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The Sandstone Debacle

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MIG_No_Fear
Aug Member 2018

MIG_No_Fear

Posts: 2Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hello Fisher, I would like to talk about the proposed changes.

Here's my stance on Jagex's polling thing: I think it is a bad idea for Jagex to poll something if they haven't finished it, especially if it's new content like revs. I think they should carefully think about their proposed changes before taking them to poll, so things like this don't happen in the future. I agree with your position that them backtracking on implementing this change is a bad sign and sets a precedent, but they wouldn't have to backtrack in the first place if they just thought about it a little bit more.

Regardless, let's talk about sand.

I'm fresh off a small charter grind, and it was totally miserable. Buying things from shops is awful. I liked the polled change because it was an alternative to charters, it was a way to get sand without having to world hop, or spend dozens of hours filling buckets. I think the rates needed a significant nerf, (each sandstone block being worth less sand) but overall I thought the method was strong, and a good alternative (had more reqs, would be more sand, wouldn't be as awful).

Here's what I think of the new change.

I think the cost is far too high for the rates proposed. It doesn't solve the problem of charter hopping, because charter hopping is still faster than anything but 99 mining + tick manipulation, which requires tons of effort.

I would propose making the method scale with effort/mining level, and reducing the cost. I think a mid level account (~60 mining) should be able to beat charters easily if using tick manipulation, maybe 20% more than charters, and this should scale with mining level as well. I think the cost of taking sand out of the machine should also be reduced to around 25-30 ish.

This way, you actually have a VIABLE method to charter hopping that allows you to play the game, and the costs put into the machine would be a tradeoff for the time savings.

As it is, it's too expensive and doesn't reward effort well enough

16-Feb-2019 20:47:53

FisherGaming

FisherGaming

Posts: 4,916Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
MIG_No_Fear said:
Here's what I think of the new change.

I think the cost is far too high for the rates proposed. It doesn't solve the problem of charter hopping, because charter hopping is still faster than anything but 99 mining + tick manipulation, which requires tons of effort.

I would propose making the method scale with effort/mining level, and reducing the cost. I think a mid level account (~60 mining) should be able to beat charters easily if using tick manipulation, maybe 20% more than charters, and this should scale with mining level as well. I think the cost of taking sand out of the machine should also be reduced to around 25-30 ish.

This way, you actually have a VIABLE method to charter hopping that allows you to play the game, and the costs put into the machine would be a tradeoff for the time savings.
We seem to agree completely, then. It definitely needs some adjustment.

Edit: I just realized you only have 1 post on the forums. Definitely going to look suspicious that you agree completely with me and only have one post. lol
There'd be no need for 3rd party clients if the default one was decent. I vote no to all non-PvP Wilderness updates, and yes to all PvP Wilderness updates. If you want to revive the wilderness, encourage players to PvP, not lure them to the Wilderness to be victims.

16-Feb-2019 22:33:41 - Last edited on 16-Feb-2019 22:34:31 by FisherGaming

MIG_No_Fear
Aug Member 2018

MIG_No_Fear

Posts: 2Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Ye, it does look suspicious, but I just have never really been here before. I'm a lot more of a singleplayer kind of guy, I rarely talk to people in game and don't really engage with the forums, I don't actually know how I stumbled across this thread in the first place.

Regardless, I think they need to do something about it, because as I see it, it's going to be dead on arrival unless there's some incentive to do it.

It's not faster than charters, it's less afk than just filling sand, and it costs way way more than both.

It needs adjustment, I think.

16-Feb-2019 23:00:46

TBowSpawnPls
Nov Member 2018

TBowSpawnPls

Posts: 5,194Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
FisherGaming said:
MIG_No_Fear said:
Here's what I think of the new change.

I think the cost is far too high for the rates proposed. It doesn't solve the problem of charter hopping, because charter hopping is still faster than anything but 99 mining + tick manipulation, which requires tons of effort.

I would propose making the method scale with effort/mining level, and reducing the cost. I think a mid level account (~60 mining) should be able to beat charters easily if using tick manipulation, maybe 20% more than charters, and this should scale with mining level as well. I think the cost of taking sand out of the machine should also be reduced to around 25-30 ish.

This way, you actually have a VIABLE method to charter hopping that allows you to play the game, and the costs put into the machine would be a tradeoff for the time savings.
We seem to agree completely, then. It definitely needs some adjustment.

Edit: I just realized you only have 1 post on the forums. Definitely going to look suspicious that you agree completely with me and only have one post. lol
No one cares lol. You're the only one that accuses people of using alts :)
Troll: A person that holds an opinion other than the most popular opinion on a forum, apparently**
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17-Feb-2019 23:57:03 - Last edited on 17-Feb-2019 23:59:21 by TBowSpawnPls

TBowSpawnPls
Nov Member 2018

TBowSpawnPls

Posts: 5,194Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Holy shit, MIG. 20% more at only level 60? You just want it to be a lot faster? Troll: A person that holds an opinion other than the most popular opinion on a forum, apparently**
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17-Feb-2019 23:59:04

FisherGaming

FisherGaming

Posts: 4,916Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
TBowSpawnPls said:
Holy shit, MIG. 20% more at only level 60? You just want it to be a lot faster?
Given the math, that's only 400 more Buckets of Sand per hour, which is not a lot when you need over 100k of them. 20% may sound like a lot, but you're comparing to a method that isn't that great to begin with.

