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Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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NeuralNet said:
The guberment is coming, the guberment is coming :O

http://www.pcgamer.com/belgium-says-loot-boxes-are-gambling-wants-them-banned-in-europe


You got trolled. Belgium government has never said it is gambling and they never said they are going to do anything all. You can go to the same website and find another article correcting that April Fools mistake. I guess the Belgium government has probably given their editor in chief a wake up call. ;)

You may also wonder what happened to the UK Parliament Petition thread? What doesn't anybody bump it up anymore? The simple answer is UK has already responded a couple of weeks ago... and you know the result already. Sorry...
NOTHING

26-Nov-2017 18:20:37 - Last edited on 26-Nov-2017 18:22:08 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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NeuralNet said:
Dilbert2001 said:
NeuralNet said:
The guberment is coming, the guberment is coming :O

http://www.pcgamer.com/belgium-says-loot-boxes-are-gambling-wants-them-banned-in-europe


You got trolled. Belgium government has never said it is gambling and they never said they are going to do anything all. You can go to the same website and find another article correcting that April Fools mistake. I guess the Belgium government has probably given their editor in chief a wake up call. ;)

You may also wonder what happened to the UK Parliament Petition thread? What doesn't anybody bump it up anymore? The simple answer is UK has already responded a couple of weeks ago... and you know the result already. Sorry...
NOTHING


Still doesn't bode well when high level politicians are calling for gambling MTX to be banned. They didn't redact the quotes because they are real! And other gov'ts are joining in now. The fact that politicians want to get involved in such a specific thing is crazy.


That completely nonsense. Belgium has not banned anything at all, otherwise nobody can put lockboxes in their games there but why are they still showing in every game?

Who are the "high level politicians" you meant? Most countries allow their residents to file petitions and some promise a response when they reach a certain count. That't it. Nothing special.

29-Nov-2017 15:19:53

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Runelower said:
Another issues for rs is it was mainly played by little children mostly, and introducing predatory MTX practices in such an environment is immoral, at the very least.


You probably don't want to hear it... but the most prominent rating and watchdog agencies like ESRB and UK Gambling Commission already declared what you called "predatory MTX practices" as 100% legal and not gambling at all.

In fact, UK Gambling Commission flat out stated it is the responsibilities of the parents to educate their children if they think these practices are "predatory". Translation? Nothing is wrong except that those parents think it is wrong then they are the ones who are responsible for what their children do. They are the ones to be blamed themselves. ;)

29-Nov-2017 16:08:44

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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"As we have said recently, Treasure Hunter, and MTX is essential to maintaining our development teams and the content they produce...

We’re working to improve how Treasure Hunter (and any other micro-transactions) work, in line with feedback from our community...

I understand that you might not agree with this, and thanks for asking pertinent questions. I hope you can see where we’re coming from with the above responses." - Jmod Kelvin's response from the New Charity Initiative thread.

Sorry if you don't agree with Jmods but nothing you can do with MTX and actually you can do more with MTX now since you can not only pay for MTX, you can choose to donate more. :)

17-Dec-2017 17:56:37 - Last edited on 17-Dec-2017 18:17:09 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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I have heard some Hawaiian politician hiding in the bathroom playing online games and paying with MTX with the money he and his swindler friends scammed some "smart" online game players since "bio happened" to him when he once said he was going to do "something" but ended up asking the game industry to self-regulate themselves... ;)

Oops... Bio happend gain to MTX hating "politicians" again... Too bad but just live with it. Nothing you can do except paying if you want. :)

19-Jan-2018 20:21:40 - Last edited on 19-Jan-2018 20:33:59 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Runelower said:
Loot Boxes are absolute shit in terms of PR right now, yet so many people defend this shit here on RSOF, how so?


Good question which is actually answered repeatedly by the players themselves who hate TH but instead of quitting, they bought Primier Club memberships year after year.

With or without TH, players will still pay. Only idiots will remove TH to make themselves less money. :D:D

If TH is really "bad" for PR, why do these people who think it is "bad" PR still pay for Primier priviledge in a "bad" PR game? Does it make them part of the "bad" PR? :D:D

03-Feb-2018 23:12:36 - Last edited on 03-Feb-2018 23:21:34 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Runelower said:
Loot Boxes are absolute shit in terms of PR right now, yet so many people defend this shit here on RSOF, how so?


Good question which is actually answered repeatedly by the players themselves who hate TH but instead of quitting, they bought Primier Club memberships year after year.

With or without TH, players will still pay. Only idiots will remove TH to make themselves less money. :D:D

If TH is really "bad" for PR, why do these people who think it is "bad" PR still pay for Primier priviledge in a "bad" PR game? Does it make them part of the "bad" PR? :D:D

Actually a lot of players have boycotted premier club this year and have not renewed their membership when their last premier club expired.

Secondly, the gold injected into the game through TH actually causes inflation. Treasure Hunter actually makes everyone earn LESS money, as gold has less value.


I read these "boycott" things in all kinds of game forums but when their financial reports came year after year, there have never been any sight of boycott or girlcott. :P

I meant Jagex would be idiots to remove TH to make them less money, not the virtual "money" that has no real world value and the players can't even own IRL.

04-Feb-2018 04:22:56

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
I read these "boycott" things in all kinds of game forums but when their financial reports came year after year, there have never been any sight of boycott or girlcott. :P

I meant Jagex would be idiots to remove TH to make them less money, not the virtual "money" that has no real world value and the players can't even own IRL.


Well this is runescape we're talking about, not other games. Either way, we won't see the fruits of the supposed boycotts this year until the fiscal year is over and it's 2019. No point making blind speculation and unsupported claims.


Aha! So you realize it is useless to make "blind speculation and unsupported claims", right?

Jagex is the ones that knows. They are the ones pocketing the money. They run TH. Players play games and pay for TH if they want to., or not if they don't want to. Really simple. :D

04-Feb-2018 04:48:50

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04-Feb-2018 15:57:39

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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LOL. Why do all these people still play this game and use this forums if they think this game is "dying"? Or wait... they said the said "dying" thing 10 years ago. ;)

And you know why this game is actually not "dying"? That's simple. It is because they continue to make money from these "dying" players. :D

04-Feb-2018 17:13:16 - Last edited on 04-Feb-2018 17:14:19 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Draco Burnz said:
Miu said:
Actually a lot of players have boycotted premier club this year and have not renewed their membership when their last premier club expired.


Still doesnt prove how its bad PR?


I guess to these "a lot of players" the "P" in PR means private to themselves. But it is obvious this kind of "bad PR" TH or lockbox equivalence is hardly "bad" to the PUBLIC sector or else they won't sell.

05-Feb-2018 06:21:44

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
I guess to these "a lot of players" the "P" in PR means private to themselves. But it is obvious this kind of "bad PR" TH or lockbox equivalence is hardly "bad" to the PUBLIC sector or else they won't sell.


PR, referring to the public, as in the people at large, not just runescape players. It's already known most of the RS community will lap up whatever Jagex gives them. New players? Not so much.

You've been unable to refute anything, just arguing semantics when you don't have data. Funny how you claim to be against blind speculation, when you've now gone even below that and are just trying to weasel your way around the information that proves, that, yes, lootboxes are bad PR.

Miu said:
Miu said:
https://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/features/theres-no-such-thing-as-a-good-loot-box-or-microtransaction-w508742

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/09/loot-boxes-have-reached-a-new-low-with-forza-7s-pay-to-earn-option/

https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/257387-gamers-hate-buying-loot-boxes-games-using


You also have to realize that membership profits exceed TH profits.

public sentiment is at an all time low for lootboxes.



Fun fact: The week of Nov 12, 2017, was the lowest average population week of RS3 in history. The Friday of the very same week, was the release of Battlefront 2, the game that sparked lootbox controversy worldwide and has spurred on lawmakers to try to take on these lootboxes.

MTX content like that has a measurable effect on the playerbase, as data has proven.


I didn't speculate and I never even mentioned anything about "blind speculation", let alone endorse or oppose it. Somebody mentioned it, perhaps it was you? It won't matter to me who anyway.

I only used real data. There is no sign of "bad PR". :)

07-Feb-2018 01:17:12

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
I didn't speculate and I never even mentioned anything about "blind speculation", let alone endorse or oppose it. Somebody mentioned it, perhaps it was you? It won't matter to me who anyway.

I only used real data. There is no sign of "bad PR".


Only used real data? You haven't used any data at all. Meanwhile I've provided several sources of bad PR at large in response to lootboxes.

Dilbert2001 said:
So you realize it is useless to make "blind speculation and unsupported claims", right?


Of course I can't use any REAL DATA because there is no such thing on the invisible "bad PR". Can somebody show me where it is please. :D

07-Feb-2018 01:26:16 - Last edited on 07-Feb-2018 01:29:08 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
I didn't speculate and I never even mentioned anything about "blind speculation", let alone endorse or oppose it. Somebody mentioned it, perhaps it was you? It won't matter to me who anyway.

I only used real data. There is no sign of "bad PR".


Only used real data? You haven't used any data at all. Meanwhile I've provided several sources of bad PR at large in response to lootboxes.

Dilbert2001 said:
So you realize it is useless to make "blind speculation and unsupported claims", right?


Of course I can't use any REAL DATA because there is no such thing on the invisible "bad PR". Can somebody show me where it is please. :D


So you didn't use data. Thanks for making that clear. You may as well be arguing that "PR" doesn't even exist.

We should remove TH just in case that nasty bad PR thing is real though ;)


Do not twist words. You never show any data that anybody can use, unless you are telling all our 260 mil RS players that only "wise" players can see it. ;)

07-Feb-2018 01:40:35

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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LOL. Who or what is "fun fact"? And how is that "public"? How he, she or it got this "data"?

How come "bad PR" every year actually gave Jagex higher subscription, revenue and profits year after year?

07-Feb-2018 02:08:59 - Last edited on 07-Feb-2018 02:10:34 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
LOL. Who or what is "fun fact"? And how is that "public"? How he, she or it got this "data"?



I thought this was pretty standard knowledge but I guess not everyone knows where to find data.
http://www.misplaceditems.com/rs_tools/graph/

Original message details are unavailable.
How it works

Every five minutes, a perl script contacts the front page of Runescape and scrapes the displayed number of online players. This is the total number of players in both versions of the game.

A second request scrapes the number of online OSRS players. The difference between the OSRS and total players is the number of EOC players

The data is stored in a database for later retrieval and analysis.


Dilbert2001 said:
How come lower population every year actually gave Jagex higher subscription, year after year?
Rising membership fees, premiere membership. Also, remember, that number only takes into consideration payers,
not
active players.


LOL. You don't get the point. Again... WHO the hell is that whatever source you pulled up? I can put up anything that shows Jagex is 9000% better "PR" than a few years ago but then somebody will just ask "WHO is dilbert2001 and how does that graph show bad PR? Where did he pull that data out?"

Bad PR? Why do people still pay more? And really only revenue and profits show good or bad "PR" to the investors, their employees and players who want to play this game because money keeps this game going. :)

BTW, perhaps you should tell that "bad PR" source to use a domain name that sounds more like a game related site to make more people to think it is "good PR" to believe in he/she/it.

07-Feb-2018 02:27:12 - Last edited on 07-Feb-2018 02:47:13 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
LOL. You don't get the point. Again... WHO the hell is that whatever source you pulled up? I can put up anything that shows Jagex is 9000% better "PR" than a few years ago but then somebody will just ask "WHO is dilbert2001 and how does that graph show bad PR? Where did he pull that data out?"

Bad PR? Why do people still pay more? And really only revenue and profits shows good or bad "PR" to the investors, their employees and players who want to play this game because money keeps this game going. :)


??? It's a bot that scrapes the population data off of Jagex's own sites every 5 minutes and comes up with accurate numbers.

It's data. It's accurate. It explains in clear terms how the data was derived. You're now engaging in an appeal to authority, which is fallacious in nature. First you say there's no data. Then you say there's no real data. Then just because YOU don't know where the data is coming from, it must be wrong? (hint, even JMODS have commented on the site. It's a well known tool.)

If you want to redefining PR to yourself over and over again, feel free. But I'm not going to spoonfeed data to someone that is unwilling or unable to comprehend it.


Appeal to "authority"? WHO is the "authority"?

And I don't care who want to define or redefine his/her/its own "PR". The fact remains there are more good PR money going to Jagex years over years.

07-Feb-2018 02:59:00

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Appeal to "authority"? WHO is the "authority"?
You doubted the veracity of the data because of the "lack of authority." An ad hominem appeal to a lack of authority would be a more appropriate term for your fallacious argument. But you don't seem like a native english speaker, let alone latin, so I didn't want to overwhelm you.

Dilbert2001 said:
And I don't care who want to define or redefine his/her/its own "PR". The fact remains there are more good PR money going to Jagex years over years.


See? You're making unsubstantiated claims again. We don't have the data for 2017 yet, so your claim that there's "more good PR money" is, once again, blind speculation. Meanwhile, we DO have data that players are opting to play OSRS over RS3. One of the major benefits of OSRS is less emphasis on micotransactions. They do have bonds, but they don't have weekly Treasure Hunter promotions blotting out the sun.


Your "data" showed the "bad PR" population drop started from 2013 through 2016 but yet already revealed REAL WORLD DATA showed good PR revenue and profits rose all through those years.

It is easy to see despite of your "bad PR" claim, it did not affect the good PR people to continue to give Jagex more and more businesses in all those years. :)

07-Feb-2018 03:18:47 - Last edited on 07-Feb-2018 03:24:42 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Your "data" showed the "bad PR" population drop started from 2013 through 2016 but yet already revealed REAL WORLD DATA showed good PR revenue and profits rise all through those years.

It is easy to see despite of your "bad PR" claim, it did not affect the good PR people to continue to give Jagex more and more businesses in all those years. :)


First off, we're discussing the future of the game, not the past.
Secondly, the original PR claim was in reference to gaming as a whole and not Jagex in particular.

Anyway, we don't have the data for 2017's revenue yet, so we can't say for certain. It wouldn't surprise me if 2017 had higher MTX profits than 2016. The pushback against MTX didn't start until after Menaphos.

It's not MTX alone that has culminated ill will against Treasure Hunter - it's the drought of content between June 2017 that has continued even up until today. In order for Treasure Hunter to be considered damaging to the game, we'd have to see membership go up and MTX profits go down for the 2017 report. (Membership going up would be as a consequence of people playing OSRS instead of the MTX ridden RS3.)


Past, now or future, there is no indication whatsoever the kind of "bad PR" you mentioned affected the good PR business success that Jagex enjoyed. If you really have to find a correlation, it only shows the worse PR (again, by your definition) the more positive it affects Jagex's good PR business success.

07-Feb-2018 03:37:53

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Past, now or future, there is no indication whatsoever the kind of "bad PR" you mentioned affected the good PR business success that Jagex enjoyed. If you really have to find a correlation, it only shows the worse PR (again, by your definition) the more positive it affects Jagex's good PR business success.


MTX promotions had gotten so bad and the outrage was so much that even Jagex admitted it was becoming an issue. If all you care about is Jagex's bottom line, feel free to donate all the money you have to them. The issue is that none of that money is coming back into the game. Jagex has RECORD BREAKING PROFITS and yet the content is subpar, consistently.

RS3 had the lowest average players in its history last november. Apparently RS3 dying and OSRS scraping up the majority of the playerbase is good PR according to you.

The point is, even if Treasure Hunter was removed, Jagex would STILL be making enough money to support RS3, the quality of RS3 would increase and would have a healthier playerbase that would be more able to sustain growth. The reason they'd still have enough money is because there are other forms of MTX, like bonds that can be bought on EITHER game.

Right now the playerbase is strangled underneath content developed solely for temporary MTX promotions, while lasting content has been at an all time low.


You need to realize regardless how much you hate MTX and how "bad" (you think) it affects "PR", all businesses strive for the good PR that they can show on their balance sheets to their investors and employees.

The cat that catches the mice is a good cat. The better the balance sheet, the better PR the company is with Wall Street, and the better position they are in Main Street and the eyes of their own employees.

07-Feb-2018 04:00:45

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
You need to realize regardless how much you hate MTX and how "bad" (you think) it affects "PR", all businesses strive for the good PR that they can show on their balance sheets to their investors and employees.

The cat that catches the mice is a good cat. The better the balance sheet, the better PR the company is with Wall Street, and the better position they are in Main Street and the eyes of their own employees.


Do you have a point to all this? Because you're replying to me without even following anything discussed. I don't think you know what PR is, either, given the way you're using it. You're also not using any data to back up your opinions, so I have no clue what you're even on about.


I have used YOUR DATA to show that your claim has no effect or if you really insists actually positively affected their relationship with the people who gave them business from 2013-2016 already.

07-Feb-2018 04:10:09

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
*steps over the last few pages and brings this discussion back to the forefront*

Blackwing said:
Acra said:
Support, I've been a major participant of TH over the years and I'd love to see it gone. However, I don't see it leaving as it generates a lot more revenue than monthly membership cost.

Edit: If they did remove it they'd have to substitute something else and that could be worse.

That's false, actually; Jagex's financial statements prove that membership revenue is much greater (almost 20 million £) than microtransaction revenue, as you can see here:



You can find the statements on the Companies House website, and even though we don't yet have the statement for 2017, you have to remember that the MTX situation was already outright terrible in 2016 and even in 2015, so you can't really argue either that "well maybe they've had a tougher time in 2017", because they already pushed out MTX very aggressively in those previous years. And don't forget that MTX revenue includes TH, Solomon's store and bonds, meaning that out of the MTX revenue you see listed there, only a part of it comes from TH.

So really, they wouldn't have to substitute TH for anything else; they could just go back to Solomon's store additions, which are fine since they're mostly cosmetic AND guaranteed, so they don't prey on gambling addictions.


MTX or subscription money, they were all paid by people with good PR to Jagex. Nothing showed "bad PR" whatsoever. :)

07-Feb-2018 05:00:04

Dilbert2001

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Of course Jagex is selling in game advantages for real money. Of course they are and they should be because they are a multimillion dollars a year business.

Since they started charging players real money through subscription >10 years ago, it has always been such a "greedy" company. But don't blame the "greedy" company only when the members have always been willing to give them membership fee to buy in game advantages over free players.

18-Feb-2018 22:12:02 - Last edited on 18-Feb-2018 22:32:48 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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TH is MTX. SGS is also MTX. Jagex and its employees live on MTX.

TH is optional. SGS is also optional. Nobody is required to pay any real money, or better yet, they can earn gp in game and use TH and SGS for no real money.

To me, there really should not be any argument on SGS vs TH. They are just game features that players can choose to have fun with, or not, with real money, or not.

When rational people have time to sit down and think, they probably will come up with the same conclusion of some Polygon editors. No matter how much they hate MTX., no matter how many 9000 word articles they write to blast MTX, no matter how unfair they think the world including the rating agencies like ESRB are giving them the cold shoulders...
in the end they still realize everybody is allowed to conduct their business, provide their ratings, and play the games the way they like to. The bottom line is they can't change it, so they will just have to live with it.
:D:D:D

20-Mar-2018 17:11:59 - Last edited on 20-Mar-2018 17:14:24 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
TH is MTX. SGS is also MTX. Jagex and its employees live on MTX.
No, they live off membership subscriptions. As already proven in this thread, most of Jagex's revenue is from membership, not MTX. You can remove the MTX from the game and Jagex will still be going strong. You can't remove the game from the MTX and keep earning revenue, can you? ;)


Absolutely not. Jagex's financial reports the past 2 years have been shown many times. They MTX is revenue is growing faster than subscription revenue. Without MTX, Jagex would only be about break even last year. The more important facts looking forward are subscription revenue in MMO is falling rapidly worldwide (e.g. Superdata reported a 9% year to year drop in pay-to-pay revenue from all MMO last month) and financial analysts predicted MTX would be 40-45% of Jagex projected 2019 revenue, up from the current 36%.

Jagex knew it best because THEY OWN THEIR GAMES. Sorry, players don't own anything in Runescape, not even a pixel. :D:D:D

20-Mar-2018 22:21:38 - Last edited on 20-Mar-2018 22:21:51 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Doorknob747 said:
Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
TH is MTX. SGS is also MTX. Jagex and its employees live on MTX.
No, they live off membership subscriptions. As already proven in this thread, most of Jagex's revenue is from membership, not MTX. You can remove the MTX from the game and Jagex will still be going strong. You can't remove the game from the MTX and keep earning revenue, can you? ;)


I have to agree with @Miu. If MTX is removed from the game, more people might play RS3. In fact, one major reason why some people moved to OSRS was the introduction of the MTX system. OSRS does not have a MTX system. I once went to OSRS and started talking about MTX, and people started calling me a traitor there and suggested that I go back to RS3.

Just compare the sheer size of the RS3 player base to the more massive OSRS player base. It is really self evident that removing MTX from RS3 will increase its player base. By continuing to be on the MTX system we are hurting the player base, as it is gradually decreasing.

Now to make sure that we are staying on topic with the OPer, TH is a major part of the MTX system. Now you might wonder that if I do not support the removal of TH, but support the removal of MTX, how is that possible? The removal of MTX can be done without the removal of TH, by making it that you can no longer buy extra keys.

Basically the TH key system should be changed back to how it was when "Squeel of Fortune" first came out, where you can not buy more spins with bonds. The number of spins you got each day was the number of spins you had, unless you got more spins as a quest completion reward.

What I think should be done as stated in the previous 2 paragraphs is that the, TH and MTX should be separated from each other.


Wrong again. REAL WORLD FINANCIAL REPORTS show Jagex's subscription is rising, although not as fast as MTX.

20-Mar-2018 22:25:05

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Doorknob747 said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Doorknob747 said:
Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
TH is MTX. SGS is also MTX. Jagex and its employees live on MTX.
No, they live off membership subscriptions. As already proven in this thread, most of Jagex's revenue is from membership, not MTX. You can remove the MTX from the game and Jagex will still be going strong. You can't remove the game from the MTX and keep earning revenue, can you? ;)




...

What I think should be done as stated in the previous 2 paragraphs is that the, TH and MTX should be separated from each other.


REAL WORLD FINANCIAL REPORTS show Jagex's subscription is rising, although not as fast as MTX.
[/quote][/quote]

Those reports probably include OSRS, which should be having a increasing subscription due to the fact that it has no MTX.[/quote]

OS or RS3 won't matter to Jagex at all. It is all the same money to Jagex. No matter how you guess it, it doesn't change the fact that the current monetization strategy with MTX is working for Jagex, and MTX is becoming a more prominent factor going forward according to analysts.

