what with who. They are still ultimately locked behind groups.

So what the difference between an ironman doing that and a normal account doing that for money.
2 different things and you do both.

But you don't have to kill repeat boss, you have to kill them once. That's as reduced and easy as it gets. And in no way grinding. But sure tell me how it's the same as cutting a ~35 hour grind to (how long is livid now, 20?).

Firstly I only count 18 PvM bosses with unresricted (aside from limit of 50) group sizes, with no group mechanics. That's including both KQs and all DKs (which actually required 2+ people to get in pre-EoC).
That's excluding solo only bosses as they are also restricted team size, did not exist until 2012 and there are only 4. Unconventional, right?
Secondly, your convention is pre-EoC and therefore irrelevant now since combat and bossing have been completely overhauled.

No, open to everyone means everyone can do it. Ironmen can do group bosses, having to do them other other IM doesn't make it closed off. And if it didn't it wouldn't matter as IM choose to limit themselves.

People say letting IM boss together devalues IM status. I personally don't care.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

20-Mar-2018 15:26:39

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
So I don't have to kill Arraxi twice for comp right now? But please tell me how Jagex puts what they think are reasonable comp reqs on comp cape.

6 bosses which falls under a handful.
Yet you keep saying that soloable bosses aren't the convention in runescape.

And post since mechanics to enter a room haven't changed because of combat. EoC is not a valid point.
Entering a boss has nothing to do with combat

Can ironmen raid with their friends? No
You don't have to kill Rax twice for comp. And if you did... wow... twice. That's asking for a lot, isn't it?

Convention doesn't simply mean majority, and I'll say again, most of those came out pre-EoC, since EoC we have had a mix of bosses of all group sizes.

Entering a boss has a rather a lot to do with combat lol. So the physical act of opening a door or climbing a ladder or stepping on a plate isn't combat (thats you being a pedant), entering a boss encounter pertains to the fight itself.
You can enter all bosses alone anyway now (so no different from pre-EoC... except those DKs which defy your convention), so it's mechanics that make bosses group bosses, you can enter solo, you can't defeat the boss alone.

Can Ironmen complete a raid? Yes
Doesn't seem closed to me.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

20-Mar-2018 21:52:35

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
Thanks for proving my point you don't actually know about comp reqs. Because you actually do, and it proves the point of your repetitiveness should be cut down.

a way in which something is usually done"
Again EoC has nothing to do withhow you enter a boss.

Fixed for ya
Thanks for proving my point you don't actually know about comp reqs. Because you actually don't, the Morvran's challenge kill counts towards reaper, killing two spooky spooder reqs with one newspaper.
It's still hilarious how you think one TWO Rax kills is too long a grind.

It also implies an accepted agreement; consensus.
You can argue entering a combat encounter isn't related to combat at all (lol), but that has nothing to do with what sets group bosses apart from other bosses.
You can enter any of them alone, you can walk right in just like any soloable boss. It's their mechanics that make them group bosses.
But nice job ignoring half my previous post.

You don't need bold and italic and underlining and colouring all at once, it just shows you're bad at expressing yourself

They can complete a raid. Doesn't matter who with, the content is open to them.
But what would you know about completing a raid with friends?
You'll get it when you deserve it.

21-Mar-2018 00:04:50

Nex†is†Life

Nex†is†Life

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Lord†Kylle said:
To @Kcin and @Nex is Life

You must both by now have won and lost your arguments at least 50 times?

I don't know why you both have to try so hard to be right, or why you seem to feel offended by the other person?
You have kept the tone fair, I give you that, and I get you want to win using arguments, and that you are using your arguments against each other.
But you should take your long talk somewhere else, even though it is on topic, it has become off topic, it adds nothing to this thread anymore.

So plz, stop.
Add each other in game or have a talk about this on discord. You might even end up having fun doing a boss together. :)
Ok, OP
It bothers me when people say stuff should be made easier for them.

