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Rune Essence Mine=Elder Halls?

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Pantamalion

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Could the rune essence mine be/be above the elder halls on Gielinor?
It has the same structure as the one on Freneskae(paths radiating from a center) except without a spot for Mah. In addition to this, we know that the Stone of Jas creates rune essence, and as the Stone is a "hard-boiled" Elder egg, it is reasonable to assume that the live eggs would have similar properties (with each egg forming one of the 4 spires).

Further evidence:
-hard to access(meaning the violence from the God Wars wouldn't have reached it--see Fot*)
-fits statement that we've interacted with them before
-Seren seems to state that rune essence is tied to the Elder gods in her Memoriam crystals

29-Sep-2014 03:54:38 - Last edited on 25-May-2015 21:49:35 by Pantamalion

Pantamalion

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Robo Hobo said:
Hmm, something that would go against this is if the lunar ess mine isnt the same area as the main essence mine we use. While I may prefer they be the same one for different reasons, the whole V---- being 1st or 2nd age theory (instead of late 4th/reason for 5th starting) heavily relies on the idea that the lunar ess mine isnt in the same area as the main ess mine. If they arent the same place then that would show the essence effect either isnt uniqe to the elder god eggs being there, or one egg is randomly in a different place.

Other than that though, those are some good points, maybe something further will be able to say one way or another with prif batch 2.

Though my bet still goes with it being under the tower of life :P


Maybe the formation of rune essence has to do with how long the stone was there?

29-Sep-2014 06:51:50

Pantamalion

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Robo Hobo said:

if it is based on the amount of time the Stone has been there, then there's not much room in the timeline for the Stone to be in the main Rune Essence mine cave for some thousands of years

You have to remember that the 1st age only began when Guthix discovered Gielinor, which may have been many millenia after its creation(meaning the Stone could have been at the main mine for at least as long before it was moved to Lunar Isle)

30-Sep-2014 01:35:20

Pantamalion

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OR
the stone was always in the Lunar Isle site and the Rune Essence Mine is caused by the presence of the "active" eggs of the Elder Gods themselves(with each mining spot forming above/around each of the eggs)?

30-Sep-2014 07:04:11 - Last edited on 30-Sep-2014 07:04:53 by Pantamalion

Pantamalion

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Subrosian1 said:
Dionysius said:
One thing I'm pondering is how V---- found the Stone in the Lunar essence mine cave (presumably in the late 1st / early 2nd ages). Did Guthix return it there after he had used it throughout the 1st Age?

That would make sense, but the rune essence mine was found at the end of the Fourth Age, marking the beginning of the Fifth Age.


That doesn't invalidate his point

01-Oct-2014 04:09:20

Pantamalion

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Pupppy said:
I don't know - there is some talk that there may be more than one Rune Essence Mines: the Northern Essence Mine being somewhere north from wilderness, and the local to where the wizards teleport to; and the Lunar Essence Mine, which would be supposedly only used by the lunar mages.

That is, however, not confirmed; but if proven truth, it kinda kills the chance of the Mine being necessarily near the Elder Halls.


By the way, Seren's note on the runes meant its high intrinsic magical powers, nothing more than that (I think). She knew that such pure magic could only come from a creation of the Elders - but in this case, it meant the Stone of Jas, which in turn create the runestones.

In Making History, can't we also see Guthix creating runestones directly from the SoJ in a cutscene? If so, it would prove that it is the SoJ that creates them, and not the Elder Halls.


I do think that the active Elder Gods' eggs can create runestones just as much as SoJ of course, but imo their Elder Halls may be located so deep within the interior of Gielinor that it has no effects on anywhere in the surface.


As the SoJ is a "hard-boiled elder god egg", it is reasonable to assume that normal eggs could have similar powers, plus the halls could be directly UNDER the mine

03-Oct-2014 03:55:33

Pantamalion

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Icyene-Gem said:
-----==== BIG PLOT HOLE ====-----

What ingame evidence is there to support your theory the Stone of Jas was ever in Morytania....other than the Post Box from the Hedge mail from an imp which said about Morytania smelling like Dragons and the speculation the Dragonkin's castle is the one south-east of Morytania?

Links and sources please

Also, we know the location of the Elder Halls would be between the 4 elder Chronicles we found...i.e Ice Mountain, Karamja Volcano, Ullek etc etc

So the Elder Halls being wayyyyyyy northeast of the map makes little sence...


The elder chronicle layout has practically no resemblance to the Freneskae halls, meaning the the elder gods might not necessarily be where their chronicles are

03-Oct-2014 03:57:29

Pantamalion

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Healthorg said:
I, for one, enjoy this theory.

