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Parallels (eg. Idria&Armadyl)

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Questcaping
Dec Member 2016

Questcaping

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My goodness, the character limit on titles is annoyingly short. Full title should be:

Idria and Armadyl facing the Dragonkin (and other parallels)

Just something interesting I'd like to note. Not really a discussion topic, just something I've wanted to bring up ever since I did Ritual of the Mahjarrat a month or two ago (by which point I'd already watched Sliske's Endgame on stream because I'm impatient okay).

Idria died what was pretty much the most Armadylean death possible. She naively assumes the best of the Dragonkin, approaches them honestly and openly to propose that they work together, and just ends up getting turned into toast.

The interaction between Armadyl and the Dragonkin in Sliske's Endgame is very, very similar. Armadyl approaches them in earnest, promising that he would try to cure their curse, but nope -- roast chicken. One major difference, though, is that he didn't die from it...!

Some snippets of dialogue, for comparison:

Original message details are unavailable.
Idria: Whatever they are, it sounds like they're here for the same reason we are. We may be on the same side... [...] I beg your pardon, but we're here to stop him too. We could join forces... [then she gets burnt to a crisp]


Original message details are unavailable.
Armadyl: I'm here to end this. And I could help all of you! I may be powerless here, but away from this game - I would free you. I would try to free you! [...] I would dedicate myself to returning you to your noble roots. [then he gets crispy fried]


Makes for quite a neat parallel, in my opinion. It also characterises the naive misplaced trust which Armadyl and Armadyleans have a habit of falling into.

Anyway -- so that this thread is somewhat less limited for discussion than this, are there any similar parallels people want to point out?
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10-May-2017 16:42:26

Questcaping
Dec Member 2016

Questcaping

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To add in another myself, I've also thought it's interesting to consider Guthix and Armadyl's respective losses in the Naragun and Gielinor God Wars: both lost their entire species (at least, Armadyl thought he did at the time and for quite a while after), with one specific loved one ending up among the casualties (Aagi and Obi'Sooth respectively).

Of course, Guthix did force the gods of Gielinor to leave the planet, but we know he at least talked to them before sending them away. He would have encountered Armadyl in the rawest stage of grief, and I can't help but think he'd notice the similarity -- and yet Armadyl had been responsible in part for the desolation caused by the God Wars. I don't imagine Guthix would have forgiven him for that, but at least he might have allowed him time to mourn, to attain whatever closure he could.
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10-May-2017 16:43:01

Lego Miester
Nov Member 2018

Lego Miester

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Very interesting. Idria was well before Armadyl was introduced into the game proper, so I wonder if they took inspiration from her when designing the character.

I'd argue his plan is another example along the same line of naivity: "Let's hide the stone [again]! I'll post guards around it [oh those really helped]. This will totally work [this time for sure]!" I facepalmed so hard.
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11-May-2017 03:26:25 - Last edited on 11-May-2017 03:28:00 by Lego Miester

Nuada
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2012

Nuada

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Lego Miester said:
Very interesting. Idria was well before Armadyl was introduced into the game proper, so I wonder if they took inspiration from her when designing the character.

I'd argue his plan is another example along the same line of naivity: "Let's hide the stone [again]! I'll post guards around it [oh those really helped]. This will totally work [this time for sure]!" I facepalmed so hard.


To be fair, I don't think anyone expected that the Stone could be destroyed. We already tried to hide/lose it at the end of RoTM; unless you wanted to use the Stone, Armadyl's idea made as much sense as any other.

11-May-2017 15:19:22

Rifleavenger

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@Original Post: This is actually pretty cool. I'd like if they decided to actually take inspiration from older lore when designing Armadyl, and it also reflects that Idria truly did embody what her god stood for, for better or worse.

Nuada said:
Lego Miester said:
Very interesting. Idria was well before Armadyl was introduced into the game proper, so I wonder if they took inspiration from her when designing the character.

I'd argue his plan is another example along the same line of naivity: "Let's hide the stone [again]! I'll post guards around it [oh those really helped]. This will totally work [this time for sure]!" I facepalmed so hard.


