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Additional Rule Suggestion

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4ev
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2017

4ev

Posts: 502Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I've not seen any fitting category to post this, so if this is not the correct area of the forums to do so, please feel free to move my thread.

That being said, there's one thing that seems to be occurring across just about every forum section (other than some specialist categories) which I feel instigates a lot of unnecessary responses to bait.

Responding to threads with multiple accounts providing support, or the same message.


This both adds needless clutter within the thread (you're not really creating anything, except a skewed representation of how popular/unpopular the idea is) and will bait certain users who would have left a thread to die into responding, because the thread has a false sense of being supported. I've also seen it used as a form of retaliation, where the same user responds with the same negative response using multiple accounts, once again skewing the actual amount of support a legitimate thread is receiving. Any and all uses of alts responding to the same thread are disruptive to the forums, in my honest opinion.

I feel the forums would be a lot nicer of a place if this rule was added, and enacted upon.

Thank you for reading,
4ev

Proposed amendment to rules:

Do not use multiple accounts inappropriately.

1. Do not post on the same thread using multiple accounts.
2. All offenses on any of your forum accounts will be applied to all of your forum accounts.
3. Do not use another account to prevent being banned or evade a current ban. See above.
My Suggestions:
Cross Minigame Reward Shop - waiting since December 26th 2013
Spelunking - non-combat raids

15-May-2019 17:41:57 - Last edited on 16-May-2019 20:12:29 by 4ev

4ev
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2017

4ev

Posts: 502Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Yes, but not only that.

For instance, I have witnessed NUMEROUS occasions of someone bumping 4+ threads within the same forums with support posts (pushing real discussion off the front page).

Also, I've seen quite a few cases of someone starting flame wars on threads, where they progressively quote their alt accounts and get further and further off topic, in a direction that the OP is likely to respond to, at which point they can no longer be reported for off-topic posts, because the OP has responded, making it no longer off topic...

I've seen posts where they pretend to be different users, with things such as quoting themselves, then saying something along the lines of:
"I would like to know too" - creating a false sense of urgency for the OP to respond to their post, no matter how far off topic it would lead the thread.

These are just some of the examples I've seen of alts being used on the RSOF forums to disrupt legitimate posting. These occur numerous times, and the alts involved change.
My Suggestions:
Cross Minigame Reward Shop - waiting since December 26th 2013
Spelunking - non-combat raids

15-May-2019 18:54:59 - Last edited on 15-May-2019 18:57:07 by 4ev

Chief Elf
Apr Member 2017

Chief Elf

Posts: 4,923Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I feel like this is already an implied rule.

The problem with explicitly stating this rule 4ev, is that it's unenforceable. Fmods don't have the ability to check IP addresses like Jagex do.

Given the forum activity of Jmods, how much can we expect Jmods to investigate alleged cases of forum disruption via multiple alts?
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15-May-2019 19:46:30 - Last edited on 15-May-2019 19:46:54 by Chief Elf

NexOrigin

NexOrigin

Posts: 1,320Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Thread derailment, regardless of how many accounts are used to do it, would already be covered by the forum rules.

As for supporting your own idea with alt accounts... Does the number of people who support an idea change your own opinion about that idea? Or is your opinion based on the actual idea itself?

15-May-2019 20:12:27

4ev
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2017

4ev

Posts: 502Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Chief Elf said:
I feel like this is already an implied rule.

The problem with explicitly stating this rule 4ev, is that it's unenforceable. Fmods don't have the ability to check IP addresses like Jagex do.

Given the forum activity of Jmods, how much can we expect Jmods to investigate alleged cases of forum disruption via multiple alts?


That's a valid point. I do know on most of the forums, etc. that I moderate/moderated I have/had permissions to see IPs, and even ended up writing a script for the one to test for alts (comparing all IPs ever used to post with) so I could connect accounts when one got really bad. People forget to switch VPNs occasionally (or use the same one later) if they go that far to hide their connections. I see that isn't really possible here without giving Fmods extra visibility, which could be viewed as private information.

Personally I would be okay with Fmods having that power, but I'm sure some wouldn't, so I won't even bother going down that path as a suggestion.

Maybe they just need better tools for the Fmods so they can act more appropriately? For example, Jagex could have a list of linked confirmed alts, infractions across those accounts, etc. in a hidden section of the forums.