Don't forget there are more than 30 players outside the forums who are happy to give Jagex tens of millions of $$$ in MTX revenue every year. Their opinions, and more importantly wallets, speak volume. :)

20-Mar-2018 23:54:49

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Dilbert2001 said:
Doorknob747 said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Doorknob747 said:
Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
TH is MTX. SGS is also MTX. Jagex and its employees live on MTX.
No, they live off membership subscriptions. As already proven in this thread, most of Jagex's revenue is from membership, not MTX. You can remove the MTX from the game and Jagex will still be going strong. You can't remove the game from the MTX and keep earning revenue, can you? ;)




...

What I think should be done as stated in the previous 2 paragraphs is that the, TH and MTX should be separated from each other.


REAL WORLD FINANCIAL REPORTS show Jagex's subscription is rising, although not as fast as MTX.
[/quote]

.[/quote]

OS or RS3 won't matter to Jagex at all. It is all the same money to Jagex. No matter how you guess it, it doesn't change the fact that the current monetization strategy with MTX is working for Jagex, and MTX is becoming a more prominent factor going forward according to analysts.

Don't forget there are more than 30 players outside the forums who are happy to give Jagex tens of millions of $$$ in MTX revenue every year. Their opinions, and more importantly wallets, speak volume. :)[/quote]

20-Mar-2018 23:55:09

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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What real world evidence shows Jagex will make more money from subscription if they remove TH? We only see the responses of the 30 users in the forums and some of them like TH too.

30 x $8 x 12 < $3000 a year.

Yes, everybody can suggest but good luck if you think Jagex really care about that $3000 a year that (1) isn't guranteed, (2) they will pay on time and (3) they won't charge back and remove TH that gives them a fortune? :D:D:D

Declining members? Big fat stupid joke as I have mentioned REAL WORLD FINANCIAL REPORTS showed members have been rising and are expected to rise this year and at least next. Oh should Jagex be shaking in their Ranger Boots if all these 30 players in the forums quit. :D:D:D

21-Mar-2018 02:34:00

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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I have mentioned and provided links in many threads about the Jagex official financial reports. If you haven't read it, here it is, with English translation and comments from some reddit users:

https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/77uptr/according_to_shanghai_fukongs_financial/

And this is a report from financial analysts on Jagex's 2017-2019 fiscal years:

http://vip.stock.finance.sina.com.cn/q/go.php/vReport_Show/kind/search/rptid/3894458/index.phtml

Note that Jagex's net income in the coming year is expected to jump more than 8% from 297 mil RMB to 323 RMB, or USD 51.68 mil.

Now, can you please show us the REAL WORLD facts about declining members and losing profits? :D:D:D

21-Mar-2018 03:08:17 - Last edited on 21-Mar-2018 03:08:57 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Doorknob747 said:
Dilbert2001 said:
I have mentioned and provided links in many threads about the Jagex official financial reports. If you haven't read it, here it is, with English translation and comments from some reddit users:

https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/77uptr/according_to_shanghai_fukongs_financial/

And this is a report from financial analysts on Jagex's 2017-2019 fiscal years:

http://vip.stock.finance.sina.com.cn/q/go.php/vReport_Show/kind/search/rptid/3894458/index.phtml

Note that Jagex's net income in the coming year is expected to jump more than 8% from 297 mil RMB to 323 RMB, or USD 51.68 mil.

Now, can you please show us the REAL WORLD facts about declining members and losing profits? :D:D:D


reddit is a blog site. Bring something like a Wall street journal or New york times economy section. Then that is proof.

Anyone can post BS on Reddit.


I suggest you go for an eye examination before you make your next post. The link to the official publicly released financial report from Fukong Interactive was on the very first line of that reddit post - all 143 pages of it!

In case if you still don't see it, here it is again:

https://doc.morningstar.com/Document/0a6823db914df5f615896abbddd2ef01.msdoc/original?clientid=globaldocuments&key=52dbc583e1012395

21-Mar-2018 17:14:28

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
I have mentioned and provided links in many threads about the Jagex official financial reports. If you haven't read it, here it is, with English translation and comments from some reddit users:

https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/77uptr/according_to_shanghai_fukongs_financial/

And this is a report from financial analysts on Jagex's 2017-2019 fiscal years:

http://vip.stock.finance.sina.com.cn/q/go.php/vReport_Show/kind/search/rptid/3894458/index.phtml

Note that Jagex's net income in the coming year is expected to jump more than 8% from 297 mil RMB to 323 RMB, or USD 51.68 mil.

Now, can you please show us the REAL WORLD facts about declining members and losing profits? :D:D:D


Doesn't separate membership from MTX revenue so no clue what you're trying to say with this.

Secondly predictions aren't proof or evidence. Anyone can make predictions.

Thirdly I said dwindling playerbase of RS3, not dwindling membership. We all know membership is going up thanks to OSRS.

You do realize the whole POINT of proof is to back up what you say? Linking something unrelated and trying to use it as proof for statements that don't correlate makes no sense.


When said it 9000 times from the perspective of a business, RS NEXTGEN, RS3, OSRS, MTX, TH, Premier Club or whatever don't make any different to Jagex and its investors and the business/financial sectors covering them.

The bottom line remains they are very profitable and going to be even more profitable with their TH initiatives. Nobody cares about the $5 subscription somebody in the forums and Jagex won't even care to use that $5 bill to wipe their nose. It is hilarious somebody think Jagex will throw away $50 million a year just for $5. :D:D:D

You are also wrong in every respect regarding OSRS and MTX but I'll leave the other forumers to enlighten you because obviously OSRS has no TH to talk about.

21-Mar-2018 17:23:12

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
When said it 9000 times from the perspective of a business, RS NEXTGEN, RS3, OSRS, MTX, TH, Premier Club or whatever don't make any different to Jagex and its investors and the business/financial sectors covering them.

The bottom line remains they are very profitable and going to be even more profitable with their TH initiatives. Nobody cares about the $5 subscription somebody in the forums and Jagex won't even care to use that $5 bill to wipe their nose. It is hilarious somebody think Jagex will throw away $50 million a year just for $5. :D:D:D

You are also wrong in every respect regarding OSRS and MTX but I'll leave the other forumers to enlighten you because


Membership isn't even 5 dollars for new subscribers (you know, the ones TH scares away). And OSRS does have MTX in the form of bonds. You seem to be under the belief that TH is the only form of MTX that causes cash to flow into Jagex's pockets. If that's the case you're sadly mistaken.


You are sadly mistaken rather. I don't have to say it the 9001 times that OSRS or even Classic or Whatever don't matter in Jagex's BIG PICTURE. They are projected to make 50+ mil profits in a couple of years with not just the current RS titles but more under their current monetization model. They don't care about the $5 or $10 a month from the 30 players in the forums, especially when they can see with their eyes closed that their business has been going up and they have been setting world records and winning prestigious rewards in the game industry in the faces of the hot air blowers who have said "Runescape is dying. MTX is dying since 2012". :D:D:D

21-Mar-2018 22:45:18 - Last edited on 21-Mar-2018 22:45:50 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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SumOFab Itch said:
Work to win.


Sorry if you think you are "working" instead of "playing" runescape then you probably should just go get a real job and get paid with real money.

Yes, the money you get from a real job will let you buy more pixels/xp than you "earn" or "work" to collect gp to buy them in the game. That's why MTX is the most popluar monetization models for rich and causal player.

Real people rather work to get real money which can be used to buy them more in game purchases than people "working" or "earning" them directly from the game. :D

22-Mar-2018 17:12:15 - Last edited on 22-Mar-2018 17:12:58 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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SumOFab Itch said:
Draco Burnz said:
SumOFab Itch said:
Dragon masks became f2p.


Point is?


We pay for things that later become f2p.


But you get those things before the free players. That give you more "bragging rights".

Members used to pay for their "bragging rights" over free players when most games are subscription based. But then MTX cames and gave more bragging rights to MTX players than members so members began to cry a river. Then came Loot Boxes that make whales the most vocal ones.

Sorry if you don't like it. TH is no more evil than subscription. TH will only go away when something is more evil than itself, subscription, SGS and such that gives Jagex even more money. :D:D:D

23-Mar-2018 17:14:10

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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"There are much better things to use money on in real life, like taxes to help the government."


Absolutely. That's why TH among other MTX is so good to players who will rather use the money for other things in real life. TH gives them free items/gp. They can also convert gp to bonds that can translate to membership time, Premier Club etc.

So TH is good to all players who will rather use most of the money they will otherwise have to spend in game on their real life needs. Whales are good. TH is good.

23-Mar-2018 21:59:50

Dilbert2001

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To the ones who pay for bragging rights or they just want to get ahead of the others, TH is obvious good since they can pay to win.

To the ones who don't care about the others buying advantages from TH, they are benefited by the free stuff/gp from TH that they can be used to buy membership or other MTX items themselves. They have nothing to lose since they don't care about the others. TH is good since it can only save them real money.

To Jagex, they get both the players playing for TH and the free/semi-free ones who play and make the game more interesting for the others. Obviously, it is all good to them.

Yes. TH is win-win-win situation to pay-to-win players, free/causal players and Jagex. TH is only bad to those who want to win but can't stand the ones who pay more than them to win and brag. :D:D:D

24-Mar-2018 03:05:08

Dilbert2001

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Anybody can hope and dream but realistically Jagex and all the game companies will not give up any money they can earn easily at all, especially now all the "stakeholders" have apparently run out of money so you see all the "powerful politicians" and journalists have gone *** cricket *** *** cricket *** for a month. :D:D:D

27-Mar-2018 22:56:43 - Last edited on 27-Mar-2018 22:57:04 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Runelower said:
EA debacle showed that this whole mtx thing cannot be pushed too far. We just need to keep fighting.


Sorry to disappoint you if you still failed to realize the "EA debacle" has actually led to more MTX and further "EA debacle".

EA has put loot boxes back to SW Battlefront 2, although they don't charge real money directly from that initiative this time around. Moreover, they also put cosmetic items for real money but nothing you can do to get them from playing in their game. The MTX pay wall is well established there. :D

And not only in BF2, the MTX grab has even spilled over to SWTOR. EA has added even more loot boxes initiatives in SWTOR's Cartel Market. You know what the new loot boxes are called? Of course you know if you are an EA Sports player...
Of course they are called the Ultimate Packs, the Ultimate Baseball Card-like "gambling" random boxes that have brought Happy Hours to tens of millions of EA players the last 10 years.


It won't be long before you see the EA Sports community having loud voices in Bioware. :D:D:D

Sorry Santa and Bugs Bunny, your efforts have severely backfired
!!! :D:D:D

01-Apr-2018 18:16:54 - Last edited on 01-Apr-2018 18:18:06 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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scousy said:
You can do surveys for free keys and alot of players do this. Jagex makes no $$ there. With solomon store you can't do surveys for free rewards.


Do you really think any for profit company will do anything for free? :D:D:D

Of course Jagex will get a cut from those surveys.

If you buy bonds with gp to use on TH keys or SGS items then Jagex doesn't make any money off you. However, they still make money off the players who sell you the bonds they bought with real money.

03-Apr-2018 19:50:36

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Konota said:
Seeing from membership price changes, I extremely doubt that Jagex will now remove TH.
They want money, no matter how. Making this thread a bit pointless (as already said, but ok.).


No. Jagex won't. They said it twice in the forums already. They also listed the new prices of TH keys and Runecoins too. You just don't need to be a rocket scientist to tell... :D:D:D

This kind of anti-TH, anti-MTX threads have always been in all kinds of online game forums and blogs for years. Pointless, yes but nothing changed at all. Outside the forums/blogs, every player still play and pay the way they like, and every developer/publisher still monetize their games the way they like. Always. :D:D:D

14-Apr-2018 22:34:39 - Last edited on 14-Apr-2018 22:49:53 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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boidaez said:
Draco Burnz said:
Blackwing said:
Jeremy Cheng said:
Just remove it. Save the game. Save the rebellion.

Looking at the way things have been going elsewhere regarding MTX like TH, there's a good chance that it might be removed eventually. > )


Yea that'll happen once osrs gets removed /s


howmuch does jagex pay you to speak on their behalf?

osrs was probably only created to cater for people who dont want real world trading damaging their game

jagex hate rwt, but only caus they want to do it

in my opinion jagex made osrs to counter their sales of bonds and th keys
that means rs3 is a highly desposable game format

that means osrs is a resort for player base

its a scape goat for failure


TH from RS3 is already "damaging" OSRS no matter what you say as long as RS3 gp can be converted to OSRS gp.

If OSRS players really "hate" MTX that much, why do they want to convert OSRS gp for RS3 gp?

Obviously, the RS3 and OSRS economies are tied because of the freedom of gp conversion between the 2 versions. OSRS players don't all hate MTX and TH obviously or they will at least demand Jagex to prohibit RS3 and OSRS gp conversion. :D:D:D

16-Apr-2018 17:58:19 - Last edited on 16-Apr-2018 17:58:42 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Blackwing said:
Traeh said:
I thought OSRS was completely separate from RS3 , feeling silly not knowing

It is completely separate; nothing can be transferred from RS3 to OSRS and vice versa. > )


Absolutely, completely, totally, definitely 100% incorrect since you can convert RS3 gp to OSRS gp. Not only Jagex said they do not prohibit, you can even see many threads in the forums on such offers. :D:D:D

17-Apr-2018 03:09:40

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Blackwing said:
Traeh said:
I thought OSRS was completely separate from RS3 , feeling silly not knowing

It is completely separate; nothing can be transferred from RS3 to OSRS and vice versa. > )


Absolutely, completely, totally, definitely 100% incorrect since you can convert RS3 gp to OSRS gp. Not only Jagex said they do not prohibit, you can even see many threads in the forums on such offers. :D:D:D


Trust trading to swap gold isn't allowed on the forums and if you see any of that you should report it to forum help.


I don't care about other people converting/transerring gp between OSRS and RS3 or even Classics so I don't report them. I only knew there were complaints on that issue before but Jmods replied with something like "they don't care... it is between the players". :D:D:D

If you want to report, go help yourself. There are plenty of these threads in the forums.

Just give you a head up, there are many of them in various forums under Market Place (Business and Services, Misc, etc) and some in different RS3 and OSRS forums too. :D:D:D

17-Apr-2018 22:59:01

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Blackwing said:
Miu said:
Trust trading to swap gold isn't allowed on the forums and if you see any of that you should report it to forum help.

Any sort of trust trading IIRC is nowadays allowed on the forums, as long as it's placed on the appropriate subforum of course. (Well except maybe DMM swapping under the current rules, heard it had stricter rules this time but not really sure how it works.)

---

But yea, even though you can swap trade gp/other wealth across the games, they're still completely separate from each other, because the traded gp/wealth doesn't move across games; it stays on its own game and merely changes hands inside that particular game. > )


RS3 and OSRS are seperate games but their economies are tied because gp is allowed to be transferred between them.

If RS3 players pay a lot for TH and get a lot of gp they can convert it to OSRS gp. RS3 players can also get to very high skill levels quick with TH so they can make a lot of gp 9000 times faster than other players. That gp can, again, be converted to OSRS gp.

TH can get players ahead of not just other RS3 players, but also OSRS players obviously. Although the games are separate, the economies of RS3 and OSRS are tied. The effect of TH in RS3 can also be felt in OSRS. :D:D:D

17-Apr-2018 23:41:57 - Last edited on 17-Apr-2018 23:44:29 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
RS3 and OSRS are seperate games but their economies are tied because gp is allowed to be transferred between them.


That's completely nonsense. Using that logic you could say World of Warcraft and OSRS are linked because you can give someone WoW gold and they'll give you OSRS gold. Both forms of gold originate from their respective games. Whether it's allowed or not has no bearing on whether they are """linked""" or not. Yeah, you can trade OSRS gold for RS3 gold, but the gold in OSRS still came from OSRS, and the gold on RS3 still originates in RS3. No gold is being exchanged between the games, it's just trading hands on their original games.


When two players are EXCHANGING gold between 2 games, they are not just "giving" or "gifting" each other player gold. They are trading gold.

When two players are trading WoW gold for OSRS gp they are real world trading. It is not allowed per Jagex's EULA. You can't say they are just "giving" or "gifting" each other gold and gp.

However, it is not real world trading when a RS3 player trade gp for OSRS gp with an OSRS player because Jagex approves it.

Trading and "giving" or "gifting" are totally different things. :D:D:D

18-Apr-2018 00:41:35

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
RS3 and OSRS are seperate games but their economies are tied because gp is allowed to be transferred between them.


That's completely nonsense. Using that logic you could say World of Warcraft and OSRS are linked because you can give someone WoW gold and they'll give you OSRS gold. Both forms of gold originate from their respective games. Whether it's allowed or not has no bearing on whether they are """linked""" or not. Yeah, you can trade OSRS gold for RS3 gold, but the gold in OSRS still came from OSRS, and the gold on RS3 still originates in RS3. No gold is being exchanged between the games, it's just trading hands on their original games.


When two players are EXCHANGING gold between 2 games, they are not just "giving" or "gifting" each other player gold. They are trading gold.

When two players are trading WoW gold for OSRS gp they are real world trading. It is not allowed per Jagex's EULA. You can't say they are just "giving" or "gifting" each other gold and gp.

However, it is not real world trading when a RS3 player trade gp for OSRS gp with an OSRS player because Jagex approves it.

Trading and "giving" or "gifting" are totally different things. :D:D:D


Whether or not jagex approves makes no difference, as the gold still originated in their respective games. The economies are not linked as no gold is actually transferred between games, it's merely changing hands in the games the gold came from.


RS3 players who get 9000 bil gp from TH can convert it to OSRS gp and be way way way way way ahead of OSRS players. It is an undeniable fact. :D:D:D

18-Apr-2018 01:08:00

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
RS3 players who get 9000 bil gp from TH can convert it to OSRS gp and be way way way way way ahead of OSRS players. It is an undeniable fact. :D:D:D
That is correct, but the RS3 economy is the one that will suffer inflation as a consequence. No OSRS gold is created as a consequence of RS3's MTX activities.


Who care about the economy or inflation if they are going to get a lot of gp from TH? They are not going to grind their gp. Economy doesn't bother them. They just get gp from TH and use them in both RS3 and OSRS to be better than the others. They pay to win in RS3 and also in OSRS. Good for them if that's what they care. :D:D:D

18-Apr-2018 02:26:21

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
RS3 players who get 9000 bil gp from TH can convert it to OSRS gp and be way way way way way ahead of OSRS players. It is an undeniable fact. :D:D:D
That is correct, but the RS3 economy is the one that will suffer inflation as a consequence. No OSRS gold is created as a consequence of RS3's MTX activities.


Who care about the economy or inflation if they are going to get a lot of gp from TH? They are not going to grind their gp. Economy doesn't bother them. They just get gp from TH and use them in both RS3 and OSRS to be better than the others. They pay to win in RS3 and also in OSRS. Good for them if that's what they care. :D:D:D


I'm glad you recognize that aggressive MTX practices and short-sighted whales are damaging to the game and the economy. Good for you if that makes you happy.


What? I never said anything "aggressive" or "damaging". I just don't care and it is good for the whales to get what they want, pay to win in both RS3 and OSRS at the same time. :D:D:D

Good for OSRS players if whales from RS3 can pay their way to win in OSRS and that makes them happy. :D:D:D

18-Apr-2018 18:38:52

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Konota said:
Runelower said:

What is the reason RS3 active population has declined from 39k to 24k active players in the last 3 years?

Let's see.
- New top free games that are released on the market (Fortnite for example, roflstomping most games atm)
- 07 Scape taking away some players (hence the reason why I do not support more versions of Runescape, 2011 for example)
- Shitty updates in batches, broken promises, ...
-


I mean, everyone seems to blame MTX for lack of players, but based on what?


Actually active RS3 members have risen to 723.3k. Remember, OSRS and RS3 members are subscribed under the same plan and able to play both games. Besides, OSRS are also affected by the MTX from RS3 because gp can be exchanged between both games.

The current top 10 PC video games according to SuperData Research are:

1. League of Legends
2. Dunegon Fighter Online
3. Fantasy Westeard Journey Online II
4. Crossfire
5. PlayerUnknwon's Battlegrounds
6. Fortnite: Battle Royale
7. World of Warcraft
8. World of Tanks
9. Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft
10. Counter-Strike: Global Offensive

All of them have a lot more MTX than Runescape and most of them are fully supported by MTX without subscription.

In fact, all except WoW are free to play and not MMO. Pay to play MMO are dying, not Runescape, not MTX. That's the real fact. :D:D:D

21-Apr-2018 18:17:17

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Konota said:
Runelower said:

What is the reason RS3 active population has declined from 39k to 24k active players in the last 3 years?

Let's see.
- New top free games that are released on the market (Fortnite for example, roflstomping most games atm)
- 07 Scape taking away some players (hence the reason why I do not support more versions of Runescape, 2011 for example)
- Shitty updates in batches, broken promises, ...
-



Actually active RS3 members have risen to 723.3k. Remember, OSRS and RS3 members are subscribed under the same plan and able to play both games. Besides, OSRS are also affected by the MTX from RS3 because gp can be exchanged between both games.

The current top 10 PC video games according to SuperData Research are:

1. League of Legends
2. Dunegon Fighter Online
3. Fantasy Westeard Journey Online II
4. Crossfire
5. PlayerUnknwon's Battlegrounds
6. Fortnite: Battle Royale
7. World of Warcraft
8. World of Tanks
9. Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft
10. Counter-Strike: Global Offensive

All of them have a lot more MTX than Runescape and most of them are fully supported by MTX without subscription.

In fact, all except WoW are free to play and not MMO. Pay to play MMO are dying, not Runescape, not MTX. That's the real fact. :D:D:D


PUBG isn't free2play lmao

According to this sort of data runescape would be making more money if they went f2p and upped the MTX even more... but instead they raised the subscription price. A greedy act of desperation? Or will we be seeing a reduction in MTX in the future?


PUBG isn't f2p but it is also not an MMO. LMAO :D:D:D

RS may make more if they go fully f2p, particularly in Asia years later when MMO and subscription deteriorate more, but 723k members are good enough now. :D:D:D

23-Apr-2018 00:26:23

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
PUBG isn't f2p but it is also not an MMO. LMAO :D:D:D

RS may make more if they go fully f2p, particularly in Asia years later when MMO and subscription deteriorate more, but 723k members are good enough now. :D:D:D


It may not be an MMO but the average round still has more players than some rs3 worlds, lmao....


