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e v
Jun Member 2019

e v

Posts: 152Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Props to whoever wrote this, I found it on RS subreddit on a post asking "(serious question) Why is rs3 playerbase falling while osrs is rising? "

I think it explains things perfectly..

"First thing is the combat system, and the MTX. Maybe even just combat, really. I think RS3 could have maintained a large playerbase in spite of rising MTX if not for EOC - people may have even dumped more money in to MTX than ever with aspirations of having fantastic PVP accounts and such. MTX definitely had a huge negative impact too though - especially once compared to OSRS with just bonds as a form of MTX.

EOC was hamfistedly forced in to the game ASAP rather than working out the innumerable issues it had, because there was content lined up that relied on it coming out ASAP.

It ruined PVP completely; the essence and core of what it was destroyed. Legacy options never have emulated properly the pre-EOC combat that was so intriguing to many.

It ruined accounts - countless accounts - that were tailored towards PVP. This was a slap in the face to say the least but it was more than just simple disrespect, it was destroying the community - it was obsoleting their accounts.

Especially without revolution (EOC didn't release with revolution) the overall annoyance of combat and difficulty of optimal performance when up massively, out of nowhere.

Difficult monsters these days rely either on a sort of skill that is foreign to many Runescape players or simply depends on gear - neither of which are all that appealing. They fundamentally changed the combat of the game in a gigantic way. They didn't even necessarily make it worse, but simply different in a massive way. Spicing things up was the aim, but alienation was the result.
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03-Jul-2019 19:58:25

e v
Jun Member 2019

e v

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Lots of weapons suddenly were useless as well; and the intrigue of different weapons basically vanished in to a rather homogeneous system. Changes came too little too late, and even today we still don't have anywhere close to the amount of gear diversity we really should - much less meaningful diversity.

MTX, is of course, a problem that happened as well. So many achievements became meaningless, and in and endless appeasing of instant gratification EXP rates as well as MTX cheapness rose and rose and rose. Returning players were greeted not with a diverse community with clear differences between high and low level communities but more of a homogeneous mostly-maxed-combat players.

The journey has become much less meaningful - it's quite difficult to celebrate a 99 that is, all in all, something that can be accomplished in a rather minuscule amount of time with similarly minimal effort and even more difficult when people can quicken it even further for a petty sum of cash. Runescape was once about grinding - and still very much is - but it's a tainted, confused version of what it once was, especially to a returning or new player.

Going back to PVP, PVP was a major source of intrigue not just for players but for viewers.

Players return to Runescape in a large part due to content creators; with PVP becoming shit the creators lost interest and the viewers did too - that's a vicious cycle in and of itself but it's worse than that because viewers also lost interest. RS3 PVP is not easily understood in the way pre-EOC PVP was - it's intricate and with very poor visual feedback as to what's even happening in the first place. It's harder, as a viewer, to say, "Yeah I could do that!" Then go out and do it. That makes it far less fun to watch.

OSRS releasing completely ended any good chance of a large community of PVP faces to make up the content creation community.

We lost our accessibility.

We lost our old charm.

We lost our content creators.
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03-Jul-2019 19:58:34

e v
Jun Member 2019

e v

Posts: 152Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
We lost our strong, community wide appreciation of achievements.

We lost a huge portion of what Runescape even was.

We're left with something different, and definitely beautiful, but forever altered to be almost unrecognizable to many.

OSRS mobile coming out first has been another problem, and when eventually RS3 mobile gets a full release we still will find that OSRS thrives more by all odds due once again to simplicity, charm, and ease of running/storing on a phone.

The culture of OSRS is also perfect for good content on so many levels. People are mostly preoccupied with long, long grinds meaning new content is needed less often to begin with - on RS3 so many people have already achieved all of the levels and such they want, with the grinds becoming more obscure like pet grinds, drop log grinds, and so on. On top of this, people frequently are resisting change in OSRS! They don't want weekly updates really. We see a vicious and often very long curating process for a lot of their content, with a large majority having to want the content for it to make it in game - this leads to the lowest common denominator being appealed to, perfect for satisfying a larger audience despite making some more dedicated and puritanical types unhappy. The process is slow, and demanding, and understood to take a long time. There is not strained, begging demands for more content that comes out faster yet remains better than ever.

