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Saradomin and Guthix*spoilers*

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Mewzard

Mewzard

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In the recent Memorial to Guthix, one of the memories shed an interesting bit of light on Saradomin and Guthix's history.

World Gate:

"Guthix: I had broken the Blade, and for all my efforts I could not repair the damage I had wrought. Malicious entities poured forth from the pierced Void in a torrential swarm.

I enlisted allies to stem the tide, and grieved for each that fell before their fangs and tentacles. I was reminded of something Saradomin once told me...that he has never desired war, but we must fight to preserve peace.

If we do not stand before the swarm, it will consume us. 'Some must die so all can live. Sacrifices must be made for the greater good.' Now those I swore to protect die in my name. They suffer for my mistake.

It is a painful lesson, the kind of knowledge that forever changes one's ideals. I am finally beginning to understand the necessity of what happened on Naragun."

He then proceeds to explain how he used the shards of the Elder Blade to make portals/gateways with the help of the Stone of Jas, including the World Gate on Zanaris (though it was unstable there).

But yes, in one of what I feel was the bigger reveals in Guthix's memories (of those I have read at least), Guthix had spoken to Saradomin personally during his mortal years, and had to take one of his lessons to heart to fight off the Void Pests (it seems his work with the Elder Sword that lead to its destruction caused the portal to the Void Pets to open), a mistake of his own doing that he sought to fix (paralleling himself to Saradomin's own mistakes and attempts to fix them on Naragun).

That one line: "I am finally beginning to understand the necessity of what happened on Naragun." ...That's quite the powerful statement. Was this from when Tuska arrived and Saradomin and his forces had to work with the Naragi to try and fend of Tuska? Man, I wish we could ask Saradomin about it.

I'm curious as to what you fellow Lorehounds think of this particular reveal.

10-Jan-2017 08:10:55

Hazeel
May Member 2011

Hazeel

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This made absolutely no sense whatsoever.

1) Tuska was (unintentionally) trying to save the Naragi from Saradomin. They lured her to attack him because he was the bigger threat. Why act like she was targetting the Naragi when it was Saradomin she was after?

2) Why would Saradomin and Guthix speak to each other? Why would Guthix reveal himself to his worst enemy?

3) Guthix shouldn't even know Saradomin's name. In the Guthixian memories, he refered him only as "the blue giant", because that was all he knew him as. This is how he refered to Saradomin upon seeing him in Naragi and when he saw him fighting Zamorak in the God Wars.

He never discovered his name, there's no logical reason they would have had a chance to speak to each other. This makes no sense.
Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

10-Jan-2017 08:38:59

Islam
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Islam

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Yea hazeel :/

Also saradomin was the first god to enter the Naragun plane and destroyed its capital city when the naragi didn't want to accept him as their god. Saradomin is just as much as an enemy to guthix as tuska ever was. Both destroying his homeworld.
scary guy.
/
Do not trespass.
memes.

10-Jan-2017 11:26:12

Deltaslug

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The spirit of the lesson from Saradomin is true.

The difference: by the time Saradomin had "taught" it to Guthix, Saradomin had blurred the line between just defending and becoming the aggressor for reasons he thought was right.

Had Saradomin simply gone to Naragun, fought Skagoroth's army AND Tuska, driven them away, then go "yo, hey. So, I'm a god. Name's Saradomin. I'm all for order and such. How would you guys feel about me setting up shop? I'll teach you a lot of things I know and help protect you from other gods like Tuska there."

But Saradomin invaded and conquered first.
Now, it is possible he was aware of Tuska and Skagroth, and opted to try to setup a power base before they arrived to make it easier to defend.
But still.
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10-Jan-2017 14:04:31

Mewzard

Mewzard

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Hazeel said:
This made absolutely no sense whatsoever.

1) Tuska was (unintentionally) trying to save the Naragi from Saradomin. They lured her to attack him because he was the bigger threat. Why act like she was targetting the Naragi when it was Saradomin she was after?

2) Why would Saradomin and Guthix speak to each other? Why would Guthix reveal himself to his worst enemy?

3) Guthix shouldn't even know Saradomin's name. In the Guthixian memories, he refered him only as "the blue giant", because that was all he knew him as. This is how he refered to Saradomin upon seeing him in Naragi and when he saw him fighting Zamorak in the God Wars.

He never discovered his name, there's no logical reason they would have had a chance to speak to each other. This makes no sense.


1. Are you being serious? Tuska was the one responsible for the murder of most of the Naragi people. Any initial hope of Tuska dealing with Saradomin and leaving went out the window as she killed tons of people. He was clearly not the bigger threat. Saradomin leaving did not get Tuska to leave, she devours planets for crying out loud.

