In regards to why I didn't hide the thread, I reached out to the player to confirm whether they wanted it hidden, and they opted to keep the discussion up. I informed them to reach out via this thread if they wanted assistance/a review of the thread.
We'll take a deeper look into this, and will follow up with you. Please note that as these threads are fairly bulky, it may take some time.
To address the first point of your most recent post, well, I wanted to read all 40+ pages of the discussion to get a feel for both sides of what's going on there, that takes a bit of time, yeah. As for your concern about the player bypassing FH as you mentioned, they've already been informed that they should reach out to us here for assistance.
As for your second point, the thread in which the player felt that they were being trolled on was actually the original thread, created on Dec 30th, whereas the 2nd one that you mentioned was created on January 9th, so they're not the one who created a duplicate discussion thread. I don't think any action is necessary from my end there.
Just a quick update: I've reviewed this thread 16-17-591-66074160, and can certainly say that there was quite a lot of back and forth which led to a seemingly heated/unfriendly discussion. I've hidden nearly 3 pages worth of posts which didn't add any value to the discussion/bickering posts/unnecessary posts that called you out directly. (That was uncalled for.) I don't believe that you're guilty of trolling here, but if the players want to continue wishing for a specific update, I think they should be allowed to do so.
Please allow me some time to review the other 29 pages. (I'll update this post, so stay tuned.)
@C A Z: I don't think that their post is particularly off-topic, but I do think the cancer comment was a little uncalled for. A post on the first page was discussing carcinogenics so I won't hide the post, but I'll leave a note for the player. Thanks!Community Manager for Jagex.
Thanks for taking the time to come and apologize for all that's been going on.
We enjoy your presence on the forums, and we know that a few of your posts had certainly been out of character, and banning anyone is the last thing that we want to do. It happens, and nobody is upset with you. The F/L Mod team hope all is well with you.
@Guthixian, I don't believe that the user was derailing the topic, as he was bringing up a point which he believed to be valid in the discussion regarding the holiday items. I don't think I'll take any action here, but please reach out via this thread if you want me to take another look at any further posts.
@Vlumondoxa, I don't consider the first thread you've reported as spam, but I did hide an inappropriate post on it. I've hidden the 2nd one as it has no conversational value. Thanks!
Edit: @Vlumondoxa - I was looking at the wrong thread, lol. I've hidden both. Thank you! Community Manager for Jagex.
@Nubnub, you're free to create threads with your suggestions, however, if you're participating in the derailment of the topic, or flaming against others via use of your main and/or alternate accounts, then the thread loses it's purpose and it's productivity fades away.
I agree that if action was taken sooner, then I think the locking of the thread could've been avoided, however, if the exact same discussion is created a 2nd time, then I fear that the exact same thing will occur again.
The same thing was occurring on the Kalphite King thread, which I had attempted to prevent via means of hiding comments that weren't discussing the topic, but rather discussing your intentions by creating the thread. That was overruled, and it sorta became grounds for flaming.
I think I'd advise against creating the same topic again as your idea is still out there and has hit the JMod radar already, but feel free to create a new thread.
Note: We're keeping a close eye on the KK thread, and will take action where necessary.Community Manager for Jagex.
@Ignoble One: The thread was created as a response to one of Mod Osborne's threads which was created in the Future Game Updates section. It detailed the idea of the ability to create PoH rooms for NPC's. This update is considered as something in their backlog, so it's entirely possible that it still may see the light of day, one day.
I'm not exactly sure what exactly the mass-obsession is with Anja, but I think I'll leave the thread as-is, where it is.
Definitely keeping a close eye on the thread in the case that someone goes over the edge with their fantasies, lol.
I've hidden some of the flaming/bickering comments that I felt had caused some of that hostility, and left a note requesting that everyone discusses the topic without said hostility as it was getting quite toxic.
If it continues, please feel free to submit another help request and we'll take another look.