So? The largest runescape worlds can't hold more than 2000 players. War of Tanks set the Guiness World Record of >500k players online in the same world simultaneoulsy.

Different games can monetize in different ways can still be successful.

WoW has recurring subscription in the West but none of their "subscription" in China is recurring - each "subscription" there is just a one time payment for game time.

That said, Runescape can do the same thing as in WoW in China too, while maintaining the current model in the West and make more money in both parts of the world. :D:D:D

Anyway, MTX in WoW is pretty much the same in both the West and East even if "subscriptions" mean different things there. Same thing with TH in Runescape going forward in different parts of the world. :D:D:D

23-Apr-2018 02:05:50

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Doorknob747 said:
PrimaAntiqua said:
I think the fact they keep making Th worse and worse and worse in the face of sentiment like this shows how much they value our feedback.... I'd be surprised of JMods even read this forum anymore TBH. We'd have better luck on Reddit and Twitter, sadly.


I have to agree with you are saying. If JMods read the forum, then there would have been a Jmod post already by now on this Thread, 14-15-431-66007608. Which is surprising since it is on the most active forum category.

The last time I ever saw a JMOD explicitly state that they were accepting an idea from a thread created from a player was like 3 or 4 years ago.


From the very first post of the Runescape Monetization thread posted on Oct 23, 2017 by Mod Balance:

"to be clear, this doesn’t mean the end of Treasure Hunter promotions."


Jagex made it extremely clear in plain English already. :D:D:D

24-Apr-2018 23:52:33

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Doorknob747 said:
Blackwing said:
https://youtu.be/BQcsORIwkSo?t=7m3s

Satire. > )


TH earned, Dung XP from lamps does not come with Dung tokens included. So basically useless for F2P players who find dungeoneering rewards very useful.


Neither do members get any DG tokens with the DG xp lamps from TH.

DG token boxes are also a TH reward both members and free players can get.

Members and free players get equal treatment in that aspect. :D:D:D

27-Apr-2018 17:13:17

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Ashlin107 said:
Ilia Volyova said:
The battlefront 2 fiasco put a spot light on them. Sooner or later politicans will limit gambling in games. I know people say it's not gambling but it is and it is addictive.


Well Belgium and Sweden have already started banning loot boxes. Plus Washington state has recently banned a casino simulator recently too. So the end is closer than some of us may realise.


False news is simply false. Sweden said nothing. Belgium only looked at and asked to talk to 3 games. No loot boxes have been banned anywhere whatsoever. Otherwise you won't see them running now. :D:D:D

Washington also did not ban loot boxes. Games of chance in an online casino with no other real game content is what they looked at, plus in Washington "thing of value" includes items/services that extend game time, which also means
SUBSCRIPTION
. That's why Big Fish Game's subscription plan also violated their law.

If any online game, RS included is considered a casino, it won't help them at all even if they remove TH since they will also have to remove subscription too. :D:D:D:D:D:D

01-May-2018 16:14:23 - Last edited on 01-May-2018 16:26:55 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Ashlin107 said:
My mistake it wasn't Sweden that was looking at Loot Boxes it was the Netherlands. My bad.

As for Belgium it's more than just asking to talk with these three games. They are actually willing to press for fines or even jail time for the heads of these companies don't get rid of them within some deadline. Also it only be three now but they'll turn to others once the get rid of the main players.

As for Washington and the Casino simulator. Well extreme example of these kinds of MTX but it fits. Not to mention they are one of the states pushing hardest against Loot Boxes. With one bill requiring the gambling commission to investigate that has yet to pass.

As for them having to remove subscription. Subscription is completely different to TH or Loot boxes. If you can't see that after I and I assume other people have tried to tell you the difference. But I'm done trying to convince you otherwise since you'll end up flipping the monopoly board on us any way.


Netherlands have already said loot boxes are not illegal, only the ways some game developers operate may make them a problem. They actually said they have found many games with loot boxes in compliance with their laws.

Since I posted their words here already, I don't need to re-post everything. Just go check it out please:

http://services.runescape.com/m=forum/c=j5QoLc1rVzs/forums.ws?14,15,727,66007918

Belgium, Washington State or whatever country, US states have not enforce any laws at all against loot boxes.

I remember you have kept talking about this hypothetical "laws" and invisible "bans" months ago. Here is the same question again:

If loot boxes are illegal and banned, how come we still see them running in all kinds of games everywhere in the world, and players are still playing them?
:D:D:D:D:D:D

01-May-2018 17:02:52

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Read my posts on the thread I posted on my last post please. The Legislative Department of a state/country doesn't represent the LAW of the country. It is only a part of the LAW.

Nobody is enforcing any law anywhere in the world against loot boxes. For instance, in Netherlands, it is only case by case. It is not illegal even by their law makers' standard, let alone law enforcement and their judges. Note that not only didn't NGA say loot boxes are illegal, they even refused to name and shame the 4 and only 4 violators. :D:D:D

Again x 9000. Repeating "it takes time" doesn't add any new initiative or change the facts at all. The "time" hasn't come. There is nothing new to discuss until the "time" :D:D:D:D:D:D

Meanwhile, enjoy TH: Gemstacks now. You are given the choices between better rarity and quantity of a prize. :D:D:D

01-May-2018 17:53:38

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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I already told you many times
"The Legislative Department of a state/country doesn't represent the LAW of the country. It is only a part of the LAW."


Netherlands never even mentioned anything about loot boxes being illegal or banned at all. That's the fact. They never said they are going after anybody at all. They only asked to talk to 4 out of the many games they investigated. They even refused to name them. They also cleared at least 6 developers from anything related to loot boxes already. Crystal clear.

EU said nothing at all. Repeating the same "soon", "soon", "soon" doesn't matter at all.
You better tell us "when?", "when?", "when?" and "what?", "what?" "what?" to "who?", "who", "who?"
. :D:D:D

I am not here to argue about hypothetical events and personal beliefs . I am here to discuss with facts, facts and nothing but facts. :D:D:D

Governments need time to implement Laws but if they are really LAWS they will need to tell everybody what they are, when will they happen and to whom they concerns? Who don't understand laws? Well, we should all know. :D:D:D

BTW, didn't all those people already reported loot boxes have been banned in Belgium in Novermber 2017 already? How come Belgium "banned" them again almost 6 months later and developers are all still running them and all the players in Belgium can still sell them?

Hercule Poirot: "We should all use our Little Grey Cells, mon ami"
:D:D:D:D:D:D

02-May-2018 17:48:32

Dilbert2001

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"In a newly published forecast of the global game market, Juniper Research concedes that developers are "effectively encouraging a form of in-game gambling" with loot boxes and using that addictive potential to "extend both the lifecycle and engagement of games titles to their audience." These kinds of non-traditional money-making techniques are a practical necessity for developers squeezed by increasing costs and stagnant or declining up-front game prices, Juniper says."


Source: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/05/despite-backlash-loot-boxes-could-be-essential-to-gamings-future/

Sorry, like what Jagex said on the Monetization thread, TH is a pratical necessity for them squeezed by increasing costs and stagnant or declining upfront game prices. :D:D:D

"one analyst sees spending on loot boxes increasing by over 62 percent in the next four years to become a $47 billion piece of the industry. By then, loot boxes will represent over 29 percent of all spending on digital games, the analyst said, up from just under 25 percent currently."


People are expected to spend 62% more on loot boxes over the next 4 years too.

02-May-2018 21:28:34

Dilbert2001

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Actual law enforcement don't threaten people. If no action is taken. That "law" is not being enforced. There have always been public "warnings" that certain things like drinking, smoking or even some foods can be dangerous to our health but when laws are actually broken, companies will be charged and brought to court with definitive actions stopping them from selling said "dangerous" products.

No legal actions have been taken by the Belgium to any company, not even to the 3 games they named. They only asked to talk with the companies that own these games. Enough said.

Loot boxes have previously been reported as gambling in Belgium by many game journalists in November, 2017. They said declared as gambling, not just Belgium was investigating them. Some examples:

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/11/belgium-denounces-loot-boxes-as-gambling-hawaiian-legislator-calls-them-predatory/

http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/belgium-says-loot-boxes-are-gambling-wants-them-banned-in-europe.455056735/

http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2017/11/21/belgium-finished-loot-box-investigation-deemed-gambling/

It is clear that these journalists have failed to realize Belgium hasn't done with their investigation with loot boxes in November, let alone banning them.

Note that Juniper Research is not just one person. They are a renowned market research in the game industry. The figures they provided is not an estimate. It is from surveys done with game developers, much like Superdata and the GDC research that showed 500 developers will continue to go with loot boxes. However, it is not Bible. It is a reference.

Ladies and gentlemen, please take a look at the very first post of this thread. I truly believe OP wrote this thread based on revenue, profits, etc... that's the financial aspects of TH to Jagex, not legislation. We should know what are the key points to discuss and what not, right? :D:D:D

03-May-2018 15:30:53 - Last edited on 03-May-2018 15:48:16 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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As I mentioned several times, the reason loot boxes exist in many games is because there are buyers, a lot of them in fact particularly in Asian and even Africa. It is naive to assume companies won't produce things that customers demand. So, TH is going to stay for sure, and will only be stronger as prominent market searchers and analysts of the game industry conceded.

I am not going to address legal issues here in details since there is already a thread for that recently in the General Forums. That's the place to go if somebody are really serious: Quick find code: 14-15-727-66007918

As a BTW on that legal "crusade" some unhappy players fight for, they better realize their losing battle have already lost in the US as the Hawaiian and Washington Bills have been thrown into the shredder in March already. Nobody even wanted to look at them. No support at all and they didn't even meet the deadline. That's the key point - the actual US lawmakers simply have no interests regardless how many more loot box bills are introduced. :D:D:D

The more interesting and practical thing developers may do is to be ethical when promoting loot boxes. They should not promote them as the main content of the games. I think RS is doing very well in that aspect. The game is promoted all the way as a fun adventure with 18 years of content in various categories, not a casino with only games of chance but nothing else. :D:D:D

03-May-2018 17:49:28 - Last edited on 03-May-2018 18:06:43 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Blackwing said:
0815 said:
As for the topic: As long as there are customers who are buying there will be Treasure Hunter content. Those in favour of TH, continue buying, those against, stop buying. At the end of the year the numbers matter.

If only Jagex figured it out that long term, they'd make more money from subscriptions and cosmetic MTX if they scrapped the P2W MTX. Hell, even keeping bonds would be fine, as they actually do a lot of good, while TH does nada in that regard. > )


I bet they know what they are doing, and doing right. That's why Jagex is making 28 mil 43 million British Pounds net profits in 2017. :D:D:D

03-May-2018 18:07:48 - Last edited on 03-May-2018 18:08:16 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Blackwing said:
0815 said:
As for the topic: As long as there are customers who are buying there will be Treasure Hunter content. Those in favour of TH, continue buying, those against, stop buying. At the end of the year the numbers matter.

If only Jagex figured it out that long term, they'd make more money from subscriptions and cosmetic MTX if they scrapped the P2W MTX. Hell, even keeping bonds would be fine, as they actually do a lot of good, while TH does nada in that regard. > )


I bet they know what they are doing, and doing right. That's why Jagex is making 28 mil 43 million British Pounds net profits in 2017. :D:D:D


That's probably because they didn't spend all their money on another failed MMO/card game attempt in 2017. All those Transformer Universes and mechscapes and Chronicles really take a big cut of the profit.


TU and Mechscape haven't been a financial factor for Jagex since their 2015 report at all. Nobody know about Chronicles since Jagex never announced information on individual titles. "Really take a big cut of the profit"??? :D:D:D

Only Jagex know but we are not going to find out anyway. All it matters to us players is if Jagex continues to make 43 mil pounds and more and more and more every year, their monetization will go the same way. To us players, more importantly, we'll still have Jagex games to play.

So, go TH if they make Jagex stronger and stronger. Meanwhile, I control my own wallet. If I don't want to pay I won't. No need to hate TH since it doesn't bother me. :D:D:D

03-May-2018 18:45:19 - Last edited on 03-May-2018 18:46:02 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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0815 said:
Blackwing said:
0815 said:
As for the topic: As long as there are customers who are buying there will be Treasure Hunter content. Those in favour of TH, continue buying, those against, stop buying. At the end of the year the numbers matter.

If only Jagex figured it out that long term, they'd make more money from subscriptions and cosmetic MTX if they scrapped the P2W MTX. Hell, even keeping bonds would be fine, as they actually do a lot of good, while TH does nada in that regard. > )


The thing is that some people (18++) love to gamble with Treasure Hunter and / or love to buy a lot of cosmetic overrides.
I admit that when SGS came out, I did buy the Guthix teleport for 12 € or so. 12 Euros for a silly animation. But I did enjoy it for some years, until SGS became more mainstream and Jagex released the monthly free item.

#fashionscape


The actual fact why TH and other MTX are so wildly popular is because parents don't consider them bad influence to their children at all. You can see that from all kinds of loot boxes and MTX in Angry Bird, a game designed for small kids. You can also see parents don't have any problem spending money on gumball machines, which also clearly target little kids.

These anti-"gambling" and MTX hatred mostly only happen in some forums, but not the real world. As a matter of fact, even in the extreme heat of loot boxes hatred back in November 2017, an ABC survey showed only 6% of the 1000 people they polled said they would never buy loot boxes. :D:D:D

This article is a very good read about the psychologies of the parents - they don't really hate loot boxes and MTX:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-28/pay-to-win-gaming-features-look-like-gambling/9201386

03-May-2018 19:03:06 - Last edited on 03-May-2018 19:12:21 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
TU and Mechscape haven't been a financial factor for Jagex since their 2015 report at all. Nobody know about Chronicles since Jagex never announced information on individual titles. "Really take a big cut of the profit"?


Yes, part of the reasons profits have been so high lately is Jagex isn't wasting their money on some other game that never turns out. Seems like we'll be getting another one, soon though.


There is no indication, and probably never be any from any official Jagex announcement how much money they are making/losing in Chronicles. I don't think they are making money in that title neither but game developers have to keep rolling out new initiatives to keep their piggy banks full.

RS Mobile is around the corner. I don't think it will flop although I don't think the full version will be a big hit in its first year, particularly in the West but new ideas and new games are what keep game developers who rely on selling creativity like Jagex growing. The outlook of Mobile and the other new next gen titles is bright.

Anyway, if some people really think new games are bad for Jagex, does it only mean TH and MTX that take very little extra time and money to make in the old games are even more important to the company's financial books? :D:D:D

04-May-2018 16:02:23 - Last edited on 04-May-2018 16:04:08 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Acra said:
I personally choose not to play as much or login because (mtx) exists.. It makes me feel like nothing I do in-gam is of any importance. So if I login I just chat with others for most part now. I used to play this game back in the day before being deceived over and over again.


Unfortunately (to you), there are hardly any games without MTX nowadays. It will be even harder to find any in a couple of years. So, you may just want to quite playing online games all alone... or you may just want to play some single player or 4 person co-op console games since the less players the games are designed for, the less pay-to-win and therefore the less MTX. ;)

This is not necessarily always true though, since even some developers are even selling extra lives and skins in pac-man clones now. :D:D:D

Better yet, just don't play any games if you hate MTX so much. You may talk in the forums for free... well... at least until the developers someday put MTX there so you may need to pay for your forum title, picture and user ID. :D:D:D

06-May-2018 20:19:50 - Last edited on 06-May-2018 20:20:25 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Hmm... some people don't realize loot boxes are freshly added to Nintendo games even like Animal Crossing just a couple of weeks ago? :D:D:D

Nobody knows ESO, a big Bethesda games, doesn't have heaps of loot boxes and other forms of MTX? :D:D:D

It won't matter if just a few people in the forums don't realize the facts because companies know them. That's why they are pushing all the MTX initiatives so they can reap the huge profits. ATVI certainly knew the facts. That's why they beat the earning estimate again from the reports out just 2 days ago. :D:D:D

07-May-2018 17:12:35

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Konota said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Hmm... some people don't realize loot boxes are freshly added to Nintendo games even like Animal Crossing just a couple of weeks ago? :D


Agreed. Or other forms of income, like amiibo, new consoles to purchase every now and then, ... .


Nintendo's Amiibo loot crates are actually a very interesting topic regarding games of chances.

Nintendo has been known to take advantage of Amiibo for many many many years but they disguised them under the category of "collector's edition" kind of nonsense. The general public's perception is they are randomized physical goods in the category of Collection or Trading Cards much like Baseball or Marvel Cards.

There is a catch though. A year or 2 ago Nintendo added in game unlocks with Ambiibo loot crates. That opened the flood gate that "gambling" with their loot boxes not only reward physical figurines but also in game unlocks.

Well, players turned a blind eye on Nintendo while they selectively attacked EA, Blizzard and the likes. Very interesting... :D:D:D

Not for long though, now we see Nintendo is beginning to step up their loot box march. I mentioned Animal Crossing: Pocket Camp already... but actually before that they put loot boxes in Fire Emblem Heroes a couple of months ago alongside Rocket League. Perhaps their fanboys don't notice... or elect to be willfully blind about their loot boxes... but rest assured, Nintendo is not holier than thou. They are just as greedy in pushing loot boxes as the other game companies. :D:D:D

Sorry haters, but Jagex is not alone in this loot box "predators" list, far from alone indeed. :D:D:D

08-May-2018 15:13:24 - Last edited on 08-May-2018 15:18:04 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
No Steam games except their own work for long. ;)
Chronicle was removed from steam i'm pretty sure.


No. Jagex removed Chronicle from their own sites and handed it over to Steam on a silver plate months ago. Now they are removing it from Steam too. :D:D:D

Remember we used to see 2 kids playing Chronicles in many places in RS3? They removed it a few months ago. That's the time Jagex pulled their own support and turned it over to Steam. They also removed the forums from their own official site.

In fact, if you check Jagex's official blog, you can see the last post before today's announcement was Oct 2016. :D:D:D

https://www.rschronicle.com/blog

The comment on Reddit was right. Jagex pulled the plug on Chronicle long ago. :(

However, this has nothing to do with MTX or not. Can you say Funorb is closing because of MTX too? Of course not because it is 100% subscription based. :D:D:D

09-May-2018 00:05:15 - Last edited on 09-May-2018 01:08:03 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Ladies and gentlemen, it is crystal clear that Jagex has the plan to ignore or even "abandon" Chronicles since Oct 2016. It can easily be seen from the lack of even a single update to its own official blog after Oct 2016. Do you remember what event happened around that time to Jagex? If your answer is the (then) Potential Acquisition of Jagex by a (now its current) Chinese owner, you are absolutely right.

No need to argue on just a few Reddit comments, but Draco is right in the general way though. Chronicle has never been, or at least not a big part, of Jagex's plan since Oct 2016. Its recent shut down announcement has nothing to do with TH, MTX or whatever, because the plan was there long ago - it is/was never an important part of Jagex's (new) business. :D:D:D

09-May-2018 16:36:56 - Last edited on 09-May-2018 17:14:44 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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You know why loot boxes are good and game developers are
PUSHING FORWARD
with them?

The CEO of EA just told us in their earning conference call yesterday, when being asked about loot boxes and their future plan with them, by a representative from Goldman Sach:

"We’re going to continue pushing forward,” EA chief executive officer Andrew Wilson said during a conference call with industry analysts. “We’re always thinking about our players. We’re always thinking about how to deliver these types of experiences in a transparent, fun, fair, and balanced way for our players"


I bet, likewise, Jagex put TH for us players to enjoy because they are always thinking about us. They're always thinking about how to deliver these types of fantastic experiences to us. :D:D:D

Oh yeah... all the game developers think we players love these types of loot boxes experience... and the Wall Street analysts applauded such comments and ways of conducting business, sending EA's stock up >4%. :D:D:D

09-May-2018 16:47:10 - Last edited on 09-May-2018 16:49:45 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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SumOFab Itch said:
^ no one hates u dude.

U need to be taught a lesson tho - Roll with it or get rolled over.

Jagex didn't start this, their just rolling with it.

And I hope jagex wins... I hope they win the entire world... I'd rather jagex win the world than candyville.


Of course, Jagex wins real money when somebody buy TH keys, but the more important thing for the players is they win when they play TH.

I have played this game since 2001, that tells you I can't be a kid. However, I still remember in the ancient time my parents put a lot of coins into gumball machines just because me and my little brother pointed to those colorful little balls with small figurines inside and smiled. Well, some people think that's gambling so it is not good. But to me, it is a different kind of "gambling" because the parents and the kids all win if they are happy.

The key point is if you have fun with games of chance you are always a winner no matter what prizes you. If you don't think it is fun, just don't play it. However, one will be really silly if he think he can stop those who don't mind to pay for the
FUN
but not the actual prizes. :D:D:D

19-May-2018 20:54:38 - Last edited on 19-May-2018 20:56:20 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Won't happen because only 5.8% of the real world people said they would never buy loot boxes according to the Qutee report, and 69% of them said they would have no problem at all if things are cosmetic only.

That's why according to Juniper Resarch's survey, loot boxes revenue will grow 68% over the next 4 years, and they will contribute to 29% of the world's video games' total revenue by then, up from the current 25%.

That's also why ESA's President Gallapher said in his presentation in the Nordic conference a couple of days ago, the players like the industry's creativity and monetization model in the industry looong history of financial success.

Remove TH? Won't happen... but don't blame the developers. Blame the players 94%-ish players who love MTX, particularly loot boxes, in the industry looong histroy of success, and voiced their opinions with their wallets. :D:D:D

27-May-2018 17:50:57 - Last edited on 27-May-2018 17:51:38 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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"So even if you don't use TH yourself, when other people do use it, TH gives an unfair advantage to hiscore competition, it injects more resources to the game, which increases their supply..."


In the real world, this kind of pay to win complaints are also not really an issue accordingly to a more recent Qutee research:

Only 22% of gamers dislike pay to win.

Although more players think pay to win is more problematic than loot boxes, they are still the vocal minorities. The fact is for every player who cries pay to win, there are more than 3 players who either don't care or even enjoy paying for advantages :D:D:D

28-May-2018 17:08:02

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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UrekMazino said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Only 22% of gamers dislike pay to win.

