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M&S DOA?

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Matchgirl42
Jul Gold Premier Club Member 2011

Matchgirl42

Posts: 477Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The problem here is that, when the rework was announced, Jagex said they had designed it to make M&S more profitable. That's what got people excited. We're not even asking for 100m in a day here, or for M&S to be the best money maker in the game. Increasing the alch values of elder rune to 30k-40k/bar (with tiered increases for other ores) would be sufficient, and give elder rune gear - which is a higher tier than rune is and was - the value it deserves as higher tier gear.

Of course, the rework turned out to not be more profitable and, once prices stabilize based on the current alch value, will be even less profitable. I know that's why I quit M&S and went back to combo runes in disgust, and the original intent of this post was to find out if others also had quit M&S, and why. I also know that I, for one, feel like this is another instance where I was lied to by Jagex, because by setting the elder rune alch value so low, it deliberately set up the M&S rework to be less profitable than it was before.

I will say, though, that one thing they did do right was replace the M&S gear drops with the metal salvage. Still alchable, tradeable and can be disassembled for invention.

For all gathering skills to produce the same profit/hr, they would need to be comparable supply and alch value. Which is probably not going to happen; and it is that variability that helps lend the runescape economy what stability it still has.

And just because something is very profitable doesn't mean everyone will do it. Not everyone enjoys doing AFK/semi-AFK stuff. Barrows, killing the magister, and high level private grenwall hunting all earn more than crafting combo runes, but you don't see everyone doing those things or crafting combo runes, either. And as others have pointed out, gp is not the only thing worthwhile in the game. It's just a priority right now for ppl like me. Once I get my yearly premiere membership, I go back to doing other things. I don't gp grind all year.

22-Jan-2019 04:50:58

Matchgirl42
Jul Gold Premier Club Member 2011

Matchgirl42

Posts: 477Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
People sell bonds for lots of reasons. For some, it's to get a head start in the game as a new player. For others, it's to get gear and other items they normally wouldn't be able to get via regular gameplay, or would take so long to get they don't have the patience to do so.

All of the arguments about how raising the value of items de-stabilizes the economy and makes gp worthless, that's always the argument trotted out every time, and every time high-value items (like LOTD, GOTE, and Hazelmere's Ring to name a few recent ones; and godswords, chaotics and dyes for older items) get added to the game, those arguments get disproved.

22-Jan-2019 04:57:19

Matchgirl42
Jul Gold Premier Club Member 2011

Matchgirl42

Posts: 477Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Nex is Life said:
"skillers" don't deserve gp you should instead learn to play the game


If skilling didn't deserve gp it wouldn't be part of the game.

Maybe you should learn to play the game as it is, and not some combat-only fantasyland.

22-Jan-2019 04:58:47

Mini JIT
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2014

Mini JIT

Posts: 962Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
LOTD, GOTE, HSR, P Hats, Godswords, Chaotics (from selling floors), Dyes, even bonds (-the tax) none of them effect the economy because 1 person sells them and 1 person buys them but the amount of gp in the game still remains the same. Raising the alch price of a item brings in pure gp. The more gp in the game the less it is worth, you might make more gp a hour but the price of bonds will go up by the same amount. If it takes you x amount of skilling hours to earn a bond then it will still take you the same amount of hours to earn a bond after the price goes up. A example of reverse effect is say you make 4m gp from combi runes but because the price of bonds goes up you will have to do more combi runes to make up the price but the amount you make from combi will still remain at 4m because the demand and supply will remain the same.

Most people will always take the best method of making money or gaining xp or items even if they don't like it. Warbands, caches, sinkholes, bossing, raids ect. Recent polls showed most players do not want group bossing but jagex still gives them and players still take part because it gives them the items they need.

A new account just mining few hours a day can get to 99 in about 2 weeks so why would they buy bonds with real money when they can earn it themselves selling ores. Runescape does not get new players just new alt accounts and most already know how to make money, they can have a alt mining all day just to feed the main account to smith and alch into gp, just like many did when invention came out and they had alts afk gathering energy.

22-Jan-2019 16:27:44

Armodilo
Dec Member 2011

Armodilo

Posts: 535Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Ideally stuff would be higher than it's alch value and artisan skills would add value to base resources rather than being loss making exp only.

There are a bunch of things they could probably change or mess about with to try and change prices:
Amount of bars to make armour, stone spirit amounts, extra bars from smelting, custom degrading half as fast, using a small amount of glorious bars to repair normal masterwork rather than coin. I think alch prices might be the last thing you mess with.