But here's another monkey wrench:
The four eggs in the Hall (assuming there are four because of the mines,) would be Bik, Ful, Wen, Mah; rather than Bik, Ful, Wen, Jas. Do you see something wrong with this picture?

Either the Elder Gods can produce more than one egg, or the theory is even weaker for the fact that Mah could not possibly have an egg on Gielinor.

Also, a tidbit: The layout of the Rune Essence mines existed long before the concept of Elder Gods and the Halls even existed. Now, it's possible that the Halls on Freneskae were modeled after the Rune Essence mines, but that's something we'd have to ask later.

It is never said that they can only make 1 egg, in fact, it says that the SoJ had predecessors, meaning they probably could make multiple

03-Oct-2014 03:59:47

Pantamalion

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Cthris said:
@ Dionysius and Duelist Idk why you guys both thought I was talking about the Elders sleeping on gielinor, i said continent, a continent as in North America, or Australia, or Antarctica....


All the elders on a single continent, why couldn't they go sleep on the eastern lands. why the heck do they choose to chill on this one.


We don't know for sure that they are on this continent, just that some of their chronicles(which could potentially be one of many) are on this one

03-Oct-2014 05:30:17

Pantamalion

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Dionysius said:
@ Ezekial

Just because technically speaking there should only be 3 chambers for 3 Elder God eggs moving on to the next cycle, doesn't mean that this one having 4 is particularly discrediting. Perhaps Jas is storing something other than an egg in her chamber. Like herself. Or some chocolate.

Perhaps Jas thinks that her current self can live on throughout the duration of this cycle and also in to the next one somehow.

That's an idea we've never really considered, what would happen if an Elder tried to "live on" past their intended life span by consuming Anima, what would happen?

We're talking about beings that can create planets here so I don't think we can apply much logic here, but I don't recall anything saying that this is absolutely impossible?


I never thought of that, great idea!

04-Oct-2014 00:19:13

Pantamalion

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Dionysius said:
Pantamalion said:
also, if Jas can only lay one egg, then the extra mine may have been formed from some other source(perhaps it held the Catalyst at one point)


Perhaps it holds Jas herself?

That's what I thought, but some people are saying that Jas wouldn't be there as she sacrificed her egg

06-Oct-2014 16:25:51

Pantamalion

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Wahisietel said:
There being four chambers in the mine instead of three or five kind of discredits the theory IMO, since there should only be 3 eggs there. Plus, it's on the surface of Gielinor, the Elder Halls would be underground ;/.

It is a good theory though, even if I don't personally believe it :P.

1)Jas isn't necessarily dead
2)I don't think it says anywhere that the mines are aboveground, but if it does then they could easily be just under the mines

08-Oct-2014 05:22:20

Pantamalion

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Robo Hobo said:
Dionysius said:
Pantamalion said:
also, if Jas can only lay one egg, then the extra mine may have been formed from some other source(perhaps it held the Catalyst at one point)


Perhaps it holds Jas herself?


I don't think Jas would be there due to this:


"Q: Are the Elder Chronicles we can find with the Measure after the quest indicative of the current locations of the four Elder Gods?
Q: What is the association between the Elder God of Earth and Entrana?
Mod Rowley: Yes. So, you know when we said you'd interacted with elder gods in the past...? 'Walking on' is an interaction."

-Fate of the Gods FAQ

(Jas's chronicle is near Ullek)

That doesn't definitively state that you did walk on them, just that if you did, it would be an interaction

08-Oct-2014 05:23:13

Pantamalion

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Cthris said:
I wonder how the egg laying works. From what I see on this thread most people are assuming each elder god produces their own egg... But what if thats not how it works. What if they all work together to produce a batch of eggs, and infuse each egg with their respective essences, similar to the Tzharr infusing ghal with their memories.


This would mean that they would be able to create 5 eggs originally (Though less powerful then previous generations as they don't have mah) as they don't require mah to lay the specific egg.


This would be why Jas would hard boil an egg, most likely the one that would be infused with mahs essence, seeing as it would be useless since they though mah was still born. This would mean their is still 4 eggs left making this theory valid.

An interesting thing to note is that the stone of jas has never done anything that one would associate with jas, no time travel etc. But instead pretty much everything it has done is increase potential in things, from making the lunar clan, and the cave goblins smarter, to creating runes that allowed humans to rise up above the other races, to giving lucien vast amounts of power allowing him to dominate the other mahjarrat. These are all things i would associate with mah.