Please excuse the lack of action, as mentioned in my response, I planned to review the thread and take action where necessary, however, I had run out of time, and was unable to review the lengthy back-and-forth conversation before the end of my very short shift. Thanks for your understanding.
I'm glad to see that it's since been handled, however.Community Manager for Jagex.
I'm not sure that I believe that he intended to "misquote" you per-se, but rather took to one specific sentence that you wrote, and commented on that specifically, and used it to come to a conclusion of your ambitions with the words that you're using. While his assumption may be incorrect, I'm not sure if it's being done in a way to misquote you.
With that said, with the amount of lengthy posts with endless quotes, reviewing this thread is quite confusing. If I have the completely wrong idea, and I'm misunderstanding what you're reporting, can you please provide me with the following so I can review it with a more clear idea of what exactly is wrong here?
1. The Post # and Page # of YOUR post that is being misquoted. 2. The Post # and Page # of the OTHER PLAYER's post that is misquoting you.
My understanding is that Post #7 on Page #80 is the one that took a portion of what you quote on Post #5 Page #79.
It's worth mentioning that this thread discussion is the opposite of productive, and I'd like to believe that it's really going nowhere. You have your beliefs, the other player has their own, and your opinions are going to clash no matter what. I'm not sure if there's any room for agreement whatsoever as both of your views are on the complete opposite sides. The tone of the thread isn't going to change, and will likely continue to go on like that.Community Manager for Jagex.
Hey Nex, thanks for getting back to me and providing some more info, it’s much appreciated!
Please note that I’ve left the office for the day, and will try to find some of my personal time to check this out, otherwise this will be on my to-do list first thing tomorrow.
Also, I’m not stating that you’re not permitted to create threads with subjects such as this one. I’m all for everyone being allowed to get their opinions out there. I’m just not seeing any healthy debating. It’s fiesty.
I’ll provide you with an update ASAP.
2:00am update: I've hidden some posts, including the one you've reported (I believe), along with some following ones which were responding to it. I've also left a lengthy message which I hope can move the thread into a more open-minded direction. As always, if there's anything else, let us know.Community Manager for Jagex.
@Tenebri, thank you for showing your concern. We've been in contact with them for a while, and will continue to monitor the situation. We'll certainly escalate things should we feel as though it would be necessary. Please don't hesitate to reach out to us if you notice anything else which may be of great concern. Cheers!Community Manager for Jagex.
@G o z z - I'll say first off that you can't add a disclaimer in your thread which reads "anything that I say is off topic is off topic, and will be removed by a moderator." That's not how it works. If a post is genuinely off topic or derailing, then yes, it may be hidden, but we won't hide comments for the simple fact that you may disagree with it and therefore consider it to be off topic.
Now, I don't particularly think that he's posting what he is on your thread due to you guys' past. The thread you created is certainly one that worded in a way to get a rise out of those who consume animal products. I think you could've avoided some of the strong opposing posts to your views on animal writes if it wasn't written in a way that's meant to make meat eaters upset.
As a vegan myself, I've found that going out and just saying "you eat meat, so you can't love animals, you have no compassion for sentient beings" only brings on more negativity than positivity, and does very little in trying to open others' eyes about the successes about the way of life, but rather puts those who're on the opposing side on the defensive (especially if they aren't as informed as you are on what you support/believe). I can't recall if your OP before it was edited explained what you believe to be definition of animal cruelty, but I can see that they asked for clarification. I can also see that they were trying to engage in a healthy debate (which I also took part in.) With some of the questions that they had posed to you, an easy response would've simply been "the goal of the vegan way of life is to reduce the amount of animal exploitation, rather than to completely eradicate it all together."
I don't particularly consider any of their posts on this thread totally off topic, but if you can specify which post specifically, on which page you believe is off topic, I can take another look, but for now, I don't see the need to hide anything.Community Manager for Jagex.
