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crystal pickaxe vs elder rune

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Big Storms
Dec Member 2005

Big Storms

Posts: 3,866Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I have not played the beta for long, yet I think I found something quite unbalanced:

The crystal pickaxe is untradeable and requires one to use 4000 crystal dust on a dragon pickaxe and has a mining progress between 39-109

The elder rune pickaxe requires (only) two rune bars, light and dark animaca ores, has a mining progress between 45-135 and is tradeable.

This is not even talking about the elder rune+5 pickaxes, which I assume increases the progress to 50-140 for about 62 elder rune.

I believe the balancing should be different here, rewarding those that put the effort into getting a crystal pickaxe themselves rather then just buying a elder rune one from the grand exchange. There are a multitude of ways to achieve this.

I'd like other people their opinions on this

Edit: also, I know there is the pickaxe of earth and song which incorporates the crystal pickaxe (and imcando pickaxe), but this does not solve the issue of getting only the crystal pickaxe not being rewarding.
"One should not mindlessly follow gods or the godless:
follow
your
own
path
"
~Big Storms

13-Nov-2018 20:13:22 - Last edited on 13-Nov-2018 20:16:29 by Big Storms

Storebror
May Gold Premier Club Member 2018

Storebror

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While Crystal Pickaxe in and of itself might be a bit underpowered based on the effort required to get it. As you mentioned you need it to make the best pickaxe in the game, so I don't think that's too bad.
Just look at crystal fishing rod and the fish o matic*

**;DR
Not an issue IMO

13-Nov-2018 20:26:02

Rikornak
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2013

Rikornak

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Storebror said:
While Crystal Pickaxe in and of itself might be a bit underpowered based on the effort required to get it. As you mentioned you need it to make the best pickaxe in the game, so I don't think that's too bad.
Just look at crystal fishing rod and the fish o matic*

**;DR
Not an issue IMO


Basically this. Albeit I would reintroduce the double chance for golden rocks again and inherit it to earth and song as well.
Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

13-Nov-2018 20:28:06

Serene Steel
Sep Gold Premier Club Member 2015

Serene Steel

Posts: 11,612Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Crystal's only a T70 pickaxe.

The Imcando is now better than it at a solid T80 (which means it got buffed from T60), and E&S is T90.

The difference between Crystal and Necrite, Imcando and Bane, and E&S and Elder Rune, is that the special pickaxes can be augmented.
The metal, smithable ones, cant.
The Steelweaver

World Guardian #835
Maxed 9/7/2016
120 Smithing 1/4/2019

13-Nov-2018 20:39:44

Big Storms
Dec Member 2005

Big Storms

Posts: 3,866Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hmm all fair points, but is there any reason why the crystal pickaxe should be t70, lower than the imcando pickaxe (t80), which arguably is even easier to get?

I would make the crystal one t80. For me it will not make much difference, since I will be making the pickaxe of earth and songs on release, but for those that just unlocked the elf city I think it is a valid reward.

Still it feels weird that the elder rune pickaxe is that much better while buyable. I have not made the pickaxe of earth and song yet, but read it has the same speed as the elder rune pickaxe +5 one. Which again is buyable.
"One should not mindlessly follow gods or the godless:
follow
your
own
path
"
~Big Storms

13-Nov-2018 22:06:07 - Last edited on 13-Nov-2018 22:10:38 by Big Storms

SpringFest
Sep Gold Premier Club Member 2011

SpringFest

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I get what your saying, but the highest of top tier pickaxes are even harder to get timewise.

crystal dust for a pickaxe isn't really that hard, the hard part is the dragon pickaxe. (at least, if ironman)

you can get dust form DSF trader sometimes, pickpocketing elfes, harps (main source), and probally other places.
*~War Tortoise
:(

13-Nov-2018 23:38:39

Big Storms
Dec Member 2005

Big Storms

Posts: 3,866Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
SpringFest said:
I get what your saying, but the highest of top tier pickaxes are even harder to get timewise.

crystal dust for a pickaxe isn't really that hard, the hard part is the dragon pickaxe. (at least, if ironman)

you can get dust form DSF trader sometimes, pickpocketing elfes, harps (main source), and probally other places.