I'll teach all bosses (for anyone reading this who needs reaper or just wants to do a boss), but I doubt kcin would want to.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

21-Mar-2018 14:55:03

Nex†is†Life

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B†I†L†L†Y said:
I'm comp pushing for 110all stats then 120 maybe who knows

I hate pvm soo this is how I at to do it

rago 100m leech

rots was 65m leech

full raid was 100m leech

nex 20m leech

nex aod did in j mod mass

kk was 20m
call me fake comp all you like but trust me I'm not the only one who cant do the team bossing
holy fk you got scammed hard
I've let people leech all of those for free
Can't believe anyone pays for Nex/KK

Divide all those by 7 wow
You'll get it when you deserve it.

01-Apr-2018 06:01:38

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
Nex†is†Life said:
Kcin said:
If they can do it to livid farm they sure as hell can do it to reaper.
You know livid wasn't actually removed, right?


And again bossing won't be removed.
Telos would be, not like ur cutting 1000 kill grind down to 600 more like 1 down to 0 which is removing.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

25-Apr-2018 00:48:29

Nex†is†Life

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yggdrsil said:
I will care about your thoughts when you can make high tier boss ready equipment without relying on rngesus to give you boss drops to upgrade from your current gear. If it is such a important requirement it should not have rng be a factor on getting to the next level of gear to fight a boss
It's abolutely not RNG. If you are decent at PvM you can go through the tiers one at a time and get good gear in a very short amount of time. Ironman or main, or not hard to get one of the many T70-80 weapons that are handed on on a platter, go to GWD2 and get T85s with high accuracy and T80 power armour. Droprate there is 1/256 per unique with max rep no luck ring. Nex with her 1/19 droprate for any unique can help for some pieces of armour, use GWD2 crests to fill missing slots. A week tops, and some armour can wait until after T90 weapons. Which come next. Rax for an average of 100 kills per weapon or KK (6/256 x timesize) or Rago (1/40 x timesize).
AOS/DTB/Reaper are as little as 10 days of reapers if you can do most bosses, 2-4 weeks if not. And a guarateed reward.

Fact is if you can't get T90 weapons and T80 armour you're not good enough to do T92s bosses to begin with. I guess you're one of those people who has had an Ironman for years and is still using Chaotics since I saw another post you write about this saying ironman btw.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

30-May-2018 23:37:04

Nex†is†Life

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Tom†Grey said:
Nex†is†Life said:
Tom†Grey said:
Nex†is†Life said:
Tom†Grey said:
Look at Raids and Solak, restricted arbitrarily and everyone has a problem.
No we don't.

Yes we do.
You're not everyone.

And you think you are? Look at recent updates and how many players have issue with the comp cape being a req. There are many more in game that don't come to forums. Its generally not regarded as good to have SOLAK on comp.
I didn't claim to be everyone.

Comp isn't there it be handed out, you're supposed to have issues getting it.

It's generally not regarded as good to have Livid farm on comp. But I'm not complaining.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

31-May-2018 18:10:34

Nex†is†Life

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Tom†Grey said:
1. Livid farm makes sense since it unlocks spells in your spell book.
2. Livid farm was nerfed to accommodate players who hated it on comp.
3. Solak should be removed from comp to accommodate players who hate it on comp. Thank you for getting my point across.

Also look at your reply to my initial post before you say you didn't claim to be everyone. When you say "we" (I guess this is what you were referring to in my post) you claim to be everyone as well.
Livid farm wasn't removed for comp, it was reduced. You have to do it for over 20 hours. Doing it for another 15 hours doesn't really add anything.
If the requirement for Solak was Final boss and a hundred kills required, I would support reducing that.

I said we (everyone) does not has a problem. That is not to say nobody has a problem, it was to say everyone isn't one person who is bad at RS.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

31-May-2018 21:35:26 - Last edited on 31-May-2018 21:35:48 by Nex†is†Life

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31-May-2018 22:17:24

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01-Jun-2018 01:05:31

Nex†is†Life

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Lord†Kylle said:
TTwo outcomes here if Jagex go forward with this idea:
1) Reaper and Final Boss capes will be attachable to comp cape, each giving it better stats
2) Reaper and Final Boss capes just have plain better stats than comp cape

I personally prefer option 1), so to keep all the effects and skillcape perks of comp cape while bossing.

Both option 1) and 2) include removing reaper title from comp cape.
As I said from the start, if reaper is removed from comp, at least add solo bosses to comp and more stuff from recent updates that ought to be there. :)
But what is the point here?

