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The Sandstone Debacle

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FisherGaming

FisherGaming

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For context, read this blog post.

I am really not happy with the precedent set by Jagex of polling something and not implementing it despite it passing. The concerns that this polled method would be too powerful are well placed, and I have no contention with those arguments. I myself stated repeatedly that I'd love to see the method implemented, but the rates nerfed slightly.

However, deciding not to go through with the change at all is really scary. Why poll something if we can't trust Jagex to respect the outcome? This totally violates the integrity of the polling system as a whole. What is to stop Jagex from implementing something that failed, or not implementing something that passed?

EVERYONE should be concerned about this, because this paves the way towards your opinion no longer mattering. Hey #ditchtheditch people! What happens if the question passes this time and Jagex says nevermind?

--

That's a big problem, but let's move on. Jagex has the final say, so time is better spent providing feedback to this new idea they've put forth. Their new solution is decent.

1. Give noted Buckets to Drew.
2. Mine Sandstone.
3. Put Sandstone in Grinder.
4. Pay Drew to turn Sandstone into Buckets of Sand.

However, there are some concerns I think need addressing.
There'd be no need for 3rd party clients if the default one was decent. I vote no to all non-PvP Wilderness updates, and yes to all PvP Wilderness updates. If you want to revive the wilderness, encourage players to PvP, not lure them to the Wilderness to be victims.

13-Feb-2019 18:00:08

FisherGaming

FisherGaming

Posts: 4,941Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
UPDATE: Jagex has changed the suggestion somewhat. Changes to the method are noted in yellow text.

Why 100
50
coins per Bucket of Sand?
-- Considering we have to buy the Buckets, mine the Sandstone, and pay to get it turned into Buckets of Sand, the suggested cost of 100
50
coins seems too high. Buckets of Sand are sold for 5/ea at shops. Perhaps a more reasonable 10, 20, or 25 each?
It shouldn't cost 10x as much gold to mine and process sand yourself. We already have to buy the buckets, mine the Sandstone, and pay 50 coins? Why? It should be much cheaper, or free.


Are the Buckets of Sand we get from Drew noted? --
Jagex has answered. Yes, the Buckets of Sand we get will be noted.


Why so much slower? -- The blog says Jagex doesn't like ShopScape, but they want the only way to get better rates than ShopScape to be tick manipulation at 99 Mining? Seriously? Hopefully this doesn't include some of the nice bonuses from diaries, because if we can only expect to get slightly better than buying from shops while tick manipulating at 99, this update is pretty much worthless.
There'd be no need for 3rd party clients if the default one was decent. I vote no to all non-PvP Wilderness updates, and yes to all PvP Wilderness updates. If you want to revive the wilderness, encourage players to PvP, not lure them to the Wilderness to be victims.

13-Feb-2019 18:00:23 - Last edited on 22-Feb-2019 01:04:13 by FisherGaming

FisherGaming

FisherGaming

Posts: 4,941Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Reserved. There'd be no need for 3rd party clients if the default one was decent. I vote no to all non-PvP Wilderness updates, and yes to all PvP Wilderness updates. If you want to revive the wilderness, encourage players to PvP, not lure them to the Wilderness to be victims.

13-Feb-2019 18:00:36

FisherGaming

FisherGaming

Posts: 4,941Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
rishinger l said:
Jagex are game developers....99% of us in the community are not.
That doesn't really matter. They gave us the polls for a reason. If they won't respect the outcome of the polls, there is no point in having the polls in the first place.

I know that's what you'd prefer, and if that's what Jagex wants to do, fine, but don't give us the false assumption that our opinions matter by giving us polls that will only be ignored.

Admittedly, this is the first time it has happened, and Jagex said they are sorry, and it's because it was poorly thought out and rushed to poll before it was ready. I just fear that excuse can be used for anything now.

"Should we add something EVERYONE would love?" - 98% yes, 2% no.
Jagex: Sorry, we rushed this to poll before it was ready, so we won't be implementing this even though it passed.

That's my concern. Only time will tell if my concern is well-founded, or if this is a one-off incident that Jagex won't repeat. I hope it's the latter, which is why I'm trusting them and giving feedback to their new idea instead of rejecting it outright.

rishinger l said:
I trust Jagex's Judgment on matters more then i would 99% of the community.
Except when it comes to the poll requirements, or adding polls, or any of the numerous updates Jagex has made and you think ruined the game?

It's rather convenient that you trust Jagex when something you like happens, but don't trust them when something you don't like happens. If you trusted their judgment, you wouldn't be making suggestions in the first place.

--

Have you anything to say about the new suggestion being polled?
There'd be no need for 3rd party clients if the default one was decent. I vote no to all non-PvP Wilderness updates, and yes to all PvP Wilderness updates. If you want to revive the wilderness, encourage players to PvP, not lure them to the Wilderness to be victims.

13-Feb-2019 18:18:58

rishinger l

rishinger l

Posts: 1,725Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
"Admittedly, this is the first time it has happened, and Jagex said they are sorry, and it's because it was poorly thought out and rushed to poll before it was ready."