@Nex: After 80+ pages, it's pretty evident that you're opposed to "social justice". I don't see how there's any discussion value left in there when it's been 80 pages of you, along with some others going on about why it's a plague. I've seen the same thing repeated on every page where you provide examples to support your claim, then demand that others provide examples to support their claim, where all that really happens is you end up repeating the same thing about how if they can't that you must be right. It's been going in circles forever. I think you've gotten your point across.
I'd imagine that if you recreated the thread, it'd fall into the same pattern, so I'd advise against doing so.
While it falls under the forum rules, the thread title had been changed a couple times due to the questionable choice of words. Many on the mod team believe that the choice in using the words "cancer" and "plague" to describe social justice is most certainly to get a rise out of other forumers.
You're free report issues in Forum Help whenever you choose. However, especially for this thread, I've lost count at how many time's it's been reported here, and how much time we've all spent trying to decipher the conversation, and it's not a fun read either. While the amount may appear as "low", we've needed to step in quite frequently within the last week.
If I could provide some feedback for any future threads on a similar topic, I'd probably recommend not being so assertive with your standpoint, and not aggressively demand that others provide examples, as when you do that, others just back out of it due to the seemingly non-inviting demeanor. I haven't seen a whole lot of healthy open-minded debating to be totally honest.
Again, I stand by the decision that this thread has run it's course. This was also supported by the rest of the mod team & JMods.
If you have any further issues with this, as mentioned, you can take it to FMR.Community Manager for Jagex.
@Vlumondoxa: I see nothing wrong with the thread you're reporting. As such, no action will be taken.
Also, when reporting a thread or post, can you please be a bit more specific on what exactly the issue is? (ie, QFC, Post # and Page #?, along with what the problem is?) Doing so would ensure that we can handle the request as quickly as possible without having to guess what exactly it is that you're reporting.Community Manager for Jagex.
When we had inquired about the particular bug that you're reporting, it was mentioned that this bug is quite tricky to fix. If I were to hypothesize on why this may be a low-priority bug to work on, I think I would assume that as this is a visual bug, rather than one that is a progression blocker, or one that gives players an unfair advantage, the cost of regressing this bug may not be worth the payoff at this time as the cost could be put towards resolving other more pressing issues.
Rest assured that this issue is surely on their radar, and is most certainly on their list of bugs to fix in due time, so please stay tuned for future updates.
We've done what we could as the CM team to bring your concerns to light, and we appreciate your diligence in assisting Jagex in working towards resolving bugs.
Just because a bug is considered as a low-priority, it doesn't mean that it's not taken seriously. Bugs are the bane of programmers, so I'm sure they'd like to get around to fixing this as soon as time permits.
I think you misunderstood what I meant, as what I meant was a visual bug isn't causing any technical issues that block progression in training skills, completing quests, etc. I'm not trying to make it seem like what you're reporting isn't important, but was trying to explain why I thought it might not be something that is a top priority.
If you wish to recruit for your clan, you could try creating a forum thread to do so, rather than possibly only advertising via using a clan vex (which is simply my assumption based on how you mention that your banner is a major reason why players might not be joining, and I can't see any forum recruitment threads either.) Your clan description appears to be focused on role-playing/lore regarding a specific area of the game, and regarding specific NPC's. It might be worth including what your clan can offer players who join, to make your clan appear to be as appealing as possible. (I hope this doesn't come across as telling you what to do, it's just a suggestion based on my observations. You don't need to follow my suggestion if you disagree.)
This discussion is occurring here as you wanted an explanation as to why your thread was locked, which I believe we have given you, along with confirming that this is a bug which is in Jagex's bug database, and is on their list of things to regress.
If you have any further issues with the thread being locked, feel free to use the Forum Moderation Review thread.Community Manager for Jagex.
@Boabies, the thread that Rooh had referred you all to was the exact same topic, but was created a month earlier. Funny enough, the thread that he was referring you to was locked and hidden at the exact same moment that thread 317-318-31-66103277 was locked at by another FMod, lol.
I've unlocked 317-318-31-66103277.
Also, I've hidden some comments on the 2nd thread you reported.
