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A bit more transparency

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FisherGaming

FisherGaming

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This isn't really a suggestion for Old School Runescape content. This is probably better suited in the General Discussion subforum.

That said...

G o z z said:
could we please get an update as to what's happening? I get that on one of the Twitter accounts they mentioned that there were issues, but could we get an actual update?
What sort of update do you need, exactly?

We already know what happened. They already dealt with the problem. What more are you expecting?

G o z z said:
Instakilling half the players, only being able to get a few people back into the game, healing stage players to full HP and prayer mid fight, etc. are all massive issues and I think that it'd be nice to be more transparent
Transparent in what regard?

Are you wanting to know the exact line of code they forgot to close a bracket on that caused a bunch of errors, or something? Shit went awry.

G o z z said:
just show a bit of respect to the community. A lot of people took the week off work to play the tournament and then get treated very disrespectfully.
How are unintended errors like this disrespectful?

Jagex went out of their way to try and resolve the issue for as many people affected as possible. They're simply asking that people like you don't grab your pitchforks and burn them alive for something that wasn't supposed to happen; they're asking for your patience and understanding. That's not disrespectful.

What's disrespectful is the amount of vitriol that they received on social media over this issue.

G o z z said:
A clan held down Shilo Village the entire tournament and the Jagex pretty much screwed them over.
Imagine my shock when a gamemode that is meant to be about individual skill doesn't reward a group of people trying to screw everyone else over.

A clan got screwed? Good. Clans ruin DMM.
I'll keep score from now on.
A: 3 | M: -1 | Tr: 0 | Tu: -2 |

31-Mar-2019 03:52:36

FisherGaming

FisherGaming

Posts: 5,103Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
G o z z said:
1) I don't think the FMods actually care about the difference between content suggestions and suggestions. But thanks for the suggestion...
They do. It's rather important that suggestions posted here are actually about content in the game.

This isn't really a suggestion about the game, at all. You're making suggestions regarding community interaction, which is more to do with the company or its staff, rather than the game or its content.

G o z z said:
Please link me to the announcement, news post, or forum post about what happened.
Why do you need a post regarding this?

Is it not enough that the issue was dealt with?

G o z z said:
Did they get all players back into the game at all?
From what we've been told, not every player affected was dealt with yet.

G o z z said:
Did they state what is happening with the prize money in any news posts?
Nope.

G o z z said:
Well actually telling the community what happened instead of lying would be one solution, but I guess you're okay with Jagex lying?
When did they lie about this? What are you talking about?

G o z z said:
Coming up with solutions that screw over your community = respectful?
I'd say the errors that occurred are more responsible for screwing over the community than Jagex's attempts to fix them.

How exactly is Jagex trying to fix this "screwing over their community?"

Also, I never said it was respectful; I said it wasn't disrespectful. No one at Jagex has come out and said "shut up, morons. No cares about you whiny losers and your endless river of tears. We messed up. Deal with it."

However, they've been the recipient of such comments.
I'll keep score from now on.
A: 3 | M: -1 | Tr: 0 | Tu: -2 |

31-Mar-2019 04:18:08

FisherGaming

FisherGaming

Posts: 5,103Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
G o z z said:
I'm not sure what your issue is with people being upset over losing an entire week of grinding just because Jagex doesn't do QA testing.
I have no issue with people being upset about that.

It's perfectly reasonable that people are upset over this pretty colossal mistake. However, that doesn't warrant personal attacks or disrespectful comments.

G o z z said:
So you're now being disrespectful toward clans, just as Jagex has been. Congratulations.
Jagex wasn't disrespectful to clans at any point.

Not catering to them or their attempts to ruin the gamemode for everyone else is not "disrespect."

Jagex won't be disrespectful to clans, but I have no issue saying that they are the primary reason DMM is horrible. Most people agree with me. Clans are bad for DMM. Any and all attempts by clans to ruin DMM for other people being thwarted is a GOOD THING, whether the clans like it or not.

I don't care if they took a week out of their lives to ruin the fun for everyone else and their efforts were wasted. I feel good about that.

A clan of people tried to screw everyone else over and Jagex said "not happening?" Good.
I'll keep score from now on.
A: 3 | M: -1 | Tr: 0 | Tu: -2 |

31-Mar-2019 04:22:23

FisherGaming

FisherGaming

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G o z z said:
Hi clans, we understand that you played within the rules. We understand that you held a certain area of the game to increase your chances of winning. But sorry, we didn't do any QA testing and then we made everyone on equal footing despite people starting out with different gear, stats, prayers.
Hello, clans. We understand that you're so bad at PvP you can't win in a 1v1 so you have to sabotage others' chances by teaming up against them in massively unfair fights despite the tournament ultimately only being won by a single person and blocking them from entering important areas vital to obtaining useful PvP Prayers.