That sounds reasonable :)

08-Oct-2014 05:24:21

Pantamalion

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Dionysius said:
Interesting theory Noct, it would be interesting as well if this is something that Jas did not tell the other three Elders she was doing either, and disguised it as her own egg, hence the hexagonal markings on the Stone, thereby ensuring her own reincarnation and also the successful creation of the universe. She is so smart.

I really hope these theories are true, but we may be over thinking it

08-Oct-2014 09:06:18

Pantamalion

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Cthris said:
^ As far as I know, it was never said, or proven anywhere that the stone of jas was destined to hatch a baby jas.

Anyways do we really know what the symbols mean on the eggs?

What if they don't refer to who is who? Just to shoot a random idea out there, but what if it decides the social order of the elder gods, so maybe the next cycle Mah was supposed to be "head" elder god? It has nothing to do with who is who... Or what if it decides who is oldest, or who who has the most power. It could be a number of things, but right away we assume that it has to be some sort of identification....

Most of what we think we know is just conjecture that;s been commonly accepted

I still feel like the idea of the symbols due to Jas putting the most effort into it sounds fairly good

09-Oct-2014 04:18:52

Pantamalion

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Vardan said:
Cthris said:
^ As far as I know, it was never said, or proven anywhere that the stone of jas was destined to hatch a baby jas.

Anyways do we really know what the symbols mean on the eggs?

What if they don't refer to who is who? Just to shoot a random idea out there, but what if it decides the social order of the elder gods, so maybe the next cycle Mah was supposed to be "head" elder god? It has nothing to do with who is who... Or what if it decides who is oldest, or who who has the most power. It could be a number of things, but right away we assume that it has to be some sort of identification....

Most of what we think we know is just conjecture that;s been commonly accepted

No it was confirmed somewhere that the complexity of the pattern on the egg shows which Elder God it is. Jas being the most powerful, has hexagons on her Stone. I think it was the Fot* FAQ.

Edit (Found it):
Q: Is Jas the "Eldest Sister" just as Mah is the youngest?
Mod Rowley: Yes. Their relative pecking order is denoted by the complexity of the patterns on the fragmented spheres.

That just means the shell holds Jas's power, it may have originally been made to held Mah's, but it doesn't anymore. This solves the problem of having 4 halls instead of 3(I personally am pretty sure they wouldn't kill of Jas as she has been so influential in the lore)

09-Oct-2014 06:47:11

Pantamalion

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Vardan said:
Dionysius said:
Kylian said:
sooo, do the other elder gods have "eggs" aswell then? or are these (according to this awesome theory) in the essence mine rock formations?


Yes, every living Elder God should (if everything was as it should be) have an egg to hatch their reincarnation.

As for where they are, I would suggest that they are either buried within the rock formation that we mine the Essence from or they are located exactly below these rock formations.

---

Also @Noct I remember Mod Rowl*y confirming the shapes denoting the pecking order of the Elders, i.*. that Jas is up the top because hers has more sides and Mah down the bottom. However that doesn't invalidate your opinion, as Pantamalion suggested perhaps that one was meant to house Jas' essence but instead they used it for Mah's and just did a little switcheroo.

One problem with this is that I remember someone saying somewhere that there used to be more Elder Gods, but that they've slowly been dying off, and now they're reduced to just five.

That doesn't disprove it, they may have simply left all the previous unfilled eggs behind(and so they were destroyed at the end of each cycle).

10-Oct-2014 01:56:39

Pantamalion

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Edzter said:
It's a nice theory and I had lots of thoughts about it after I found that seren memory.

One thing that bugs me is that the rune essence mine is full of snow and cold, and there is only 1 elder god that can emit cold (according to the elder halls in frenes**a). Surely FuL's presence would not let the snow stay there like that.

And let's not forget the elder chronicles we found with the measure.


But then there's one of the guys from the wizards tower that has a theory that we wont be able to use the rune altars forever as they will eventually run out, and could that be linked towards the great revision.


The snow may be caused just by the location on the planet, the other elements could still just exist beneath the mine(the Freneskae halls don't have their elements going much further than their chambers(and that was only after the gods "hatched" )

11-Oct-2014 02:09:24 - Last edited on 17-Oct-2014 23:04:11 by Pantamalion

Pantamalion

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Dionysius said:
Slayer Gem said:
The Measure is a tool to measure the level of anima right? Well, the Elder Gods are feeding on that anima, so that would mean that if the rune essence mine is indeed the Elder halls, it would be the first to be sucked dry from anima i think. The measure won't work there.


