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Nerevarine†x

Nerevarine†x

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Welcome to: THE FORTRESS. Saradomin's thread of defence in the lore section!

This thread is here in defence of Saradomin and to counter the negativity many lore users associate with him. It will discuss logical explanations and justification for Saradomin's actions, with lore to support my views. I also touch upon Saradomin's benevolence.



In the table of contents, click the section you're interested in to be redirected straight to it!


Table of Contents


Posts 1-5: The Naragi, Kaigi's Journal and Saradomin's Perspective.

Posts 5-9: The Death of Chivalry: The Wand, the Centaurs, and Saradomin's Virtue.

Post 10: The Book of the Gods: Saradomin Section.

Posts 11-12: Julienne: Emissary of Saradomin.

Posts 12-14: Padomenes, Icyene General from the Battle of Lumbridge.

Posts 14-25: The 'Song From Before the War' - A Full Analysis.

Posts 25-28: Saradomin's Defence: The Zarosian Extermination.

Posts 29-33: Garlandia, Icyene Member of the Godless.

Posts 34-40: The God Wars Amulets: Zilyana's Notes and Armadyl's Assault.


The Naragi, Kaigi's Journal and Saradomin's Perspective.


The Naragi incident is referenced by lore users to discredit Saradomin's benevolence. Some individuals claim Saradomin committed genocide against the Naragi, when this is not the case.

Long ago on Guthix's home plane there lived a race known as the Naragi. In the Quest the World Wakes, we travelled to the Naragi realm in Guthix's memories and saw the destruction that transpired.

06-Dec-2013 05:44:39 - Last edited on 25-Dec-2013 06:00:51 by Nerevarine†x

Nerevarine†x

Nerevarine†x

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According to the Guthixian memories (memory 2), a magical disturbance appeared near a Naragi city named Askroth. Guthix comments by saying it was suspected to be: "A portal to another world! The diviners were arranging a welcoming committee."

We can see the Naragi were going to represent their race and welcome whoever may arrive. Saradomin came through the portal and demanded to be worshipped. Soon after, war broke out when the Naragi refused, which many lore users blame on Saradomin.

Kaigi's Journal offers another, differing perspective. We learn that the Naragi rallied behind two leaders:

"Some have been following Narix, who suggests we take arms and fight back."

"Others have been following Nakigi, who believes both sides are to blame for this war, and a compromise should be reached with Saradomin."

The key information here is that Nakigi and his Naragi followers believed Saradomin was not solely responsible for the war - both the Naragi and Saradomin were to be held accountable.

This is evidence for the Naragi provoking Saradomin or projecting some sort of hostility towards him initially, doing something inconsistent with welcoming him, an act more serious than merely refusing to worship, which incited his wrath upon them.

_____________________________________________________________

In memory 3, Guthix recounts: "Since dawn in the refugee camp, and I was exhausted. The news from Askroth became worse with each band to arrive. The great city of Askroth was no more."

"Terrified refugees spoke of a blue man the size of a mountain. The diviners had angered him, they said, and in that anger he had razed the city."

"They pointed to a building on the horizon, built on the ruins of Askroth. The giant's army was marching downriver. Our cities were assembling armies of their own, but I didn't see how they would stand a.."

The blue giant referred to by Guthix was Saradomin and this evidence does not portray him in a positive light at all.

06-Dec-2013 05:44:50 - Last edited on 06-Dec-2013 10:31:12 by Nerevarine†x

Nerevarine†x

Nerevarine†x

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With this said, in the Death of Chivalry Quest we gain a greater insight into Saradomin's actions on the Naragi plane.

Saradomin admits that he destroyed Askroth, but feels not only great guilt, but great regret for it. Saradomin was human (before he ascended to godhood) and us, as humans, should be able to understand how easy it is to make mistakes.

Saradomin is very honest with us and reveals that he was a young god who was in the process of discovering his powers and with the crown archival he became arrogant - he thought he should be the overlord of all others.

He does not use this as justification for his actions, he merely informs us what partly compelled him to commit such wrong acts at the time (the Naragi may have played a serious role as well, like Kaigi's Journal implies.)

The following dialogue emphasises how strongly Saradomin's actions in the Naragi incident affected him and Mod Stu has said: "I intended for him to be earnest in his response, and genuinely regret the actions of his past. Whether you believe him or not is up to you."

Saradomin: The ruin I brought to the Naragi is my greatest shame.

