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Do we need Arposandra?

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Deltaslug

Deltaslug

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As Mod Kelpie indicated in the 12/4/2018 live stream,
one
reason why development of the Gnome Series hasn't progressed is because the series implies that at the end, they might need to create a new city ... Arposandra.

Arposandra is the home to the gnomes that followed Glouphrie.

Currently, we've only seen access to their sewers (with the Warped Terrorbirds and Tortoises) and a few rooms during Prisoner of Glouphrie (that section is blocked off to us after the quest).

Now, we know development of a city (usually), is a very time intensive thing. So unless they just populate a few NPCs with no dialogue and a few unused buildings using recycled graphical assets, we'd have to assume that it would be at least a "medium" development project.

On top of that, what exactly would Arposandra give us? Another issue is usually what kind of skilling content would the area need to have to make it worthwhile.
We already have Priffindas and The Arc for high level stuff.
We have Menaphos for mid level stuff.
Other mid to high level content is already spread around.

It's not that Jagex can't come up with something new. It's just with so much in game right now, and so much of it being under-utilized, would we really want to have them develop yet something else for the 75-90 range?


In addition, it's not that Jagex has to create the entire city for the sake of the quest. We have a number of quests where we only visit certain rooms or sectors. Not the sprawling expanse of a city like for the dwarves of the cave goblins.

Also, they can pull from in game canon: Rune Mysteries.
The Wizard Tower has a warding spell to specifically keep out Arianne.
The gnomes could do something similar keeping the trouble making Player char out of the city.

08-Dec-2018 23:42:10

Deltaslug

Deltaslug

Posts: 28,783Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
There are ways the quest can end that still prevents the player from gaining entry:

- Political/cultural issues. We've been lucky to date that almost any issue can be resolved by our char's presence. We either open up ties with naturally curious cities (ie: Cave Goblins) or we're invited despite the situation (ie: Menaphos) or the situation doesn't matter due to hostilities (ie: the whole of Morytania).
Here, the city could be closed that while some are willing to start dialogue and some like Glouron are willing to step out, generations of being so insular, it would take a generation or more for the whole of the culture to be willing to open up

- The gnomes themselves have to leave.
Imagine the Terrorbirds in the city taking over and casting out the gnomes into refugees. The terrorbirds would state that no one is welcome. (if you know on the door, you might get plausible explanations like "we're renovating, it's not safe" to bizarre like "it's national sock sorting day" or "everyone is in the shower" [if you mention the doorbird is not in the shower, it'd reply that you rudely interrupted it right as it was about to get in the shower])

- Dirty Bomb
We've seen the Poison Wastes. We've seen the sewers. Imagine that being pleasant in comparison to what happens in the city.
Here, NO ONE gets to live there. An explosion of corrupted and toxic anima permeates throughout the city. Even with protection, you'd last minutes ... at best.
For the safety of all, the area is quarantined.
Only the sewers are still "safe" to access.

09-Dec-2018 00:08:25

Dilbert2001
Jun Gold Premier Club Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 10,427Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'll say 'no' to Aprosandra.

The "last" Gnome Quest has been brought up in several threads but I have several reasons for a "no" to it:

(1) The Gnome Quest can be considered completed with the return of the "prisoner" to Gielinor. There is really not a big selling point for a hypothetical "war" between the fallen gnome and Gielinor after a 12 year hiatus in real world time.

(2) Jagex has mentioned in a couple of occasions they preferred rework on existing maps over new maps.

(3) There is not really any more good ideas on a new continent, especially after we found The Arc and Menaphos

(4) Gielinor has much bigger threats to deal with in the Elder Gods, Xau-Tak (the 6th and missing fallen Elder God?), and the Dragonkin already. Twisted gnomes and lowbie warped tortoises and such are too petty to tickle many questers' war mongering fancy, if Gielinor has to deal with wars.

10-Dec-2018 00:56:42

Peaky
Jul Member 2019

Peaky

Posts: 356Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'm retiring once my membership ends, so I likely won't get to enjoy such a quest anytime soon. That being said, I'm all for having the quest without Arposandra.

However, I do want to rebut some of this player's points:Dilbert2001 said:
I'll say 'no' to Aprosandra.

The "last" Gnome Quest has been brought up in several threads but I have several reasons for a "no" to it:

(1) The Gnome Quest can be considered completed with the return of the "prisoner" to Gielinor. There is really not a big selling point for a hypothetical "war" between the fallen gnome and Gielinor after a 12 year hiatus in real world time.

(2) Jagex has mentioned in a couple of occasions they preferred rework on existing maps over new maps.

(3) There is not really any more good ideas on a new continent, especially after we found The Arc and Menaphos

(4) Gielinor has much bigger threats to deal with in the Elder Gods, Xau-Tak (the 6th and missing fallen Elder God?), and the Dragonkin already. Twisted gnomes and lowbie warped tortoises and such are too petty to tickle many questers' war mongering fancy, if Gielinor has to deal with wars.
1. The Gnome quest line's story is fairly self-contained, so I can't imagine a problem arising with a smaller-scale war. It all depends on whether it fits with the story, not how long it took in real time to make it happen.

2. "Preferred" does not mean they will EXCLUSIVELY rework existing maps. It just means they would rather do that more often than make new areas.