To be fair, I don't think anyone expected that the Stone could be destroyed. We already tried to hide/lose it at the end of RoTM; unless you wanted to use the Stone, Armadyl's idea made as much sense as any other.
As to if hiding it were stupid or not, well given that using it generates its own problems I'd say its dubious whether that was actually a worse choice or not. I'll admit that I was torn between both those options, and so wound up claiming the stone for myself just to put off the decision a little longer (and that wound up being very little time indeed).

It's too bad that we have confirmation that gods can easily move around in the void of outer space from Bandos' memories. Otherwise flinging the stone off the planet could potentially have solved a few problems.

However, I doubt the stone has truly been destroyed either, as much I would like to hope it is. More likely it's now shattered into hundreds of still somewhat functional pieces.

11-May-2017 21:25:56 - Last edited on 11-May-2017 21:27:20 by Rifleavenger

Rifleavenger

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Questcaping said:
To add in another myself, I've also thought it's interesting to consider Guthix and Armadyl's respective losses in the Naragun and Gielinor God Wars: both lost their entire species (at least, Armadyl thought he did at the time and for quite a while after), with one specific loved one ending up among the casualties (Aagi and Obi'Sooth respectively).

Of course, Guthix did force the gods of Gielinor to leave the planet, but we know he at least talked to them before sending them away. He would have encountered Armadyl in the rawest stage of grief, and I can't help but think he'd notice the similarity -- and yet Armadyl had been responsible in part for the desolation caused by the God Wars. I don't imagine Guthix would have forgiven him for that, but at least he might have allowed him time to mourn, to attain whatever closure he could.
Hmmm, would Guthix show sympathy for that loss? I'll admit it's possible, but I could also see Guthix instead laying into Armadyl.

There's a big difference between them. Guthix's home was unequivocally invaded and the loss of Naragi was nothing he had any control over. But as many other characters have pointed out, Armadyl sent his own people to their graves to fight a fight that wasn't their own. If Guthix saw it the same way, I'm not sure he'd give Armadyl any slack.

11-May-2017 21:31:48

Mod Raven

Mod Raven

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Mod Osborne wrote the scene with Armadyl and the dragonkin for Endgame and I'm pretty certain the inspiration for it came from that scene with Idria.

With Armadyl, we did try and build his personality based in some way off his most dedicated followers, so he definitely took some inspiration (his naivity) from Idria. :)

= Raven =

12-May-2017 12:02:15

Questcaping
Dec Member 2016

Questcaping

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Mod Raven said:
Mod Osborne wrote the scene with Armadyl and the dragonkin for Endgame and I'm pretty certain the inspiration for it came from that scene with Idria.

With Armadyl, we did try and build his personality based in some way off his most dedicated followers, so he definitely took some inspiration (his naivity) from Idria. :)

= Raven =


Aw, nice!! Great to see some of the older points of characterisation like that being continued into the current lore. Helps the stories of the Fifth Age and of the Sixth Age feel all the more connected.

Rifleavenger said:
Hmmm, would Guthix show sympathy for that loss? I'll admit it's possible, but I could also see Guthix instead laying into Armadyl.

There's a big difference between them. Guthix's home was unequivocally invaded and the loss of Naragi was nothing he had any control over. But as many other characters have pointed out, Armadyl sent his own people to their graves to fight a fight that wasn't their own. If Guthix saw it the same way, I'm not sure he'd give Armadyl any slack.


To be honest, I can't help but feel it might be wishful thinking in part. I've always been a Guthixian but I am quite fond of Armadyl, so of course I'd like it to be the case.

However, it must be remembered that not all the Aviansie that came to Gielinor were sent there to fight the God Wars. That was the case for some of them, of course, but Armadyl arrived with some of his people before the wars had even begun, for the sake of finding a better place to live (ie. not Whirling Rocky Hellplanet). And Obi'Sooth in particular was a farmer -- seemingly not a fighter. An innocent caught in the crossfire, just like Guthix's daughter was. I imagine he'd empathise with that, at least.

They're not the exact same situations, but there's definitely a common thread. Their meeting could have gone either way, or even both. Would be interesting, for sure.
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12-May-2017 16:36:21

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