While I'm at it, I figured I might address a few other things I've noticed from your posts. Do you always need to say "Git gud nubnubs l2[insert topic]?" I feel like you say this just to get under people's skin. It comes off as quite bait-y..
Your overall tone in the debates you partake in is generally quite aggressive, which I feel like in a sense instigates people which leads to them want to refer to grammatical faults as a defense mechanism to get back at you for the tone. It might be worth reevaluating how you approach these situations to have a clean and open debate.
I'm not forcing you to change your tone, however, it's just a suggestion. I could be misreading your tone, so I apologize if I take it the wrong way, and you could disregard my observation if it's incorrect.Community Manager for Jagex.
^ Thanks for that. Currently deliberating that discussion with my peers to come to a conclusion on the best course of action. It's somewhat of a grey area that I think it's best for everyone to be on the same page about, especially due to the modification of the OP.
I'll provide an update and will take action where necessary ASAP.Community Manager for Jagex.
NexOriginsaid: Mexksaid: fast entering an area which categorically falls beyond the realm of what can be considered appropriate for the RuneScape forumsCan you clarify what "area" that is specifically?
It's one thing to have a discussion about valid concerns regarding a proposed law which could potentially affect some content in RuneScape, and another to discuss the use of hate speech symbols/gestures. As it was mentioned multiple times, submitting a tipoff report to Jagex is the way to go for the original topic.
To address your question. It's the area where the thread started to take a turn where it was less about the original topic, and more about free speech/censorship, most notably regarding the use of symbols that are commonly associated with Nazism/Neo-Nazism, that's where we all on the moderation team believe that this kind of discussion doesn't have any place on the RuneScape forums. These types of discussions are better suited for political message boards, rather than the Off Topic section of the RS forums.
It's probably best to stray away from having deep conversations about sensitive topics like politics, religion, nationalism, etc, on the RS forums, and keep these discussions via outside channels that are better suited for that. These discussions lead to nowhere, and simply put a damper on most people's experience.Community Manager for Jagex.
@10hp/Ironman, The thread is locked, so it's not really productive to moderate a discussion for going off topic when it has since concluded. The thread was locked as nothing new was being added, but was rather simply a battleground for many users. I wish to not re-open this thread.
If you have an issue with the action that was taken last week, please report it in Forum Moderation Review.Community Manager for Jagex.
Please re-read the first page of this thread to refresh yourself on how to submit a proper Forum Help request.
..and to clarify, political discussions are okay. However, when they're used to cause unrest, upset people, touch on subjects that are just a little too-touchy (there's some grey areas here, of course), or don't lead to any sort of healthy debate, that's when moderation may be necessary. If you can point us towards specific posts that are concerning, that'd be helpful, rather than having to read through pages and pages of content. Feel free to check out this thread for some guidelines on topics/discussions that should be avoided.Community Manager for Jagex.
Tenebri, I've hid the comment, but I'll reiterate that it would be appreciated if you could follow through with their request, and edit the comment that is exposing the identify of their alts.Community Manager for Jagex.
@Draco, I'll leave that comment up as while it's not adding anything further, it does serve as "proof" that FMods can edit signatures, and the player was going on about how they want proof. Thanks for reporting it though!
@Tenebri, there aren't any rules to my knowledge which prohibit it (except for in the case of circumventing bans, which I know was a concern here.) But if a player is using multiple accounts in order to spam the forums, then that's also another area where action could be taken if necessary.
@Ready for It, please wait while I discuss this with the FMods. I'd like to sync up with them and make sure we're on the same page with these kinda threads. I'll get back to you with an answer ASAP. Cheers.Community Manager for Jagex.
