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Trade Lock Scammers

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Whatusaytome

Whatusaytome

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Why is it that an account Not banned for being caught using a bot is given a trade lock but the people who steal your wealth via trades get voice locked?

I understand the trade lock on bots but... If that's just going to expire in like a week, is it really effective punishment for a bot? I've only seen maybe two or three of these trade locked accounts, so I know they exist. But I think a trade lock would be much better suited for scams. Eventually with repeat offending leading to a permanent trade lock.

I assume a similar message will appear when trades are attempted
"I am unable to trade because my account was caught Scamming"
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Stepping Stone Partyhats
Update the rules, Trade Lock Scammers

05-Jul-2017 16:44:32 - Last edited on 07-Jul-2017 19:47:41 by Whatusaytome

Whatusaytome

Whatusaytome

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Taken from page 3.

Whatusaytome said:
The majority of all scams happen through trade, or combat lures.

a Trade Lock basically makes them ironmen until its served. personally, like the Trade lock on bots, I want the similar message displayed when trades are offered.

with the bots example, they get this message

I think they should keep that message, but for scam offenses make it "i cannot do this because I have been caught scamming" and I would say that humility would urge them to learn the lesson quicker, making them less likely to reoffend.

I do not support going straight to banning, but I do support bans if the case is severe enough, or if they are frequent offenders.

As for Jagex and their review process, I've found it lacking myself, part of the reason for the other thread in my signature.
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Stepping Stone Partyhats
Update the rules, Trade Lock Scammers

07-Jul-2017 19:45:24 - Last edited on 23-May-2019 00:15:06 by Whatusaytome

Whatusaytome

Whatusaytome

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I only suggested it to Grow into permanent bans through repeat offending. Which will happen even with trade locks. Yes, some do learn and stop, but those people are not why I make threads like this. If a person is actively scamming, they wont stop just because of a voice lock.

This suggestion is only to replace mutes with trade locks on scamming deemed worth the punishment. although I like your time frames better than existing.

and yes... alternate accounts, one of the biggest problems that go along with rule breakers. needs its problem solved in some way as well.
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Stepping Stone Partyhats
Update the rules, Trade Lock Scammers

08-Jul-2017 23:42:20

Whatusaytome

Whatusaytome

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They've done a lot to remove methods on gambling, but very little against scamming. the problem with both methods is people look for ways to do so including ways you or me might never have seen before, making it more effective if when caught, they were restricted from stealing money instead of restricted from talking to you.

The point im trying to make though is if they have a consequence worth avoiding, they might avoid it. its like seeing a twig vs seeing a pothole in the road, a twig you might not think twice about running over although it might scratch a bit, a pothole you do your best to avoid because it can actually damage something pretty bad. and both are unavoidable in some situations.

the Mute is the twig that people are okay with hitting occasionally although it might scratch their account a little bit. its nothing serious and they can continue making money however else they want

the Trade Lock is the pothole, it means they are restricted from a large portion of benefit in the game for that temporary period of time, which they might not be able to do as effectively on their alt, which is something more worth avoiding, incase they were to actually get caught scamming.
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Stepping Stone Partyhats
Update the rules, Trade Lock Scammers

09-Jul-2017 23:09:36

Whatusaytome

Whatusaytome

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and personally, I don't see it being a beneficial character trait to say "I've been taken advantage of." Sure it teaches you more about its existence, but you should be able to be aware of these kinds of problems without having to experience it firsthand.. The exact reason why I suggested detailing the rules in my sig thread. so people are more aware of what they are there for.
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Stepping Stone Partyhats
Update the rules, Trade Lock Scammers

09-Jul-2017 23:16:27

Whatusaytome

Whatusaytome

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Whatusaytome said:
I only suggested it to Grow into permanent bans through repeat offending. Which will happen even with trade locks. Yes, some do learn and stop, but those people are not why I make threads like this. If a person is actively scamming, they wont stop just because of a voice lock.

