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How Powerful Is Tumeken?

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Gwyndolynn

Gwyndolynn

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Currently, on RuneScape Wiki it suggests that Tumeken is a tier 5 god. And I'm not here to suggest differently but I'd like to hear from someone who is more familiar with the lore than I am. Consider the following:

Transcendent gods (tier 2), "are able to manipulate life to create mutations of that life. Able to escape from own body to become incorporeal. Able to manipulate the life-force (the Anima Mundi) of a world."

Now with that in mind lets examine some of Tumeken's history.

First, the fact that he is the sire of two gods and the creator of four others (in whom he instilled his essence). Is that not a characteristic of a tier 2 god? The manipulation of life? The only ones who have achieved such a feat were at least eye level with Zaros. And then in Sliske's Endgame Icthlarin reverted into a dog. Is this an indicator as to his tier of godhood or is it not 'technically' manipulation of life but the empowering of life. Also, the other four were given his essence so it may not apply.

Second, if Tumeken is truly alive and resides in that gem (what's it called again?) would he not need to take on an incorporeal form after the destruction of his body? Because he kinda self detonated. Another characteristic of a tier 2 god.

Does someone have an explanation for this? Thoughts?
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30-Apr-2017 23:29:38 - Last edited on 30-Apr-2017 23:31:53 by Gwyndolynn

Gwyndolynn

Gwyndolynn

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Sodden Hound said:
A common theory I'm hearing that explains some of it is that he's a Dream of Mah. It's kind of a crackpot theory but it DOES explain some stuff? Such as being able to create aspects and all (Tiny Zemouregal, and the Ritual of Enervation with Zemouregal Senior basically creating a new person with his energy), as well as the Kharid-ib diamond being "him" like how a Mahjarrat's gemstone is who they are. Along with being an explanation for the animal aspects of the Pantheon, since the Dreams are shapeshifters.

The thread's been front page here recently, so check it out I guess?


Just read that thread. Huh, that's a crazy theory! I'm just gonna move over to that thread. Please let this one die.
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01-May-2017 00:31:26

Gwyndolynn

Gwyndolynn

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Sodden Hound said:
A common theory I'm hearing that explains some of it is that he's a Dream of Mah. It's kind of a crackpot theory but it DOES explain some stuff? Such as being able to create aspects and all (Tiny Zemouregal, and the Ritual of Enervation with Zemouregal Senior basically creating a new person with his energy), as well as the Kharid-ib diamond being "him" like how a Mahjarrat's gemstone is who they are. Along with being an explanation for the animal aspects of the Pantheon, since the Dreams are shapeshifters.

The thread's been front page here recently, so check it out I guess?


And it was in a 'dream' that Tumeken created the other four desert gods. Just as Ma did in a dream!
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01-May-2017 02:09:13

Gwyndolynn

Gwyndolynn

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Swolllliosis said:
Crow Crimson said:
Tumeken enchanting the 4 minor gods from normal animals reminded me of Guthix enchanting Death and the Easter Bunny from normal mortals (which did not seem to weaken him btw).

If this was true, would Death and the Easter Bunny be considered tier 7 minor gods as well?


Tumeken gave each of the four minor gods divine power. Guthix didn't do that to Fiara, Juna, Ocellus, Death, or the Easter Bunny, rather he made them grow bigger and heightened their mental capacity to allow them to think and speak like we do. Think of Nex who Zaros evolved to become intelligent and not a mindless savage. I think Tumeken did something different where he actually ripped a chunky part of his own energy to make them gods.


This^

So it wasn't that he lost a tier but rather he divided himself. Kinda like if I gave you a bodily appendage to borrow...

Which begs the question, to what extent is his essence in the other four gods conscious? Or has it wholly merged with their minds?

And what was his purpose in dividing his power? Does that give us an insight into his belief system? Perhaps he had a "all for one and one for all" attitude?

Also, is this technically "manipulation of life" or more that he was imparting power? That would give us a more definite answer a sense to his power.
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02-May-2017 15:40:59 - Last edited on 02-May-2017 15:42:50 by Gwyndolynn

Gwyndolynn

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Here is a theory

I think Tumeken had the Staff of Armadyl through part of the god wars. Because after Zamorak took down Zaros with it, it disappeared from history.

One of its uses is the transferring of power. Perhaps it was with the staff that he transferred his power into the gods, and with the staff that he transferred himself into the gem.
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02-May-2017 23:33:01 - Last edited on 03-May-2017 00:04:54 by Gwyndolynn

Gwyndolynn

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Hguoh said:
Gwyndolynn said:
Here is a theory

I think Tumeken had the Staff of Armadyl through part of the god wars. Because after Zamorak took down Zaros with it, it disappeared from history.


According to Zemouregal's memory, the following occurred immediately after Zamorak was taken to Infernus:

Moments later, those fools Armadyl and Saradomin appeared, witnessed the carnage, claimed the fallen staff and stone, and vanished again.


True. But that doesn't account for the many years that followed. Because Armadyl eventually left Gielinor to grieve the Avianses and we have no record of Saradomin ever using it (as far as I know). Further, why was it left behind when the gods were banished? There is still some history unaccounted for.
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03-May-2017 22:43:56

Gwyndolynn

Gwyndolynn

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Hguoh said:
Gamez X said:
One thing is clear, he is FAR more powerful than people think he is atm and way above his t5 status on the wiki. Evidence for this, lets look at what he did in his time. He nuked an entire region permanently changing its environment as a show of his power. This action mirrors exactly what zammy did to the wilderness except zammy needed the stone of jas to do that, tumeken did this all by himself


There's two very noticeable differences between what Zammy and Tumeken did:

1. Zamorak's explosion altered/cut off the land's connection to the Anima Mundi, Tumeken's just appears to have altered the climate but not the anima.
2. Zammy's explosion left a giant freaking crater at it's epicenter by the sheer force of the blast, Tumeken's just did surface damage.