Saradomin: Civilisations have risen and fallen, and still the actions of my past haunt
me.

Saradomin: And so they should, for regret begets wisdom, and I have much to regret.

Saradomin: I was young and filled with a new and glorious power. I wore the Elder Crown, and thought it granted me the right to rule.

Saradomin: In my arrogance, I did not anticipate the Naragi would refuse.

____________________________________________________________________

Guthix states in memory 4 that he: "dashed outside to witness a huge, tusked creature crashing upon the white fortress of the blue giant. The blue giant materialised and grappled with the beast. My heart cried out with hope. Perhaps, finally, this strange beast was our salvation..."

06-Dec-2013 05:44:55 - Last edited on 06-Dec-2013 06:20:53 by Nerevarine†x

Nerevarine†x

Nerevarine†x

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Again, Guthix shows us that the Naragi feared Saradomin and they saw Tuska, a wild creature, as their possible salavation.

Kaigi's Journal complements this view, stating: "Our brave foragers, who risk looking for food outside of the refugee zone, noticed a creature, new to our world, appearing through a magical portal. It was as tall as a naragi, and walked on two arms and two legs."

"When we arrived, we signalled our peaceful intentions."

Interestingly, the Naragi in Kaigi's Journal and Guthix himself were unaware that Saradomin had changed from his experiences with the Naragi.

In the Death of Chivalry, Saradomin says:

Saradomin: I sought to make amends, when the beast [Tuska] and the hunter [Skargaroth] brought violence of their own.

Saradomin: I fought against them for the same reason that I now battle Zamorak...

Saradomin: To protect you. To remove a threat.

Saradomin: As long as these invaders exist, your world shall never know peace.

This evidence discloses details on how Saradomin fought to PROTECT THE NARAGI against Tuska. Unbeknownst to the Naragi, Saradomin had made a conscious decision to defend them, in an attempt to redeem himself for the past errors he made.



Kaigi's Journal tells us:

"The only chance the Naragi have is to lead Tuska and her airut to Saradomin, inciting a battle between the two factions. With luck, they will kill each other. Regardless, we will take advantage of their battle."

This part of the journal fortifies previous evidence in suggesting the Naragi were oblivious or unknowledgeable about Saradomin changing and fighting to try and save them from Tuska.

The Naragi were likely afraid of Saraodmin for obvious reasons, yet they knew nothing about the God himself and what his intentions were.

Saradomin learnt from his mistakes with the Naragi and is the only one capable of telling us why he decided to stay and duel Tuska. The reason he provides, as we've already investigated, was to seek redemption.

06-Dec-2013 05:45:00 - Last edited on 06-Dec-2013 06:22:26 by Nerevarine†x

Nerevarine†x

Nerevarine†x

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In memory 6, Guthix recalls the chaos and death Tuska caused.

"The boar-like beast was mindless". "A brutish race of squat, purple creatures followed behind her, killing and stealing in her wake, broad grins on their faces."

Kaigi's Journal says:

"We underestimated the creature's ruthlessness. It attacked us before we could open our mouths - spitting corrosive bile and rending us with its claws."

"The airut [Tuska's followers] have been attacking the camp, killing our people, and weíve been fleeing when we can."

"Our forests were flattened, the outlying huts were scattered and broken. Roads were gouged and scarred."

The above information solidifies Tuska as the perpetrator of the Naragi demise. It was Tuska's relentless and callous behaviour which led to their extinction and not Saradomin.
____________________________________________________________________

A common argument put forth by those who oppose Saradomin is that he attracted Tuska to the realm with the crown archival (an elder artefact capable of detecting other artefacts but also revealing its own location to other Gods). Therefore, they imply it was Saradomin's fault the Naragi died.

I have to strongly disagree with this assertion. The crown archival may have been detected by Tuska, but Saradomin is not responsible for the conduct of another God, he cannot be held answerable for the actions of another being.

It was not Saradomin's intention to lure Tuska to the Naragi realm, and as we've already discovered, he attempted to fight Tuska to defend the Naragi and atone for past mistakes. This was both noble and brave of him.

_____________________________________________________________________

The Death of Chivalry: The Wand, the Centaurs, and Saradomin's Virtue.


In the Death of Chivalry, Saradomin entrusts you and Sir Owen, a virtuous and faithful follower of Saradomin, with the crucial task of preventing Falador's destruction.