Although more players think pay to win is more problematic than loot boxes, they are still the vocal minorities. The fact is for every player who cries pay to win, there are more than 3 players who either don't care or even enjoy paying for advantages :D:D:D


1. Got a source for your stat there?
2. Sure, I wouldn't mind p2w if it wasn't so obscenely OP like in this game. Compare the p2w in rs3 to osrs alone is enough, in osrs, there's only bond, which allows players to trade real currency with in game currency to give them advantage in game. That's also considered p2w but its nowhere near as obnoxious as rs3's p2w. Another example is WoW, there's also a bond system that allows you to trade real currency with in game currency, and also an instant leveling system, but that only works for 1 character and you have to have another character above that level already.


https://www.qutee.com/gaming-today-report/

28-May-2018 17:37:19

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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UrekMazino said:
You saying only 22% of gamers display p2w is soooo misleading. From the report your provided:

68.6% say cosmetic only is ok
22% dislike pay to win
5.8% say they don't purchase them
2.4% say they'd rather pay up front
1.3% say they're a fan

Remember, we're talking about TH here, TH is a form of MTX that provides in game advantage. Those 896 voters (huge sample size btw /s) saying cosmetic only is ok will definitely say RS3's TH is not ok as it gives in game advantage by allowing you to skip over some progression.

If I'm interpreting "I'd rather pay up front" correctly, it means that those players would rather buy a full game that has no MTX/p2w feature. And the "I don't purchase them" players are indifferent to MTX/p2w but do no participate it in.

So even if you exclude the 2 types of players mentioned above, it would still mean that a whopping 90.6% of the voters would not be ok with RS3's TH (and 98.7% if you include them). That is in no way a vocal minority of players being ok with p2w.


Obviously my post was in reference to a social media platform's survey from over 9000 10,000 gamers from different demographic areas and different games, not specifically to only TH in Runescape.

I thought it was very clear that my post was in response to somebody's post with reference to MTX in other games, specially single player games, and TH in Runescape. We were both not talking about just TH in Runecape specifically.

If you don't understand what me and the the user I directly responded to talked about, my apologies and I hope you do now. Otherwise, please be advised again that and read again carefully what we talked about first - and that is, it is the global trend that the vast majority of gamers from all over the world do not dislike pay-to-win. Thanks. :):):)

29-May-2018 17:01:34 - Last edited on 29-May-2018 17:07:30 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Astral V2 said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Obviously my post was in reference to a social media platform's survey from over 9000 10,000 gamers from different demographic areas and different games, not specifically to only TH in Runescape.

I thought it was very clear that my post was in response to somebody's post with reference to MTX in other games, specially single player games, and TH in Runescape. We were both not talking about just TH in Runecape specifically.

If you don't understand what me and the the user I directly responded to talked about, my apologies and I hope you do now. Otherwise, please be advised again that and read again carefully what we talked about first - and that is, it is the global trend that the vast majority of gamers from all over the world do not dislike pay-to-win. Thanks.


Yes thnx for the info.


You are welcome...

And 261+ million players who helped to earn a Runescape a place again in the Guiness World Record thank you for all your passion in this Jagex game, and your real world data...or lack of....

And more importantly, I think Jagex is thankful all of us players voiced our opinions with our wallets so they keep on breaking revenue and profits records year after year. :D:D:D:D:D:D

29-May-2018 23:02:14 - Last edited on 29-May-2018 23:03:21 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Polls don't always mean anything. There have been surveys every few weeks lately but Jagex did not always, and actually more often than not, selected the less popular choices to work on.

In the end, only the best content for a company's financial status will be implemented, and that doesn't limited to only loot boxes or MTX.

You can see the same company implemented MTX in many different ways. For instance, Blizzard sells xp buffs in Destiny 2, cosmetic items in Overwatch and grossly random loot boxes with items directly affecting game play in Hearthstone.:D:D:D

Whichever cat catches the mice is a good cat. Surveys and pools are useless if the "most popular" choices in a small sample don't make as much money. The products a company sell are often what the consumers demanded. Who care about the vocal minorities who pay less than the majority of the consumers who voiced with their wallets? :D:D:D

03-Jun-2018 00:14:25

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Breakdown of Jagex's 2017 Revenue from official financial Fukong Financial Report:

Membership: £38.33 mil
TH: £22.42 mil
Runecoin: £2.48 mil
Bond: £20.19 mil
Advert: £0.33 mil
Others: £1.36 mil
==============
Total: £85.13 mil

Member headcounts went up from 720k to 760k. Membership fees rose but the much better than expected big jump in revenue came mostly from MTX. Membership contributed only 45% to Jagex's total revenue last year.

So as predicted and mentioned many many times in these forums, Jagex's MTX is going to catch up to their peers. So don't even think about getting rid of MTX. It is just impractical since subscription is not going to make a game company much money, Jagex included. :D:D:D

Also, the more interesting fact is revenue from Runecoin is only 11% of that from TH. SGS doesn't seen to be doing too good. :D:D:D

http://file.finance.sina.com.cn/211.154.219.97:9494/MRGG/CNSESH_STOCK/2018/2018-6/2018-06-02/4491886.PDF

04-Jun-2018 03:20:32 - Last edited on 04-Jun-2018 03:28:29 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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One player's "confidence" doesn't mean much to a the top and bottom line of a game with 260+ mil players unfortunately. Jagex knows the best. They know what's the best things to do. They know what the world think and are doing the best things. :D:D:D

Keep going back to the OSRS vs RS3 issue doesn't mean anything to the top and bottom line of Jagex whatsoever as I mentioned numerous times both OSRS and RS3 members are under the same subscription. :D:D:D:D:D:D

Runecoins can't be used in game, TH, buy subscription, etc. They can only be used to buy SGS items. It is a SGS specific currency. Low runecoin sales figure shows clearly low SGS sales. The other way to buy some specific SGS items is through Loyalty Points, which is limited to only membership, not MTX.

Sorry all those invisible claims without any real world data, let alone Jagex official financial information, simply clearly can't deny the simple fact that TH which makes up of 26% of Jagex's 2017 total revenue, is in par with the 25% of all the global video games which is projected to be going to 29% within 4 years according to the Juniper Research. :D:D:D:D:D:D

04-Jun-2018 20:55:29 - Last edited on 04-Jun-2018 21:11:46 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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"The point I was making with that statement is that bonds represent MTX that is available through OSRS. As OSRS's population increases, so too will the purchases of bonds for OSRS, and so too will the percentage of bond's contributing to the total MTX revenue. Sorry if that wasn't made clear enough for you."


We players, again, don't know how many of these Jagex paid members are from RS3 or OSRS. Only Jagex knows. But whether these OSRS or RS3 players buy bonds, they are all good and their purchases count toward the same Bond revenue put down on their financial report. The bottom line remains it doesn't matter to Jagex if OSRS or RS3 players buy Bonds because it is the same money they are treated equally in their financial reports.

And the fact is the revenue from RS3 and OSRS players combined on Bond was still less than the revenue from TH that only RS3 playes opened their wallets for. So even if you insist, all the money from Bond Jagex reported in 2017 all came from OSRS, it was still less than the revenue from the RS3 only TH. :D:D:D

"False, runecoins can also be used in certain events in the "fallen nihil" style. If anything it also shows that those events have done very little to boost runecoin purchases."


That revenue is part of "the others", which is not more than only 1.3 mil pounds. It is not even half of the already low 2.4 mil pounds from Runecoin. Besides, goods from these couple of small MTX sales events were the similar or even the same cosmetic items from SGS, not the xp boosts lamps/stars/protean and common resources from TH. Even if you combine the revenue of "the others" and runecoin, they are still only 17% of TH. :D:D:D

04-Jun-2018 22:16:30

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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***
IF
*** Jagex doesn't see bonds doing well on RS3/OSRS, they may...

Yes, right...
*** IF ***
... But saying "IF Jagex this" and "IF Jagex that" without being Jagex themselves and without any data showing such "IFs" still don't mean a thing. And even if the "IF" clause happens, what is the "THENs"? It can be anything. Thanks for your comment or "confidence if...." even without actual factual information anyway. :D:D:D

If Runecoin included "fallen nihil" sales and such, then it only means even less players are paying real money to buy SGS items. It only means TH is even more important than SGS. :D:D:D:D:D:D

04-Jun-2018 23:22:49

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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"I'm not sure what prompted this confusing post, but all those examples I mentioned are factual things that have actually already happened. Somehow I think you realize that, though, since you snipped out all the facts and fixated yourself on the word "if." "


Jagex added more usages for bonds not because they thought "if" bonds were not doing well. On the contrary, it has been doing very well but Jagex wanted it to bring in even more money. Same thing with TH. They kept adding new features to TH obviously not because they thought "if TH was not doing well", it was just because they wanted it to make more money.

FACT: TH + Bonds are bringing in more revenue than membership. MTX is more profitable than subscription for Jagex in 2017.
FACT: MTX is doing well, and getting better and better. That's not an "IF", it is a 2017 Jagex Financial Reoprt FACT. :D:D:D

"It absolutely does include fallen nihil. Actually.... It even includes people that have bought runecoins, but haven't spent them on anything. Again, the category is "Runecoins," Not SGS. If the category was SGS specific, it would be leaving out all those unspent coins."


Doesn't it remain the same FACT: SGS is not brining in much money, in fact, far less than TH in 2017? It is crystal clear. So much for "remove TH and put everything in SGS? Good thing Jagex did not listen to this "important if". :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

05-Jun-2018 01:13:51 - Last edited on 05-Jun-2018 01:50:29 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu, you are still arguing about semantics without any data of your own. For the 9000 times, it is still your own opinion without any data to support your claim "SGS would of course become more profitable if it had more cosmetics". Where did you get the "of course" from? :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Good thing Jagex knows their business. That's why they made more money from MTX and among MTX, TH gave them more money than the other 2 means in 2017. That's the fact. :D:D:D

Good thing Jagex already told everybody twice TH is here to stay. Good thing Jagex amplied their statement by physically adding TH to the event calendar, hence establishing TH as a regular RS content instead of just a distraction. :D:D:D:D:D:D

Don't like that? Too bad but nothing you can do except don't pay TH and don't look at the TH events in the calendar. :D:D:D:D:D:D

22-Jun-2018 17:26:35

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu, in other words, you still have no real data to show but just your own hypothetical scenario.

You still don't realize Jagex doesn't care who play RS3, OSRS, both, or none as long as they pay.

And you are still here in the RS3 forums and not in the OSRS3 ones but just look up the Calendar please... Uh oh... TH is still running and you are still here. :D:D:D:D:D:D

27-Jun-2018 04:47:25

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
You still don't realize Jagex doesn't care who play RS3, OSRS, both, or none as long as they pay.


And as long as they pay, jagex doesn't care if it's TH or Runecoins making the money, do they? ;) Thus remove TH and put the cosmetics there.


But "they" are paying 9 times in TH than Runecoins, so TH is here... and let me remind you, you can see the TH promotions in the in game Calendar.

They are running Boneyard now. Don't miss it the opportunity. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

28-Jun-2018 01:09:08

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
You still don't realize Jagex doesn't care who play RS3, OSRS, both, or none as long as they pay.


And as long as they pay, jagex doesn't care if it's TH or Runecoins making the money, do they? ;) Thus remove TH and put the cosmetics there.


But "they" are paying 9 times in TH than Runecoins, so TH is here... and let me remind you, you can see the TH promotions in the in game Calendar.

They are running Boneyard now. Don't miss it the opportunity. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D


Seems like TH isn't making enough money, time to get your battlepass.


Of course companies are already looking to make even more money. Nobody ever make "enough" money when they can make more.

PUBG made $700 mil in 2017 but of course that' s not enough so they put in Battle Pass last week.

Time to get your TH keys
AND
Runepass. :D:D:D

30-Jun-2018 01:35:52

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Of course companies are already looking to make even more money. Nobody ever make "enough" money when they can make more.

PUBG made $700 mil in 2017 but of course that' s not enough so they put in Battle Pass last week.

Time to get your TH keys
AND
Runepass. :D:D:D
An apt comparison to a dying game ;)


A "dying" game with $700 mil revenue in 2017? And it just added $700k a day more revenue from mobile apps sales they just started the Battle Pass on a week ago. :D:D:D

Although Jagex is good very good last year financial already, I think they want to be such a "dying" game for a $700 mil a year revenue. :D:D:D:D:D:D

30-Jun-2018 01:56:32

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Draco Burnz said:
Miu said:
I thought that was a good thing?


Yes but how can you compare one thing to another when one of said things dont exist?


8realms doesn't exist anymore but I can easily compare its aggressive MTX methods with runescape's.


Funorb doesn't exist any more and it had no MTX whatsoever. RS Classic will soon cease to exist and it also has no MTX whatsoever. Why just compare any game to 8Realms but not all the games in Funorb and RSC? :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

30-Jun-2018 03:32:24

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Funorb doesn't exist any more and it had no MTX whatsoever. RS Classic will soon cease to exist and it also has no MTX whatsoever. Why just compare any game to 8Realms but not all the games in Funorb and RSC?


Why did Funorb and RSC die? Lack of players and lack of monetization strategies.

Why did 8realms and transformers universe die? Over aggressive monetization strategies at expense of the game. Which of those two situations sounds closer to RS3's situation? The player count speaks for itself, I'm sure you can figure it out. ;)


Who said that? And based on what? A person's opinion based on data provided by Santa Claus and Bugs Bunny? :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

02-Jul-2018 23:36:32

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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LOL@"Winding down" x 9000!!!. Perhaps Santa Clause said that. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

RunePass certainly can't get membership. RunePass certainly can't get TH keys and there'll be no instant mega xp for the Biggies. RunePass certainly can't get the actually useful SGS items like bank slots and keepsakes. And more importantly, those who only want instant xp, gp and good looking cosmetics without playing the game much certainly won't benefit.

Sure, it is a blessing in disguise for Jagex, as it is an extra MTX way for more revenue, ala the PUBG style. Words of Wisdom: you never have enough ways to make enough money. :D:D:D

However as a player, I like RunePass although I don't spend RC for it in this cosmetics "only" stage. It gives me an option though. More choices are always good. :):):)

03-Jul-2018 22:31:16 - Last edited on 03-Jul-2018 22:33:14 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
LOL@"Winding down" x 9000!!!. Perhaps Santa Clause said that.

RunePass certainly can't get membership. RunePass certainly can't get TH keys and there'll be no instant mega xp for the Biggies. RunePass certainly can't get the actually useful SGS items like bank slots and keepsakes. And more importantly, those who only want instant xp, gp and good looking cosmetics without playing the game much certainly won't benefit.

Sure, it is a blessing in disguise for Jagex, as it is an extra MTX way for more revenue, ala the PUBG style. Words of Wisdom: you never have enough ways to make enough money. :D:D:D

However as a player, I like RunePass although I don't spend RC for it in this cosmetics "only" stage. It gives me an option though. More choices are always good.


Once again, you completely ignore both the context and the content of my post to post some long-winded irrelevancies and platitudes concerning profitability.

Mod Osborne claimed that RunePass is a 'test to see if we can pull back from other things like Treasure Hunter." Pulling back, winding down, either way we didn't see a TH promo this week, and as a successor to fallen nihil style events, this should sell more runecoins and inject less XP into the game.

While I'm not happy with Runepass at its current state (specifically awarding fallen star and lamps, among other items), it holds promise in raising that low runecoin bottom line you're so concerned about. ;) Which in turn lessens TH promotions, as has already been proven this week.


Again, you are arguing about meaning of words and semantics again? But sorry, I have no interest in it whatsoever.

Just to be exactly clear, what I meant was TH is not going away. TH is continued to be promoted. Jagex never said they won't sell TH keys anymore. And the reason? Because TH is 26% of their revenue, almost 10 times as much as RC. :D:D:D

06-Jul-2018 02:00:27

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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NeuralNet said:
TH promos will stay and RunePass also. They will also start selling game context like quests and new areas. You heard it here first.


It is just pay for DLC, not at all an original idea. Jagex actually expressed once they have thought about releasing regions like "The Arc" as expansions but backed off.

Not too surprising the idea of pay for DLC will return to Jagex some time later, and within that idea, why can't there be a Quest+ package? ;)

As long as it is accessible with existing currencies and not a big must pay real world $$$ price, I don't see any problem. :D:D:D

06-Jul-2018 02:51:23

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Miu said:
Once again, you completely ignore both the context and the content of my post to post some long-winded irrelevancies and platitudes concerning profitability.

Mod Osborne claimed that RunePass is a 'test to see if we can pull back from other things like Treasure Hunter." Pulling back, winding down, either way we didn't see a TH promo this week, and as a successor to fallen nihil style events, this should sell more runecoins and inject less XP into the game.

While I'm not happy with Runepass at its current state (specifically awarding fallen star and lamps, among other items), it holds promise in raising that low runecoin bottom line you're so concerned about. ;) Which in turn lessens TH promotions, as has already been proven this week.


Again, you are arguing about meaning of words and semantics again? But sorry, I have no interest in it whatsoever.

Just to be exactly clear, what I meant was TH is not going away. TH is continued to be promoted. Jagex never said they won't sell TH keys anymore. And the reason? And the reason? Because TH is 26% of their revenue, almost 10 times as much as RC
I haven't argued any semantics in that post, so you may wish to read it over a few times and try to get a grip on what my post actually says and not what you think it says.

And, just like you state, runecoins aren't making as much money, and thus runepass is set to raise the runecoin to TH ratio in terms of profitability.


Just to tell you can say "pulling back" is the same as "winding down", but I have no interest to even talk about that. You can go ask an English professor if you like though.

There is still nothing to show "runepass is set to raise the runecoin to TH ratio in terms of profitability". Can you show proof please. :D:D:D:D:D:D

06-Jul-2018 03:43:01

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Miu said:
I haven't argued any semantics in that post, so you may wish to read it over a few times and try to get a grip on what my post actually says and not what you think it says.

And, just like you state, runecoins aren't making as much money, and thus runepass is set to raise the runecoin to TH ratio in terms of profitability.


Just to tell you can say "pulling back" is the same as "winding down", but I have no interest to even talk about that. You can go ask an English professor if you like though.
Once again, you're ignoring context. That statement was actually a dismissal of your attempt to argue semantics. You may wish to practice what you preach, and stop taking issue with specific language. You can ask me for clarification (which I did provide if you tried reading the post in context instead of claiming I was arguing semantics). You can also ask your teacher what words mean, if you really need to.

Dilbert2001 said:
LOL@"Winding down" x 9000!!!.


Dilbert2001 said:
There is still nothing to show "runepass is set to raise the runecoin to TH ratio in terms of profitability". Can you show proof please.
Mod Osborne has claimed runepass is a success, we'll see some numbers once the event is over :)


Fine. Go ask an English Professors on meanings of words or phrases then.

Can you please explain how Osborne's comment that RunePass was a "success" translates to "runepass is set to raise the runecoin to TH ratio in terms of profitability" please? :D:D:D

06-Jul-2018 17:16:43

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Can you please explain how Osborne's comment that RunePass was a "success" translates to "runepass is set to raise the runecoin to TH ratio in terms of profitability" please? :D:D:D
I'm sure you can figure it out yourself.


Sure I have already figured it out easily. Even Santa Claus and Bugs Bunny can't show any factual data. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

12-Jul-2018 22:55:01

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Sure I have already figured it out easily. Even Santa Claus and Bugs Bunny can't show any factual data.
Could you stay on topic instead of bringing up whatever cartoons you're watching at the moment? Thanks.


Of course I am 100% on topic. Can you please stay on topic and provide the FACTUAL DATA that shows how "well" is RunePass doing to Jagex comparing to TH? :D:D:D

Even more on topic. TH is still running. Enjoy your
CELEBRATION
Lamps. :D:D:D

13-Jul-2018 00:07:28

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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When you see people crying a river about not getting continuous anti-MTX support from the most players and beg for help in Reddit and such, you know the community is telling you the truth - either they don't care about TH and other MTX, or they know it won't matter at all no matter how many pillows they wet.

This is like Larry, Moe and Curly going to McDonald and trying to order Cabbage Burger Super Value meals but the person taking their orders will just say "Next on line"... and the next on line will say "Big Mac Super Value Meals, super size, add an extra order of fries". :D:D:D

22-Jul-2018 18:15:09 - Last edited on 22-Jul-2018 18:17:47 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Runelower said:
Now that RS3 playerbase is tanking how hard it is to see the root cause of this?


"RuneScape launched all the way back in 2001 and it’s Jagex’s best known title, even after all of this time. Does this put Jagex in a unique position in the industry?" - MCV Magazine

"Yes, for sure.
RuneScape is one of the longest standing MMORPGs, and the fact the community is still growing says a lot for the investment our players have made in the RuneScape universe and the community.
" Jagex's CEO Mr. Phil Mansell

https://www.mcvuk.com/business/jagexs-mansell-on-why-its-community-is-everything

Sorry to disappoint some people, but RS3 is still growing. Perhaps many people love TH and MTX. :D:D:D

03-Aug-2018 17:50:30

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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scousy said:
Runelower said:
From 40k to 24k active players in a couple of years is not "growing"


Rs3 gets 28-29k players a day on weekdays 30k a day on saturdays and 32k a day on sundays. Players per day does not mean those are the only active players. They don't play runescape 8 hours a day. I would say double xp weekends give us more incite on the active rs3 playerbase, which is 60k in peak hours. However as more players get 5.4b xp th will become useless to them, allowing them to quit faster. All those players at 5.4b may not have used to for 5.4b but the fact it becomes useless for them will make less incentive to use th.


Correct that average gamers don't play online games 8 hours a day. For instance, Statista shows in 2017, USA gamers spent way less than an hour a day on video games.

The player online counter on top of the website doesn't show the total game population. Jmod Rowley already addressed it.

04-Aug-2018 21:34:26

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Keep showing the same numbers from the same unofficial site not related to Jagex doesn't show the fact that Jagex CEO said RS3 is still growing.

In fact, real world statistics from various data research firms related to the gaming industry suggested players on the average are only spending less than 1 hour a day playing games nowadays. For instance,

https://www.limelight.com/resources/white-paper/state-of-online-gaming-2018/#spend

https://www.statista.com/statistics/789835/average-daily-time-playing-games-us-by-age/

Suppose there are 2 games A and B. Game A has 600k players who only play 1 hour a day, slightly higher then an average gamer does and Game B has 150k players who play 8 hours a day. What does it mean?

Well, on an average day, we will see Game A with an average of 25k players online while Game B will see a 50k player average.