It could potentially take a lot of work on the front end to gather that info, but I see the long term benefits being more than rewarding. It would also help them to find those doing ban evasion quite easily. I know they've taken stances similar with the hard hitting RWTers in game, where any account associated with that player gets banned. I've even heard of past RWTers getting banned simply because Jagex later found out they were the owner of an account later, which had nothing to do with RWT anymore. Can we get this strictness on the forums too? Sort of a no-nonsense policy when it comes to the greatest of rule breakers.
My Suggestions:
Cross Minigame Reward Shop - waiting since December 26th 2013
Spelunking - non-combat raids

16-May-2019 00:43:45 - Last edited on 16-May-2019 00:59:48 by 4ev

4ev
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2017

4ev

Posts: 502Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
NexOrigin said:
Thread derailment, regardless of how many accounts are used to do it, would already be covered by the forum rules.

As for supporting your own idea with alt accounts... Does the number of people who support an idea change your own opinion about that idea? Or is your opinion based on the actual idea itself?


Yes derailment is covered by the rules, and those posts are hidden. However, if the posts barely tiptoe over the line a little more each time, nothing more than a hidden post happens. If, however, the person responding to the report knew that 3 of the 5 off-topic posts (random example) belonged to the same person, maybe something stricter would be done.

Also, if the OP account stays on topic, and they bait with alternates, nothing can really be done to the thread, under the current rules, so it will continue to disrupt the forums. Sure, it might serve the purpose of consolidating the disruption into one thread, but it is still disrupting the forums.

----------------

No, the amount of people supporting/not supporting shouldn't change your opinion, but there is a thing called mob mentality, so maybe it does a little. There's been studies that suggest things like the media can influence the way you think (the human mind is fascinating, and easily influenced), but I digress, I don't really want to get into psychology and things like that, as that wasn't my intent with this thread.

My actual issue is that if someone sees a lot of people saying "This is the greatest idea since sliced bread," maybe they will look at it harder; when they would have just passed the idea by otherwise. This often leads to heated responses which otherwise wouldn't have happened. Which leads to more work for those at Forum Help. I would just like things to be dealt with appropriately, once, rather than what that thread has devolved into.

Let me know if that explains my stance well enough, or if i need another post
My Suggestions:
Cross Minigame Reward Shop - waiting since December 26th 2013
Spelunking - non-combat raids

16-May-2019 00:56:45 - Last edited on 16-May-2019 00:59:07 by 4ev

Dong U Dead

Dong U Dead

Posts: 22,591Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The derailment of threads has happened for years if it's through alts, flaming, lies etc. Stuff all has been done about it and will be done about it - unless you are a certain forumer you will get the help <- I have seen it time and time again. I have made umpteen threads on this matter and it just turns to custard. It's a very biased forum, very unfair and there are threads that are not protected or helped, certain thread owners can't do anything about it.
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16-May-2019 01:05:59

NexOrigin

NexOrigin

Posts: 1,320Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
4ev said:
Let me know if that explains my stance well enough, or if i need another post
I think that explains it fairly well.

So how would this rule be worded?

Would it be like the old "multi-logging" rule in the game or something of the sort?

16-May-2019 01:36:24

4ev
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2017

4ev

Posts: 502Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'll ponder on wording so it can't be lawyer'd (and update first post). I'm pretty good at finding loopholes, so I'm equally good at preventing them :P

Going to bed for the night though, so it'll have to wait until tomorrow.


edit:

Basically, they can use multiple accounts to post; however, all black marks (do we still call it that or is it strikes now?) should be shared across those accounts. No more switching accounts once you get an offense, to prevent being banned in the first place, thus mitigating the ban evasion rule.

Furthermore, they need to not be able to use multiple alts on the same thread, for any reason (not even bumps, that's what the bump button is for). Bumping too many threads is also part of the overall problem. I've seen certain individuals spam bump, post useless comments, etc. on random threads to bury threads/constructive comments of someone who's recently reported them. This should help with that too.

So with that being said, I am thinking something along the lines of this:

Do not use multiple accounts inappropriately.

1. Do not post on the same thread using multiple accounts.
2. All offenses on any of your forum accounts will be applied to all of your forum accounts.
3. Do not make a new account to prevent being banned or evade a current ban. See above.
My Suggestions:
Cross Minigame Reward Shop - waiting since December 26th 2013
Spelunking - non-combat raids

16-May-2019 04:01:39 - Last edited on 16-May-2019 04:45:14 by 4ev

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