2. Tuska would be his worst enemy, given she was murdering his entire race. 'The enemy of my enemy is my friend' moment.

3. I thought about this one for a bit: The memories we got were but pieces of his memory. Perhaps these new memories are clarifying our understanding of Guthix.


Islam said:
Yea hazeel :/

Also saradomin was the first god to enter the Naragun plane and destroyed its capital city when the naragi didn't want to accept him as their god. Saradomin is just as much as an enemy to guthix as tuska ever was. Both destroying his homeworld.


So, destroying a city=murder of an entire race to you?

When push came to shove, Saradomin recognized his mistake and tried to save the Naragi from Tuska. Just like Guthix tried to fix his mistake with the void pests. They paralleled each other

10-Jan-2017 15:56:04

Adventurerrr
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Adventurerrr

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I think it is interesting. As he understood that sometimes we need to fight in order to protect ourselves, sometime sacrifice is required. Saradomin Name was known to Guthix, remember he has traveled through the cosmos he still refers Saradomin as a blue giant because it is what he remembered him by. Why he called him by his name now is unknown.
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10-Jan-2017 17:02:21

Hazeel
May Member 2011

Hazeel

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Mewzard said:
1. Are you being serious? Tuska was the one responsible for the murder of most of the Naragi people. Any initial hope of Tuska dealing with Saradomin and leaving went out the window as she killed tons of people. He was clearly not the bigger threat. Saradomin leaving did not get Tuska to leave, she devours planets for crying out loud.


Tuska was after Saradomin, because he drawed her there, and the anima for food. She didn't care about the Naragi. In fact, the Naragi were the ones who tricked her into attacking Saradomin to begin with because he was their priority. We had three forces, and each had their own target:

Skargaroth was targeting Tuska.

Tuska was targetting Saradomin (and the planet).

Saradomin was targetting the Naragi.

Mewzard said:
2. Tuska would be his worst enemy, given she was murdering his entire race. 'The enemy of my enemy is my friend' moment.


Tuska didn't care. She'd likely kill any Naragi in the way, sure, but as long as they avoided her, she wasn't an issue. Saradomin was the one who declared war on them and was actively hunting them down.

Mewzard said:
3. I thought about this one for a bit: The memories we got were but pieces of his memory. Perhaps these new memories are clarifying our understanding of Guthix.


Actually Loopy's right, they did add one mention of Saradomin's name in there. Although the idea of mortal Guthix just relaxing and talking philosophy with Saradomin is ludicrous and there are much better ways this could have been handled.

For example, when Guthix showed up to banish him, Saradomin could have tried to reason with him and said it was Zamorak who blew up Forinthry and he was just trying to protect everyone, war was the only choice, etc. Having them talk before Guthix banished them, and Guthix sympathizing with what the Gods did here makes much more sense.
Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

10-Jan-2017 17:16:10 - Last edited on 10-Jan-2017 17:17:50 by Hazeel

Mewzard

Mewzard

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The original Guthixian Memories only mention mass Naragi death when Tuska is the main threat. There was no avoiding her or her forces. It was fight or die (flight just leading to die as well).

This new bit of lore actually fills in some of the gaps in the memory nicely. They went from "Maybe Tuska could help us..." to death and destruction (both of Tuska's doing and of her followers) to "Everyone's dead, Saradomin's gone, and now a new guy is here fighting the beast." (not exact quotes obviously, lol).

It fits with Saradomin's statement on the Naragi events, that he came around to fight for the Naragi when Tuska attacked, despite his prior mistakes in said homeworld.

Maybe Saradomin did try and reason to Guthix. Remember, Guthix felt all the pain Gielinor felt. He thought he was going to die from it. You can't blame Guthix for being mad and just tossing all the gods out after their battle ruined a good chunk of the planet he tried to make a peaceful home for people. I could see that instance being one of those moments where Guthix's patience was less than normal.

10-Jan-2017 18:02:54 - Last edited on 10-Jan-2017 18:04:41 by Mewzard

Voraiya

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I recall.

Saradomin landed Guthix's home planet. He wanted the Naragi race to follow him and do what he want them to do. Naragi races rejected his ass. He went 4000% enrage mode. Created a home base high above the sky and send in his army to attack the Naragi races.

As the Naragi war with the forces of Saradomin...somehow Tuska felt and was attracted to Saradomin's Crown. The Airuts landed first. Naragians believe the Airuts were friendly but turns out to be the other way around. So, they decide that they can lure the Airuts to fight Saradomin's forces. It turn out to be a nasty multi way war.

Airuts successfully bring Tuska over. Saradomin realize that he was losing and he fucked up. He decide he will "protect the Naragi races." But it's too late. Saradomin withdrew and left the planet. Soon after or so Skargaroth landed. He loves to hunt game. He's been after Tuska for a long time. And we all know what happens after that.

10-Jan-2017 19:22:52

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