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Comp cape without reaper fix

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Nex is Life
Nov Gold Premier Club Member 2016

Nex is Life

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Daibhi said:
If by participation it is literally just participation (which means completion is not required; just the act of participating in any form - otherwise it's completion and not participation Ref. the whole dance we had around the literal definition of the word completionist but just change it to those words) that sounds like a reasonable compromise.
No, don't take participation to literally mean participation prize else getting 10xp would qualify you for max
You'll get it when you deserve it.

08-Jan-2019 20:19:48

Daibhi
Sep Member 2017

Daibhi

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Nex is Life said:
Daibhi said:
If by participation it is literally just participation (which means completion is not required; just the act of participating in any form - otherwise it's completion and not participation Ref. the whole dance we had around the literal definition of the word completionist but just change it to those words) that sounds like a reasonable compromise.
No, don't take participation to literally mean participation prize else getting 10xp would qualify you for max


Ok maybe I worded that a bit too broadly, that wasn't what I meant. By participation I suppose I meant something along the lines of trying content but not necessarily completing it to the extent that uh.. is currently required by how the comp system works right now - does that make more sense?

If it worked like that, it could also act as a teaser which could potentially tempt existing players into exploring said content on a deeper level which would lead them up the ladder to T2 and T2 could do the same for whatever/however T3 would work? Although I'm not sure if T3 is meant to be "ridiculous" in comparison to T2.

08-Jan-2019 20:33:36 - Last edited on 08-Jan-2019 20:37:34 by Daibhi

Reaper Ghost
Nov Gold Premier Club Member 2016

Reaper Ghost

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To be constructive, i do agree there are some improvements that could be made to the situation.

I can understand different types of players wanting different capes, and this is fine, make a mini-games cape, a skills cape, a combat cape ect.

I really do think there should be a sick end game cape for combatants that have achieved the final boss, or the insane final boss titles, and to be honest, could even have better combat stats than the the standard comp cape which requires only one kill on each boss. However these same achievements when a player also has a comp cape in addition to the final boss or insane final boss title, should make the comp cape better, even slightly better than the fb, or ifb stand alone capes, because that just makes sense.

I also agree that a trimmed comp cape should be distinguished from a standard comp cape. To be honest, it should have some slightly improved stats over the standard comp cape, nothing over the top, but should definitely have some slightly better combat stats and a few other bonuses more than the standard comp cape. These players worked hard to achieve even more and they deserve the reward of their accomplishment, something a little more than a cosmetic ......(in my opinion downgrade, i like white stream better than gold) and bragging rights.

That does not however mean that players that have done EVERYTHING deserve to have their cape nerfed to appease these other types of players. The completionist cape should get all bonuses of all the different types of cape that are so chosen to be added (given the completionist player has aquired the reqs of these other capes.)

I also see your argument that new content isn't readily added to the comp cape, and i somewhat agree it should be. My answer, an amnesty period. Give all comp, trimm, fb, and ifb players 3 months to catch up new content, before having their cape or title stripped from them. After this period if they haven't completed it take the cape or title away then.
Death is not the opposite of life, but in fact a part of it.

May Guthix bring you balance.

09-Jan-2019 03:48:36

Daibhi
Sep Member 2017

Daibhi

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Nex is Life said:

Here is what Jagex might use to determine what belongs on what cape -this came from Mod Breezy
T1: participate in all content
T2: complete all content (unless it's ridiculous)
T3: complete all content (even if it's ridiculous)


Additionally, it was stated that arguments of "Remove Reaper because RS pvm is too hard" aren't constructive.


To add on to what I already said the other day now that I've sat on this since then. I do think this is making the situation more complicated than it needs to be as how the system works currently is fine - but the issue is that what determines which reqs. are assigned to what cape does seem to be confused, somewhat.

Honestly, I do think standard comp should revolve around reqs. that are typical things which are already on y'know.. the basic things like bones to peaches, livid farm, completing a few quest/side quest/optional additional tasks after quests related content etc. and can be completed by a single player.