Interesting conclusion, and a possible one.

However it did still work on Freneskae - a planet on which the anima was nearly entirely depleted, so not entirely conclusive.

But even then, it only works in the presence of Mah, who is constantly leaking anima

19-Oct-2014 19:05:11

Pantamalion

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Last Prophet said:
Pantamalion said:
We don't necessarily know that this is unique to this cycle, the Freneskae halls could have resembled that pre-wakening


I suppose it's possible to merge a pocket dimension into its larger parent plane, although not without consequence; perhaps the birthing volcano that Mah and her sisters were (presumably) revived in was the result of their awakening?

Imagine bringing your POH from its pocket dimension to Gielinor - what effect would that have on the landscape? One must account for all of the components being forced into a space already occupied by any number of materials (air, stone, wood, etc.) I would imagine teleportation is actually a very messy, technical business.

Also, they may not necessarily be in pocket dimensions, just very remote locations

29-Nov-2014 00:43:12

Pantamalion

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0XAL said:

I believe the Mouthpieces were situated directly above the Elder God's sleeping place - the Elder Chronicles' placements seem to confirm this. I.E Jas is under Ullek, etc. The Elder Halls' paths would have to be significantly long to span all the way across Gielinor, unlike Freneskae, where all 5 Elder Gods were asleep under the Volcano. This also deviates from this theory.

If the Freneskae hall was relatively small, why should Gielinor's span the continent?
It would seem more reasonable that the Kra and the chronicles symbolize something other than the Elder Hall's location(plus, we don't technically know that the Kra were where the chronicles were, we had to go through a portal to get to them)

07-Jan-2015 00:31:11 - Last edited on 07-Jan-2015 00:32:46 by Pantamalion

Pantamalion

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Hguoh said:
Pantamalion said:
0XAL said:

I believe the Mouthpieces were situated directly above the Elder God's sleeping place - the Elder Chronicles' placements seem to confirm this. I.E Jas is under Ullek, etc. The Elder Halls' paths would have to be significantly long to span all the way across Gielinor, unlike Freneskae, where all 5 Elder Gods were asleep under the Volcano. This also deviates from this theory.

If the Freneskae hall was relatively small, why should Gielinor's span the continent?
It would seem more reasonable that the Kra and the chronicles symbolize something other than the Elder Hall's location(plus, we don't technically know that the Kra were where the chronicles were, we had to go through a portal to get to them)


Wen*ra says that Wen lies beneath it. Also, Azzanadra's post quest dialogue on the matter kind of implies that the chamber of Wen*ra is in the mountain the portal was on.


The small size of the Freneskaean eggs and the apparent enormous size of Wen might indicate that the old Elder Gods and the new eggs in the Halls are not the same.

08-Jan-2015 22:42:31

Pantamalion

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Yusou Bhoroi said:
I'd still like an explanation for why the environment/location is (or at least has been, in the past) so variable.

In some ways, it may be to represent multiple locations.. in others it may just be to represent warping due to high magic (though, either way, it was either decided upon ~ 10 Years ago, or it was done for a different reason, which just happens fit with/influences current lore).

What locations are you referring to?
The Halls on Freneskae vs Gielinor, the Elder Chronicles, or something else entirely?

11-Feb-2015 07:08:52

Pantamalion

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Nolhiir said:
^Glad to see the rest of that Azzy dialogue. I clicked away before I got to disappoint him because Java is inconvenient.

Though now that we know (a bit) more about anima, runes, and magic, it might be good to look back at this theory.
The existance of a second rune essence mine is still a bit contradictory... the Catalyst probably acts much differently from a live elder god egg.
Also... shouldn't the elder halls be a bit... larger, and more grand?
Perhaps the rune essence mine is simply where Wen's egg resides?

(Probably brought up already, but this thread deserves the conversation.)


There isn't any reason for the mine to be grand, it's not like the elder gods were trying to impress anyone. Plus, the halls on Freneskae aren't that big or grand either (with most of the awe-inspiring aesthetic coming solely from the post-apocalyptic type theme and not the halls in and of themselves).

But besides that, the mine might be on top of the halls instead of the halls themselves

10-Apr-2015 04:40:23

Pantamalion

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Subrosian1 said:
Ced Asheron said:
Pantamalion said:
Subrosian1 said:
Dionysius said:
One thing I'm pondering is how V---- found the Stone in the Lunar essence mine cave (presumably in the late 1st / early 2nd ages). Did Guthix return it there after he had used it throughout the 1st Age?

That would make sense, but the rune essence mine was found at the end of the Fourth Age, marking the beginning of the Fifth Age.