The magnitude of Tumeken's explosion just doesn't compare with Zamorak's.


Actually I believe Tumeken's explosion was more powerful. It effected a whole continent! Killed almost all life! There very well could've been a crater but that would be covered in sand now.

Also, the Anima Mundi was effected because they were draining it lol. Also, it was like a shaft connecting the Anima to the surface -kinda like a volcano so it made no 'real' impact on the Anima or vorago probz woulda showed. Is it possible that tumekin used the Anima for the explosion and that is why little grows? It used to be a forest. Like Isfadar? All that Anima waste?
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03-May-2017 23:14:01

Gwyndolynn

Gwyndolynn

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Hguoh said:
Gwyndolynn said:
Hguoh said:
Gwyndolynn said:
Here is a theory

I think Tumeken had the Staff of Armadyl through part of the god wars. Because after Zamorak took down Zaros with it, it disappeared from history.


According to Zemouregal's memory, the following occurred immediately after Zamorak was taken to Infernus:

Moments later, those fools Armadyl and Saradomin appeared, witnessed the carnage, claimed the fallen staff and stone, and vanished again.


True. But that doesn't account for the many years that followed. Because Armadyl eventually left Gielinor to grieve the Avianses and we have no record of Saradomin ever using it (as far as I know). Further, why was it left behind when the gods were banished? There is still some history unaccounted for.


Armadyl left to grieve for the Aviansie after Zamorak blew them up, and Zamorak blew them up at the end of the God Wars (with Guthix banishing them all shortly thereafter). This would place the staff in Armadyl's hands throughout the god wars, and then in the Temple of Ikov from then until Lucien 'liberated' it.

As for why it was left behind, who knows. Perhaps Armadyl felt that it would be safer to keep it away from other gods (even if it meant he couldn't use it). Perhaps Armadyl intended to off himself (only to change his mind upon revisiting Abbinah and finding the Aviansie there), and wanted to secure the siphon in his absence. Perhaps Armadyl just didn't have it on him when Guthix banished him (it evidently wasn't on him when it was stolen and eventually got to Zamorak), and the Guardians took it upon themselves to keep it safe.

However you paint it, the staff has not been unaccounted for during any point of history after Armadyl arrived on Gielinor.


You're right.
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03-May-2017 23:15:23

Gwyndolynn

Gwyndolynn

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Hguoh said:
Gwyndolynn said:
Actually I believe Tumeken's explosion was more powerful. It effected a whole continent! Killed almost all life! There very well could've been a crater but that would be covered in sand now.

Also, the Anima Mundi was effected because they were draining it lol. Also, it was like a shaft connecting the Anima to the surface -kinda like a volcano so it made no 'real' impact on the Anima or vorago probz woulda showed. Is it possible that tumekin used the Anima for the explosion and that is why little grows? It used to be a forest. Like Isfadar? All that Anima waste?


1. *facepalm* Forinthry is a continent. And the explosion was large and powerful enough to not only sever the continent's connection to the Anima, but also wipe out all life known to be in the area with the exception of the gods.

2. There was never a crater. Kharshai's memory:

Then he raised his arms to the sky, and the light from his body grew brighter until nothing could be seen, and then his body exploded into fire and I passed out.

When I awakened, the battlefield was a smoking, smouldering mess. Heaps of ash lay all over the battlefield.

Notice anything? No mention of a crater. I find it very hard to believe that a gigantic crater would be something a memory would just skim over.

3. What evidence do you have for somebody draining the Anima in the WIlderness explosion. As far as I am aware, the explosion resulted from Zamorak trying blow up himself and the other gods by using the Stone of Jas while it was in an unstable state (source: Dishonor Among Theives flashback).


So I just now realized you weren't talking about the lumbridge crater lol. Which makes my defense make no sense. So yeah definitely the crater in Forinthry was much more powerful than Tumeken's! Maybe now you can understand my incredulity lol
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06-May-2017 15:26:01

Gwyndolynn

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Then why revert into a dog at all? I dont think he was born a god. I don't even think Icthlarin is the son of Tumeken in the bilogical sense, but more like how Zaros/Seren are to Mah. Mah was their 'Mother' because she was their creator -they were 'born' in a dream.

I think the fact that Icthlarin became a dog in Sliske's Endgame proves that Icthlarin used to be just that, a dog. Just as Saradomin became a human, Armadyl an Avianses, etc.

So I'm almost certain my suggestion and your second suggestion are true.

I read that thread about the Shanty Pass -would make for a cool backstory!

Also, I only just 'got into' lore so it's all kinda patchy. So keep the corrections coming
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08-May-2017 05:03:58

Gwyndolynn

Gwyndolynn

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Miseryoflife said:
I seriously don't get why everyone goes to him nuking the desert as proof of his power. Remember Tumeken used ALL OF HIS DIVINE POWER to do that. If he was a tier 3 god he could have done that without killing himself. Also the damage done to the wilderness is far greater than the damage done to make the desert. We also have nothing to compare Tumeken as a benchmark. No other god has detonated all of their divine power so we don't know what would happen if say Saradomin blew himself up to compare.


We have already moved on from that
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08-May-2017 21:27:35

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