Forums

Guthix's Time

Quick find code: 341-342-307-65870035

of 6
Agita Sage
Dec Member 2007

Agita Sage

Posts: 6,611Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I've always had an issue with Guthix’s death since the World Wakes - not only because of fanboy love, but from a lore perspective.

From the World Wakes we learned that Guthix knew he was going to die and even allowed it to happen. He spoke passionately of wanting to be back with his daughter and family which his death would bring, and although that is a really valid reason for wanting to die, it just seemed such a completely selfish reason.

With just the reason that Guthix wanted to see his family again, he would allow himself to be killed and allow the Gods to return knowing full well what they were capable of doing and endanger everyone just for himself?


This reason has plagued me for a while as I just did not see him as such a selfish being.


From the Book of the Underworld after Missing, Presumed Death, we learn that when a God dies they do not go to any form of afterlife,

“For some reason Death was reluctant to discuss what happens when a god dies. He did, however, detail that a god gives up the right to an afterlife when they ascend. Instead their energy is transferred back into the world upon death.”

I take from this that if Guthix died he would not go to the afterlife and see his daughter and family again, so then why did he allow himself to be killed?
Proud Owner of the
Wolf
Scape
Community
: 3 Clans, 1 Community

15-Jan-2017 00:21:08 - Last edited on 15-Jan-2017 00:21:49 by Agita Sage

Agita Sage
Dec Member 2007

Agita Sage

Posts: 6,611Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
With the Memorial to Guthix update (great piece of content, although very grindy) in particular the Time Engrams Echo, I believe we got a semi-answer to this.

The Echo starts off with Guthix angry and panicking after learning from someone that he would die. He questions how this person could know this, but comes to believes them due to the fact they were in the possession of the Amserdrwys (aka the Enchanted Key).
From the Light Within we learn that Guthix and Seren have spoken about the Amserdrwys and he is aware of its ability to travel in time,

“The Amserdrwys, yes. Seren and I discussed it in detail, she was very proud of the ingenuity of her elves. I cannot blame her, to step through time is a most impressive feat.”

Knowing this person has Time-Travelled using the key is enough to satisfy Guthix that his death is necessary and the Echo ends with a less panicked vibe, where Guthix realises that in death he could be back with his daughter (GF no afterlife stone-boy :( ) as well as a potential successor (a World Guardian) which eases him into accepting his fate and therefore allowing his death.

So I understand a bit more about why he allowed himself to be killed: he felt it was inevitable, he genuinely had no choice due to what he was told by the Time-Traveller, so dare not fight it.

To me, that makes his death more honourable than selfish, but throws up so many more questions: my main one being, who is this Time-Traveller who told him he was going to die?
Proud Owner of the
Wolf
Scape
Community
: 3 Clans, 1 Community

15-Jan-2017 00:21:26 - Last edited on 15-Jan-2017 00:24:40 by Agita Sage

Agita Sage
Dec Member 2007

Agita Sage

Posts: 6,611Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Some of my theories:

First off as the Amserdrwys was used and was an Elf creation, I'm assuming the Time-Traveller was an Elf.

1) Glarial. We don’t really know much of Glarials past or about her disappearance. It could be possible that she was the Elf tasked to travel back and speak to Guthix, but I have no evidence of this apart from the fact the Time Engram was found near her tomb.

2) Another theory is that the Time Traveller may be Haluned, who we first meet using the Amserdrwys in Making History and again in the Light Within. I am aware that Haluned is a shard of Seren and was only really used to keep an eye on Guthix, but it could be possible she used the Amserdrwys to travel and speak to him.

But if this was the case, then in fact it was Seren who told Guthix about his death. It could explain that even though Guthix was so fond of Seren, he was aware that this Elf telling him this was Seren and during his anger still demanded she leave the planet so he did not “discriminate”. Which would certainly shed a different light on Seren.

3) The last theory is just simply a random Elf that was sent back with the Amserdrwys and that we’ve still to learn/ meet this Elf: most likely theory.
Proud Owner of the
Wolf
Scape
Community
: 3 Clans, 1 Community

15-Jan-2017 00:21:39 - Last edited on 15-Jan-2017 00:28:21 by Agita Sage

Agita Sage
Dec Member 2007

Agita Sage

Posts: 6,611Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I did have another theory that it was actually us the World Guardian who told him during the Light Within that he dies. But he was very accepting of it and he knew of the Amserdrwys existence at this point, so I don’t believe we are the Time-Traveller as the Time Echo suggests a previous time when he was not aware of the Amserdrwys.

“How is this person even who they claim to be? This is not something that should be! How can they come here and tell me things I cannot know? It must be a lie! And where did they get this key from, which unlocks such a journey?”

So I’m glad the new lore has answered a question that’s been bothering me for a while, but now this Time-Traveller is raising some questions.

Who are they? How did they know he was going to die? Why did they tell him?
What are your thoughts?
Proud Owner of the
Wolf
Scape
Community
: 3 Clans, 1 Community

15-Jan-2017 00:29:46

Hguoh
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2014

Hguoh

Posts: 7,418Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
It was probably us in TLW. We know he and Seren were close, and that her elves made the key (with information that basically willed itself to be made and then was lost due to 'random' circumstance). And (in Guthix's own words) Seren told him all about it.

15-Jan-2017 01:36:48 - Last edited on 15-Jan-2017 01:42:26 by Hguoh

Raleirosen

Raleirosen

Posts: 5,067Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Is there an answer for why Guthix was under the delusion that he'd be reunited with his family? Perhaps he was speaking figuratively, but otherwise it seems odd for someone as knowledgeable as him to be categorically wrong on something so basic.

Also... WolfScape? Christ, man.
Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

15-Jan-2017 10:01:58 - Last edited on 15-Jan-2017 10:03:35 by Raleirosen

Agita Sage
Dec Member 2007

Agita Sage

Posts: 6,611Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
That's even more than a bummer if that is the case, he died because we said he would :\

Means he put on a brave face when talking to us during TLW as he was aware of the Key and what we were by using it; speaking to us as if this was knowledge he already knew and nothing was of surprise to him.

I suppose the Echos are more his internal monologue speaking, but overall this is a kind of cheap way to kill off a God :(
I liked the thought of further mystery with an unknown person.


Also, nothing wrong with
Wolf
Scape
;)
Proud Owner of the
Wolf
Scape
Community
: 3 Clans, 1 Community

15-Jan-2017 11:19:17

Adventurerrr
Jan Gold Premier Club Member 2018

Adventurerrr

Posts: 3,183Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
It was us during the light within. I mean all the evidence points to it, on how he questions how can we be who we are, and questions how we own the Amserdrwys, something he knew through speaking to Seren, who's elf had created it.

Over all these theory are good, but the echo was just to explain Guthix's denial on his death, wanting to avoid death because, unlike some gods, he still thought he was mortal. Also to note. Guthix probably didn't know he didn't get an afterlife. I mean I doubt ALL the gods know that.
the World Guardian
of Guthix
,
of the Godless
&
Quest Master


The Figurehead, Face and Representative of W42.

15-Jan-2017 15:44:24

Quick find code: 341-342-307-65870035Back to Top