Which game has the bigger active population? Of course, Game A has 4 times the actual population of Game B although some unofficial tools from an unofficial source will show Game B has twice as many "concurrent players" than Game A. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

06-Aug-2018 21:55:47 - Last edited on 06-Aug-2018 21:57:27 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Suppose there are 2 games A and B. Game A has 600k players who only play 1 hour a day, slightly higher then an average gamer does and Game B has 150k players who play 8 hours a day. What does it mean?

Well, on an average day, we will see Game A with an average of 25k players online while Game B will see a 50k player average.

Which game has the bigger active population? Of course, Game A has 4 times the actual population of Game B although some unofficial tools from an unofficial source will show Game B has twice as many "concurrent players" than Game A.


Suppose there are 2 games, A and B. Game A has 480k players who play 1 hour a day.
Game B has 900k players who play 2 hours a day.

Well, on an average day, we will see Game A with an average of 20k players online, while Game B will see a 75k average. Which game has the bigger active population? Of course, Game B has over twice as many times the population of Game A, despite Game B playing for longer each day, and also in spite of the delusional cries of Game A's sycophants. ;)


Thank you very much x 9000!!! You just completely absolutely entirely totally 100% destroyed and discredited the accuracy of any claim of any "concurrent player" numbers not from an official Jagex source as the actual total population of Jagex. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

06-Aug-2018 22:12:00

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:


Hey look, taken directly from the homepage. I'll let you figure it out on your own. I even did the scary math for ya!


Stop lying to yourself. You know very well from your last post that the "supposition" of how many hours your so called "concurrent players" in Game B can mean totally different things for the actual population of Game B.

To further your argument, please show how many hours do these OSRS players play on the average in an average day first. And don't forget to show the source. Don't just tell us it was "2 hours". It can be 8 hours, 24 hours, or if you really insist... 1 hour. But regardless, without any extra information, your argument is totally, absolutely, completely, 100% discredited, shattered and destroyed already. :D:D:D:D:D:D

06-Aug-2018 23:27:41

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu, you have shown no facts. That's are not Jagex facts. They are not Jagex official numbers.

If you insist, I will go through Jagex again to examine all the real facts.

Just tell us which of what you said are official Jagex "facts" and I will go through the Jagex and Fukong Interactive route, or just shut up and stop calling hypothetical things and suppositions FACTS.

06-Aug-2018 23:50:31 - Last edited on 06-Aug-2018 23:52:45 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:


Hey look, taken directly from the homepage. I'll let you figure it out on your own. I even did the scary math for ya!


The facts in question can be found at the top of any runescape.com webpage. Hope this clears things up for you!


Yes, the fact and only fact that is shown on the top of any runescape.com webpage is just the current number of Jagex playes, not their total population. That we all know and has been clarified by Jmod Rowley.

https://i.redditmedia.com/ti9vhhVvaPhd7RyreyTWYcWdrnJ8hy0JKyox4mjrr98.png?s=a5e834fa27ea36c3c1806972f21a56c9

07-Aug-2018 00:01:15

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Miu said:
Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:


Hey look, taken directly from the homepage. I'll let you figure it out on your own. I even did the scary math for ya!


The facts in question can be found at the top of any runescape.com webpage. Hope this clears things up for you!


Yes, the fact and only fact that is shown on the top of any runescape.com webpage is just the current number of Jagex playes, not their total population. That we all know and has been clarified by Jmod Rowley.

https://i.redditmedia.com/ti9vhhVvaPhd7RyreyTWYcWdrnJ8hy0JKyox4mjrr98.png?s=a5e834fa27ea36c3c1806972f21a56c9


Stop strawmanning. No one ever claimed concurrent players were the total population.


Good whatsoever then.

There is still no sign to show RS3 population is declining, right? If not, show it then. There is still no sign to show OSRS has more actual players then, right? If not, show it then. :D:D:D

07-Aug-2018 00:06:52 - Last edited on 07-Aug-2018 00:08:01 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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TH is not going to be removed for the very obvious $$$ reason.

TH is obviously still going and everybody can see in game. Mark your calendar.

Jagex is actually making TH a better and better deal by the week. This week, we see Prismania being upgraded with bonus xp in the last 2 days.

A week or 2 earlier, Umbral Chests debuted alongside TH keys in Twitch Prime offers.

Players love loot boxes, and Jagex know it well. :)

09-Aug-2018 21:46:03 - Last edited on 09-Aug-2018 21:55:38 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
TH is not going to be removed for the very obvious $$$ reason.
TH is not the sole form of microtransactions revenue, yet it's the one that has the heaviest impact on the game in terms of content and "integrity." If jagex wants to see active players rise up, then TH is the one to go. It's all a matter of what's worth more. A few whales, or an active playerbase. Currently Jagex is opting for the former, but it cannot last forever.

Dilbert2001 said:
TH is obviously still going and everybody can see in game. Mark your calendar.

Jagex is actually making TH a better and better deal by the week. This week, we see Prismania being upgraded with bonus xp in the last 2 days.

A week or 2 earlier, Umbral Chests made debuted alongside TH keys
Have they? I didn't notice. Seems Jagex has no longer been posting in the Treasure Hunter forums, nor have they posted treasure hunter updates on the main page in over a month. Seems like they finally realized that aggressive MTX is a bad look. Of course, they're still addicted to that pay2win $, but it's a small step.


LOL. Check your in game Calendar, and as I mentioned... check the prizes. They have become bigger and bigger. :D:D:D

09-Aug-2018 22:03:45

Dilbert2001

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"I haven't logged in a while, I'm betting I am still forced to see the treasure hunter dialogue box every new day. Why can't that be toggled off?"


You can't because it is fun and an important game feature and Jagex don't want you to miss any fun game features.

Everybody always sees TH among other game features and news on the last GUI before he clicks the "login" button to get into the game too. You simply can't turn these important news and game feature reminders off.

Turning these reminders off won't take TH out of your mind anyway because you are going to get free TH key token drop from playing the game anyway.

Jagex just want you to have fun with all the interesting game features, and TH is one of them. :D

10-Aug-2018 15:23:19 - Last edited on 10-Aug-2018 15:34:46 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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"In a way it is, yes, but Jagex didn't do it with good intentions. In its current state, RS3 is like moldy bread; it's good normally, but TH (mold) is ruining it. What Jagex did here was remove the TH news posts (moldy bits that appear on the surface of the bread) to fool new and possibly returning players into buying membership for a game with predatory MTX (bread that looks okay on the outside, but has mold on the inside still).

So as sad as it sounds, whilst TH remains in the game, we should have TH news posts on the website, to prevent naive players from getting tricked into buying something else than they thought they did."


There are still plenty of TH news and reminders on the login GUI, bouncing TH chest, in game calendar as well as the free TH key token drop from in game activities. Besides, Jagex announced promotions like Double Key month on their main website and Twitch Prime offers in partner sites. Jagex doesn't intend to "hide" any TH news.

If you think
"we should have TH news posts on the website"
, I don't see why not? :D:D:D

10-Aug-2018 16:04:12

Dilbert2001

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"I just wonder if the lack of announcements is their new policy going forward, in an attempt to avoid backlash, or if it's just during this content drought so it doesn't look like TH has been the only update bigger than a patch for a while."

New policy? I think it is more like new marketing tactics. There are only a handful of players in the forums. It is a lot more worthwhile to shift the marketing focus to attract the players who actually play the game. That's why you see not just the original login GUI but also the In-Game-Calendar with TH promotions well documented on it.

I don't think TH is ever meant to be a "big update". You can see from the size of the product team. It is a small effort with big, really big return game content. Good idea for Jagex obviously.

There is no "content drought" regarding TH neither. Boneyard, released in June, is a new TH promotion. There have also been patches to TH offers too, like the Double Dragon Chests have found their ways into the Mysteria Promo, and Primania saw the last 2 days of the event rewarding extra XP the last 2 promo too.

10-Aug-2018 16:21:49 - Last edited on 10-Aug-2018 16:23:16 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
"I just wonder if the lack of announcements is their new policy going forward, in an attempt to avoid backlash, or if it's just during this content drought so it doesn't look like TH has been the only update bigger than a patch for a while."

New policy? I think it is more like new marketing tactics. There are only a handful of players in the forums. It is a lot more worthwhile to shift the marketing focus to attract the players who actually play the game. That's why you see not just the original login GUI but also the In-Game-Calendar with TH promotions well documented on it.

I don't think TH is ever meant to be a "big update". You can see from the size of the product team. It is a small effort with big, really big return game content. Good idea for Jagex obviously.

There is no "content drought" regarding TH neither. Boneyard, released in June, is a new TH promotion. There have also been patches to TH offers too, like the Double Dragon Chests have found their ways into the Mysteria Promo, and Primania saw the last 2 days of the event rewarding extra XP the last 2 promo too.


I was discussing the Runescape homepage, not the forum.


Same idea. The Runescape website doesn't draw many visitors and therefore potential TH keys customers, so Jagex switched the marketing focus to in-game features like the Calendar. The game is most of the Runescape playes are, not the Runescape website.

10-Aug-2018 16:42:59

Dilbert2001

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Hmm... Jagex Partners seem to be thinking this other way:

"Jagex Partners will offer publishing and operational services tailored specifically to the needs of third-party studios, it said. Partner studios can also integrate their games with Jagex’s proprietary tech platform and live operations ecosystem, which includes player account management and authentication, monetization, virtual currency management, distribution, hosting, and player insight tools."


https://variety.com/2018/gaming/news/jagex-partners-announced-1202905952/

Jagex is inviting more Partners to monetize their games alongside Runescape. :D

16-Aug-2018 17:31:15

Dilbert2001

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Veterans already have many many many more unfair advantages over newer players already. There are always things in the Loyalty Point shop that new players won't get before they play the game for years. There are also discontinued and rare items new players won't get now or ever.

Even the newest players who only use their free daily keys, they still have the chance to get everything a Bill Gates who buys 9000 million TH keys with real money can get, only that their chance is lower.

Video games are not always fair to all players. They give "unfair advantages" to players just like real world events all give "unfair advantages" to real world people. Jagex is a real world business. They can give "unfair advantages" to customers who pay (TH key buyers, veterans etc) just like McDonald's can give "unfair advantages" to customers who buy more Happy Meals. :D

TH is bringing in great money for Jagex just as loot boxes are brining in great money for the video game industry. That's why you see the business enjoying this kind of loot box success and keep sharing the fun with more players.

The latest UKIE stand in Gamescom 2018 shows you how happy they are with Loot Boxes:

"SPONSORS...UK Drinks Reception (Jagex), UK Game of the Show (Little Big PR), Morning Pastries (Pole to Win), Juice Bar (Take Off), Coffee & compostable cups (Amiqus), Ice Cream (OPM), Candy Floss (Playstack),
Hook a loot box
(HiRez), Drinks coasters (Revolution)"



https://ukie.org.uk/event/2018/08/21/uk-stand-gamescom-2018

That's right! UKIE loves Loot Boxes and they know you are hooked too. And don't forget leading off the UKIE Gamescom 2018 Sponsors this year is your beloved Jagex. :D

Have fun with your TH and other loot boxes. UKIE and the video game industry know you love them too. :D:D:D

26-Aug-2018 17:38:55 - Last edited on 26-Aug-2018 21:21:52 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Lord Bucket said:
"TH is bringing in great money for Jagex just as loot boxes are brining in great money for the video game industry. That's why you see the business enjoying this kind of loot box success and keep sharing the fun with more players."

Moment of silence for my neighbors who cannot enjoy some of that lootbox success, and the sharing of its fun :( Sucks to be a player in Belgium.


What? It certainly doesn't "suck" to be a Runescape player in Belgium. :D:D:D:D:D:D

05-Sep-2018 16:22:22

Dilbert2001

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Lord Bucket said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Lord Bucket said:
"TH is bringing in great money for Jagex just as loot boxes are brining in great money for the video game industry. That's why you see the business enjoying this kind of loot box success and keep sharing the fun with more players."

Moment of silence for my neighbors who cannot enjoy some of that lootbox success, and the sharing of its fun :( Sucks to be a player in Belgium.


What? It certainly doesn't "suck" to be a Runescape player in Belgium. :D:D:D:D:D:D


That's not what I said, and that's not what you said. You mentioned "the video game industry" and "the business", and "the video game industry" is under a bit of a fire in regards to lootboxes at the moment. Enough so that even Shadow of War has had them removed. They wouldn't do that if they were simply "sharing the fun with other players". They had to rebalance the game after removing this "optional content".


Tip: don't put an obnoxious amount of smileys in your replies, it's hard to take someone serious when they do. Makes it appear more as if you're trolling, and I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Edit: Forgot to add "videogame" to "the industry".


Tips: If you don't know what the entire video game industry is doing with TH kind of loot boxes and you don't see Elite Skilling Outfits is the current promotion in Runescape, it makes it more as if you're trolling, and I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Extra tip in case if you missed it:

The latest UKIE stand in Gamescom 2018 shows you how happy they are with Loot Boxes:

"SPONSORS...UK Drinks Reception (Jagex)...HookALootbox(Hirez)


Now, that's what the video game INDUSTRY tells you.

05-Sep-2018 17:39:06 - Last edited on 05-Sep-2018 17:42:50 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Lord Bucket said:
"The latest UKIE stand in Gamescom 2018 shows you how happy they are with Loot Boxes:

"SPONSORS...UK Drinks Reception (Jagex)...HookALootbox(Hirez)

Do you also remember when Hirez tried to implement lootboxes in Paladins? They ended up removing them due to the backlash they've received.


I am simply telling you that UKIE embraces Loot Box obviously. And that's the INDUSTRY speaking, not just one game or one company

BTW, Treasure Chests are still in Paladins. So are different kinds of loot boxes still in different Hi-Rez games. :)

05-Sep-2018 18:39:43

Dilbert2001

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Lord Bucket said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Lord Bucket said:
"The latest UKIE stand in Gamescom 2018 shows you how happy they are with Loot Boxes:

"SPONSORS...UK Drinks Reception (Jagex)...HookALootbox(Hirez)

Do you also remember when Hirez tried to implement lootboxes in Paladins? They ended up removing them due to the backlash they've received.


I am simply telling you that UKIE embraces Loot Box obviously. And that's the INDUSTRY speaking, not just one game or one company

BTW, Treasure Chests are still in Paladins. So are different kinds of loot boxes still in different Hi-Rez games. :)


No, I disagree with that. UKIE is part of the industry, yes. But it's not THE industry.


More on the INDUSTRY part for you to disagree with:

"ESA: We can't go to the "lowest common denominator of government" on loot boxes"


https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2018-05-25-esa-we-cant-go-to-the-lowest-common-denominator-of-government-on-loot-boxes

Why don't you show us where the video game "industry" shows they are against loot boxes? But first you better tell us where do you find this "industry" first. :D

05-Sep-2018 18:53:52

Dilbert2001

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Lord Bucket said:
"Why don't you show us where the video game "industry" shows they are against loot boxes? But first you better tell us where do you find this "industry" first. :D"

According to you, UKIE is the industry speaking, so you should already know what I meant with this "industry" ;) But again, the industry consists of more than just UKIE.

Anyways, it's been fun :) Have a good night/day


What's the fun? You have yet to even put up a word from your so called "industry" that's against loot boxes.

The fact is we should all know the video game industry is all for not just loot boxes but all kinds of MTX.

In case if you are still in the dark, PEGI is going to implement the same in-game purchase label by the end of this year that ESRB mentioned but have yet to act on. What it means is loot boxes are going to be treated like all the other in-game purchases according to the industry's rating standard. Games with loot boxes are not different in ratings than games with paid expansions, music track downloads, cosmetic skins, subscription, etc. :D

05-Sep-2018 21:01:31

Dilbert2001

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Seeing this thread is over a year old but TH is not only still here, but promotions have been non-stop and more importantly to Jagex, they are getting more profitable.

So... what does this thread achieve? Well, I don't know, especially even OP has not posted again in not just this thread but the entire forums since May. TH is certainly not removed... not sure if OP removed himself though.

Anyway, the trend of the industry is a lot more players who don't mind TH and MTX are going to far more than replace the haters who remove themselves. :)

07-Sep-2018 18:18:24 - Last edited on 07-Sep-2018 18:20:44 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Runelower said:
OP certainly didnt remove himself, just focused on other pressing issues elsewhere.

And this thread going strong just proves what cancer MTX is and how much people hate it.


Going strong? You mean MTX and Jagex's profits? :D:D:D

Despite how much people "hate" MTX, they still spend a lot of time playing this game, even after they are maxed.

08-Sep-2018 02:35:09

Dilbert2001

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Emilia Gloom said:
Treasure hunter removes the goal-oriented nature of RS. It's often not worth spending time obtaining cool items from in-game activities. The option of charging money to a card renders it mostly worthless, especially when the purchasable items are better in multiple ways.


You can't buy a Solak kill from TH. You can't buy Runescaore from TH. You can't buy a Royal Dragon from TH. You can't buy a lot of achievements from TH. Mostly, you win some XP from TH but there are >9000 things you can do in this game that are not related to XP.

TH not worth the money? Perhaps that's why the Live Event Team put up a blog to show their plan to give players better value from TH:

"Providing better value

For us, TH should always feel like a benefit when used, and we feel that the value of what it offers needs to be addressed properly. Recently we've been bringing back and testing various different promotions and initiatives in Treasure Hunter. "
:D

http://services.runescape.com/m=forum/c=CHud7uEnj-4/forums.ws?366,367,972,66022457

11-Sep-2018 16:52:50

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/09/ea-defies-belgian-loot-box-decision-setting-up-potential-gambling-lawsuit/


Very interesting article :)


Yes, very interesting article. It only means EA is willing to spend more $$$ on legal fees than they will otherwise lose on taking away loot boxes from Belgium. They must have a reason to spend more $$$ and many years of time. ;)

Most likely, their Sports community called for it. Likewise, the 2K Games Sports community voiced their opinions. :D:D:D

19-Sep-2018 16:54:22

Dilbert2001

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Dilbert2001 said:
Miu said:
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/09/ea-defies-belgian-loot-box-decision-setting-up-potential-gambling-lawsuit/


Very interesting article :)


Yes, very interesting article. It only means EA is willing to spend more $$$ on legal fees than they will otherwise lose on taking away loot boxes from Belgium. They must have a reason to spend more $$$ and many years of time. ;)

Most likely, their Sports community called for it. Likewise, the 2K Games Sports community voiced their opinions. :D:D:D


Bump for TH and don't forget the Hydra Lamps this week. :)

04-Oct-2018 18:29:50 - Last edited on 04-Oct-2018 18:31:21 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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UrekMazino said:
Draco Burnz said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Yes, very interesting article. It only means EA is willing to spend more $$$ on legal fees than they will otherwise lose on taking away loot boxes from Belgium. They must have a reason to spend more $$$ and many years of time.

Most likely, their Sports community called for it. Likewise, the 2K Games Sports community voiced their opinions.

EA's FIFA 19 physical sales lower by 25% compared to last year. Their decision sure as hell paid off and the players sure as hell voiced their opinions :)


LOL. Check it out again, it was FIFA 19's Physical sales in its first few days (3 days) comparing to FIFA 18 and only in UK, and the reason was mainly because of the shift to digital sales, Fortnite and strong FIFA 18 sales.

FIFA 19 was released in Sept 28, 2018 just a few days ago. :D:D:D

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-10-01-fifa-19-launch-physical-sales-down-25-percent-on-fifa-18

In fact, a few more days later, FIFA 19 is found to be the best selling game of the week in UK when digital sales is putting into the equation.

http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2018/10/uk_sales_charts_fifa_19_is_already_the_biggest_game_of_the_year

And it was also revealed weirdly, only 1% of the retail sales came from Switch. Perhaps Switch sales reporting was delayed too.

05-Oct-2018 16:04:45 - Last edited on 05-Oct-2018 19:47:04 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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UrekMazino said:
Dilbert2001 said:

Article you linked also said that physical copy sales are down by 25%, so what I said is still completely factually correct :D:D:D


LOL. Check it out again, it was FIFA 19's Physical sales in its first few days (3 days) comparing to FIFA 18 and only in UK, and the reason was mainly because of the shift to digital sales, Fortnite and strong FIFA 18 sales.



"EA's FIFA 19 physical sales lower by 25% compared to last year"
is definitely completely factually wrong.


What really matters is FIFA 19 is beating everybody in UK in its first week:

UK Sales Charts: Week Ending 29th September, 2018
FIFA 19
Marvel's Spider-Man
Shadow of the Tomb Raider
Crash Bandicoot: N. Sane Trilogy
Grand Theft Auto V
Mario Kart 8: Deluxe
The Elder Scrolls Online
NBA 2K19
Valkyria Chronicles 4
Minecraft: Xbox Edition

06-Oct-2018 02:56:00

Dilbert2001

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Not just FIFA 19 is again the King of the Hill in UK last week, FIFA 18 is still incredible strong - with total sales of 24 million copies in just 12 months, or an average of just 2 million copies per month.

"EA Sports has announced that its latest FIFA entry, FIFA 18, has sold over 24 million copies globally since its release in September of last year."


https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2018-09-05-fifa-18-sells-over-24-million-copies

Of course, without players the gamers who bought the FIFA boxes can't win a game. And the Ultimate Packs gave EA titanic profits.

Remove Ultimate Packs? No way to EA. Remove TH? No way will Jagex prosper without $30 mil a year and growing revenue. :D

07-Oct-2018 15:16:55

Dilbert2001

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Runelower said:

TH was introduced with the removal of bots to replace the revenue stream, but seeing JAGEX more profitable than ever is it really needed anymore? Can revenue from bonds for membership replace the major negative impact MTX has on the game.


If is official that revenue from Bonds (note: Bonds for membership + TH keys + Runecoins combined, not just Bonds for membership) is only 45% of Jagex 2017 total MTX revenue. Bonds for memberships definitely can't replace the major "negative impact" MTX has on the game.

http://file.finance.sina.com.cn/211.154.219.97:9494/MRGG/CNSESH_STOCK/2018/2018-6/2018-06-02/4491886.PDF

08-Oct-2018 15:17:36

Dilbert2001

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Those who still live in the fantasy but not real world should realize current players online doesn't represent total players. Mod Rowley said it the best here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/92433u/a_solid_positive_jmod_response_to_the_state_of/

RS3 and OSRS membership is just one membership. RS3 and OSRS members are the same members who paid for and can play in both RS3 and OSRS. Jagex make the same amount of money from subscription regardless their players play RS3, OSRS, both or none.

