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What Ifs #1: WE1 Zamorak Wins

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BarryManilow
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BarryManilow

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The World Events were one of the real times where players could decide the direction of the game. When the Edicts broke, Saradomin and Zamorak were the first gods to directly confront each other, their conflict would eventually create the Lumbridge Crater.

With help from the players, Saradomin defeated Zamorak, draining a large portion of the latter's powers. Saradomin absorbed a significant portion of Zamorak's essence, ascending to the next tier of godhood.

While Zamorak still lives, much of his personal journey since then has been motivated by regaining the power that he lost fighting Saradomin. He set forth the events of bringing Nomad back to life and attempting to steal the Stone of Jas from Sliske. I'm not sure what Saradomin has done with his new divine powers since I'm just getting back into quests after a long leave from playing this game.

So knowing all that we know now, what do you think would have happened if Zamorak won the first World Event instead of Saradomin? Do you think that Jagex would have killed off Saradomin; especially since the character was portrayed in a villainous light at the time? Would the Kinshra have been able to reclaim Falador against the White Knights now that Saradomin is weakened/dead and Zamorak is empowered? What would be the fate of Nomad, had he not been convinced to be spared due to the World Guardian's involvement in Zamorak's heist of the SoJ?
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10-May-2017 18:28:00

ZAmorakZaros
Apr Gold Premier Club Member 2013

ZAmorakZaros

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Jagex maybe would have killed saradomin off. Maybe even most likely. After that, Zamorak would have most likely left lumbridge.

Saradomin's power gain was not from zamorak by the way. It was from Guthix.

Nomad would have found a way. Jagex clearly would not have let him be like that.
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10-May-2017 21:11:06

Ancient Drew
Nov Member 2018

Ancient Drew

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I don't think Dishonour Among Thieves would have even happened for one thing. Therefore, Zamorak wouldn't have been portrayed in the revolutionary light; he had been made out to be a villain looooooong before Saradomin. The event would have proved that the playerbase prefer the bad guy.

As for the Kinshra, they seem to conflict with each other and confuse Zamorak as the god of evil as opposed to the god of constructive chaos that Daquarius and Moia among a select few other Zamorakians understand him to be. Daquarius may have rallied the Kinshra to overthrow the White Knights, but the conflicting opinions would make them question whether they're supposed to be evil, listen to what Daquarius and Zamorak say, question if they want to keep doing it or even just go for the top (both of the latter two putting them at constant risk of treachery).

As for Saradomin, he would naturally get weaker but then we would have DOC2 a lot earlier. We would get a little bit more info on him, probably something that would slightly redeem him from the point of view of the playerbase like DAT did with Zamorak. He would get his power back (he has to, there's no way a tier 5 god would have that much influence on the world, tier 4 maybe but not tier 5 that's why Zamorak jumped back a tier), and Nomad would probably have not even been involved in a Saradomin quest except purely to sabotage him. Nomad was said to be an embodiment of Zamorakian philosophy, yet with the power he had it's likely that at the end of the day he would have betrayed Zamorak whatever else happened.
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10-May-2017 21:15:26

Questcaping
Dec Member 2016

Questcaping

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quick thoughts cos this interests me but am low on time

- Don't think Jagex woulda killed either in WE1. Too much risk to kill off another one of the most iconic gods so shortly after Guthix's death. ("but Bandos" -- undeniably a more minor god, in terms of notability in the game. sara, zammy, guthix were the original Big Three and it woulda been a terrible idea IMO to leave all but one of them dead within a year)
- Padomenes prob woulda pulled a Moia and got Sara outta there
- I reckon DAT woulda still happened honestly. Zammy probably woulda been trying to break the rules of Sliske's game anyway, because that's how he rolls. Would he have been T3 at that point thanks to the BoL? I doubt simply touching the Stone at that point woulda bumped him up to T2 though, that's kinda above and beyond and nigh-unattainable (took one hell of a lot for Guthix to get there). Just... a more powerful T3.
- How CoM would turn out interests me. A more confident Zammy, more of a match for Zaros... could make for something very interesting. Change the tone for sure. Will have to go through the transcript and see what coulda played out differently.

Mostly talking bout Zammy cos I find him more interesting. Sara woulda been pissed though. Sending his own heist team after the SoJ? Saradominist-Zamorakian conflict during DAT? Interesting angle, but probably too unnecessarily complicated for one quest, heh.
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10-May-2017 21:37:24 - Last edited on 10-May-2017 21:40:06 by Questcaping

Lego Miester
Nov Member 2018

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I imagine instead of the heist quest we'd have gotten another quest in Owen's questline and some humbling of our favorite egotistical snow imp.

Maybe Zamorak would have been able to hold his own against Zaros in Freneskae or stop him entirely? Perhaps using the siphon to empower both himself and the other mahjarrat and driving them behind his banner?

And Azzanadra dies defending Zaros, being disappointed in us one last time for letting this happen.
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11-May-2017 03:16:41 - Last edited on 11-May-2017 03:19:20 by Lego Miester

Rifleavenger

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Lego Miester said:
I imagine instead of the heist quest we'd have gotten another quest in Owen's questline and some humbling of our favorite egotistical snow imp.