Yes, it should be faster than buying from shops.
There'd be no need for 3rd party clients if the default one was decent. I vote no to all non-PvP Wilderness updates, and yes to all PvP Wilderness updates. If you want to revive the wilderness, encourage players to PvP, not lure them to the Wilderness to be victims.

18-Feb-2019 00:07:22 - Last edited on 18-Feb-2019 00:08:10 by FisherGaming

TBowSpawnPls
Nov Member 2018

TBowSpawnPls

Posts: 5,194Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
FisherGaming said:
TBowSpawnPls said:
Holy shit, MIG. 20% more at only level 60? You just want it to be a lot faster?
Given the math, that's only 400 more Buckets of Sand per hour, which is not a lot when you need over 100k of them. 20% may sound like a lot, but you're comparing to a method that isn't that great to begin with.

Yes, it should be faster than buying from shops.
1% at level 70 mining and 2% at 99 seems fair. No shop dependence anymore.

Btw, think about how many hours are saved lol. What, about 9 hours saved from mining at level 60 lol? Low level mining = 9 hours saved. That's a pretty massive change at only level 60 mining, but I guess ironmen are commonly asking for the game mode to be easier anyway.
Troll: A person that holds an opinion other than the most popular opinion on a forum, apparently**
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18-Feb-2019 01:51:38

FisherGaming

FisherGaming

Posts: 4,916Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
TBowSpawnPls said:
1% at level 70 mining and 2% at 99 seems fair. No shop dependence anymore.
That's stupid.

You'd still be dependent on shops with rates that low. Most people aren't 99 Mining. Not to mention MIG said 3-ticking at 60, not just level 60 on its own. That much extra effort should reward more sand.

TBowSpawnPls said:
think about how many hours are saved. What, about 9 hours saved from mining at level 60?
You're honestly going to make a stink about only NINE hours saved? Dude, saving NINE hours is not very much, especially when you consider:

Shops have no requirements; this new method has lots of requirements.
Shops don't require teleports; this new method does.
Shops don't require 3-ticking; this new method does.
Shops are cheaper.

You're doing an extraordinary amount of extra work to unlock the method in the first place, extra effort to do the method, and extra effort to make the money to afford it... for NINE hours?

Yeah, I think that's acceptable.

TBowSpawnPls said:
I guess ironmen...
Oh piss off with your derailment attempt. Please actually discuss the topic instead of your bigotry against Ironmen.
There'd be no need for 3rd party clients if the default one was decent. I vote no to all non-PvP Wilderness updates, and yes to all PvP Wilderness updates. If you want to revive the wilderness, encourage players to PvP, not lure them to the Wilderness to be victims.

18-Feb-2019 02:15:50 - Last edited on 18-Feb-2019 02:16:44 by FisherGaming

TBowSpawnPls
Nov Member 2018

TBowSpawnPls

Posts: 5,194Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
9 hours saved is a lot. Also, most people would have those requirements done anyway, unless trying to rush 99 crafting, which in that case we shouldn't be catering to people rushing content rather than progressing in the usual way.

1% and you get some of the fastest mining xp in the game. It should stop shop dependence except for those that are extremely lazy, in which case, why are we catering to the most casual type of players?
Troll: A person that holds an opinion other than the most popular opinion on a forum, apparently**
*******************************;<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

18-Feb-2019 02:21:55

FisherGaming

FisherGaming

Posts: 4,916Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
TBowSpawnPls said:
9 hours saved is a lot.
9 hours of what? Buying sand from shops? Forgive me if I'm not really worried about that.

You're making a big deal out of people not wanting to do utterly cancerous gameplay like buying from shops for literal days of in-game time.

You need more than 100k Buckets of Sand, but let's just say you only need 100,000 at the moment. At best, you're probably getting 2k Buckets of Sand per hour. 50 hours. FIFTY HOURS of buying from shops. That's horrible game design.

Now this new method, assuming a 20% increased rate to shops, saves you 8.4 hours. So 41.6 hours of mining sand instead of buying it from shops. That's far more acceptable. People don't want to be buying from shops, and ~9 hours of time saved for a method that is 20x the work is definitely acceptable.

This is especially true when you consider the time you're saving is time spent obtaining sand. Seriously, if you think the game will be ruined because people save 9 hours obtaining sand, you're not really worth talking to anymore.

If that's actually your position, just say "no support" and move on, because you disagree on a fundamental level, and nothing could possibly be gained by talking to you.

TBowSpawnPls said:
Also, most people would have those requirements done anyway, unless trying to rush 99 crafting, which in that case we shouldn't be catering to people rushing content rather than progressing in the usual way.
People would need to buy Buckets of Sand prior to the 99 Crafting grind, anyway, so this whole "they would have the requirements unless rushing 99 Crafting" thing is nonsense.

People need sand before going for 99.
There'd be no need for 3rd party clients if the default one was decent. I vote no to all non-PvP Wilderness updates, and yes to all PvP Wilderness updates. If you want to revive the wilderness, encourage players to PvP, not lure them to the Wilderness to be victims.

18-Feb-2019 02:31:40 - Last edited on 18-Feb-2019 02:32:15 by FisherGaming

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