More factual data from RS3 Hiscores also shows a very heathly active and unique player pattern. For instance, just from the one month since Runescores appeared on Hiscores, almost 400k players active and unique players have obviously played in RS3. And don't forget they are only players with >500 Runescores. There are a lot more with <500 Runescores but not showing in the Hiscores yet.

Matt Casey also said 90% of the players who actually play in RS3 enjoy the game despite of the MTX. That's the fact. :D

09-Oct-2018 17:05:54

Dilbert2001

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UrekMazino said:
Dilbert2001 said:
And don't forget they are only players with >500 Runescores. There are a lot more with <500 Runescores but not showing in the Hiscores yet.

Runescore is so easy to get, any raf alt can get 500 runescore in a day.

Dilbert2001 said:
Matt Casey also said 90% of the players who actually play in RS3 enjoy the game despite of the MTX. That's the fact. :D

Keyword: despite. Pretty sad that it needs to be worded that way because it means they are acknowledging that MTX is negatively impacting gameplay experience even if its not enough to ruin it for most.


Alts are still players. And most runescore achievements can't be botted, let alone be botted to get 500 runescaores in one day. :D

MTX Negatively affecting gameplay? How can the 90% of all players in the game enjoy the game daily when MTX is "negatively affecting gameplay"? I guess they must enjoy negative gameplay then. :D:D:D

14-Oct-2018 01:04:29

Dilbert2001

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UrekMazino said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Alts are still players. And most runescore achievements can't be botted, let alone be botted to get 500 runescaores in one day.

Every 10 levels in each skill gives 5 runescores and skills can be botted, might wanna double check next time before posting.

Dilbert2001 said:
MTX Negatively affecting gameplay? How can the 90% of all players in the game enjoy the game daily when MTX is "negatively affecting gameplay"? I guess they must enjoy negative gameplay then.

Some idiot at work made a mistake today and caused you to have to work overtime, does that make your whole life completely miserable?


How many Runescore achievements are solely based on levels? What a petty percentage! You may also want to check out Runescores more carefully. There are 300k+ players with about 1300 Runescores. Even if all of them got every score from skill level, they would have to be level 99 in all skills. Can all these 300k players "botted" to 99 in all skills in one day? :D:D:D

The 90% players who are happy don't care and most likely don't work with the petty 10% who don't enjoy Runescape but still play and post. Who care if they "work overtime". The 90% happy ones come to play Runescape, not to "work". :D:D:D

15-Oct-2018 23:31:37

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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UrekMazino said:
Dilbert2001 said:
How many Runescore achievements are solely based on levels? What a petty percentage! You may also want to check out Runescores more carefully. There are 300k+ players with about 1300 Runescores. Even if all of them got every score from skill level, they would have to be level 99 in all skills. Can all these 300k players "botted" to 99 in all skills in one day?

I did not claim that that was an exhaustive list of bottable runescore, there are of course other achievements that can be botted or accidentally achieved (a bunch of easy/med level achievement diaries can be accidentally achieved by just doing regular low/mid level activities in the area), maybe you'll want to work on your critical thinking skill next time.

Dilbert2001 said:
The 90% players who are happy don't care and most likely don't work with the petty 10% who don't enjoy Runescape but still play and post. Who care if they "work overtime". The 90% happy ones come to play Runescape, not to "work".

How did you... manage to completely miss my point?


Regardless how "big" (chuckle chuckle chuckle) the list of bottable achievements and the 1k-ish runescores they contribute to the almost 30k max runescores, it is easily justified the bare minimum of the 300-350k active players participating in Runescores the last month were not "bots who reached the Achievements Hiscores in one day".

Mod Chicken: "Microtransaction is an integral part of Jagex's business".

And 90% of the players enjoy the game daily. :D

16-Oct-2018 15:36:23

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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UrekMazino said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Regardless how "big" (chuckle chuckle chuckle) the list of bottable achievements and the 1k-ish runescores they contribute to the almost 30k max runescores,

Nice, where did you get that number from? I'm sure its a completely reliable and truthful source and not just a random number you pulled out of thin air.

Dilbert2001 said:
it is easily justified the bare minimum of the 300-350k active players participating in Runescores the last month were not "bots who reached the Achievements Hiscores in one day".

Those 300-350k "active players" only had to log in once last month to get their highscore rank, the didn't have to do anything, since you know, runescore highscore was only implemented very recently.

Dilbert2001 said:
Mod Chicken: "Microtransaction is an integral part of Jagex's business".

And 90% of the players enjoy the game daily.

Just like EA's comment on sense of pride and achievement, no one is buying it.


Those players are clearly shown with unique IDs on the RS3 Achievement Hiscores.

All players count as players, all payers count as payers last month, no matter how many times they log in. :D:D:D

Nobody need to be "buying" whatever comment whoever said. All it matters to Jagex is players are really really BUYING TH with real $$$, almost $30 million of it in Jagex 2017 Fiscal year.

Jagex need not just $30 million from TH. They will need a lot more than that going forward with their much bigger plan of global denomination.

Enjoy TH and other MTX, the integral part of Jagex's Business. That can be a lot bigger especially when Runescape turns global. Look for the first stage to start with G-Star 2018, a month from now in Korea. :D

17-Oct-2018 16:20:04

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Immortalized said:
$30m is like 200k subscribers, which I'm sure is less than what they've lost since introducing th


It is definitely not true according to Jagex's Company House filings.

Since TH started in 2014, Jagex's actually made 44% more on subscription. They gained a lot more from TH, but subscription kept climbing, not dropping. :D

https://i.gyazo.com/1b1d9fc1035cc7dd3ed37be943fb589a.png

17-Oct-2018 16:47:14

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Immortalized said:
yes but they're subscribing to play osrs not rs3

I guess a fairer way to say is they lost 200k rs3 players but gained it in the game that has no form of TH in it. I mean duh.


Runescape members subscribe to play both RS3 and OSRS, not just RS3 or OSRS. It is clearly stated in the term of that product. Regardless what these members play RS3, OSRS, both or none, they still paid and it makes no difference to Jagex's top and bottom lines. In fact, if they play RS3, there is always more chance for Jagex to gain more from MTX. :D

There are hundreds of thousands of recent active players in RS3 as shown clearly from Hiscores like Achievements and Clue Scrolls, even more so than players in the same categories in OSRS Hiscores. :D:D:D

17-Oct-2018 17:08:10

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Hratli said:
Can't say I'm overly fond of Treasure Hunter. It started out as a login incentive but now it's just a pay-to-win / pay-for-convenience mechanic which isn't really in the spirit of the game.

Jagex relies heavily on word-of-mouth for drawing in players so it typically has this cult player base, and by having this pay-for-convenience mechanic it somewhat betrays its player base as if by saying 'you're not enough'.

I can see it being a big reason as to why players would rather play OSRS instead of RS3.


Word-of-mouth? "Cult player base"? Perhaps you need to wake up and see Jagex is turning to main stream players. It is a $1 billion global game developer now. It can't survive on $1 million a year "profit".

Aren't the "cult" OSRS player base going with the flow gradually to main stream channels like Twitch and embracing "pay-to-win" mechanics like Purple Skin too? :D

17-Oct-2018 17:39:45

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Hratli said:
I highly doubt this game is becoming "mainstream". From what I understand its glory days are behind it and if RSFest18 was anything to go by I'm right.


I guess those who just resubscribed recently like in Sept 2018, perhaps you know at least one of them too, think this game still have plenty of glorious days ahead. :D

17-Oct-2018 18:02:41

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Hratli said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Hratli said:
I highly doubt this game is becoming "mainstream". From what I understand its glory days are behind it and if RSFest18 was anything to go by I'm right.


I guess those who just resubscribed recently like in Sept 2018, perhaps you know at least one of them too, think this game still have plenty of glorious days ahead. :D


Well browsing the forums and reddit I've seen a lot of people returning. Not a lot of completely new people though.


There you go... players returning to a game with glorious days ahead obviously. Who care about optional TH or whatever MTX? These things don't really affect actual game plays, they just provide some fun and surprises occasionally. Good stuff that can be had for free too. :D

Most new players will have to come mainly from uncharted regions to Jagex like Asian countries where MTX particularly Gacha is predominantly their primary source of revenues. :D

17-Oct-2018 18:23:48 - Last edited on 17-Oct-2018 18:27:42 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Immortalized said:
u can just look at online player count and osrs topples over rs3, it is clear the lack of TH is crucial in gaining player base. when they introduce TH in osrs you will see the same result


That's totally not true according to Mod Rowley. "Online Player" only means current player online, not total player base.

https://external-preview.redd.it/ti9vhhVvaPhd7RyreyTWYcWdrnJ8hy0JKyox4mjrr98.png?auto=webp&s=8213f38da60f32fe19cb277f388dc3c25b4f7c2f

If somebody just picks some random snapshot of some random numbers and claims osrs "topples over" rs3, why not take the the bigger unique player base in Clue Scroll among other RS3 Hiscores than OSRS and claim RS3 topples over OSRS? :D

Besides, there is no TH in OSRS now, and this thread is not about it whatsoever. Please stay on topic.

18-Oct-2018 01:19:42

Dilbert2001

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Immortalized said:
actually mod rowley said I'm right and dilbery2001 is wrong, more ppl play osrs


Please quote the source. Or else I'll leave this to the Jmods and Fmods through the proper procedure since you are obviously not trying to discuss on topic.

Last time I want to remind you and everybody this thread is not about RS3 vs OSRS and there is no TH in OSRS to remove. Please stay on topic.

18-Oct-2018 15:43:36

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Fortunately, Jagex has finally provided us with some evidence :D And we can finally put to rest some faulty assumptions some have used to argue that RS3 somehow has a higher playerbase than OSRS.

http://file.finance.sina.com.cn/211.154.219.97:9494/MRGG/CNSESH_STOCK/2018/2018-6/2018-06-02/4491886.PDF

According to this, both runescapes have a total of ~765,400 members.

According to the Runefest OSRS presentation, OSRS has 550,000 members.


OSRS accounts for 70% of the total membership.
RS3 accounts for 30%.

94k concurrent players total as of right now.
68k on OSRS. 26k RS3.

72% of the concurrent playercount is OSRS.
28% of the concurrent playercount is RS3.

Is this consistent with our findings using the active playercount? Absolutely, a margin of difference of only 2%, which could be attributed to bots if you wish.

So
70% of the playerbase is OSRS in both concurrent playerbase and in total subscribers.
But only 30% RS3?
Why?

Probably TH. You can debate that. But you can no longer believe or debate that RS3 somehow is more popular through pitiful mental gymnastics, lest you ignore mod rowley and the rest of Jagex :D


OSRS members are RS3 members too. They can also play RS3 too. Being OSRS "members" don't exclude them from being RS3 members. Your numbers still show absolutely nothing about RS3 members. :D

18-Oct-2018 21:53:02

Dilbert2001

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Ashlin107 said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Miu said:



OSRS members are RS3 members too. They can also play RS3 too. Being OSRS "members" don't exclude them from being RS3 members. Your numbers still show absolutely nothing about RS3 members. :D


So you're implying that RS3 is safe because RS3 and OSRS are on the same membership. Well so was RSC and we all know what happened to that game. Plus it's clear Jagex are desprate to maintain player engagement when they are releasing more daily events despite promising to cut down on dailyscape in the year ahead.


Not just sharing the same membership plan, the 550k "OSRS" members don't mean they don't play RS3. Suppose there are 9 RS3 forum users but only 1 for OSRS now, it definitely doesn't mean there are 9 times RS3 forum users to OSRS.

And without these "daily events", RS3 would have like 3 main updates the next 12 months instead of 7 main updates just in this next 3 month Winter season. Also, the RS3 content team would be down to like 20 members instead of 75 now.

19-Oct-2018 16:00:16

Dilbert2001

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Keep spamming the same unofficial Jagex "source" doesn't mean a thing, especially when it contracts your original post that the Jagex OSRS team's claim of 550k OSRS members.

137k + 255k = 392k subscribers only according to your latest post, way way way way way x 9000 below the 550k from the Jagex OSRS team and the 765k from the official Fukong 2017 Financial report.

Meanwhile, the actual official Jagex Seasonal Overall Hiscores show:
34,292 OSRS players
280,159 RS3 players

https://secure.runescape.com/m=hiscore_oldschool_seasonal/overall.ws?category_type=0

https://secure.runescape.com/m=hiscore/ranking?category_type=0&table=0&time_filter=2&date=1539966739881&page=11206

19-Oct-2018 17:33:09

Dilbert2001

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You never said Reddit or whatever. You simply said "Runescape subscription".

"137k /r/runescape subscribers
2,300 online.

255k /r/2007scape subscribers
8,600 online."


Sorry to further correct you. What I quoted the 34,292 OSRS players is from the SEASONAL OSRS Overall Hiscores. I have been comparing RS3 Seasonal Hiscores to OSRS Seasonal Hiscores.

The OSRS Deadman Seasonal Hiscore is here:

"https://secure.runescape.com/m=hiscore_oldschool_deadman/c=eIb7hW0A49k/overall.ws?category_type=0

Even with the key OSRS Deadman event running, the entire duration only drew 288,378 players. Meanwhile, in not even 2/3 of the month of October, RS3 already tallied about the same number of players. :D

19-Oct-2018 17:50:59

Dilbert2001

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So reverting back to spamming the same 550k "OSRS" members and try to pretend all of them don't play RS3?

Too bad,
real life live official Runecape Hiscores
show otherwise.

Want to see
more real life live official Runecape Hiscores
?

What about Clue Scrolls? For instance, elite clues?

220,480 RS3 players
198,915 OSRS players


https://secure.runescape.com/m=hiscore_oldschool/c=JHkm5A2pFgs/overall.ws?category_type=1

https://secure.runescape.com/m=hiscore/c=myAAXdAQ9sk/ranking?category_type=1&table=30&time_filter=0&date=1539969187529&page=8820

Where did all those OSRS "players" go? Strawman eat them? :D:D:D

19-Oct-2018 18:16:02

Dilbert2001

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ELITE STACK said:
Rs3 hiscores have 420k+ in the runescore hiscores needing at least 500 runescore but Hiscores don't mean anything.


Neither does 550k "OSRS" members mean anything to RS3 members since any or all of those 550k "OSRS" members can be active players in RS3 too.

19-Oct-2018 18:27:53

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
ELITE STACK said:
Rs3 hiscores have 420k+ in the runescore hiscores needing at least 500 runescore but Hiscores don't mean anything.


Neither does 550k "OSRS" members mean anything to RS3 members since any or all of those 550k "OSRS" members can be active players in RS3 too.


but they're not active. At least, not playing now :)


Show proof the RS3 members are not active but the OSRS "members" are always "active" please. At least, we all know we don' thave 550k "OSRS" "members" playing now. :D:D:D

19-Oct-2018 18:30:31

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
but they're not active. At least, not playing now :)


Show proof the RS3 members are not active but the OSRS "members" are always "active" please. At least, we all know we don' thave 550k "OSRS" "members" playing now. :D:D:D

Review this post. Or visit oldschool.runescape.com and subtract the OSRS number from the number at the top of this page to get the concurrent RS3 players.

Miu said:
That's what the concurrent player count is for. 70% of the online users are OSRS.
70% of total membership is OSRS.

137k /r/runescape subscribers
2,300 online.

255k /r/2007scape subscribers
8,600 online.

OSRS is larger by every conceivable metric, as has been proven by Jagex's own statistics, community population tracking, financial reports, reddit population and subscriber count, and even the homepage. Apologies that this seems to invalidate your fanfiction and strawman arguments.

Now, are you going to continue making faulty assumptions so you can try to pretend RS3 is more popular? Or are you going to address the issues that are causing RS3 to hemorrhage its playerbase?

[/quote]

You are spamming the same unofficial data over and over and over 9000 times again. They don't show total RS3 and OSRS population. And you even admitted the "Runescape Subscribers" are actually Reddit forum users,
not to be mistaken with actual real life active Runescape players in the games and Hiscores of RS3 and OSRS
. :D

19-Oct-2018 18:39:45

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Only the 550k "OSRS member" are Jagex's words but they do not mean all of those 550k members don't play RS3. That's why we still see so many RS3 players participating in the game as shown in Hiscores. Please don't fake that.

All the other data sources you pulled out are not official Runescape or Jagex data whatsoever. When you first posted the Reddit data you did not specify it whatsoever. If there was "bad faith" it definitely was in your part.

RS3 and OSRS3 Hiscores is official Jagex data on their official websites. Did OSRS players always did 3x, 2x or just flat out more in game than RS3 players when it comes to real activities like skilling and clues? Nope. Hiscores show the fact. Nope. OSRS does not have 3x, 2x, 1.5x, or whatever multiplier you want to pull out than active RS3 participants.

Now, if you have to come to "popularity", I don't disagree more "current player online" may make a game seems like a little more "popular" to some people, but financially speaking (please take a moment to look up what this thread is about first), more "current player online" doesn't translate to more profits to the company. If these concurrent "players" don't play the game and more importantly don't make recurrent payments, they don't mean much to Jagex.

Whether you want to move the goal pole is irrelevant since as a business, I believe Jagex's "goal pole" is how much their players payers give them. And we know the answer from TH alone last year already - it is close to $30 million. If you insist TH is "not popular" so be it. I guess whether Jagex achieve their goal financially, not in term of "popularity" is what it counts the most. :D

So I heard people whining crying about Alice being in the game is bad but look not too far away, now we even have Nic physically in the game selling TH items for Alice. Does it bother anybody? I don't think so at a

19-Oct-2018 19:09:09 - Last edited on 19-Oct-2018 19:15:37 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
So I heard people whining crying about Alice being in the game is bad but look not too far away, now we even have Nic physically in the game selling TH items for Alice. Does it bother anybody? I don't think so at all. :D:D:D


Of course it's bothering people. That's why people are turning to OSRS instead of RS3, which accounts for 70% of the subscribers and 70% of the concurrent players.


Hiscores say otherwise, sorry. At the very least, Runescores chalked up >420k active and most recent players in about a month already. Just that number is already more impressive than EvE Online already.

And don't forget 90% of the RS3 players who actually play the game enjoy it according to Matt Casey in his Jagex MTX presentation for CausalConnect. :D

19-Oct-2018 19:21:56

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Immortalized said:
seasonals only store like 500 players? not sure what ur thinking


500? You probably have been hibernation under the rock for 10 years.

Try seasonal hiscores liket this:

https://secure.runescape.com/m=hiscore/c=myAAXdAQ9sk/ranking?category_type=0&table=0&time_filter=2&date=1535828639183&page=14769

It shows about 370k players already. I guess, there is no limit probably, let alone just 500.

19-Oct-2018 20:05:59

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Ashlin107,

First, you don't need to do Halloweeen 2018 everyday to get all the rewards. In 15 days of participation you can get all the rewards already. Second, All the rewards are cosmetics and participation is optional. You don't miss any game breaking content if you don't participate at all.

Regarding the "necessity" of "dailyscape" (note: not Halloween 2018 since it doesn't fall exactly into such category), I will only comment on it briefly since this doesn't really have much to do with TH, MTX or anything remotely pertaining to this thread. "Dailyscape" exist in most online games, particularly MMORPG mainly because this genre is very old, it is very hard to generate refreshing ideas anymore so developers are very inclined to recycle old content, hence "dailyscape".

Yes, Jagex has been getting more profitable by the year, I said it all along, and Jagex is plowing back all the money into the company. However, it doesn't mean all the money has to be spent on RS3. They have to look into the future too. They have been hiring a lot of people and making new games, those are undeniable facts. Before you try to complain not every penny made is being spent on RS3, you also have to realize many players, veterans included have expressed their concerns about this MMORPG genre and preferred Jagex to spend some development efforts on new games too. I think Jagex is being inclusive to different kinds of players in the Runescape community.

Before you complain about the "lack of" content of RS3, please look at the Runefest 2018 reveals. It is crystal clear RS3 is getting 7 big updates just this Winter 2018 season. It is not like they are only giving their main game community only 3 big updates with one of them even in serious doubt about its existence in the entire year. RS3 has 7 full content development teams encompassing 75 headcounts. It is not like they only have 20 or 21 members. Jagex has clearly showed their commitment to RS3.

20-Oct-2018 15:25:30

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Past Halloween events were not "dailyscape" events, neither is this year's event. For instance, the 2016 Halloween events also featured the same repeating tasks for grey matters to turn in for different rewards. However, obtaining every reward was optional. Not getting any of these rewards like the "Mad Professor" title or the Spider MD pet don't mean a thing in a player's normal in game progression.

Halloween 2018 doesn't have anything to do with MTX, let alone TH. That's an undeniable fact.

Events like Halloween 2018 may not be what all the Runescape players want to participate in, it is still 9000 times better than "reworks" like Wise Old Man "Rework" or "Nexus Portal" (which did not even materialize as "promised";) to a lot of players. Personally, I'll rather have optional events like Halloween 2018 than "major reworks" like Wise Old Man or Nexus Portal "Reworks" that I never need and never use. :D

I don't think I need to reiterate Jagex have revealed 7 big updates in just the next 3 months. They definitely don't let me down with only 2 updates in the next 12 months and 1 highly doubtful one that is likely to be abandoned. Jagex also don't let me down with maintaining the RS3 content development workforce at 7 teams and 75 professionals. It is not like they are not delivering a promise of like "24 Jmods" but only showing 21 now. :D:D:D

21-Oct-2018 17:07:25 - Last edited on 21-Oct-2018 17:13:41 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Again, Jagex have been running events like Halloween for years with many under similar format of optional participation over many days for a big collection of mostly cosmetic rewards. These are their SEASONAL events, not the "dailyscape" that recurs every day or so like Daily Challenges that give people much bigger than normal rewards than regular game play.

Since you (seemingly) admitted Halloween 2018 doesn't have anything to do with MTX, let alone TH, you should admit Jagex is not running Holloween Event this month of October 2018 for more profits but for the fun of the players. If you still have to complain about the Halloween 2018, there are many such threads in the Recent Update Forum already. :D

OSRS doesn't have loadstones but they added a lot more teleport tabs to adjust for that. Essentially they can just easily add more teleport tabs, scrolls and such to the game on the fly without spending their development time on making a Nexus Portal which they also failed to deliver. Well... talking about better use of development time? I'd rather see them spending it on Live Event, or at the very least something like the Summer Holiday Event they ran every year but 2018. Why can't OSRS developers come up with better content? Not because of MTX obviously, but there are nothing really new at all other than Events to do in this modern era.