If you're reducing the stats on comp cape for people who only do skilling requirements then what is the difference between that, and... dare I say it... a Max cape?
You'll get it when you deserve it.

03-Jun-2018 21:27:50

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
Again if group bosses are moved to trim/removed from comp:

Bossing wasn't removed for comp, it was reduced. You have to do it for 10 boss kills. Doing it for another 10+ boss kills doesn't really add anything.

I said the majority has a problem. That is not to say minority doesn't has a problem.
But you don't have to do 10 34 boss kills. You have to kill 34 bosses once.
Killing KBD 34 times is the same as killing each boss once?
You don't have to repeat anything there is nothing to reduce, only remove.

You didn't say anything because I was replying to someone else.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

03-Jun-2018 21:33:17

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
If your logic works on livid farm being reduced, it will work on reaper being reduced.

Kill 34 bosses, vs kill 10 bosses
Do 20 hours of livid vs do 35 hours of livid

I did say this before, not my fault you can't remember what proves you wrong. When talking and you are in the majority (specially when it is the vast majority) you can say "we" when talking about the subject.
No it doesn't. Doing the same thing 10 times is not the same as doing 10 different things.
EDIT: You also assume I support any requirement being reduced.

Hey you still haven't noticed I was replying to someone else, who said "everyone has a problem". Also you don't need to be in the majority to use "we". It is simply a plural, can be used to refer to two people out of a million. It seems dictionary.com is failing you.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

05-Jun-2018 18:26:35 - Last edited on 05-Jun-2018 18:27:41 by Nex†is†Life

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
Killing 10 bosses vs killing 20 bosses. Completing 10 hours vs 20 hours.
No, because each of those bosses is unique, whereas each hour of livid farm is not. If you had to kill the same boss 20 times it would be a fair comparison.

Kcin said:
however the minority cannot use we in that same sense as they aren't the majority.
Yes we can
You'll get it when you deserve it.

06-Jun-2018 05:13:02

Nex†is†Life

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Kcin said:
In that case: Each time you get livid farm points you can do a unique mechanic, the plant choice isn't the same every time, the fence isn't the same every time, the order you can do these activies isn't the same. Bam unique just like how a 5phase boss is different from the other 5phase boss.
But you've already done every plant choicee, every fence spot (both of them!) within an hour. And by this logic you should include 1000 araxxor kills for comp because the paths are different, the special attacks are in a different order, the possible special attacks aren't the same each time.

Wait, are you seriously comparing having to repair a different section of the wall at livid to bosses with different... well everything?
Sure, Telos and Vorago are the same because they have 5 phases. Basically the same boss why are both of them required wtf

Kcin said:
You see, no you can't. The minority cannot speak for the majority, however the majority can speak for the majority. If you are going to try and correct someone else's grammar be sure you atleast know how to use it first.
We means I and at least one other person. We does not mean the majority.

If you are going to try and correct someone else's grammar be sure you atleast know how to use it first.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

06-Jun-2018 18:02:12

Nex†is†Life

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Marty†I said:
I also agree with what Smasherley said above in this post but have people seriously forgotten max cape has combat stats too...yes not the best but still something ofcourse.

It changed overall from completing quests/minigame type things like mage arena and livid farm for comp to now extras of PvM content which I agree yes is fun but it finds a reason for others to bully.... there is some Pvmers who hate quests and lore but want to kill solak/telos 24/7 which there is nothing wrong with that, just need to find that balance to reward those.
Then neither of those groups deserve comp (only one of them is complaining btw).

Fact is you have to play every area of the game to get comp and thats how it should be.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

29-Dec-2018 13:56:11

Nex†is†Life

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B†I†L†L†Y said:
good post me and my misses was both comp till solak I'm getting asked 150m each for a leech kill idk if I want to spend more cash when knowing jagex they will just add more top end bosses for that 1% of the game in my op they don't need a rework just get rif of reaper and idk swap it with salty or something like that
Have you tried spending 100 hours at practice mode Solak?

I guarantee everyone who complains about it hasn't tried to sit down and practice and learn the boss for a high amount of time. They just take one look at it and think "no it's too hard". You have a failure mindset and so you have failed before you start.
And before you say 100 hours isn't reasonable - you just suggested putting Salty on comp and 300k chimes is way more than 100 hours.