Granted the arguement "Well.. that's what MQC is for" is completely true and what I'm saying isn't to make it a sort of "MQC-lite" version, but by doing so it gives a reason to add reasonable future content achievements etc.on release to standard comp's reqs. which goes beyond "regular" play.

To give the last bit some attention, I don't think anyone is honestly saying to scrap reaper from the game entirely (or at least to remove it as a whole from the comp system; including trim) as it is a valid achievement.But to suggest moving it to trimmed's reqs. is a reasonable proposal due to its blatant difficulty considering the majority of the playerbase just pay a group to give them the kills for it - thus devaluing it.

By moving it to trim, only those who are dedicated to go that extra mile will do it which, as a result, will reduce how many pay just to complete and will give added value to trimmed completionist as an added bonus.

09-Jan-2019 09:31:00

Daibhi
Sep Member 2017

Daibhi

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Reaper Ghost said:

I also agree that a trimmed comp cape should be distinguished from a standard comp cape. To be honest, it should have some slightly improved stats over the standard comp cape, nothing over the top, but should definitely have some slightly better combat stats and a few other bonuses more than the standard comp cape.

These players worked hard to achieve even more and they deserve the reward of their accomplishment, something a little more than a cosmetic ....(in my opinion downgrade, i like white stream better than gold) and bragging rights.

That does not however mean that players that have done EVERYTHING deserve to have their cape nerfed to appease these other types of players. The completionist cape should get all bonuses of all the different types of cape that are so chosen to be added (given the completionist player has aquired the reqs of these other capes.)


I don't think anyone can argue that trimmed completionist shouldn't reward a player for achieving everything required for it so keeping this in mind should, in theory, still reward these players even if this rework does move a few things around.

I do think that considering trimmed comp is the next one up and demands so much more than the standard version in comparison (although both have the same level of difficulty currently), it should reflect that and reward those who currently own and will eventuallly own it.

As for the trim, I also think that (if you unlock the trimmed completionist) it should give you the option to switch between the gold and white trim on a whim depending on the players preference - afterall if you own trimmed that means you have done standard comp, so why not?

If someone owns a standard "completionist" cape, they aren't a completionist, the only player who is an actual completionist is the one who owns the trimmed completionist cape. I don't think trimmed comp owners have anything to worry about, it's more standard.

09-Jan-2019 09:43:23

Nex is Life
Nov Gold Premier Club Member 2016

Nex is Life

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Daibhi said:
But why would everything need to be completed by a single player? Group content is as much a part of the game as other content. Don't like it? Don't comp.

Why should Reaper be on trim? (that is what people who never plan on trimming say because they want reg comp)
Ridiculous in the context of the proposed categorisation above referred to time investment. A speedrun of Reaper would take about 3 hours.
PvM in RS isn't difficult. In terms of time investment, it doesn't take long to learn a boss compared to the amount of time you spend skilling or questing or getting other unlocks. People who complain about Reaper haven't spent 100 hours trying to Solak or whatever, else they would have it.
Comp is an endgame cape for endgame players. It's aimed at people who have maxed combat levels, access to curses, overloads, mammoths/titans, etc from getting max levels and quest points. And with their levels players are able to obtain gear - at least T88 weapons and decent armour. And with all that in mind there isn't a real reason players who are almost comped can't do Reaper.

A majority of the comped players bought kills - gonna need a source on this. Oh wait you don't have one.
People can buy DG and a lot did. Guess it should be moved to trim too?
If anything the whole leeching thing is an argument that more specific PvM requirements should be made. I brought up using a set of the new PvM achievements but that doesn't look like it will happen. Mod Jack said he wanted time investment (in each area of the game inlcuding PvM), not challenges, and we might end up with Final Boss on trim instead. Which is stupid since FB is just arbitrary kcs. But hey most people won't be able to buy 100 leeches.

At the end of the day it is people's choices to leech kills. They could learn the boss but they are lazy. I agree that leechable/massable bosses devalues the achievement, but scrapping requirements or "moving to trim" devalues comp more.
You'll get it when you deserve it.