This suggestion is only to replace mutes with trade locks on scamming deemed worth the punishment. although I like your time frames better than existing.

and yes... alternate accounts, one of the biggest problems that go along with rule breakers. needs its problem solved in some way as well.


Whatusaytome said:
and personally, I don't see it being a beneficial character trait to say "I've been taken advantage of." Sure it teaches you more about its existence, but you should be able to be aware of these kinds of problems without having to experience it firsthand.. The exact reason why I suggested detailing the rules in my sig thread. so people are more aware of what they are there for.
.

Since we are quoting old posts again....
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Stepping Stone Partyhats
Update the rules, Trade Lock Scammers

12-Sep-2017 23:20:27

Whatusaytome

Whatusaytome

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Ahura said:
When someone's punishment ended then the punishment ended. While it's really nasty when people scam, you have to accept that they too should be allowed to play the game freely again after serving a mute/ban (unless it's a permanent ban).


A mute does not make sense as punishment for a player stealing wealth via trades. How about you visit my threads with unbiased opinions next time. "Scammers should be able to play their way after a mute" doesn't stop them from reoffending, it doesn't stop them from continuing while muted. And solves nothing.

Trade lock prevents scamming, makes them more likely to learn a lesson, and makes much more sense than "you stole money, so I'm going to stop you from talking"
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Stepping Stone Partyhats
Update the rules, Trade Lock Scammers

20-Sep-2017 18:02:11

Whatusaytome

Whatusaytome

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"Just because they can continue doesn't mean they do it". Educate yourself about the subject please. I didn't make any of the dozen suggestions for detailing the rules and balancing a punishment to specifically fit the crimes for nothing. Since I know for a fact you won't take my word for it, go spend a week or two in worlds 2 and 3 and watch.

Please make a nice list of names you see pulling off this crap on a day to day basis and keep track

1: how many get muted by Jagex
2: how many by PMods
3: how many do not get muted at all.
4: how much gets scammed
5: how many repeat after mutes expire
6: how many just don't care about getting muted because the mutes will expire before any real consequence happens. Or their mutes are pmod mutes that don't get accepted on review and leave no offense at all.

Mutes don't stop them, want proof? Go ask them yourself, the many names I am familiar with will happily admit what they do.
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Stepping Stone Partyhats
Update the rules, Trade Lock Scammers

20-Sep-2017 19:52:25 - Last edited on 20-Sep-2017 19:53:57 by Whatusaytome

Whatusaytome

Whatusaytome

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This isn't a 'new' punishment, it currently exists for Bots if they do not get banned. as I stated in the OP to this thread. This isn't an 'additional' punishment either, as it is meant to completely replace the voice lock for 'scamming.' IMO verbal offenses should get a voice lock and trade offenses should get a trade lock.

If you wont take my word for it, like I said, go see for yourself and send in some reports, make a list, ask who cares if you report them, ask if reports have ever impacted their decision to scam or not, ask if they will come back even after they get muted. They will likely admit it themselves. Learn it from somebody other than me.
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Stepping Stone Partyhats
Update the rules, Trade Lock Scammers

20-Sep-2017 21:31:07

Whatusaytome

Whatusaytome

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The majority of all scams happen through trade, or combat lures. Drop scamming hasn't been effective since they removed the Alt-f4 scam in like 2006. except for the firecracker thing a couple years ago.

a Trade Lock basically makes them ironmen until its served. personally, like the Trade lock on bots, I want the similar message displayed when trades are offered.

with the bots example, they get this message

I think they should keep that message, but for scam offenses make it "i cannot do this because I have been caught scamming" and I would say that humility would urge them to learn the lesson quicker, making them less likely to reoffend.

I do not support going straight to banning, but I do support bans if the case is severe enough, or if they are frequent offenders.