Bestpretzle - The first thread that you reported was previously reported in FH. We opted to keep it up. As for the 2nd one, I don't see the need to lock it at this time. It's it's an unnecessary thread, it'll die out in due time. You're free to reply to the thread to inform the OP that one of the items' price is discussed in another thread, however. Fifi - I've locked the thread. I agree that this was more of a rant than any useful discussion. Definitely a missed opportunity for a productive discussion. J4ron - Done, please note that further modifications will need to be done by an L/Jmod. Sicariu - Thank you for the report. Malua - Thanks, I've hidden the duplicate threads. Micheal - There ya go, the thread has been moved as requested. Community Manager for Jagex.
For the first post you reported, I'll leave it up for now, but will keep an eye on it. If it takes a turn to the point where it's used to bash the people of either countries, or another negative turn, I may reconsider.
For the 2nd post, I'll leave it up. Money making guides could be useful, even if you may find it pointless or not an efficient way of earning GP.
@Draco, I'll leave that thread up as well. While it's simply just a thread designed to bash EoC, I think it could be useful to educate the OP on the current game. Maybe some educated knowledge on the game could sway their view.Community Manager for Jagex.
@Nex, instead of locking it, I offered the OP 24 hours to edit their posts to contain original, non-plagiarized content, or else their thread will be locked. Let's hope that they follow through. Cheers!Community Manager for Jagex.
I followed up with them and asked for the full removal of the names of the clans and you guys' usernames. I guess they took my request very literally when I said "links," lol.Community Manager for Jagex.
@10hp, FMR posts are hidden for a reason. If your identify was exposed via the thread, then it's best to take it up with Mod Lee in the thread to see if he can edit out any info which may be causing any issues for you.
Again, this isn't particularly something any of the FMod team can assist you with. There's nothing we can do to stop players from viewing that thread.Community Manager for Jagex.
Hey 4ev, I think I'll leave the discussion up, as it's not as troll'y as some of the other threads I've seen. If a useful discussion comes out of it, great. If not and it just goes south. I'll proceed with locking it. Thank you! Community Manager for Jagex.
@LadyStarlite, I stand by my decision and won't take action at this time, but I'll poke my fellow JMods and see if there's anything they'd like to do, or if they agree with me.
To explain, the clan name, includes "toker" it doesn't immediately mean that it's a drug reference. Who's to say that the clan leaders last name isn't "Toker." It's not for me to decide what he's referencing. If it was called "Weed Lounge" or "Marijuana Lounge" I might be more inclined to suggest they change the name, but as the clan doesn't appear to be themed around any drugs, I really don't think any action is necessary.
I personally don't think that the player's username is any worse than the many other players who include the numbers 420 in their username, but I'll check in with those who have the ability to make these kind of judgement calls to see if they'd like to force the player to change their name.
@Vlumondoxa, I've just edited your signature and removed the unnecessary portion of it that was designed to shame a hardworking FMod. Thanks for refraining from doing this moving forward.Community Manager for Jagex.
@Dilbert, I'm not seeing any personal attacks, but I do think that the discussion as to whether it's the same Fossil Island or not is better suited for one of the other threads on the same subject, since this one isn't specifically about this one subject. I'm not sure that I think any moderation is necessary here.Community Manager for Jagex.
@Dilbert, I don't see anything that's relatively off topic. Everyone's talking about the same thing, Fossil Island, and were just saying that they'd like to talk about the RS3 content itself, rather than having a circle-jerk conversation about the parallels between OSRS and RS3 FI content. With each party stating that they're done discussing these parallels, I don't think I'll need to step in to moderate anything.
If things recommence in being about what the discussion should be, rather than the discussion itself, I'll pop in.
You did include a comment about the other player "crying" which is kinda baity. It might be worth rewording it so we can keep things civil moving forward.Community Manager for Jagex.
@Dilbert, if you can refer me to the post where someone called you an idiot or stupid, I'd happily check it out, but I couldn't find either of these words on that thread. I'm afraid that I didn't view "strawbert" as an insult, as I didn't realize that was a play on your name, so my apologies.
Don't get me wrong, I believe that calling you a troll is baity as well.
If you're unhappy with the direction I opted to take, feel free to hit up Forum Moderation Review.Community Manager for Jagex.