06-Dec-2013 05:45:05 - Last edited on 06-Dec-2013 10:44:10 by Nerevarine†x

Nerevarine†x

Nerevarine†x

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Zamorakian Black Knights are trying to access and use a weapon known as the 'horn' or Elora's Wand, which is capable of raising others from the dead.

The Quest involves making difficult decisions and I've noticed some lore users continually criticising Saradomin's actions in the Quest.

One such hard choice is electing to relinquish the wand of resurrection to Saradomin towards the conclusion of the Quest.

If you do, he revives Sir Owen (although partly corrupted) and in turn, trusts Owen with the wand.

If you do not, Saradomin blasts the player aside with magic and takes the wand himself. Some players have accused Saradomin of having "not changed" and still being prone to aggressive impulses due to this occurrence.

However, I find Saradomin's actions completely reasonable given the circumstances. Saradomin warns the player that time is of the essence when resurrecting Owen, and the longer he is left dead the more difficult it becomes. He also asks politely and explains that he understands the adventurer's caution in not trusting him.

Saradomin's actions are justifiable given that he wants to SAVE Owen, and all those people who would not give him the wand were merely wasting precious time.

Saradomin acted in the best interests of Owen, who is dedicated to serving him, fighting for good and upholding order.

_____________________________________________________________________

I have seen numerous people misinterpreting the Quest's dialogue, particularly in regards to the centaurs.

Some players accuse Saradomin of 'resurrecting' the centaurs after they died during the God Wars, only to serve him again until they once again died in battle.

However, it was not Saradomin who resurrected the centaurs when they died, that was Fern's decision and hers alone. Fern continued to revive the centaurs until her sister Elora died, and neither of the two were pressured by Saradomin to do so.

The lore posted next supports this view.

06-Dec-2013 05:45:10 - Last edited on 06-Dec-2013 07:12:12 by Nerevarine†x

Nerevarine†x

Nerevarine†x

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In the Death of Chivalry, Fern says:

Fern: "I convinced Elora to come with me to Gielinor, and aid us in the God Wars. I urged to use her power to resurrect our people."

Fern: "I assured her that if she did not, the centaurs would be extinct. I was determined that, if only we continued to fight, we would soon turn the tide of the war."

Fern: "I brought the dead and the dying to Elora. With great sadness in her eyes, she brought them back to life."

Fern: I sent my people back to the battlefield, to die again in vain.

Fern: "Each time I returned to Elora, she appeared more fatigued. I tried not to notice. I asked for her aid, and not once did she refuse me."

Fern: Elora died exhausted, withered and worn.


The evidence presented here by Fern is very strong, she openly confesses to asking her sister, Elora, to resurrect the centaurs multiple times, and then admits to sending the centaurs to the battlefield again. She does not ever blame Saradomin for their deaths.
_____________________________________________________________________

Fern: "My people looked to me, begging me to revive their loved ones. In desperation, I cut the horn from my dead sister's forehead. I used it to raise my people."

Fern: I was not virtuous like my sister. I did not deserve to wield that great power. The centaurs I raised were soulless undead, corrupt and wicked."

Fern: "They thirsted for destruction. The corrupted set upon the living herds. The undead centaurs turned against their families, and cut them down."

Fern: "I could not control them. The centaur armies were destroyed by my folly."


A very common misconception is that Saradomin brought the Centaur race to extinction himself. Again, Fern concedes that it is her fault for misusing Elora's horn, raising dead centaurs as corrupted, evil creatures, who killed off the remaining, living centaurs.

06-Dec-2013 05:45:16 - Last edited on 06-Dec-2013 07:16:00 by Nerevarine†x

Nerevarine†x

Nerevarine†x

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Now, some lore users will try and discard this proof, by saying Saradomin himself took responsibility for the centaur's demise:

Saradomin: "The centaurs died fighting for me in the God Wars."

Saradomin: "I am responsible for their near-extinction."


Saradomin takes the centaur's deaths personally, and again demonstrates his emotion.

He can't help but feel responsibility for their loss and says this himself, but that does not mean he was the driving force or reason behind the centaurs demise. It simply illustrates his caring attitude towards a race he enamoured.

Fern's testimony is much more elaborate, providing intimate details of the resurrection process and her sister Elora. She was a centaur herself who felt grief seeing her fellow centaurs perish and attests on various occasions to her guiltiness.

Fern also tells of the fatal mistake she made in taking the horn and trying to use the power herself, which resulted in undead centaurs. Not once does she say Saradomin was involved.