As for Jagex and their review process, I've found it lacking myself, part of the reason for the other thread in my signature.
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Stepping Stone Partyhats
Update the rules, Trade Lock Scammers

21-Sep-2017 16:49:31 - Last edited on 21-Sep-2017 20:05:30 by Whatusaytome

Whatusaytome

Whatusaytome

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Wagsii said:
A temporary trade ban, if it includes the Grand Exchange (which it should), is brutal. A temporary chat ban doesn't really do anything, you can still get by playing the game without talking.

And that's why I think this is a good idea. lol
Permanent trade bans might be a bit too much, but getting increasingly longer ones every time you get caught scamming sounds good.


Exactly. Thank you guys for the support! :)
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Stepping Stone Partyhats
Update the rules, Trade Lock Scammers

02-Nov-2017 16:13:57

Whatusaytome

Whatusaytome

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Bans for every case of scamming would be too severe, but if the scam is severe enough I agree with it. Just ban them.

At what point do you think they should consider banning a scammer though? if they scam small increments like 50k-100k stacks, is reporting them going to ban them if they do it long enough to make hundreds of mils over time? If so, why do I still see scammers today that I was reporting for the same crap from over 2 years ago?

The goal here really isn't just to give people bans, it is to make scamming less common in general. Because people just don't care about the minimal consequences they get nowadays, aka voice locks, which for the most part are only given by Pmods and not Jmods and they don't even last 24 hours.

Also, Trade locks prevent the locked account from giving its wealth over to an alt to continue scamming properly. So I stick with my reasoning that, verbal offenses should get voice locks and trade offenses should get trade locks.
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Stepping Stone Partyhats
Update the rules, Trade Lock Scammers

13-Nov-2017 19:54:29

Whatusaytome

Whatusaytome

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Rage Paragon said:
Whatusaytome said:
The goal here really isn't just to give people bans, it is to make scamming less common in general.


But human nature is going to compel people to scam one another. You can't just expect people to one day go, "Yeah I shouldn't do this anymore", because they don't.

They keep going until they get banned.

Yeah, that's true, but not for all of them. In the OP to my update the rules thread, i talk about how many Newer players see those people you talk about pretty much scamming as much as they can until something actually happens. And they get the same impression we all get. That Jagex doesn't care, and the idea that scamming is hardly a problem or offense spreads.

I'm here trying to stop more people from seeing this flaw. Nobody is scared of a mute. Scams need swifter action and action people can seen to raise awareness that consequences exist. So any witnesses to the scams don't get the idea that it's easy money or okay to do.
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Stepping Stone Partyhats
Update the rules, Trade Lock Scammers

14-Nov-2017 15:29:33

Whatusaytome

Whatusaytome

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Transcendent said:
Ahura said:
Now that you say that, doesn't sound unreasonable to replace muting with that trade lock. Though you can wonder if the scam was actually pulled off by trading and not by letting the victim drop their stuff.

What would be ideal is to ban players if they actually did scam, and do a lesser punishment (mute or trade lock) if they attempted this. But does Jagex bother looking at each and every individual case of scamming and see whether it happened through trade or drop, that's the question. If they don't then there is no real reason to introduce trade locks as a punishment for breaking the item scamming rule.


Dropping something then someone else picking it up is still a trade. A trade lock would prevent picking anything up dropped by another player since it is a form of trading another player.
Exactly. The same thing goes with why a person with a 25k limit can only drop 25k. Any more and it will eventually vanish without ever being claimable by others.

Late edit: I noticed you said they would not be able to pick anything up, but that might not be entirely true. A person with the trade limit can still pick up more than their limit, because they can never be given too much. But they can only be prevented from giving too much.

The trade locked scammer would probably be an exception, assuming being unable to trade entirely can mean they're unable to pick up anything.. But he would not be allowed to give anything to anybody, like his own alt, in any way, that's a certainty.
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Stepping Stone Partyhats
Update the rules, Trade Lock Scammers

22-Aug-2018 02:38:41 - Last edited on 28-Sep-2018 23:32:50 by Whatusaytome

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