If you thought you could kill the boss, you'd do it. It's not impossible and there isn't a magical barrier between you and people who can. Only mentality.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

30-Dec-2018 02:19:47 - Last edited on 30-Dec-2018 02:37:59 by Nex†is†Life

Nex†is†Life

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Daibhi said:
Completionist means completionist, so following your logic the comp cape doesn't require you to play every area of the game thus it, again following your logic, technically speaking isn't a completionist cape as the trim comp requires further reqs which would cover the entirety of the game.
Well following your logic, completionist doesn't mean everything so therefore we should just take requirements you don't like off. IMO comp should be harder, but with more achievable sub-goals; max cape, taskmaster, qp cape are already there, I would like to see more, similar category-specific goals for PvM, minigames, achievements.
So for people who don't want to do a bit of everything those (along with non-comp content like MQC, pets, titles) are the goals.

And anyway I didn't say comp means every bit of content in every area. I said you have to play -an unspecified amount- in every area of the game to comp. Which you do.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

30-Dec-2018 02:37:28

Nex†is†Life

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Smasherley said:
Regardless of what opinions I have and we have collectively I think I know where this is going...

There are so many achievements that are not comp/trim or even Master quest requirements and would AT LEAST fall under the latter. Take this Benedict's world tour... I never knew about this. I check the updates weekely and I am like what is this?!?

Comp only needs to be reworked because of the useless group PVM requirements they've thrown on it.. And it ONLY lacks the relevant requirements because you haven't put the relevant requirement on the appropriate cape of the THREE.

Jagex are wholly to blame for this. Comp only needs a rework in their eyes because of their own failings in updating content to the capes properly
Comp isn't being reworked because off "useless group pvm requirements". Comp needs to be reworked because, as you identified early in your post, many things that should be on comp aren't.

Mod Breezy said things weren't being added "because of compers". The problem is people just expect to get comp instead of it being an exlusive cape for completing most of the game's content. Part of that problem is comp being a bis cape, thus people want it for the reward, not because they want to be a completionist and then cry when an update rolls round and it's gone, whether thats Menaphos or Solak.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

31-Dec-2018 19:19:59

Nex†is†Life

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Daibhi said:
If that is where the issue lies, allow standard comp to be realistically achievable by moving reqs. that would make more sense to be on trimmed but still require effort on the players part to complete the reqs. to get standard comp that remained. Moving things about is not giving anyone the cape for free, it would still require a fair bit of effort on their part to do what would be required to get it.
You're still asking to have it easy. Fortunately, Jagex are doing the opposite.

Their intention is to add more capes/goals before comp, while adding more requirements to comp
Tentative proposal for feedback and discussion:
- We add more capes which are more accessible than comp (but still harder than e.g. max cape) which have BIS stats and benefits (for example, "PVM cape" )
- Because comp is no longer held back by people who only want the BIS stats/benefits comp (and trim) are then free to have more requirements added, perhaps immediately or over time
- "More capes" includes both other categories of cape (e.g. quest cape, pvm cape, skilling/grinding cape, minigame cape, achievement cape) but also easier categories of the same cape (e.g. 50QP cape, 100QP cape, 200QP cape, etc) which can have lower stats
- Possibly add extra tiers of cape, e.g. comp, trim, true trim where "true" has "insane" reqs which are not achievable by most players
- Possibly move some cape utility (e.g. ava's) into its own reward (e.g. ava's just works if you have it unlocked) rather than having it all tied to specific capes
You'll get it when you deserve it.

31-Dec-2018 21:23:58

Nex†is†Life

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Smasherley said:
no that's not the issue. You just twist everything in favour of group PVM. You aren't even comped or close or even want
I want to comp and have just two requirements left - 120 slayer and DG. Inb4 its reworked before I finish

Which makes me closer than you will ever be since you will never kill Solak because you have an IQ of 12. Smasherley said:
Group content fixed the way solak is locks me out...

I own a clan of skillers not PVM elites. So its not a case of compers getting good. When its the difficulty of Solak, fixed to 2 or 7 people. impossible to solo or mass. It locks a lot of people out of it

You either pay extortion or you accept not having your cape.