So you see? The RS3 content teams have been delivering what they claimed so far, both in term of quantity and quality of their staff size and game content. And they have been extremely transparent too. I don't see what's the big complaint. Did they miss a Summer Holiday Event? Did they promise 24 Jmods but only allocate like 20 or 21 most of the year? Did they fail to deliver any of the revealed content for October? Did they not telling all of us we are going to get 2 more quests the next two months, and that's a lot more frequent updates on quests than they have been doing for 5+ years already? :D

22-Oct-2018 16:58:27 - Last edited on 22-Oct-2018 19:34:30 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Whatever your definition of "dailyscape" is, as long as Jagex don't think so they are just seasonal events and they are going to implement them the same way. It is every player's choice to do it or don't. Halloween 2018 is also totally free of MTX.

Sure we don't need more lodestone in RS3 because Jagex implemented a lot more teleport scrolls since then. That's why they are not making more lodestones now. In fact, since the initial idea of the House Portal Room, Jagex found it not so good and they made Lecterns and teletab making. That's why we don't need 10 Portal Rooms in RS3. It is just terrible waste of development time. :D

As clearly seen from the so-called "big" updates in OSRS, even bigger zoom distance, merch store are considered "big" updates... Plus if that's not "big" enough, having developers put up codes to make in the update description may really make them "bigger" updates? :D:D:D

OSRS delivering all the promises? Didn't they also miss the OSRS Mobile release date like RS3 Mobile too? Didn't they also miss the Bounty Hunter updates among a lot of other updates they promised in the 2017 OSRS Runefest reveals:


https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/71xywx/the_content_coming_in_the_next_12_months_in_osrs/

That's why OSRS only have 3 reveals with Warding even quite likely to be voted against and that'll leave them with only 2 reveals the entire coming year. OSRS still have a lot to catch up with their 2017 promised reveals like Bounty Hunter updates. They just don't re-list them as "new" 2018 reveals though. :D:D:D

Who care about inflating login count? I don't see Jagex allowing autotypers, spambots etc among other 3rd party softwares that are banned in RS3. You seem to fit that bill quite nicely since you constantly feel the need to attack Jagex to the death no matter how good and rewarding their updates may be or how badly the evidence stacks up against OSRS.

23-Oct-2018 17:47:54

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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facebook
========
1,097,684 people like RS3
1,043,000 people follow RS3

164,616 people like OSRS
165,302 people follow OSRS

Youtube
=======
238,470 subscribers (RS3)
127,660 subscribers (OSRS)

twitter
=======
323k followers (RS3)
131k followers (OSRS)

twitch
====
851,746 followers (RS3)
197,801 followers (OSRS)


It happen way way way way way more than you think... a

Don't worry though, OSRS players. They are only users on those different platforms though. They don't even have to be RS3 or OSRS players. It doesn't mean RS3 has almost 7 times the players as OSRS according to FB. :D:D:D

28-Oct-2018 22:32:01

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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UrekMazino said:
Mother of misleading stats!

Those RS3 numbers are only that high because those platforms only have such high numbers because the OSRS versions were made at a later date, leading to OSRS players having to first subscribe to the RS3 versions as it was always intended to be the platform for both RS3 and OSRS until the OSRS version was created whereas the OSRS version are always exclusive to OSRS content only.

Those RS3 numbers? Yea, most of them are from OSRS players who forgot to unsub because who even bothers to unbsub from things unless they become a hassle.


Mothers of misleading stats!

How come those numbers can get that high in Reddit but not the rest of all the other world's biggest social networks? :D:D:D

I guess some people are running out of excuses so fingers have to point to those who "forgot to unsub RS3". :D:D:D

Oh! Almost 460k very recent active players have been playing RS3 the last month or so as shown from RS3 Hiscores/Achievements. I guess they "forgot to unsub" too? :D:D:D:D:D:D

29-Oct-2018 02:41:57

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Jagex posted official announcements and comments on FB almost every day too. Some of them are not even in Reddit or came first in FB before Reddit. Twitch and RSOF are also officially integrated into Runescape the game but Reddit is not. Jagex obviously don't treat Reddit as the only "relevant" platform. Just some Jmods prefer to post on Reddit doesn't make the other platform/social networks and the RSOF "irrelevant". :D

Show proof on how many players have unsubscribed to their FB/Youtube Runescape? How do you show they did not unsubscribe to OSRS instead of RS3 rather? :D

Yes, logging even just once means somebody is active in a game. That's how games logged active players, WoW and OSRS included. :D

29-Oct-2018 14:25:31 - Last edited on 29-Oct-2018 16:33:35 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Jagex is a game developer. They show their game features with announcements. They don't have to "interact with the community" too often.

Besides, Jagex commented of FB too. And they certainly reveal more information there often before they do it on RSOF or Reddit. For instance, they revealed there would be 2 surprises with today's official Weekly Update announcements yesterday. They showed the Needle Slips new quest trailer too. We don't see them on other sites. ;)

Jagex also doesn't make money from "interacting with their community" on whatever platform. They do them making games.

Still waiting on numbers of players who unsubscribed to RS3 on FB among other social networks but not OSRS. :D

If players have to log in a game to do whatever activities, they certainly are not forgetting that game or intend not to play it. It has been the same facts in all video games. Don't tell me OSRS players who only log in just once a year count as a OSRS player but a player, even the same OSRS player who log in RS3 this month doesn't count. :D:D:D

29-Oct-2018 18:14:27

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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UrekMazino said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Jagex also doesn't make money from "interacting with their community" on whatever platform. They do them making games.

Translation: The subscriber count is a completely useless stat because its just a number that the devs try to inflate with certain incentives and in no way indicates how active the community is, since this isn't making them money.

Thanks for the circular discussion we've been having, you could've saved us both a lot of time and effort if you said that from the beginning!


r/Destiny 2
========
183k subscribers 2.1k online

r/2007scape
=========
259k players from the past 14.9k players browsing

Guess who made more money?

Of course it is Destiny 2 since it even beat Fortnite last month. :D:D:D

Of course, "subscriber" to whatever social network/fansite of a game is just some number for popularity contest to certain internet based companies including game developers. Correct that they may be inflated number to make a company "looks good" to certain groups of people. But in reality, $$$ talks and all investors will rather put their money on a game which makes a lot lot lot lot more real $$$ than one just with "more subscribers" to a social network like Reddit. :D

Let's not forget these "inflated" subscribers numbers on social network sites and such are not always "tricks" developers try to fool the players, quite often certain playerbase does it on their own. For instance, in the case of Destiny 2, their Reddit playerbase doesn't seem to be too excited, however, one may find their Twitch and Youtube playerbase far more active. ;)

30-Oct-2018 16:54:53 - Last edited on 30-Oct-2018 17:26:06 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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UrekMazino said:
Sorry, when did we change from having a more active playerbase to making more money? Why do you have to keep trying to move the goalpost to prove your point?


Sorry this thread is about Jagex making money according to OP:

"TH was introduced with the removal of bots to replace the revenue stream, but seeing JAGEX more profitable than ever is it really needed anymore? Can revenue from bonds for membership replace the major negative impact MTX has on the game.

What would be the positives? Well, first and foremost nothing really matters in RS anymore the amount of cosmetic crap and bonus XP handed out makes many achievments not really achievments, imho. Makes the game feel artificial and all about the money $$$. Just look at the bustling community osrs has."


And Jagex is a business. It is always about money to start with. Playerbase is not the same as $$$. Miu tried to bring up the Reddit "subscriber" number and used it as RS3 and OSRS "playerbase" which is obviously wrong.

Furthermore, sorry to further correct you if you want to talk about "playerbase".

Destiny 2 has 10.5 million tracked players with 2.6 million PvE players and 1.3 million PvP active players at the launch of Forsaken. Does OSRS have 10.5 million tracked players on any specific date? :D:D:D

https://gamingbolt.com/destiny-2-population-hits-2-6-million-for-pve-1-3-million-for-pvp

31-Oct-2018 02:10:27 - Last edited on 31-Oct-2018 02:34:36 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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UrekMazino said:
Yea but that wasn't the problem in your statement that I was addressing, if that's what you want to talk about instead, then ok, I'm out.


Told you again, my "statement" was meant to address to Miu's false claim that Reddit "subscribers" have anything to do with Jagex's actual playerbase and profits on Page 73, Post3. I even told him that was not what OP wanted to discuss way way back from his very 1st post.

You just jumped in, but again it is still the same thing... Reddit or whatever fansite/social network "subscriber" numbers are not related to Jagex's own players, let alone profits, and therefore has no meaning to why TH should or should not be removed. :D

31-Oct-2018 16:00:31

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu,

Necroing your own post without adding anything new certainly won't help your case. Current Player Online is not the total playerbase as everybody knows.

OSRS have 550k members doesn't mean those 550k members don't play RS3. And you even showed your "proof" from an edited graph shown in OSRS Runefest. Whoever uploaded that graph changed Runescape Members on the x-axis to "OSRS Members".

BTW, the completely factual information about active RS3 members can be easily seen from the Hiscores/Achievements here:

https://secure.runescape.com/m=hiscore/c=kPNj44I7nGc/ranking?category_type=1&table=26&time_filter=0&date=1543260133483&page=24960

Those over 620,000 RS3 unique players are all active since they had to log in RS3 to get listed on Hiscores and Achievements Hiscores only started in September 2018.

26-Nov-2018 19:25:03

Dilbert2001

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Only about 440k unique players were shown on Hiscores/Achievements at the release of OSRS Mobile. It has jumped to over 625k now. That shows a big increase already in like just a month.

We also see a lot of players in all the live events including Halloween, Slime is of the Essence, Plague Doctor and such. Add on top of that the usual crowd drawn to the resurging open world permanent game content such as Player Owned Farm.

It all points to yet another hugely profitable year for Jagex, particularly from the TH based live events. So much for the OP's concern about Jagex's profits, which was already blown away with the release of Jagex 2017 financial report and further reinforced with Mod Casey's comment that more than 90% RS3 players thumbed up their RS3 daily experience. :D

27-Nov-2018 17:30:52 - Last edited on 27-Nov-2018 17:33:22 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Miu,

Necroing your own post without adding anything new certainly won't help your case.
It's relevant because you still have yet to refute it. Whining about it being brought up certainly won't help your case.

Dilbert2001 said:
Current Player Online is not the total playerbase as everybody knows.
I never claimed it as such, as you very well know.

Dilbert2001 said:
OSRS have 550k members doesn't mean those 550k members don't play RS3. And you even showed your "proof" from an edited graph shown in OSRS Runefest. Whoever uploaded that graph changed Runescape Members on the x-axis to "OSRS Members".
Edited by who? Tell me which Jmod edited the graph.

Dilbert2001 said:
BTW, the completely factual information about active RS3 members can be easily seen from the Hiscores/Achievements here:

https://secure.runescape.com/m=hiscore/c=kPNj44I7nGc/ranking?category_type=1&table=26&time_filter=0&date=1543260133483&page=24960

Those over 620,000 RS3 unique players are all active since they had to log in RS3 to get listed on Hiscores and Achievements Hiscores only started in September 2018.
We're discussing active MEMBERS. The Highscores and Achivement Hiscores from 2018 includes any FREE PLAYER that has logged on since then. Once again, you try to compare apples and oranges, to support your cherrypicked data.


The real OSRS graph showed Members, not "OSRS Members" on the horizontal axis. They did not say all 550k members are only OSRS but not RS3 members.

It is also clearly shown on the Achievements Hiscores that way over 1/3 of the players listed there are members. Just from that official Jagex live data alone, we know RS3 has way more than the 215k members you falsely claimed.

09-Dec-2018 19:35:48

Dilbert2001

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You still show no official data whatsoever to justify your arguments how many players are playing RS3. It is definitely not from Jagex financial report like you stated "If the concurrent players are higher, and the number of members are higher from Jagex's own data and financial reports, then clearly OSRS is the more popular game."

So what does putting up an edited graph from the OSRS Runefest that you keep saying it is not edited means to RS3 player or member count? You even admitted now that there are "of course" overlap between RS3 and OSRS players. You definitely admitted now that RS3 doesn't only have 215k members.

This is the official OSRS Runefest video put up by Jagex in Youtube. At 2:51, it clearly shows the graph without even a world of OSRS, "Old School" or 2007scape Membership on it. The graph you put up was edited:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET1IazCLsG0

Please provide FACTS with exact RS3 players, members or whatever before you cry about RS3 "dying".

09-Dec-2018 22:16:31

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
This is the official OSRS Runefest video put up by Jagex in Youtube. At 2:51, it clearly shows the graph without even a world of OSRS, "Old School" or 2007scape Membership on it. The graph you put up was edited:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET1IazCLsG0

You do realize I left the video title up and the timestamp up deliberately? You know, so people could find it, if they needed to. Congratulations on stepping up from misrepresenting my statements, to misrepresenting the video I've posted. I won't be entertaining the rest of your conspiracy theories, but here's the video for you to review at your leisure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaKUSR5N63c


The voice was not from Jmod Mat K. He did not repeat what Mat K said, which was simply "last year we had 450,000 members. We have 550,000 members this year". The graph also does not show OSRS.

More importantly, all your misrepresentations, including financial data from Fukong Interactive shows no specific RS3 membership information whatsoever.

09-Dec-2018 23:00:31

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
The voice was not from Jmod Mat K. He did not repeat what Mat K said, which was simply "last year we had 450,000 members. We have 550,000 members this year". The graph also does not show OSRS.
Moving the goalposts. It's a jmod voice. No, it's not Mod Mat K, thanks. The graph clearly shows OSRS, hence why it's recordbreaking, and why it references OSRS updates. It's an official Jagex video, if you have an issue, take it up with them, or Mod Mat K since you want to hear his voice so much.

Dilbert2001 said:
More importantly, all your misrepresentations, including financial data from Fukong Interactive shows no specific RS3 membership information whatsoever.
Once again, you're attempting to refute claims I haven't made. Financial report states the total membership, which is how we deduce the RS3 membership, by subtracting OSRS from the total.

Why aren't there lists for each specific game on the financial report? Because to the investors it doesn't matter which game people are playing. Membership money is primarily from OSRS, that much is obvious.

Why does Jagex list both games at the top of the screen, instead of RS3? Because it looks bad when a game from 10 years earlier does better than your current game.

You love making comparisons to other MMOs, so to further clarify, the reason blizzard no longer lists their subscriber count: because it looks bad. Jagex isn't going to report the pathetic RS3 playerbase when it'll look bad to the investors.


Moving the goalpost? Who?

What is the RS3 membership count you have now, and from what source? Please specify.

09-Dec-2018 23:15:39

Dilbert2001

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King Tumeken said:
Don't remove it.

I think TH will fade, though. The gamble isn't even worth it. Runescape is doing really well with profits right now though. Not surprised. I think it's mostly because of bonds and runecoins , not TH because I refuse to believe people are that desperately. . ... in need, that they go ham on TH with their money in comparison to, how they would with bonds and rune coins.


No. Among the 3 Jagex MTX tools, TH gives them the most money. Runecoins is not doing too well, TH brings in over 9 times the money from Runecoins. Bond is in the middle. That's from the official Fukong Interactive Jagex Financial Report.

Besides, the popularity of TH comes not just from the randomness or loot boxe kind of game of chance or the gp and/or cosmetic prizes, but the xp that is very important to many people, particularly the new and causal ones who don't have 2+ years to waste just to get into enjoyable game content.

Of course, Jagex like profits so TH must stay. To many players, they can't play without the xp items from TH neither.

18-Dec-2018 21:51:06

Dilbert2001

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OP created this thread more than 16 months ago but obviously he is still playing actively in this game as he recent busy activity logs shows. Congrats to the WC milestone anyway. :)

Obviously, TH is just a game feature of Runescape. Even people who cried against TH don't seem to be really bothered by TH. Otherwise they wouldn't have bought Gold Premier Club membership again.

Yes, as OP wrote in Post 3 of Page 63 in this thread:

"OP certainly didnt remove himself, just focused on other pressing issues elsewhere. "


Certainly Runescape has a lot of attractive and addicting pressing issues not named TH that even TH "haters" are willing to spend money and time on. :)

20-Dec-2018 16:33:50

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
OP created this thread more than 16 months ago but obviously he is still playing actively in this game as he recent busy activity logs shows. Congrats to the WC milestone anyway. :)

Obviously, TH is just a game feature of Runescape. Even people who cried against TH don't seem to be really bothered by TH. Otherwise they wouldn't have bought Gold Premier Club membership again.

Yes, as OP wrote in Post 3 of Page 63 in this thread:

"OP certainly didnt remove himself, just focused on other pressing issues elsewhere. "


Certainly Runescape has a lot of attractive and addicting pressing issues not named TH that even TH "haters" are willing to spend money and time on. :)


This thread is about TH, not OP's highscores or membership status. Playing the game doesn't mean you condone TH in any way, so you may as well drop whatever you're trying to insinuate.


I am not strictly talking about OP, nor am I mean anything to OP's membership status and hiscores. It is just an example to illustrate TH is just an extremely tiny game feature in RS3. All players, not necessarily OP only, still play RS3 even if they don't like TH therefore there is no reason to "remove it".

On the other hand, you are strictly talking about me, and it is really nothing regarding to this thread. Thus, this is my last and only post regarding your question.

23-Dec-2018 15:19:22

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Dilbert2001 said:
All players, not necessarily OP only, still play RS3 even if they don't like TH therefore there is no reason to "remove it".


"All RS3 Players play Runescape."


Could you say anything more obvious? Yes, by definition, RS3 players play Runescape.
"Therefore there is no reason to remove it."
Dwindling players isn't a reason to remove it? If a small userbase is the goal of TH, then yes, I suppose it has been successful and should be kept in place to keep people from playing RS3.

I want RS3 to succeed, more than just in retaining its most addicted players. That's why TH needs to be removed.


On Page 76, Post 4, I asked the question:

"What is the RS3 membership count you have now, and from what source? Please specify."


...and still nobody can official show how many RS3 members Jagex have before and now.

What "dwindling players"?

Jagex's investors want Jagex to succeed more than anybody else. They get their wishes already by seeing a lot of real world success with real world $$$ revenue and profits. :D

24-Dec-2018 01:23:56

Dilbert2001

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Skull-inky said:
as i said in a previous thread the future of games and microtrasactions seem to finally be coming to an end, consumers are fighting back. And trust me its hurting many AAA games right now and Activition is felling the pressure, not that they care might you, they have plenty of IP's they killed under their belt.


Diablo has virtually no MTX. It is not profitable enough and Blizzard partner with Netease for Diablo Immortal among other moblie games. They also asked their players about implementing a "store" in their game recently too. :D

BTW, Activision Blizzard (perhaps they will just call themselves simply Activision soon) have extended their partnership with Netease to until 2023 yesterday. Guess what happened to their MTX in the next 5 years. :D

AAA Titles like Fortnite, PUBG and all the Tom Clancy series games are all flying high thanks to MTX. Yes, I said it all along... if consumers are poor or they don't want to pay, they don't have to.... however, companies will just shift to places where the consumers are rich and willing to pay. :D:D

13-Jan-2019 00:42:39

Dilbert2001

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Miu said:
Can we please keep this thread on topic? There's already a thread up about the state of the industry at large, we don't need to keep making allusions and false comparisons to other games.


Hmm... I see a lot of people have already made comparisons to other games, starting with WoW comparisons from page 5, post 1 ...and on Page 9, post 7, user Miu replied to somebody's WoW comparison...

There are countless comparisons to different games all over these 78 page and growing thread, with user Miu gain, quoting articles related to a bunch of different games such as Forza 7 on Page 19, post 7. :D:D:D

Hmm... obviously Skull-Inky was not the first one who talked about Activision games or trying to keep making allusions and false comparisons to other games.

15-Jan-2019 02:20:53

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Draco Burnz said:
Miu said:
Congratulations, are you ready to move on from that now?


Why move on when its discussing the topic?


Exactly. If everybody is bringing other companies into the discussion of this thread, including Miu, and nobody inclduing OP and the Fmods said anything otherwise, perhaps this thread is actually meant for such discussions. :D

For that reason, I want to further reveal the actual reason for the separation of Bungie from ATVI... and it is:

Because Bungie reduced MTX including loot boxes in their Destiny 2: Forsaken expansion for unrevealed reason. However, players failed to buy the game after the first month. I think we know the rest of the story, right? They terminated their CFO for unrevealed violation of his contract and then a few days later they also terminated their publishing agreement with Bungie and instantly extended their partnership agreements with Netease to 2023.

Suppose if Jagex followed the event of this idiotic ATVI saga and reduced MTX/loot boxes, they might be in serious trouble if a month later nobody else would pay them a cent. What would happen next? Most probably they would have to get rid of a lot of employees instead of adding new ones. They would also have to move much quicker into new projects. O_o

15-Jan-2019 17:02:20

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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ErkalEtruria said:
I originally did not support the removal of TH, but the promos are getting completely out of hand. They need to focus on actual content and not promos. What is wrong with them? You know what they should do? Look in Existing Game Content and just fix everything mentioned in there.


Actual game content and TH promos are 2 different things. Different development teams work on these 2 different beasts too.

M&S reworks, POF, the latest quests among many things most Runescape players enjoy have nothing to do with TH promos at all.

20-Jan-2019 16:02:40

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Look at the member list of the Fair Play Alliance:

http://fairplayalliance.org/#members

Look at all the biggest and well known game developers with loot boxes in that list please... Riot, Blizzard, EA, Ubisoft, Daybreak, CCP etc etc etc etc etc etc.

No wonder
loot box is fair play
. TH is fair play. :D:D:D

27-Jan-2019 16:00:29

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Blackwing said:
Looks like another glimpse of hope just appeared for RS3 without Treasure Hunter; EA, one of the most famous gaming companies in the world, was forced to remove loot boxes in FIFA for Belgium players. If a company like EA can be forced to take down its loot boxes, a company like Jagex won't stand a chance when similarly confronted.

For obvious reasons, it'd be much better for everyone if Jagex woke up and voluntarily removed Treasure Hunter, since the company houses some devs who truly love their work and would want to make a great game over endless greed, but if not, it's quite clear that sooner or later, Treasure Hunter will be removed, even if due to regulations.

I can't wait to see a more brighter chapter in Runescape's history again!! > )


Apparently you don't realize EA still have many games with loot boxes running in Belgium. All the other EA Sports games, SWTOR etc to say the least.

Don't forget numerous games, especially new mobile and Steam games with loot boxes were added since April 2018 when Belgium last said a word.