We understand that this is actually a tournament meant to be played by individuals but is ruined by clans making it near impossible to stay competitive. We know this is the kind of gameplay you prefer because you'd have absolutely no chance of winning if you played fairly.

Fortunately, most of the community doesn't like you and thinks you ruin the gamemode, so we're more than happy to bypass your efforts to ruin everyone else's fun and sabotage a competitive tournament.

Hopefully you understand have absolutely no valid leg to stand on to complain about this, because ultimately we are making it more fair by giving everyone an equal footing in what is meant to be a competitive tournament won through skill, not through numbers.

Also, we're sure you're aware this is our game and a tournament hosted and run by us, so we can make whatever changes we like, and just because you played within the rules doesn't mean we're doing anything wrong by fixing the problems you've caused this gamemode and the community.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

G o z z said:
Absolutely not screwing over that clan. Thanks for the insight, FisherGaming.
A clan trying to screw other overs gets screwed over. It's a good thing.

I have no sympathy for them, honestly.
I'll keep score from now on.
A: 3 | M: -1 | Tr: 0 | Tu: -2 |

31-Mar-2019 05:03:18

FisherGaming

FisherGaming

Posts: 5,103Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
G o z z said:
Your argument is legitimately that you dislike clans and think that DMMT is a solo tournament
No, my argument is that most people dislike clans and DMM is a solo tournament.

There's a reason there's only one winner. It's not like an entire clan wins DMM; it's a single person.

G o z z said:
it's fine for Jagex to allow clans to spend a week straight playing inline with the rules and spirit of the game
Within the rules, yes. Within the spirit of the gamemode, no.

It was perfectly within the rules to AFK for 6 hours at NMZ, but they still fixed it. You tend to call updates like that something... I forget what it is...

"Integrity issue?" Something like that?

G o z z said:
it also makes it fine for Jagex to decrease some people's stats and gear but increase other's stats and gear?
No, it's not fine. As I said, people are perfectly justified in being upset that this tournament (and just about every DMM tournament before it) has been a huge fuck up.

The reason they had to do any of that stuff is because of a giant mistake that killed many of the finalists. The ones whose stats were adjusted were the ones who were killed by the error.

G o z z said:
Let me guess, you were also okay with Jagex restarting a 1v1 where a stage player was getting destroyed but then randomly had his HP and prayer set to full and was then teleported out?
Uh... would you prefer the fight carry on after the person's HP and Prayer was randomly set to max?

Of course the 1v1 needed to be restarted.

G o z z said:
Clear that you're trolling to try and get this thread closed.
Nope. I don't troll.

I think the thread should be moved to a more appropriate forum, but I'm fine with continuing the discussion. No need to lock the thread.
I'll keep score from now on.
A: 3 | M: -1 | Tr: 0 | Tu: -2 |

31-Mar-2019 05:49:20

FisherGaming

FisherGaming

Posts: 5,103Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
G o z z said:
So the same argument except you also think that because people dislike clans this makes it acceptable.
No, what makes it acceptable is that it objectively is a tournament of individuals, and efforts to curb clans is a good thing for a tournament that is designed to be played and won by individuals.

People disliking clans isn't what justifies the actions; what justifies the actions is that a clan of people blocking off an entire section of the map to prevent individuals from competing is clearly not within the spirit of the gamemode.

G o z z said:
They would have made all areas single way combat if what you are claiming to be true actually was true.
Or maybe they're trying to compromise by allowing clans to operate, but making it impossible for them to ruin the gamemode for everyone else

Clans can still group up, gang up on people, sit around in multi-combat zones, but they can't block off vital parts of content from everyone else.

Also what do you mean "if" what I am claiming is actually true? There is no "if," buddy. What I'm saying is true.

G o z z said:
They've rolled back the servers previously.
Literally once in OSRS history, and that's because it would've been permanent irreparable damage dealt to the main game's economy if they hadn't.

Even then, the rollback set people back to different periods because of how their rollback system works. A similar rollback wouldn't have worked well in DMM.

G o z z said:
They've also given ironmen back their items and put people's stats back to what they were
I don't know about the Ironmen thing, but people have their stats reverted was because pures had their stats ruined by a bug... ON THE MAIN GAME.

