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Tumeken's beliefs?

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Swolllliosis

Swolllliosis

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Based on the snippets of lore we have on Tumeken, what do you think his philosophies are and how/what does he expects his followers to behave and believe? This is a speculation thread in preparation for Menaphos in June, which we will surely be elaborated on more lore of him.


What we know.

- He loves his people and died for them.
- He likes women.
- His beliefs can be loosely outlined by the beliefs of the avatars he created: Crondis, Het, Scabaras, Apmeken. (Don't be greedy, be healthy and strong, strive for intelligence, and be happy and playful?)
- He is said to be a big dreamer and an idealist that was quick to turn away from problems, meaning he was somewhat ignorant and ran away from his problems..
- He is "the sun that gives life and punishes."
- He supports slavery, if you look at Het's story.
- Pharoahs, mummies, elaborate pyramids.
- Temekel thought he was bad ass enough to stay loyal to him and not join Zaros (despite his reinvention of the ritual marker) for some reason.

Quote from a Menpahos slave named Batal:

"Revolution? Don't be so stupid. We are workers - we were born to it, and will die to it too. Daydreaming anything different is a waste of what little life we have."
Owner of the first 6th age church of Tumeken
| Twitter: @RSTemekel

09-Apr-2017 04:15:37 - Last edited on 13-May-2017 06:05:36 by Swolllliosis

Raleirosen

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He strikes me as a sort of benevolent emperor, without any specific ideology. Kind of like a less ambitious, less ruthless Zaros. Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

09-Apr-2017 04:27:17

PercyJakks0n

PercyJakks0n

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He likes to shout "Tumeken ackbar," before blowing himself up.

All right, calm yourselves, I'm only making a joke.
Swolllliosis said:
- He likes women.

Good to know.


I really mean it, that's good to know.

He doesn't sound too bad, I'll save my judgement of him until I learn more about him or until he comes back in-game.
We must secure an existence for Zaros followers and a future for Zarosian children.

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09-Apr-2017 04:45:54 - Last edited on 09-Apr-2017 05:03:45 by PercyJakks0n

Questcaping
Dec Member 2016

Questcaping

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I'm not inclined to see Tumeken that positively. Just like Zamorak, he desolated a continent and indiscriminately wiped out overwhelming numbers of people on it. Unlike Zamorak, he died in the process, but still: it was a horrendously destructive last stand just because he couldn't bear to lose.

Zamorak gets knocked a lot for the destruction of Forinthry. Tumeken should be held to the same standard.

Also, relevant quotes from the 2015 Halloween event:

Original message details are unavailable.
Icthlarin: This is not a title I ever wished to possess, mortal. It was thrust upon me by my father, Tumeken. Like a child I resisted. It was a different time, and I was yet to learn the weight of responsibility. Amascut and I, we had displeased our father. A memory that I do not wish to recount, though it is never far from my mind. Tumeken's rage burned fiercely. He scorned us for our failings and sent us to guard the Underworld so that we would learn the error of our ways. It is here, and in the events that transpired since, that I have learned the importance of sacrifice. My father sought to teach me of responsibility, of which I have learned tenfold.


- He's got a pretty harsh parenting style
- His equivalent of making his kids do chores is sending them to guard the Underworld indefinitely
Questcaping the Finally Questcaped

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09-Apr-2017 05:06:07

Questcaping
Dec Member 2016

Questcaping

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Original message details are unavailable.
Icthlarin: My fatherů He taught me all I know of humility and selflessness. I only wish I could embodied them more while he was still of this world. It was my decision to bring the Mahjarrat to Gielinor that ultimately sealed my father's fate. We were on the cusp of defeat. I sought to earn his respect by doing the impossible: winning the war. When our new allies helped us throw the Zarosian forces back I went to Tumeken expecting recognition. Alas, I was only to be greeted by disappointment. I was filled with anger. Why would I still not afford me the respect I deserved? Why did he still withhold his forgiveness? But he simply saw what I did not. The Mahjarrat would soon betray us, the sweet victory would turn to bitter defeat in our mouths. When all hope had faded and the Kharid finally seemed lost, my father stepped forward. I can still hear my sister's screams as we watched Tumeken stride out into the centre of the battlefield. I was filled with immense pride as a bright light engulfed us. Our father was gone and with him most of the military forces - friend or foe. The energy radiated across the Kharid, destroying most flora and fauna. It was my actions that caused all of this. The obliteration of the Kharid. My sister's descent into madness. My father's death. But his memory survivesů and I will live up to it. I will make amends for my mistakes, mortal. I will atone.