Fact remains: crystal and imcando pickaxes are untradeable, while the elder rune ones are.

So where you need to have completed end tier quests such as plagues quest or birthright of the dwarves, for the crystal and imcando pickaxe (along with the actions you just described), with the elder one you can just buy it off the ge or get it from a friend. No other game experience needed whatsoever.

This in my opinion is unbalanced and is not solved by making the untradeable ones augmentable and the tradeable ones not. Not that any of it matters to me personally, given that I will use the pickaxe of earth and song on release any way, if I even decide to do any mining at all past 99.
I just look at how it is balanced.
"One should not mindlessly follow gods or the godless:
follow
your
own
path
"
~Big Storms

14-Nov-2018 08:28:55

Big Storms
Dec Member 2005

Big Storms

Posts: 3,866Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Bumping this with some more info:

I did some research into the location of mining sites, to find out you can make elder rune bars without any quest requirements. Light animaca can be mined north of Ardougne, dark animaca at the digsite, rune at Port Khazard and Liminite at the Fremennik mining site.


Let me then explain the issue this way:
in the current game there is a huge difference in the tiers rune, dragon and crystal/imcando pickaxes. This is equally reflected in the requirements: rune can be instantly bought for cheap or made without any quest requirements, dragon can be bought, yet is a rare drop hence expensive at 6-8m. The crystal and imcando pickaxes are endgame, require one to have a dragon pickaxe on top of end tier quests and involve the player gathering additional materials themselves.

With the mining and smithing rework this tiered system is replaced with one easily buying a near end tier pickaxe from the ge (be it for a 'high' price) or making one without the need of quests, alternatively having a tiny benefit from completing quests and making the crystal and imcando pickaxe (while there is no use in only having one of them, with even the bane pickaxe being better than that).


Again I will have the pickaxe of Earth and Songs on release, so the above will not affect me. Nor do I need any more mining experience. One might even say I am giving myself a disadvantage suggesting all of this: making the elder rune pickaxe worse would mean less influx of ores, which means higher prices, while I will probably have to buy ores to do smithing in the artisan workshop for respect.
Still I see a progression system that does not make much sense, which would be a shame for new players.

But perhaps I am overlooking something: does augmenting the pickaxe give that much benefit?
"One should not mindlessly follow gods or the godless:
follow
your
own
path
"
~Big Storms

14-Nov-2018 11:25:56

ChelKurito
Aug Member 2010

ChelKurito

Posts: 277Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
That depends on your perspective. Honed 5 has a +10% chance to double your ore gains in the new system, and Refined 3 increases your chance of finding geodes by 6%, which can be extremely beneficial in the case of Metamorphic Geodes. Plus Earthsong gets you passive Invention experience at Tier 90 experience rates without having to use a Crystal Tool Siphon, which is certainly attractive, both in terms of cost of Equipment Siphons vs Crystal Tool Siphons, and in terms of how much easier it's going to be to rank up the pickaxe on actually relevant materials than it is currently.

Personally, I do feel like Earthsong should have a bit more to it, some kind of passive effect or bonus, than just being equivalent to Elder Rune +5 but augmentable. So much effort and value goes into it that it does feel like it should be a step ahead even ignoring augmentation.

If I had to make a suggestion on that topic, it would probably be something like... passively increasing geode chances, chance of finding stone spirits for the ore you're mining (like juju mining potions), and so on.

14-Nov-2018 14:14:13 - Last edited on 14-Nov-2018 14:23:10 by ChelKurito

Serene Steel
Sep Gold Premier Club Member 2015

Serene Steel

Posts: 11,612Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I think a big thing with this update is simple accessibility. So many things nowadays are locked behind major questlines and all these metal gears being added to Smithing are essential and core pieces of leveling up the skill itself. A chunk of players might not value augmenting gear, but the bonuses from the new perks can't be called worthless.

Alongside those core gears, there's now a clear path to leveling up Smithing up to level 99. No longer is it "well the expensive route is adamant platebodies or rune 2hs, but you could always make gold bars".
The Steelweaver

World Guardian #835
Maxed 9/7/2016
120 Smithing 1/4/2019

14-Nov-2018 14:16:13

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