It was pretty easy to set people's stats back because most of those people were only asking to set back to 1 Defense.
I'll keep score from now on.
A: 3 | M: -1 | Tr: 0 | Tu: -2 |

31-Mar-2019 06:42:02

FisherGaming

FisherGaming

Posts: 5,103Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
G o z z said:
So they could have delayed the tournament rather than screwing over people
All the problems are what screwed people over, not Jagex's attempts to fix them.

Gamebreaking bug kills half of DMM finalists!
Jagex tries to fix it!
JAGEX IS SCREWING PEOPLE OVER INSTEAD OF JUST DELAYING THE TOURNAMENT!

Uh... what?

G o z z said:
So those that were screwed over by Jagex QA testing got screwed over again by Jagex?
Yes. As usual, DMM was a total disaster.

But that disaster isn't because Jagex is trying to fix it; it's because Jagex didn't beta test any of their changes.

G o z z said:
But considering the stage player was going to lose, why would they restart it?
Because he didn't lose, even if he was going to.

His stats got set to max. Of course they have to restart the right. What is the alternative? Let them keep fighting while the player's stats are set to max? That would be far worse.

Obviously his stats shouldn't have been set to max in the first place, but they were, so the question is what they should do about it at that point.

G o z z said:
Why not restart with the supplies they had when the glitch occured and the stats at the levels they were?
Because Jagex didn't have that information, maybe. I don't really know.

Another thing to consider is that it's quite different to be experiencing that fight live and to have to react quickly than it is to have time to think about and analyze what you should do.

If you dropped them back into the fight with the exact same stats and supplies, the player who would've lost might have time to react when they wouldn't have in the first place.

G o z z said:
Would be much fairer than saying, hey, we know the stage player was going to lose
But you don't know that.

A fight isn't over until it's over. Combat is RNG based.
I'll keep score from now on.
A: 3 | M: -1 | Tr: 0 | Tu: -2 |

31-Mar-2019 06:50:47

FisherGaming

FisherGaming

Posts: 5,103Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
G o z z said:
Oopsie woopsie we made a bwig mwistakie!
Nice meme. Not a valid argument, though.

G o z z said:
Incorrect. One more troll comment and I'm ignoring you in this thread too.
I've not made a single troll comment.

Learn what trolling is, please.
I'll keep score from now on.
A: 3 | M: -1 | Tr: 0 | Tu: -2 |

31-Mar-2019 06:51:31

FisherGaming

FisherGaming

Posts: 5,103Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
G o z z said:
Show me where they say that it is for individuals, please.
https://www.runescape.com/oldschool/dmi-terms

"The last player left alive on the Deadman Competition Server after 8pm GMT on Saturday 30th March 2019 will be announced the winner and receive $20,000 - subject to anti cheating checks."

It doesn't say "the last clan left alive." It says "the last player left alive."

G o z z said:
I'm not sure I understand how you can possibly think letting a clan play how they were and then just erasing all their effort is acceptable. But please do try and explain it.
For the same reason it's acceptable to ban bots and delete all the items they have on them or in their banks.

Obviously being part of a clan isn't against the rules, which is why I said they compromised. They don't want clans ruining DMM, so they limit their ability to do so, but still allow them to exist.

G o z z said:
What they did was both in the spirit of the game
It's within the spirit of the game to get together with a huge clan of people and block off an entire quest area so people can't compete fairly?

Yeah, no.

G o z z said:
Because people don't like that isn't reason enough for Jagex to screw over the clan
The only reason Jagex needs is that it's their game and they can do whatever the hell they want.

However, the fact the vast majority of players don't like clans in DMM is a pretty good reason to make such a change.

G o z z said:
Show me where they said that they did this because they think what the clan was doing was wrong.
Show me where that's what I said.

I specifically stated that what the clans were doing was within the rules.
I'll keep score from now on.
A: 3 | M: -1 | Tr: 0 | Tu: -2 |

31-Mar-2019 07:14:02

FisherGaming

FisherGaming

Posts: 5,103Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
G o z z said:
Was it only once? I thought there was a rollback for the twisted bow AND the max cash stack drop glitch? Are you lying again, FisherGaming?
Ah, you're right. They did rollback the servers 20 minutes for the max cash stack bug. My mistake. I thought they had only temporarily disabled the servers and banned people who abused it. I wasn't aware they had done a rollback for that one.

Learn what lying means, though. Lying requires deliberate deceit. I wasn't mistaken, not lying.
I'll keep score from now on.
A: 3 | M: -1 | Tr: 0 | Tu: -2 |

31-Mar-2019 07:15:34 - Last edited on 31-Mar-2019 07:15:56 by FisherGaming

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