It would be unwise and lacking in hard evidence to blame Saradomin for the centaur's extinction.

_____________________________________________________________________

An assortment of lore users try to taint Saradomin, when he reveals he intends to use the wand of resurrection, acquired during the Quest, to revive the centaurs in the Sixth Age.

These lore users say this paints Saradomin as a selfish and cruel character.

But this is not the full picture, as the following evidence highlights:

Saradomin: "I will not deceive you. I have need of allies [Saradomin referring to reviving the centaurs] in the troubled times ahead."

Saradomin: "War is here, the Edicts of Guthix have fallen."

Saradomin: "If we do not fight back against the tide of darkness, my people will be destroyed. I seek only to protect this world from outsiders, that you might eventually know peace."

Fern: Saradomin speaks the truth.

06-Dec-2013 05:45:20 - Last edited on 06-Dec-2013 10:34:08 by Nerevarine†x

Nerevarine†x

Nerevarine†x

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Saradomin is not deceptive towards us, he declares that he does want to use the centaurs as allies.

With this in mind, the reason for doing so is benevolent. Since the edicts have been removed, war will transpire. Saradomin needs to gather his forces but does so only to protect Gielinor from outsiders, so that it might know peace.

Fern agrees to this end.

Jagex Mod Osborne commented specifically on Saradomin and resurrecting the centaurs in the Sixth Age.

Jagex Mod Osborne says: "Saradomin's motivations here are almost entirely benevolent - he wants to make up for errors with the centaurs. But he was impulsive and emotional, and that's often been his failing."

The centaurs fought on their own volition for Saradomin in the original God wars. I see no good reason why they would be forced to defend Saradomin if they did not want to, but they will probably feel indebted for their resurrection.

_____________________________________________________________________

The final topic I'd like to discuss in this section is Saradomin's virtuosity - his goodness.

Some players imply Saradomin is "not good at all" or "not virtuous", because he partly corrupted Owen in the resurrection using the wand.

This is not true - while Saradomin is not "pure saintly", no God can be.

Saradomin is the closest to saintly that he can be, he is good at heart but he has told us in the Death of Chivalry that he is also "willing to dirty his hands", so that his followers will not need to.

Saradomin: I try to do what is necessary to protect my people, that they might live a life of virtue without fear.

Saradomin: ...and have no cause to dirty their hands, as I have.

This is very selfless of him, he wants a life of peace for mortals but comprehends that he must orchestrate this. As such, Saradomin is not purely virtuous, but he is incredibly so.

06-Dec-2013 05:45:25 - Last edited on 06-Dec-2013 10:35:18 by Nerevarine†x

Nerevarine†x

Nerevarine†x

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The Book of the Gods, Saradomin Section:


Further evidence for Saradomin's benevolent nature is expressed in the Book of the Gods.

Domus, the author of the book, explains that Saradomin and his warriors were off in distant lands and a problem with rebels had arisen.

Soon, a priest returned from Gielinor to proclaim the war had ended, but Saradomin did not achieve his goals.

Domus says: "With Saradomin returned, the rebels would finally see justice" and "Saradomin was returning and with that, would come his protection and peace"


Hence, Domus firmly believed Saradomin to be an upholder of justice and a great protector from his own experiences on the Icyene homeland.

Much of the story tells of how the rebels managed to kill some of the villagers and steal the community's crops. Without Saradomin there, the villagers were powerless against this evil.

Domus says the rebels were focused on killing the "symbol of their hatred" which was a priest of Saradomin.


For what reason we do not know, although it may have something to do with breaking the community's spirit - the village felt renewed with unity after they paid their respects to a dead one and a blessing was made over the grave.

Another likely reason is that the rebels began to dislike the idea of order, they loathed the concept of a good world where peace reigned and desired to take what they could for themselves, to be powerful and dominate others. This hatred would obviously be focused on Saradomin's most loyal supporters, like a priest.


Domus began to feel as if Saradomin had forgotten him, and he went to the grave of a loved one, to die in the cold, defeated and alone.

Just at that moment, a bright light shone and Saradomin had returned. The others and a surviving village warrior stood behind him. Domus' hope was reignited and he had not been forgotten.

This story is an excellent example of Saradomin's caring nature and his dedication to justice.

06-Dec-2013 05:45:31 - Last edited on 06-Dec-2013 08:20:24 by Nerevarine†x

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