I don't like that reality. Jagex need to change what they've created there. It's awful. Its not about how good you are but who you know and how much bank you have. This is a game where you are the master of your own world. Solak takes you out of it and puts your fate in others hands. When all the PVMers had the Hall of Memories to contend with.. they knew how we felt a bit. But they can go back to it.. We are locked out of Solak because that community kicks you out if they dont know you or you have no kills already. Its not the same thing.
Thing about comp is that its not for skillers or PvMers, it's for completionists who do both and more.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

31-Dec-2018 21:29:14

Nex†is†Life

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Daibhi said:
I'm not. You're making the same mistake Jagex does when it comes to quests where they think difficulty automatically means PVM or combat is needed - that isn't the case at all.
You're asking for requirements to be "moved" meaning removed, thus devaluing comp.

PvM is needed, not from the difficulty it adds, but because you can't call yourself a completionist if you completely avoid some areas of the game. It is the only requirement that requires any amount of actual skill (heaven forbid), but that doesn't mean offer requirements are not difficult, the long list of requirements take thousands of hours which isn't easy, having that much patience isn't easy.

That info came from Mod Breezy, bear in mind it's a preliminary list, but I am fairly sure the core parts will become reality.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

31-Dec-2018 23:55:08 - Last edited on 31-Dec-2018 23:55:46 by Nex†is†Life

Nex†is†Life

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Smasherley said:
The problem is I have listed several things which should be comp requirements, several things that should have relocked the achievements previously gained with the new updates that have been added

I will get comp when the update comes. Theres no question about that. I am presently at 1805 tasks and at over 19,000 runescore with only 992 gold tickets left to fully complete the castle wars requirement.

Trimmed depends on what boss requirements they put on it. The only issue I may have are the feats corresponding to Beastmaster Durzag and Yakamaru
And one of the key reasons rework is whether potential requirements from the last few years of content that weren't added - because of complainers like you btw - should be added. And it looks like they will be.

Even less runescore than me but they aren't bringing runescore into comp, so no amount will help you. Unless you have the score from reaper I guess.
You will still have to kill Solak for comp, so for aiming for trim is a bit pre-emptive wouldn't you say? ;)
You'll get it when you deserve it.

04-Jan-2019 08:43:35

Nex†is†Life

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scousy said:
Something that is "broken" is something that won't allow you to do something in game Ex: can't complete a quest or something that is glitched. Is reaper title being a requirement on comp cape a glitch?
It's broken because its toooo haaaard
You'll get it when you deserve it.

04-Jan-2019 08:43:57

Nex†is†Life

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Smasherley said:
The best in slot argument is a load of bull.. MAX CAPE has almost the same stats. the difference is 300 lp bonus which comes from the reefwalker cape req.

Max cape is identical in that it holds 3 skill capes.

Comp just acts as a spirit cape/ardycape/firecape (having completed that content separately)

Trim gives nothing extra but fashionscape/flex

The hate for comp is so moronic
The only moronic thing here is what you wrote.
Max cape does not have "almost the same stats". The difference in damage is worth a whole other equipment slot - remember that comp cape is better than a T92 power body.
300HP bonus is huge and game changing at certain bosses (not that you would know).
The skillcapes' perks only matter for melee where having str cape perk alone would make a cape bis in most circumstances.

"Comp just acts as a spirit cape/..." Hello? Spirit cape is dank and underrated. How can you say comp JUST has these great effects?
Makes me cringe that right now there are comp capes without Spirit Capes attached.

All that said I agree with you that requirements shouldn't be held back because people cba to do them and there is nothing wrong locking bis behind such requirements.
Well if they do decide the only way to make comp what it should be instead of leaving stuff off is offering bis elsewhere then whatever that doesn't matter to me.

But yeah the stats and effects are a big difference.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

08-Jan-2019 12:24:33

Nex†is†Life

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Smasherley said:
Idiotest said:
Daibhi said:
This rework has a lot of potential to please both sides of the table here but I also suspect one of the reasons why this gets such an uproar is because, if changes are made namely to reaper etc., those who charge players who can't do that will lose out on probably billions.

This.