- Tumeken is disappointed.
- Bit thoughtless in how blowing himself up could really mess up his kids (Icthlarin blames himself, Amascut's gone all Devourer)
- I'm not so sure about "humility and selflessness". Icthlarin's definitely putting him on a pedestal, and to an unhealthy extent. I guess selflessness is a component of his "sacrifice", but wiping out just about everyone involved in the war purely because he couldn't win seems more a matter of pride. Humility would've been a graceful surrender.
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09-Apr-2017 05:07:40 - Last edited on 09-Apr-2017 05:11:54 by Questcaping

Questcaping
Dec Member 2016

Questcaping

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Swolllliosis said:
- Temekel thought he was bad ass enough to stay loyal to him and not join Zaros (despite his reinvention of the ritual marker) for some reason.


I love that one lore book from the Empty Throne Room where Bilrach wonders "is it just because they have vaguely similar names, or what...?"


[EDIT: may as well include the excerpt, this gave me a chuckle first time I read it:]

Original message details are unavailable.
It was Temekel, once the strongest of all Mahjarrat on Gielinor and the leader of the Menaphite loyalists. I wondered whether it was nothing more than the coincidental but highly confusing similarity of his name to that of his god which motivated him.
Questcaping the Finally Questcaped

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09-Apr-2017 05:09:18 - Last edited on 09-Apr-2017 05:16:41 by Questcaping

PennyáDrakis
May Member 2015

PennyáDrakis

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Swolllliosis said:
Based on the snippets of lore we have on Tumeken, what do you think his philosophies are and how/what does he expects his followers to behave and believe? This is a speculation thread in preparation for Menaphos in June, which we will surely be elaborated on more lore of him.


What we know.

- He loves his people and died for them.
- He likes women.
- His beliefs can be loosely outlined by the beliefs of the avatars he created: Crondis, Het, Scabaras, Apmeken. (Don't be greedy, be healthy and strong, strive for intelligence, and be happy and playful?)
- He is said to be a big dreamer and an idealist that was quick to turn away from problems, meaning he was somewhat ignorant and ran away from his problems..
- He is "the sun that gives life and punishes."
- He supports slavery, if you look at Het's story.
- Pharoahs, mummies, elaborate pyramids.
- Temekel thought he was bad ass enough to stay loyal to him and not join Zaros (despite his reinvention of the ritual marker) for some reason.

As a follower of Amascut, I must point out how flawed your beliefs about Tumeken are. Many of your conclusions are based on false folklore that got written into Tumeken's Dream and lies told by biased Icthlarin. The moralistic stories attached to the creation of Crondis, Het, Apmeken, and Scabaras are absurd. They were ascended for the lols and probably because Tumeken mistakenly thought he could raise children better without Elidinis's help. Crondis is currently pigging out in Menaphos, probably. Greed, pfft.
PercyJakks0n said:
He likes to shout "Tumeken ackbar," before blowing himself up.

All right, calm yourselves, I'm only making a joke.
Swolllliosis said:
- He likes women.

Good to know.


I really mean it, that's good to know.

Typical snowflake. Tumeken and Elidinis made beautiful rainbows together.
Humility is self-destruction, pride is the destruction of all else. And He said, "
Let there be light.
"
And then there were none.

09-Apr-2017 07:12:30

MaidenáChina
Jan Member 2019

MaidenáChina

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Swolllliosis said:
- He likes women.
You make him sound like he has three hundred wives and seven hundred concubines

...which we'd probably all have if we became gods, I guessQuestcaping said:
I'm not inclined to see Tumeken that positively. Just like Zamorak, he desolated a continent and indiscriminately wiped out overwhelming numbers of people on it. Unlike Zamorak, he died in the process, but still: it was a horrendously destructive last stand just because he couldn't bear to lose.
He was saving his people from living under Zaros' rule, which was pretty horrible for humans if you read the mahjarrat lore books, and he didnt wipe out a continent, he just wiped out the part of his army that was in that battle and turned the continent into a desert... where people could still totally live

whereas zamorak was like 'If I can't have her, nobody can'
Carn

09-Apr-2017 10:47:12 - Last edited on 09-Apr-2017 10:52:05 by MaidenáChina

Lethalintent
Dec Gold Premier Club Member 2012

Lethalintent

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I still wonder if the foreshadowing of him burning for revenge is ever going to amount to anything.

You don't tend to willingly sacrifice yourself if revenge is at the forefront of your mind.

That and I think the Queen of Ashes has already taken over that archetype. What would Tumeken returning to enact revenge even accomplish? It's a shame. The Desert could of finally become interesting.
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09-Apr-2017 15:50:51

Hazeel

Hazeel

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Maybe an embodiment of the four he created? ...Or maybe he doesn't have a philosophy? Maybe he's just some guy who happened to be a God, found a Goddess, and wanted to raise a family with nothing deeper beyond that?

That said, he has some good and bad going for him...on one hand, he's willing to sacrifice himself for his people...on the other hand, he seems to allow slavery.
Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

09-Apr-2017 19:22:54

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