Most of the community has a fair amount of good faith towards Jagex as well, in OSRS, because altogether there have been less catastrophic failures and anti-consumer practices. Their very game is formed on a foundation of the company righting wrongs, and it's been mostly a positive thing ever since. There's never been an "EOC" turning point in OSRS. OSRS began in pure joy; RS3 has progressed and diminished in morale greatly by comparison.
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03-Jul-2019 19:58:57

e v
Jun Member 2019

e v

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The worst part is how it all ties together. Every factor mentioned multiplies off the back of the others to make things worse and worse. OSRS's success almost intrinsically brings the downfall of RS3. The last shred of hope for PVP and content creators on RS3 was snuffed out by a migration to OSRS, OSRS similar but easier-to-get-in-to nature sends harsh competition to RS3 - especially on mobile. OSRS's larger community attracts people, and helps them control the idea of Runescape - "OSRS is great, RS3 is terrible". Even if the RS3 community wasn't tearing itself to bits to begin with, OSRS's community would be there to do it for us.

And by god, so many people love to say it's bots but it's simply not the truth. Bots certainly are more rampant, but are bots pumping up the numbers on /r/2007scape? YouTube and Twitch viewership? Anyone pretending that OSRS isn't more popular has their head in the sand.

Dismissive claims of "nostalgia" are abound as well, but the reality is that there is countless pieces of unique and interest things in OSRS - there's more to it than just simple nostalgia. There's Zeah, new guilds, a PVP system that's far more accessible and fun for the average player, new and intriguing bosses - OSRS was kind of "RS3->bad graphic machine->OSRS" in a lot of ways for a while, but has found its own identity as well. On top of these things, that optimism and the way that the jmods interact with OSRS make it a brighter, happier game to play in a lot of ways as you get the feeling good things will come rather than worrying of future disappointment. These are all real things that go far beyond nostalgia."
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03-Jul-2019 19:59:30

Blackwing
Nov Member 2012

Blackwing

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Kinda funny that it was posted 2 days ago, while Jagex happened to announce the partnership MTX to OSRS one day later. I doubt the partnership MTX is going to get out of hand any time soon, but I also doubt that the game is going to grow much longer, and rather that it has reached its peak, from where it's joining RS3 in a decline. But because it's still relatively harmless, RS3 is probably going to decline faster.

You'd think that Jagex would've learned from its mistakes, but it seems there's no reasoning with shareholders who delusionally believe in infinite growth.
"As for forktails, bait them thusly: pound a stake in the soil, bind a goat to it, then hide ye in nearto shrubbery posthaste."

03-Jul-2019 20:13:27

e v
Jun Member 2019

e v

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Blackwing said:
Kinda funny that it was posted 2 days ago, while Jagex happened to announce the partnership MTX to OSRS one day later. I doubt the partnership MTX is going to get out of hand any time soon, but I also doubt that the game is going to grow much longer, and rather that it has reached its peak, from where it's joining RS3 in a decline. But because it's still relatively harmless, RS3 is probably going to decline faster.

You'd think that Jagex would've learned from its mistakes, but it seems there's no reasoning with shareholders who delusionally believe in infinite growth.


You would've thought they would never had made some of the mistakes they have such as but not limited to; getting rid of wildy in the past, getting rid of free trade, EoC, etc.. I mean they made OSRS simply because they had worked on EoC-without getting player base input and created a bunch of updates surrounding it so they released it and made a ton more work for themselves when they felt obligated to create a new game that was essentially the same but re-rolled to a few years earlier..

It's sad, really.. It's like watching a disabled person or a toddler make the same mistake over and over again.. What did the most killing in the last several years was most definitely EoC.

Yeah MTX is a low blow, but EoC ruined all of my friends accounts and my account. This toon was a 1 def pure since around 2003.. I actually just came back to the game and decided I wanted to start EoC and put my differences aside.. I would say I'm one of the few, because all of my friends who had pures either quit or went to OSRS.

And yeah I would agree OSRS will die too but I do think the mobile versions will make populations spike for a short time, but people will ultimately get bored with it when they realize it's not even the same game anymore.
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03-Jul-2019 20:26:58 - Last edited on 03-Jul-2019 20:27:53 by e v

Dilbert2001
Jun Gold Premier Club Member 2006

Dilbert2001

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This kind of "rs3 playerbase falling while osrs is rising" silly "discussion" again?

As mentioned numerous time even by Jmods and proven by official Jagex financial reports, concurrent users are utterly not the playerbase of any of Jagex's game.

Jagex has a playerbase of more than 8 million active players, not just the 100k-ish concurrent users. And there is no sign whatsoever the playerbase of either RS3 or OSRS is declining or which games has a bigger "playerbase".