I dunno, I have no faith and trust in jagex. I think the issues infront of us are created by jagex themselves and think they wont update it to cater or their player base but the ex streamers trying to find ways to line the leech services community of hoardes of billions.
This is a pretty big problem. The best way to fix this would be to make the requirements non-leechable, both destroying the leech market and not making Comp even easier than the Max cape plus it is currently. And hey maybe we could actually use the Teamwork forums to make teams.
If you had to get 15 enrage stacks at BM/Yaka/AoD or 4 bomb/base drop chances at Rago you wouldn't really be leeching ;)
You'll get it when you deserve it.

08-Jan-2019 12:28:40

Nex†is†Life

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Daibhi said:
I think, to avoid this happening again, Jagex needs to figure out a means of determining reasonable difficulty for the respective cape and never stray from it again when new content is added to the game. Anything that involves reaper, boss kills etc. should be on trim and things like I don't know.. reqs. that can only be done by a single player be on standard comp?
You say Jagex need to figure out a means of determining difficultly for respective capes... Then you say x requirement should be on trim because you don't like it?

Here is what Jagex might use to determine what belongs on what cape - this came from Mod Breezy
T1: participate in all content
T2: complete all content (unless it's ridiculous)
T3: complete all content (even if it's ridiculous)


From that and the discussions it seems they are mostly interested in how long things take and what is defined as completion. Repeatable content is hard to define as "completed", but a meagre 1 kill of each boss certainly comes within "participation".
Additionally, it was stated that arguments of "Remove Reaper because RS pvm is too hard" aren't constructive.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

08-Jan-2019 13:05:53

Nex†is†Life

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Daibhi said:
No.... why do you keep assuming I'm complaining about how it works because I "dont want" to do things I "don't like"?

I've already explained to you on the other comp thread (and in fact linked information that explains it all clearly on a page in this one) the definitions of these words have very clear differences in my particular situation there are none I "don't like" but there are some I literally cannot do due to irrefutable health reasons; not the basic excuse of "I don't like this so I don't want to do it, remove it" you seem to always get caught up on.
So the game should revolve around one person?
You'll get it when you deserve it.

08-Jan-2019 20:17:33

Nex†is†Life

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Daibhi said:
If by participation it is literally just participation (which means completion is not required; just the act of participating in any form - otherwise it's completion and not participation Ref. the whole dance we had around the literal definition of the word completionist but just change it to those words) that sounds like a reasonable compromise.
No, don't take participation to literally mean participation prize else getting 10xp would qualify you for max
You'll get it when you deserve it.

08-Jan-2019 20:19:48

Nex†is†Life

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Daibhi said:
But why would everything need to be completed by a single player? Group content is as much a part of the game as other content. Don't like it? Don't comp.

Why should Reaper be on trim? (that is what people who never plan on trimming say because they want reg comp)
Ridiculous in the context of the proposed categorisation above referred to time investment. A speedrun of Reaper would take about 3 hours.
PvM in RS isn't difficult. In terms of time investment, it doesn't take long to learn a boss compared to the amount of time you spend skilling or questing or getting other unlocks. People who complain about Reaper haven't spent 100 hours trying to Solak or whatever, else they would have it.
Comp is an endgame cape for endgame players. It's aimed at people who have maxed combat levels, access to curses, overloads, mammoths/titans, etc from getting max levels and quest points. And with their levels players are able to obtain gear - at least T88 weapons and decent armour. And with all that in mind there isn't a real reason players who are almost comped can't do Reaper.

A majority of the comped players bought kills - gonna need a source on this. Oh wait you don't have one.
People can buy DG and a lot did. Guess it should be moved to trim too?
If anything the whole leeching thing is an argument that more specific PvM requirements should be made. I brought up using a set of the new PvM achievements but that doesn't look like it will happen. Mod Jack said he wanted time investment (in each area of the game inlcuding PvM), not challenges, and we might end up with Final Boss on trim instead. Which is stupid since FB is just arbitrary kcs. But hey most people won't be able to buy 100 leeches.

At the end of the day it is people's choices to leech kills. They could learn the boss but they are lazy. I agree that leechable/massable bosses devalues the achievement, but scrapping requirements or "moving to trim" devalues comp more.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

09-Jan-2019 11:21:59

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