Aaaaand theres one of my Big problems with polls.
It might be the first time they've admitted it...but there are MANY, MANY things that get polled which are poorly thought out and rushed to be suggested far too early.

And THAT is why we have so much broken content in the game.
Jagex bring out MANY polls that aren't thought out properly...and someone who has spent 25 hours in the game? has NO way of knowing that...so they vote for whichever one they want...and that's how the game has broken to this extent.




"It's rather convenient that you trust Jagex when something you like happens, but don't trust them when something you don't like happens. If you trusted their judgment, you wouldn't be making suggestions in the first place."

Read what i wrote...i never said i trust everything Jagex do.
All i said is i trust their decision more then i do a community of players who aren't having their livelihood residing on this game.


Also...i literally never use sand. Ever.
So this poll makes no difference to me, its neither convenient, nor inconvenient for me.

I'm just able to view things more objectively.

13-Feb-2019 18:36:05 - Last edited on 13-Feb-2019 18:37:02 by rishinger l

FisherGaming

FisherGaming

Posts: 4,941Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
rishinger l said:
It might be the first time they've admitted it...but there are MANY, MANY things that get polled which are poorly thought out and rushed to be suggested far too early.

And THAT is why we have so much broken content in the game.
Such as?

rishinger l said:
and someone who has spent 25 hours in the game? has NO way of knowing that...so they vote for whichever one they want...and that's how the game has broken to this extent.
Keep that discussion in your thread where it belongs. This thread is about the Sandstone update, not the poll requirements.

rishinger l said:
i never said i trust everything Jagex do.
All i said is i trust their decision more then i do a community of players who aren't having their livelihood residing on this game.
And I never said you trust everything Jagex does. I said it's convenient that you trust them when it's something you like, but don't trust them when it's something you don't like.

rishinger l said:
I'm just able to view things more objectively.
Your entire argument is based on subjective standards for content being "rushed" or "broken."

That's not objective at all.

--

I'll ask again, do you have anything to say about the Sandstone update?

If not, I won't be replying to you anymore.
There'd be no need for 3rd party clients if the default one was decent. I vote no to all non-PvP Wilderness updates, and yes to all PvP Wilderness updates. If you want to revive the wilderness, encourage players to PvP, not lure them to the Wilderness to be victims.

13-Feb-2019 18:48:45 - Last edited on 13-Feb-2019 18:49:43 by FisherGaming

rishinger l

rishinger l

Posts: 1,725Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
"And I never said you trust everything Jagex does. I said it's convenient that you trust them when it's something you like, but don't trust them when it's something you don't like."

And again.
Like i said.
I don't use sand. Ever....this poll has literally no effect on me.
Meaning that it's not convenient or inconvenient for me. hence. i can view it objectively.



"Such as?"

The fact that every single non-combat skill has no use compared to the amount of gold/hr combat gives.

Or the fact that i can farm death and chaos runes through vorkath faster then i could ever create them?

Or the fact that the strongest ranged weapon in game only requires 53 fletching, while a level 40 bow requires 85 fletching AND 75 woodcutting?

Or the fact that if you are getting 99 smithing and 99 mining, the amount of ore you would need for 99 smithing is FOUR TIMES the amount required to hit 99 mining.

Or how about the fact that the previous poll was voting to give a +5 strength bonus to the serpentine helmet when short after release it was nerfed from 5 to 3 because it was too OP.

Or the act that minigame teleports have made almost every teleport spell, some of which were VERY good rewards from quests back in the day completely useless.

Or the fact that the ornate fountain + jewlery box lets literally anyone solo corp in under 5 minutes.

....need i go on?

13-Feb-2019 19:48:03

rishinger l

rishinger l

Posts: 1,725Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
"Your entire argument is based on subjective standards for content being "rushed" or "broken."

That's not objective at all."

No.

When all your non-combat skills are literally dead content.
Are ONLY leveled to hit 99, or unlock achievement diaries.
Are never leveled solely to create new items or Armour to use.
Provide no-where near as much gold/hr as combat does.
AND provide less resources then combat does despite being the skills built to gather those resources?
Then it isn't subjective at all.

That is completely broken.
And that is a fact.

13-Feb-2019 19:50:48

FisherGaming

FisherGaming

Posts: 4,941Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
rishinger l said:
this poll has literally no effect on me.
Irrelevant. You can still comment on the update even if it doesn't affect you.

Will you comment on the Sandstone update or not?

If not, please go away. You've made several threads about all the things you're complaining about. Go post your arguments in there instead of cluttering my thread with things that have no relation to the Sandstone update.
There'd be no need for 3rd party clients if the default one was decent. I vote no to all non-PvP Wilderness updates, and yes to all PvP Wilderness updates. If you want to revive the wilderness, encourage players to PvP, not lure them to the Wilderness to be victims.

13-Feb-2019 20:02:36 - Last edited on 13-Feb-2019 20:04:20 by FisherGaming

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