Belgium has never said a word against other EA games, all the Ubisoft games, etc. They even said Pokemon with similar packs like FIFA and Hearthstone are fine there explicitly. :D

29-Jan-2019 18:21:47

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Doorknob747 said:
THIS THREAD IS STILL ALIVE? <---the second time I said this. Last time I said this was like.... in the Summer of 2018. Seriously.... F2P can already get the good F2P items like magic notepapers, springs, tight springs, and what not from the oddament store and especially from the Thaler store. I'm out from this convo peace. Call me back here if the topic changes to making Treasure Hunter P2P only.


You do realize Thaler store is not TH or even MTX based, right?

If you think Jagex is being stingy to free players, perhaps you have a point but it has nothing to do with MTX or TH. They are doing it because 45% of their revenue still comes from membership. Although Jagex labeled Runescape as a free to play game, it is actually premium or a free-to-play/subscription hybrid.

Realistically, unless the bottom of subscription model falls off, sorry free players are not going to be competitive against members in this game. It may change in the next Jagex games but I don't see that happening in the current Runescape in the next couple of years.

04-Feb-2019 17:19:25

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Like all the alliances in the world, The Fair Play Alliance of course has its own practices. Obviously, they have completely absolutely totally, 100% no problems with TH whatsoever:

http://fairplayalliance.org/

Sorry, the own definitions of a couple of forums users don't change the the definitions of the over 7 billion people in the world.

If you have a problem with TH, you can always go tell the Alliance:

The Fair Play Alliance is passionate about games and players, and how we can improve together as an industry. Tell us how we can help, or get in touch with us at info@fairplayalliance.org.


Don't forget to tell us what they say. :D:D

12-Feb-2019 01:11:01

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Nex is Life said:
Dilbert2001 said:
The Fair Play Alliance doesn't have anything to do with MTX, gambling regulations or game integrity being compromised through pay-to-win. You would know this if you could be bothered to read their mission statement.

Also they do not have 7 billion members, nor are their statements legal definitions :D

But I am interested to read what nonsense you post next.


You think that's nonsense to link TH to Fair Trade Alliance too? But somebody on Page 80, Post 1 wrote this:

"Since Jagex is apparently a member of the "Fair Play Alliance", which allegedly doesn't tolerate cheating in video games, it's even more imperative now to get rid of Treasure Hunter, which is exactly that: cheating with your real life wallet! > )"


Are you interested to read what nonsense Blackwing or whoever post next? :D:D:D

12-Feb-2019 03:55:45

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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UrekMazino said:
Dilbert2001 said:
You think that's nonsense to link TH to Fair Trade Alliance too? But somebody on Page 80, Post 1 wrote this:

"Since Jagex is apparently a member of the "Fair Play Alliance", which
allegedly
doesn't tolerate cheating in video games, it's even more imperative now to get rid of Treasure Hunter, which is exactly that: cheating with your real life wallet! > )"


Are you interested to read what nonsense Blackwing or whoever post next? :D:D:D

Keyword highlighted for convenience.


None of your keyword nonsense if "highlighted" anywhere in Fair Play Alliance's domains. For your convenience, I have already pointed you to the REAL Fair Play Alliance site and their REAL CONTACT INFO. :D:D:D

12-Feb-2019 14:44:07

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Nex is Life said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Whats nonsense is your suggestion that being a member of an organisation which does not enforce (or even have) rules or regulations can magically mean there is no cheating in any of their games. And paying to win is cheating.
Anyone can be a member of an "alliance" that declares they are against cheating, but that translating into reality is a different matter.


Don't change the topic. Your nonsense on your last post was:

"The Fair Play Alliance doesn't have anything to do with MTX, gambling regulations or game integrity being compromised through pay-to-win. You would know this if you could be bothered to read their mission statement."


Now knowing it was the other user who tried to link all these nonsense to Fair Play Alliance but not me, you tried to deflect it to more nonsense.

For the record, you already wrote clearly FPA doesn't have anything to do with MTX, blah blah blah, why are you still complaining about MTX and pay to win. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

12-Feb-2019 20:44:38 - Last edited on 12-Feb-2019 20:45:02 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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UrekMazino said:
Dilbert2001 said:
None of your keyword nonsense if "highlighted" anywhere in Fair Play Alliance's domains. For your convenience, I have already pointed you to the REAL Fair Play Alliance site and their REAL CONTACT INFO. :D:D:D

Are keywords always highlighted in T&A's? Are keywords always highlighted in contracts? Are keywords always highlighted in missing/vision statements?

No, so why does me highlighting a word in that statement somehow trigger you?


Are you Nex is Life?

My reply was clearly to Nex is Life. I did not see Urekmazino "highlighting a word in that statement" at all and it doesn't trigger anything at all neither.

Please stop deflecting the topic again to meaning of words again, especially when the posts did not ask you for meaning of words. My last comment on this meaning of word nonsense whatsoever.

13-Feb-2019 16:01:27

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Anybody else have constructive and real life information regarding TH or loot boxes to share?

Oh! Let me give you the real world reactions in term of $$$ on loot boxes in this case study:

Before Apex Legends, EA's stock traded at the $70 range. Wall Street firms like Jeffries downgraded the stocks due to lack of creativity and MTX.

After the release of Apex Legends and its friendly loot boxes among all the MTX you can think about, EA's stock has shot up to as high as $107 and now trading around $102. Jeffries and other Wall Street firms changed course and now all the next Fortnite.

Do people hate loot boxes? Absolutely not the people when they look at $$$, the real world $$$. :D

13-Feb-2019 17:26:20

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Blackwing said:
^ Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Apex's MTX also cosmetic-only, while the other games had P2W MTX, in addition to the F2P/P2P difference?


Yes, they are cosmetic only but they are still loot boxes.

Don't forget EA never said everything will be cosmetics only forever in Apex Legends. Don't forget WoW MTX were cosmetics only when it started out but then Blizzard sold boosts and even level 45, then 90 characters later.

The fact that players like Apex with Loot Boxes but not Battlefield V with no loot boxes speak volume. Not that loot boxes matter but game content means a lot. Players come to a game to play the game, not to play loot boxes. Like Andrew Wilson said: "if you don't want to buy, don't buy" regardless if it is membership, SGS, TH or whatever.

13-Feb-2019 21:15:00

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Nex is Life said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Anybody else have constructive and real life information regarding TH or loot boxes to share?

Oh! Let me give you the real world reactions in term of $$$ on loot boxes in this case study:

Before Apex Legends, EA's stock traded at the $70 range. Wall Street firms like Jeffries downgraded the stocks due to lack of creativity and MTX.

After the release of Apex Legends and its friendly loot boxes among all the MTX you can think about, EA's stock has shot up to as high as $107 and now trading around $102. Jeffries and other Wall Street firms changed course and now all the next Fortnite.

Do people hate loot boxes? Absolutely not the people when they look at $$$, the real world $$$.
Now whats the difference between Apex Legends and the last two HUGE "AAA" FLOPS published by EA that put their stocks that low in the first place?
I can't put my finger on it...

Could it be that Apex Legends is F2P with microtransactions while SWBFII and Battlefield V had AAA price tags as well as Microtransactions. Could it possibly be that when players buy or subscribe to a game they don't also want game progression designed to sell lootboxes?

One or the other pick your model :D

Wall Street loves aggressive monetisation, players do not. And players have clearly made their voices heard with their wallets over EA's last games or Apex Legends would not be F2P :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D


Or they can have a model of everything, buy to play, loot boxes, cosmetics, battle pass, real money player trading and everything you can think of in PUBG and still make huge money. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

13-Feb-2019 21:16:48

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Nex is Life said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Or they can have a model of everything, buy to play, loot boxes, cosmetics, battle pass, real money player trading and everything you can think of in PUBG and still make huge money.
And PUBG's player count declined when they added all that to the game :D

Other "Battle Royale" games with the different models suddenly started doing a lot better at the same time :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Of course the practice of making a game then adding impudent monetisation later on when there is already a strong player base is the only way companies will get people to play games with lots of monetisation. As with RuneScape when it was bought out.
However players do not like this either and developers will eventually be expected to be clear and honest about what monetisation will be added to the game.


Where did you find PUBG's player count declined when they added all that to the game?

What other "battle royale" games with different models suddenly started doing a lot better at the same time?

Let me show you the real world Digital Games revenue breakdown of 2018 according to Superdata:

https://venturebeat.com/2019/01/16/superdata-digital-games-grow-12-to-109-8-billion-in-2018-fortnite-earned-2-4-billion/

PUBG made over $1 billion in 2018. It was the 2nd highest grossing to only Fortnite. Obviously nobody else was "suddendly started doing a lot better at the same time".

BTW, in 2018 alone, PUBG made as much as Jagex made in all their 18 years of existence. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

14-Feb-2019 22:26:28

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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UrekMazino said:
Dilbert2001 said:
UrekMazino said:
Dilbert2001 said:
None of your keyword nonsense if "highlighted" anywhere in Fair Play Alliance's domains. For your convenience, I have already pointed you to the REAL Fair Play Alliance site and their REAL CONTACT INFO. :D:D:D

Are keywords always highlighted in T&A's? Are keywords always highlighted in contracts? Are keywords always highlighted in missing/vision statements?

No, so why does me highlighting a word in that statement somehow trigger you?


Are you Nex is Life?

My reply was clearly to Nex is Life. I did not see Urekmazino "highlighting a word in that statement" at all and it doesn't trigger anything at all neither.

Please stop deflecting the topic again to meaning of words again, especially when the posts did not ask you for meaning of words. My last comment on this meaning of word nonsense whatsoever.

I'm sorry, am I not allowed to reply to you on a
public
forum? Are you my boss? Are you an Fmod? Don't tell me who I can and cannot reply to. And who said I was highlighting the word for you? Are you and Nex the only ones reading this thread? Or could I be highlighting for others?

And I asked if you were triggered because of your seemingly agitated response. No, I don't know if you were actually triggered nor did I assume, I merely asked.

And I was in no way "deflecting" anything, what do I have to deflect? There are no arguments nor personal attacks thrown my way. Did you mean detrack from the original topic? How would highlighting a single word in a quote detrack from a topic? How is it physically possible to do so when I offered no input from my opinion to the topic?


You are talking about the meaning of a word, a player (me) and nothing else about this thread at all. Thanks for your comment for the last time. :)

15-Feb-2019 15:31:19

Dilbert2001

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"Treasure Hunter" and "Squeal of Fortune", basically ruined the game when the bond was introduced.


Actually nothing ruined the game, Bond just makes this game pay to win but a pay to win game doesn't mean a "ruined" game. The one who feel the others paying more than them are the winners and they are losers just because they buy less or no bonds with real money are the ones who RUINED their own game by having this thought.

20-Feb-2019 02:01:06 - Last edited on 20-Feb-2019 02:01:55 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Doorknob747 said:
Dilbert2001 said:
"Treasure Hunter" and "Squeal of Fortune", basically ruined the game when the bond was introduced.


Actually nothing ruined the game, Bond just makes this game pay to win but a pay to win game doesn't mean a "ruined" game. The one who feel the others paying more than them are the winners and they are losers just because they buy less or no bonds with real money are the ones who RUINED their own game by having this thought.


How sooo? When did I ever say that "everyone" who payed are the ones who ruined the game. I SPECIFICALLY MEANT THOSE THAT "PAYED" FOR TH or Squeal Of Fortune were the ones that ruined the game.


This game is not P2W. It is 100% F2W, believe me. If you know how to play.... you do not need to spend a single penny to Jagex.

Oh one more thing.... there is no message that pops up that LITTERALY SAYS WORD BY WORD... "YOU HAVE WON THE GAME!" The messages that shows 200Nill xp are just nothing but showing off. I myself do not consider having 200M xp in all skills is the only way one can say they won the game. I my self think that buying all rare tradable holiday items means winning the game. F2P have ways to make money.... so the game is F2W.


What? I clearly wrote
"Actually nothing ruined the game"
, not that I said you said whoever "ruined" the game.

The game is in good shape with good integrity and making good money for the wise company Jagex from good consumers who voiced with their wallets. Nothing is "ruined" at all. :D:D:D

20-Feb-2019 17:09:52

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Never RIP said:
Dilbert2001 said:
"Treasure Hunter" and "Squeal of Fortune", basically ruined the game when the bond was introduced.


Actually nothing ruined the game, Bond just makes this game pay to win but a pay to win game doesn't mean a "ruined" game. The one who feel the others paying more than them are the winners and they are losers just because they buy less or no bonds with real money are the ones who RUINED their own game by having this thought.


Noobs been real world trading since forever. Jägex didn't ruin Rs. It's always been ruined. And now you're jealous and mad cos u think U got robbed.


Don't know if the "u" in your "u think U got robbed" meant me. If so, then I actually don't feel robbed since I don't care about pay to win at all.

If somebody afford to pay more than me, it only means they are richer or more willing to pay than me, but it doesn't mean they win anything over me. :D

26-Feb-2019 17:43:37

Dilbert2001

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SOF used to give a lot of direct xp lamps. TH mixed in a good portion of bonus xp stars. Obviously with bonus xp from TH, it requires players to play the game most of the time to get the xp.

It has been like 7 years since SOF and EOC. This game is hardly slowly dying, especially when you compare it to other games in the same MMORPG genre like EQ, GW, Eve or even WoW. Number of "players" in a specific world is not the total number of players whatsoever of that game. You don't even 300 players in most MMORPG in one world when those MMORPG is not singled shard like Eve.

If the game is dying, Jagex won't be breaking world records as well as its own financial records years after years with all the MTX in the game. In fact, even if certain common denominator few insist to look at "concurrent player online" as a "big deal" (which in real life it is nothing to all main and Wall Street people), they will see that RS3 number is actually trending up pretty well since summer of 2018... and RS3 Mobile is not even out, but will be soon. :D:D:D

04-Mar-2019 20:37:16

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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I was talking about RS is not dying comparing to EQ, GW, Eve and WoW. Don't try to twist it to "doing well comparing to" the other games. Destiny 2 is much bigger and makes more revenue than RS too but we know what happened to it already. Blizzard abandoned it because they think it is dying. What they said about "dying" is its business is worsening, not that they have less players or make less revenue than their other business like Starcraft.

Jagex is not firing their employees. They have been hiring as many as 20% more the past year. Their revenue and profit are going up and in fact they set new record in revenue year over year for many consecutive times already:

"
Runescape developer and publisher Jagex posted revenues of £84.9 million in its last financial year, a rise of 14.2% year-on-year.
"

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2018-09-07-jagex-profit-and-revenue-spikes-in-another-record-year

Read that, their annual revenue last reported was £84.9 million or $110 mil, not the $56 mil you thought. In fact, $56 mil was the PROFIT, not revenue of Jagex's last fiscal year.

GW2 has fired over 140 employeed or >35% of their entire workforce. They are doing well? Good joke.

Eve doesn't have more players than Runescape. Just members alone, RS has over 1 million as revealed in RS3's 18th birthday. Eve only has at most 400k members last reported. Please show where you find Eve's player count... and please also show how much Eve made
after 2016
. ;)

Even in 2016, CCP's net profit was only $21 mil. That's only 37% of what Jagex's. Good joke. :D:D:D

Don't forget Eve is a franchise. CCP also have other Eve titles including Eve: Valkyrie which contributed to a good chunk of CCP's revenue too.

Eve also was not sold for $425 mil. The sale is based on a lot of unrevealed milestone, UP TO a certain figure. :D

09-Mar-2019 18:40:50 - Last edited on 09-Mar-2019 18:53:08 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Tom Grey said:
TH did so much damage already that even if it’s removed, nothing would change. Old players won’t come back. Current players won’t enjoy the game more. Toning down on promotions and keeping th cosmetic would be a courtesy for the players, but we know jagex too well, that this won’t happen.


To get old player to come back, current players to enjoy the game more, and more importantly to attract new players, games like EVE don't remove loot boxes, they add Mutaplasmids that give random chances to give better drop. :D:D:D

Still think a TH is bad? Still think Jagex is greedy? Look at how the other games are faring with their declining playerbase, finanancial data and players reactions first. Jagex is on the rise in all these categories. Just a few complaints from a few players in these RSOF but almost nowhere else won't change a thing. :D:D:D

10-Mar-2019 03:15:10

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Tom Grey said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Tom Grey said:
TH did so much damage already that even if it’s removed, nothing would change. Old players won’t come back. Current players won’t enjoy the game more. Toning down on promotions and keeping th cosmetic would be a courtesy for the players, but we know jagex too well, that this won’t happen.


To get old player to come back, current players to enjoy the game more, and more importantly to attract new players, games like EVE don't remove loot boxes, they add Mutaplasmids that give random chances to give better drop. :D:D:D

Still think a TH is bad? Still think Jagex is greedy? Look at how the other games are faring with their declining playerbase, finanancial data and players reactions first. Jagex is on the rise in all these categories. Just a few complaints from a few players in these RSOF but almost nowhere else won't change a thing. :D:D:D
I don’t care about other games because they are unappealing to me. If only there was a common denominator. Oh yes, p2w micro transactions.

I wonder if mtx is so successful in driving people in as you say, why does osrs have more players and no mtx yet. Jagex is losing on the opportunity of a lifetime there.


You don't care about other games then you don't have to talk about them, but look at all these 85 pages, a lot of the discussions are based on comparison of RS3 to other games. Of course, you have the right to remain silent if you don't want to talk about other games with the other forum users on this thread. Thanks. :)

OSRS don't have more players. They have more concurrent users online, perhaps but even so their number is dropping really quick for them. It is approaching mid day of the busiest and usually the most concurrent player day of the week, a Sunday but OSRS only shows 84k concurent users, far from 150k reached in Nov 2018.

You asked for OSRS numbers. You get it. :D

10-Mar-2019 14:46:19

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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UrekMazino said:
Dilbert2001 said:

Not my fault you worded it so poorly, you were afterall comparing rs to the other games you mentioned, so its not its not unfair that I bring up some info to see if your statement stands.

All these examples you brought up about employee cut or having lower player count and w/e, yet they somehow not only have better revenue than Jagex but are also breaking their own records. Really, all these numbers you brought up only serve to prove your original point wrong.


Stop talking about rubbish. I clearly showed you the Jagex numbers. Jagex is beating their own revenue and profits numbers as well as member, not the other games. The other games don't break any of their own revenue, profits numbers at all as you continued to self deny.

Jagex beat the other games like Eve you mentioned. I even completely, absolutely, totally 100% destroyed your nonsense with the actual Jagex and CCP financial numbers. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

10-Mar-2019 14:49:48 - Last edited on 10-Mar-2019 14:50:44 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Jmod Rowley:

"and the player number you see only reflect those currently logged in, not all active
members."


https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/92433u/a_solid_positive_jmod_response_to_the_state_of/

Jmod clearly told us the number we see on top of the website doesn't mean total active members.

Jmod already told all of us there are different factors affecting concurrent player count. Other players also identified factors like the differences in bots, average time spent in each game of their respective players and effects of OSRS mobile.

It is clear from the image of this reddit post that OSRS "players" (your definition, not the real player count in the real world) are dropping off from over 150k they reached when OSRS was released 3 months ago. This further indicates Mobile has some effects to that number. And RS3 numbers are going up since November 2018 actually. Obviously, MTX or no MTX don't solely affect the games.

https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/9w6z3o/150k/

10-Mar-2019 16:33:39

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Tom Grey said:
Are you serious? Of course I am talking about concurrent players online and not all accounts created. Having 200m accounts with 99% of them inactive and not making any money is not a good representation of the game. So please read next time. 3x more players online at the same time is having more players than rs3 by definition.


By whose definitition? Jmod clearly said players online only mean players logged in but not the total active members. Your so called "definition" is definitely not Jagex's definition and the real world definition.

And don't look... The OSRS "players' (using your defintion" is tumbling big time despite of "no" MTX (cough.. cough... somebody forgot Bond, James Bond). Meanwhile, RS3 "players" are jumping higher. Oh no! How come with "no" MTX OSRS "players" are still dropping like a rock from 150k down to 110??? How come RS3 still doesn't die but in fact with "players" moving upward... and RS3 Mobile is not even released???

10-Mar-2019 19:28:32

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Tom Grey said:
My definition because it was MY point. Read it again. Osrs has more players thus it is strange that they are not bombarded by mtx, because it would make more commercial sense. Why make x amount of money when you can make 4x by putting micro transactions into osrs? But it’s actually the other way around. Rs3 has less active play because it is bombarded by mtx, whether you want to admit it or not.


OSRS is not bombarded by MTX? Then how come their players dropped from 150k to 110k? :D:D:D

10-Mar-2019 22:25:24

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Tom Grey said:
It was 110k before mobile release. Went up to 150k due to hype. Now people realised that mobile was a dumb idea, so numbers fell back to 110k. Nothing to do with mtx. Any more great questions?


So the RS3 number must have everything to do with MTX but OSRS numbers must have nothing to do with MTX. Very "interesting" logic. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

10-Mar-2019 23:04:04

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Tom Grey said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Tom Grey said:
It was 110k before mobile release. Went up to 150k due to hype. Now people realised that mobile was a dumb idea, so numbers fell back to 110k. Nothing to do with mtx. Any more great questions?


So the RS3 number must have everything to do with MTX but OSRS numbers must have nothing to do with MTX. Very "interesting" logic. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D
Dont change the topic with some stupid “interesting logic”. Osrs has more players, regardless if you think it’s mtx related or not, that’s fact number 1. Osrs doesn’t have any form of mtx apart from bonds, that’s a fact number 2. Runescape 3 has th, Solomon store, runemetrics, mtx featured events, and occasional runepass fiasco, that’s fact number 3.

Now, your argument is that other games have players and mtx = profit. I show you that osrs doesn’t have heavy mtx as rs3, and it’s performing better. Are you going to deny that that is the case?


Don't change the topic that OSRS is nosediving in players but RS3 is going up?. And don't change the topic that you have yet to provide a reason why MTX (or lack of besides bond) doesn't affect the heavy bleeding of OSRS players? And don't change the topic why RS3 players are going up despite of continuous MTX?

And more importantly, don't change the topic that MTX gave Jagex more money than subscription, and don't change the topic that TH is the best selling MTX for Jagex.

And don't change the topic that players are paying for TH regardless, so no reason for Jagex to remove their best source of revenue. :D:D:D

11-Mar-2019 00:12:30 - Last edited on 11-Mar-2019 00:32:52 by Dilbert2001

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