That doesn't invalidate his point

it actually makes it more valid- the teleport spell to the mine was found in the end of the fourth age- not the rune essence.


Teleportation spells - including the Senventior disthine molenko spell used to go to the mine - were only created at the year 70 of the Fifth Age, when the First Wizards Tower was destroyed. Between years 1 and 70 of the Fifth Age, wizards needed to travel by sea to get to the mine - which is another evidence that they're on ground level, not a deep cave.


How is that evidence? You can travel by sea to get to a cave.

15-May-2015 23:03:40

Pantamalion

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Avaryss said:
It should be noted that the Rune essence mine, though secluded from the rest of RuneScape and accessible only through a certain teleportation spell, is nevertheless a part of Gielinor (unlike the Runecrafting altars or Runecrafting Guild), located in the ice fields to the north.

-Taken from the Runescape Wikia.

could you clarify what you mean by this?

25-Aug-2015 03:37:41

Pantamalion

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Avaryss said:
Pantamalion said:

could you clarify what you mean by this?


Apparently the Rune Essence mine isn't in a pocket dimension or on another plane. They are on Gielinor itself but just far to the north within ice fields that we maybe haven't discovered yet.
Yes, that was one assumption on which this thread was made

27-Aug-2015 00:05:36

Pantamalion

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Big Storms said:
Wow this surprises me greatly. The lack of mentioning clearly present new information that is.

Lore hunters that have gone the extra mile gathering the God Wars Dungeon 2 lore without skipping dialogue should know that this dungeon is the heart of Gielinor, where all Anima gathers to be redirected, for a large extend to the elder halls. I don't know what other people think about this, but to me it sounds likely that the Elder Halls are thus located nearby, in other words: under the Kharadian desert.

Having the rune essence mine in the exact same place seems unlikely: the God Wars 2 Dungeon is already highly contested for its contents. If the rune essence mine would in reality be the elder halls, I would have expected that already being highly contested as well, as it is readily available to the general public. Unless one goes by the assumption the wizards guild regards these mines as a great secret while only letting a few select ones in. Again unlikely though with all the pressure exerted by the god fractions.

In short, the absence of god activity at the rune essence mines makes them holding the Elder God eggs highly unlikely. We saw how powerful one can be (Stone of Jas), so I take it they hold great value for the gods in terms of being used as elder weapons. It would not surprise me if this is the reason all these fractions are present in the gwd2. Then again, the essence mines not having any god related activity might just be a plot hole due to it being such old content that it has not been updated properly yet.

I agree that the Halls are most likely (near) the Heart as well, which is unfortunate because it would have been more fun if it was an old, unassuming location as opposed to creating an entirely new one

30-Mar-2016 00:10:47

Pantamalion

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Alchimous said:
Big Storms said:
Pantamalion said:
Big Storms said:

I agree that the Halls are most likely (near) the Heart as well, which is unfortunate because it would have been more fun if it was an old, unassuming location as opposed to creating an entirely new one

I fully agree with that: when I first read this thread it sounded like a great and logical idea. Besides, there is still the off chance of the essence mines playing a vital role for the Elder Halls: we do not know where they are exactly located, so why couldn't they in fact be in the desert as well? And like I said, the essence mines are old content, which might mean they are not yet updated to the current lore.
First off, a quote from the Tales.
Original message details are unavailable.
"It has been dubbed 'The Heart' for a reason. The anima - the life blood - filters in and is then pumped elsewhere. It seems to be directed somewhere, though. Perhaps it is sustaining something, but it would seem that is yet to be discovered."
This tells me that nothing has changed, and the new lore of the essence mine still has it in the north, rune memories confirmed this. The Elder Halls can still be under the mine, but it is definitely not in The Heart. Everything we know about The Heart tells me it's the desert Elder Artefact, which puts us at 10. Only the Abbinah artefact and an unknown one remain.

Interesting... that could also mean it's being pumped deeper into the planet, but I guess this still leaves the essence mine a viable location

05-Apr-2016 03:16:29

Pantamalion

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N7spongy said:
The elder gods in Origins of Gielinor were some of their earliest designs and are much different now. Also guys is everyone missing the obvious solution? We know where each elder God is located, so why don't we go to one of the spots where they are and dig down till we reach it? Wouldn't that solve the problem? If this was the case the rune essence mine theory is wrong since its stated to be in the far north.
In Fot*, Zaros indicates that the Halls are a single location which was untouched by the God Wars, more or less ruling out the locations of the Kra

17-Apr-2016 21:41:09

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