09-Jan-2019 11:21:59

Daibhi
Sep Member 2017

Daibhi

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Nex is Life said:


Why not? It is a "completionist" cape is it not? This is why the name of it is divisive on its own because it acts like a carousel. Standard comp is the perfect candidate to be the next step in a players progress playing the game after maxing and then trimmed can be the one those who want to go further can move on to.

My reasoning is trimmed should be viewed as the end goal and reflect that in its reward(s?) to the player, something that would entice standard comp owners to consider moving up instead of settling for standard.

Difficulty in PVM is debatable and I'd say I'm a good example of it, for.. "normal" people with no issues? It's a case of learning how it works, remembering it - rinse and repeat. Whereas for situations for people like myself or worse, these aren't as easy as you think they are; for example go to anything arraxor and above - that's already pushing the limits, with my particular issues having a lot to focus on, remember etc. at the same time is mentally overwhelming and will/does cause me to almost shutdown (Broken home actually done this to me, in fact, and that's a quest, just because how memory demanding it is).

But I can see your side of that topic even though it doesn't apply to me as it probably is easy enough for most who haven't issues, so it's a tricky thing to negogiate without making it painfully easy and simplistic.

I meet most of those reqs. you listed, doesn't change what I said above though no matter how much I'd love that to be the case. Of course I don't have an "official" source, I didn't claim to have one that's just how I talk - look at Solak, everyone was climbing to pay for the kill or at least waiting until they could.

People buying DG are just being lazy, it isn't the same level of difficulty as reaper so no I don't think that. True, people can pay if they want but I do think that kind of defeats the point of something that's coined "completionist".

09-Jan-2019 15:00:00

Cuteyspoon

Cuteyspoon

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Lush Snow said:
Draco Burnz said:
Konota said:
Why 'fix' something that is already perfectly fine?
It'l probably be changed due to the amount of lazyness that people seem to have, but just sayin'.


Exactly.


Because the keep comp after 100 comp reqs idea allows more freedom of individual choice, and makes it accomplishable for noobs, while allowing the bar to be raised for trim, and thus pleasing everyone. whilst your status quo does not.


support, always nice to see people being given credit for good ideas and them not getting jagexed as usual.

17-Jan-2019 04:11:50

Lord Kylle
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2012

Lord Kylle

Posts: 1,488Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
There are so many suggestions out there now :D

I like Mod Jack mentioning that we could remove extra cape features from being comp only, and make it addons to any capes, or at least skillcapes+max+comp+ any new cape (if a reaper and/or skilling cape is added)

Spirit cape:
- Dungeoneering reward, now with an extra buy option to add the effect to a cape you bring to the shop.
Ava's device:
- We could use Shattered Worlds as a place to use anima to unlock ava's device as an addon to a cape you bring to the shop. Or have Ava herself take payment to add it to a cape.
Ardougne cloak teleports and thieving effect:
- Well the cloak is a bit about thieving, so why not use the thieving guild shop, have a buy option to add the cape effect to a cape you bring to the shop.
Skeletal horror teleport:
- Should stay comp cape tele, but also put it on MQC
Restore summon points daily:
- Well put it on comp and maybe reaper cape if that gets added
Life bonus on cape:
- Make a buy option from ports, where you can pay materials to add reefwalker cape to a cape you bring to ports --- maybe only an option for the best capes

24-Jan-2019 15:42:55 - Last edited on 24-Jan-2019 15:45:56 by Lord Kylle

Nevorchi
Jan Member 2015

Nevorchi

Posts: 402Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'll be the one to say it,

Folks like [insert name here] (so I don't get accused of player shaming), are the main reason why people don't like to get into high lvl group bossing.

People are toxic, ESPECIALLY elitist.

A comp cape is a reflection of INDIVIDUAL achievement, which means that you shouldn't have to rely on others for the cape.

Had it been a group achievement cape then I could understand, but thank goodness reaper was removed. Think about the fact that solak leeches are bring sold for nearly 90m... People would rather pay 90m to avoid this content than to actually learn with teams because high lvl pvmers have become that damn toxic lol.

Let that settle in. I'm not here to debate, just sharing my opinion.

25-Jun-2019 15:40:29

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