@matchgirl wondering why you did comparisons for elder rune and none of the masterwork steps?

22-Jan-2019 17:04:18

Matchgirl42
Jul Gold Premier Club Member 2011

Matchgirl42

Posts: 477Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
All of the items I listed are, AFAIK, alchable. (Admittedly, some of them you wouldn't want to alch because they're rares and worth much more on the G.E. than their alch price, and it would be a massive profit loss, but...) Meaning they inject gp into the game. And them being introduced to the game injected gp that wasn't there before. And yet...the effects of inflation you're talking about didn't happen.

But ok, another example then. We've had, at various points, cash loot bags from treasure hunter. We've had monsters drop increasing amounts of gp. We've had the alchemist's amulet that gives 50,000gp/charge/day.

A few years ago when bonds first became available to buy the premiere club with, I thieved from clan workers in prffidinas, which also injects gp into the game. As does penguin hunter, and various other activities. All of these inject gp into the game. And yet, the biggest factor affecting bond prices has been demand, not gp supply. Every year towards the end of the year, bonds get a jump in demand and a corresponding jump in price. It's not tied to the amount of gp in the game; it's tied to demand.

And Jagex also removes gp from the game through various methods, like degradeable equipment, so it balances out.

And some people - they don't like skilling. They don't want to take the full time to do it, they want to get right into combat and quests. So for, say, smithing and herblore - crafting skills - the xp rates go much quicker when you can buy your supplies. Even gathering skills can be quickened via gp, albiet to a lesser extent. You can get outfits quicker, for starters, which increase xp rates. And boy does prayer go really quick if you're able to buy your supplies...

You're an ironman account, so a lot of this is probably outside of your experience and thus you're having a difficult time understanding it - but you have to realize, everyone doesn't play the game the same way that you do. And that's ok!

23-Jan-2019 02:36:57

Matchgirl42
Jul Gold Premier Club Member 2011

Matchgirl42

Posts: 477Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Armodilo said:
Ideally stuff would be higher than it's alch value and artisan skills would add value to base resources rather than being loss making exp only.

There are a bunch of things they could probably change or mess about with to try and change prices:
Amount of bars to make armour, stone spirit amounts, extra bars from smelting, custom degrading half as fast, using a small amount of glorious bars to repair normal masterwork rather than coin. I think alch prices might be the last thing you mess with.

@matchgirl wondering why you did comparisons for elder rune and none of the masterwork steps?


Alch prices would be easiest, though, and as I said, make the value match the tier.

And I didn't compare the masterwork because I didn't want to run a test that would take weeks if not a full month to complete. Smithing masterwork, from the info available on the wiki, takes a LONG time, much longer than elder rune. And takes either buying the bars outright which is too expensive, or more mining to get the lower tier ores to smith into the bars needed. And as far as I can tell from the street prices of the bars and the armor, buying the bars to smith the masterwork armor leads to a net profit loss.

As I've said before, I'm trying to make money here, not spend it. I actually didn't alch the elder rune+5 platebody; it's still in my bank.

23-Jan-2019 02:41:16

Matchgirl42
Jul Gold Premier Club Member 2011

Matchgirl42

Posts: 477Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I am running another test right now, filling out an elder rune+5 armor set, to see if the street price on that is actually worth it. But it's taking time. Still have dark animica ores to mine, then smelting and smithing.

23-Jan-2019 02:44:15

Matchgirl42
Jul Gold Premier Club Member 2011

Matchgirl42

Posts: 477Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Whelp. Elder rune+5 armor set is insta-selling for 5m each.

Took me 6 hours to get the ores, smelt, and smith the set.

That's 833k/hr.

*disgusted*

~Fooled by Jagex, once again.~

I love this game, I do, otherwise I wouldn't play it, but man they make it difficult to continue doing so.

23-Jan-2019 11:56:34

Steelweaver
Sep Gold Premier Club Member 2015

Steelweaver

Posts: 11,490Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Matchgirl42 said:
Whelp. Elder rune+5 armor set is insta-selling for 5m each.

Took me 6 hours to get the ores, smelt, and smith the set.

That's 833k/hr.

*disgusted*

~Fooled by Jagex, once again.~

I love this game, I do, otherwise I wouldn't play it, but man they make it difficult to continue doing so.


Six hours? Yikes, you're doing it incredibly slow.

I can do a full set in less than four.
The Steelweaver

World Guardian #835
Maxed 9/7/2016
120 Smithing 1/4/2019

23-Jan-2019 13:37:47

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