3. Give a bunch of smart people enough time to brainstorm and discuss some ideas, in hour-long meetings every few days, and I'm sure they'd come up with something decent and worthwhile. The issue here is time(and money!), not lack of good ideas.

4. Just because there are big threats, doesn't mean there can't be any smaller-scale threats. I suppose this wraps around to point 1. As long as it fits with the narrative, it's fine.
Why RS Mobile is a stupid idea

10-Dec-2018 05:46:18 - Last edited on 10-Dec-2018 05:48:49 by Peaky

Dilbert2001
Jun Gold Premier Club Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 10,427Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Jmods seemingly share the same PoV with me on poionts (1) to (3) according to their Live Stream. One can "rebute", but please keep in mind when you "rebute" you are not just rebutting my points, but also Jagex's points for not implementing Arprosandra. :D

As for point (4), there really don't need to have Arprosandra for smaller-scale threats. The gnomes and in fact the entire Gielinor have been ignoring that petty gnome for 12 years. They are not going to Arprosandra for his tiny head. If there are "threats" petty creatures have to come to Gielinor and get their butts handed out to them on a silver plate by the World Guardian and his massive Gielinorean allies. No need for Arprosandra whatsoever.

10-Dec-2018 16:38:00 - Last edited on 10-Dec-2018 16:38:51 by Dilbert2001

Peaky
Jul Member 2019

Peaky

Posts: 356Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Dilbert2001 said:
Jmods seemingly share the same PoV with me on poionts (1) to (3) according to their Live Stream. One can "rebute", but please keep in mind when you "rebute" you are not just rebutting my points, but also Jagex's points for not implementing Arprosandra. :D

As for point (4), there really don't need to have Arprosandra for smaller-scale threats. The gnomes and in fact the entire Gielinor have been ignoring that petty gnome for 12 years. They are not going to Arprosandra for his tiny head. If there are "threats" petty creatures have to come to Gielinor and get their butts handed out to them on a silver plate by the World Guardian and his massive Gielinorean allies. No need for Arprosandra whatsoever.
Yeah I don't see the need for access to Arposandra either, just figured I needed to reiterate that, just in case.

If those are Jagex's arguments, then yes, I see the same flawed reasoning. They aren't the best when it comes to narrative elements and plot and all that stuff. I didn't post in defense of Arposandra being added to the game, nor did I post in defense of Jagex; I merely saw holes in those arguments and sought to fill said holes. I stand by everything I said.

And again, point #4 is moot. The real-life passage of time doesn't matter, nor does the "scale" of the "threat". Hell, we're getting a new quest next week. It's about a little girl who thinks she's a yeti and we basically have to play with her. Not exactly a major event. Some war or whatever that involves gnomes can be separated from the more "serious" lore. What ultimately matters is whether or not it fits with the story of this quest series, and if it is properly implemented. Besides, this is hardly a good argument for NOT having the Gnome quest line finished. Again, we don't NEED Arposandra; that is the entire point of this thread. A Gnome quest series finale, whilst avoiding the difficulty of adding in a new area.
Why RS Mobile is a stupid idea

10-Dec-2018 17:48:18

Dilbert2001
Jun Gold Premier Club Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 10,427Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I don't think the new quest coming up next week necessitate the creation of another piece of useless land mass like Arposandra. In most likelihood, the little girl will be happily living as a yeti with her adopted parents somewhere near Fremmenik. Violet is Blue is the kind of quest Jagex will have no problem doing.

On the other hand, they are not going to waste time on making new but featureless and useless areas like Arposandra just because a couple of NPC in the game mentioned it.

10-Dec-2018 18:32:43

Rikornak
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 6,030Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I would like to see the story finished - with an added city as further reward or not.

If that city was used as a hub similar to menaphos or prif it should be settled in between those two cities: So it could offer some features interesting for players in their late 60s/early 70s up to mid 80s.

What could it be? Agility certainly should have something added in the range between 48/52 (ape atoll/wilderness) and 75/77 (prif). That or making the werewolf/bandos courses viable agility training for 60 and 70 respectively. Even if those courses are adequately buffed they could introduce a niche training option for level 65 for instance. They also could introduce a niche kind of divination colony at level 65, likewise elder was added at 75 back then. Woodcutting might also need something, as acadia trees are the best training option for an extremely long time - albeit that would be something that also could be fixed with a proper woodcutting rework. All in all - it isn't like they couldn't create a hub interesting for higher medium levelled players. Like menaphos it also could offer some high levelled stuff for dungeoneering (think of elite dungeon 4), slayer or invention (gnome tech tree?) additionally.

As for lore: The gnome quest line would obviously play in the 5th age just like the newer vyre quests, menaphos and pieces of hate did. So what would it conflict with, when none of the other ones did? We don't know about elder gods yet, we might know about Xau-Tak (depending on the gnome final would play before or after pieces of hate...)

They might also solve it like they did with prif - the finale comes first, the city comes (much) later, obviously delaying the main reward of the quest for quite some time. But as I said - it isn't like they couldn't fill the city with some interesting features - menaphos managed to do this as well - basically bringing a revolution to woodcutting and thieving, so look for medium levelled skill gaps and fill them out.
Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

10-Dec-2018 19:28:49 - Last edited on 10-Dec-2018 19:38:26 by Rikornak

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