Maybe Zamorak would have been able to hold his own against Zaros in Freneskae or stop him entirely? Perhaps using the siphon to empower both himself and the other mahjarrat and driving them behind his banner?

And Azzanadra dies defending Zaros, being disappointed in us one last time for letting this happen.
I agree with this idea on how things would have gone in regards to Saradomin.

As to the stuff with Zamorak, it would certainly be more impactful to the storyline for this to be true. However, even in a timeline where Zamorak wins BoL and Zaros is sabotaged by the player, Zammy is still T3 at best and Zaros is low T2 at worst. They're still an order of magnitude apart, I can't see Zaros being so overwhelmed that Azzanadra has to take a bullet. Maybe Azzanadra's blind loyalty would cause him to jump in the way of an attack despite it being unnecessary to save Zaros?

Unless Zamorak purposefully aims at Azzanadra to hurt Zaros (despite treating people as tools much of the time, Zaros does secretly seem to desire true admiration and Azzanadra has that for him in spades). I wonder if, ironically, a universe where Zamorak is better able to fight Zaros winds up giving him LESS of an impact on the Mahjarrat in CoM because Zamorak doesn't nearly give a heroic sacrifice in it?

11-May-2017 21:49:55 - Last edited on 11-May-2017 21:50:19 by Rifleavenger

Solanumtinkr
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I think Jagex would have added a few more Zamorakian natured beasties to Lumbridge if Zimzams had won. I think that would have been about all that would have changed on the Sara side and a generic quest thrown in instead of the Zimzam Heist. The purpose of adventure is to shine light into dark places,
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11-May-2017 22:57:26

Deltaslug

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From some of the background rumblings, it seemed that the devs thought players would have sided with Zammy over Sara, and thus it was highly likely they planned for Saradomin to be killed off (remember ... they did kill
Guthix and Cres
... so another death wouldn't have been too far out there).

But, regardless of a god death:
- Zamorak gets more empowered
- Saradominists take a huge psychological hit.
If Saradomin died, some might have shifted allegiance to Armadyl, others would have continued to follow Saradomin's philosophy.
Follow up quests/activities might have gone into talking about the different factions reacted to this.
Had Saradomin lived, he probably would have taken a stab at the Stone of Jas himself, or at least to get it before Zamorak did (again). This time, the Temple Knights, and possibly even Sir Owen, would have been involved. We might have also seen returns of the Eva Cashien and Kennith with updates to their stories. (thus a Saradomin version of Dishonor Among Thieves).
But I'm not sure how deep they would go since Saradomin does have quite a bit or in game story tied to him. Or they would have just gone "oops, Sara died, we can now do a little more Zammy story"


Invasion of Falador would have still occurred.
Could the Kinshra have won this time? Yes.
But keep in mind part of their goal wasn't just to conquer, but legitimacy.
They were searching for the Lost Sword.
That coupled with a strategic victory, and historical proof of the old king's support could have heavily swayed the populace away from the White Knights.


Nomad
Nomad's plans were already in the works by the time of DAT. So I doubt things would have changed too much.
He still would have had the Order of Ascension backing him. His God Construct would have also been functional.
But he wouldn't have been powered up, and I doubt Saradominists would have used him if they did a DAT variant.
He'd probably just be Nomad V1.1.
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12-May-2017 17:46:30

Mod Raven

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Interesting topic, here's my thoughts (you may find them interesting).

We wouldn't have killed Saradomin. We even went so far as to make the alternative cutscene, where he was rescued by Padomenes and whisked away to safety. We actually expected that one to be the most likely viewed cutscene, because we assumed players would choose chaos over order.

We were wrong of course.

The outcome of this would have made some drastic changes to the storyline.

* Dishonour amongst thieves would have been very very different. Zamorak would likely not have needed all the allies and he certainly wouldn't have brought along the less trustworthy ones (nomad) which would mean...
* Nomad's Elegy would have been different. Nomad would likely not be quite so negative towards the gods as he would have seen his god prevail. He would still have tried to go for the power, but it would likely have been different. Perhaps instead of the order of ascension, he'd be working with Zamorakian forces, or perhaps even Zamorak himself.
* Saradomin would have found some way to regain his power. There would likely have been some story about him seeking out an artifact or taking the power from a less deserving god.

All of these choices and decisions would likely have had a drastic change on Sliske's Endgame as well. Perhaps changing it entirely.

So it definitely was not a small irrelevant choice. ;)

Hope you find this interesting/useful.

= Raven =

16-May-2017 11:46:52

Elf of Seren
Nov Gold Premier Club Member 2012

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Mod Raven said:

...

We even went so far as to make the alternative cutscene, where he was rescued by Padomenes and whisked away to safety. We actually expected that one to be the most likely viewed cutscene,

...

= Raven =


Is the cutscene stored away somewhere, and would it be possible for someone to tweet it out?
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16-May-2017 12:11:09

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