Even somebody has to pick on whatever game by misinforming the concurrent player counts as the games' playerbase, one can only find RS3's "so-called playerase" is actually rising while that of OSRS is falling rather rapidly as we get closer and closer to the release of RS3 Mobile and Anachronia.

I don't see any more point of MTX talks as OSRS is also getting more forms of monetization even if some players refuse to call it MTX. If someone has to point his finger at MTX causes a game's "playerbase" to drop, they better believe OSRS's "so-called playersbase" is going to drop more soon.

Also, noticeably RS3 has introduced even more MTX in the form of Portable Vic and the Boost Brew in the barge building event currently running, but why is their "so called playerbase" going up quite a bit lately?

03-Jul-2019 20:30:32

e v
Jun Member 2019

e v

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Part of my genuinely feels they did EoC simply to get rid of pures. For years they had been saying they were going to basically nerf pures despite a lot of public outcry, but in doing so they essentially nerfed wildy and turned it into dead content, albeit a bit of PVM here and there and the occasional clue. I remember back in the day they kept saying they were going to basically make pures not a thing anymore, and it was all because just a few people would get really mad when they got PK'd in wildy and come on forums and complain about pures.. Lol.. Now there's probably 100k+ accounts that were rendered useless because of that. So I decided a few days ago I'm going to turn my pure into a main. PVP is dead, EoC ruined the game for most. I still like the game, but I just can't help but state the obvious for the clueless drones that work at Xagex. Join "
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03-Jul-2019 20:30:32

e v
Jun Member 2019

e v

Posts: 152Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Dilbert2001 said:
This kind of "rs3 playerbase falling while osrs is rising" silly "discussion" again?

As mentioned numerous time even by Jmods and proven by official Jagex financial reports, concurrent users are utterly not the playerbase of any of Jagex's game.

Jagex has a playerbase of more than 8 million active players, not just the 100k-ish concurrent users. And there is no sign whatsoever the playerbase of either RS3 or OSRS is declining or which games has a bigger "playerbase".

Even somebody has to pick on whatever game by misinforming the concurrent player counts as the games' playerbase, one can only find RS3's "so-called playerase" is actually rising while that of OSRS is falling rather rapidly as we get closer and closer to the release of RS3 Mobile and Anachronia.

I don't see any more point of MTX talks as OSRS is also getting more forms of monetization even if some players refuse to call it MTX. If someone has to point his finger at MTX causes a game's "playerbase" to drop, they better believe OSRS's "so-called playersbase" is going to drop more soon.

Also, noticeably RS3 has introduced even more MTX in the form of Portable Vic and the Boost Brew in the barge building event currently running, but why is their "so called playerbase" going up quite a bit lately?


Nice you obviously didn't read the post. It was a gilded Reddit comment kind of putting MTX in the backseat and EoC as the prime culprit for the decline of RS3.

Honestly I have nothing against MTX until it starts becoming pay-to-win. And we're not there yet so I have no complaints about MTX. I'm not even complaining really. If anything I was ranting about EoC killing my 16+yr vet pure, but as you can see I've gotten over it and turned it into my new main after a several year hiatus.

I suggest reading the entire OP because it's 100% correct IMO. I do think RS3 is becoming a bit more active.
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03-Jul-2019 20:32:52 - Last edited on 03-Jul-2019 20:35:53 by e v

Blackwing
Nov Member 2012

Blackwing

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e v said:

I'll put it this way: EoC was rushed at launch and caused lots of people to quit, true, but EoC at least had the potential to be released in a good standing. It obviously didn't, but had Jagex been more patient, it could've.

MTX, on the other hand, will never be good for the consumers. MTX that offers some kind of a benefit, e.g. stat boosts, bonus exp, paying to skip a timegate etc either gives an advantage over other players and/or makes the game more boring to those who don't buy into it, so it's not psychologically optional. And cosmetic MTX, while keeping the competitive aspect of the game in health, will have to devalue non-MTX cosmetics in order for it to sell, so there's no point to earn non-MTX cosmetics. Kinda like how in RS3, MTX pets are more appealing than non-MTX pets.

All in all, had EoC not happened at all but everything else happened the same, MTX would've caused the game to enter a constant decline anyway. Maybe not as quickly, but eventually.
"As for forktails, bait them thusly: pound a stake in the soil, bind a goat to it, then hide ye in nearto shrubbery posthaste."

03-Jul-2019 20:42:24

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