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Lore behind the upcoming ores

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Naval Pupper
Jan Gold Premier Club Member 2019

Naval Pupper

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Yea, I figure if the mine is/was teleblocked, a Mahj placed the block -shrug-

Hopefully, they make it so that their in-game tiers don't necessarily line up with narrative strength - because a while back, as far as we knew, dragon metal was some of the strongest, toughest, hardest stuff out there; but now everything's being tossed up in the air. Not to say that the new metals shouldn't be stronger storywise, just not absurd strength differences like t90 vs t60 would lead you to believe.
Mods pls notice me

28-Jul-2017 18:38:25

Hguoh
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2014

Hguoh

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Apollo X said:
1. I don't believe Dragon equipment should be smithable.
2. I don't believe Aetherium ore should be added, as smithable T90 armor is outrageous.
3. I don't believe the tiers should DIRECTLY align with each other, seeing how we'd be skipping smithable Dragon and Aetherium.


1. Dragon equipment won't be smithable, Drakkurlith will be. Same ore, different alloy (think steel vs. iron).

2. T90 tank armor with no set effect that you need to invest just under 169 man hours of Smithing alone into in order to actually make a set of armor. Even just making vanilla t85 armor of the stuff requires 192 bars and 20minutes of purely smithing the bars to produce a single platebody (and that's just using the rough preliminary numbers for time that they note are nonsensical). Forgive me if I fail to see the issue.

3. Umm, they don't. Drakkurlith requires lvl 60 defense to wear, but the basic variant only gives t57 stats, with the fine variant (requiring eight times the bars) giving t60 stats. Necronium requires 70 defense to wear, with the basic version having t61 stats and the fine version (requiring 16 times the bars) giving t65 stats. Basic Invictum takes 80 defense to wear and gives only t71 stats whilst fine Invictum (16 times the bars as normal) gives t75 stats. And lastly, Aetherium takes lvl 90 defense to wear, with the basic giving only t80 stats and the fine (this time taking 32 times the bars) giving t85 stats.

And that's all for purely vanilla tank armor that has worse stats than it takes to wear it and gives no special Invention parts. The only case where the armor ever matches its tier is for the Masterwork Aetherium armor, and even then it is still just vanilla tank armor (lacking the damage boosts of power armor or special effects of raids gear.

29-Jul-2017 23:19:59

Hguoh
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2014

Hguoh

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Apollo X said:
This is old lore, and I don't like it as it's too disruptive to the core game. It's also not the same ore are we're supposedly getting: Necrite.

Necrite bears similarity to Barrows armor, leading you to a natural conclusion that it's the same ore.

What is the origin of Barrows armor? It was given to the brothers by Sliske from "distant lands."

Who do we know that sells Barrows-compatible equipment? Ak-Haranu, from the East.


First, the only change we are aware of so far is that Necrolith has become Necrite. The resulting metal retains the same name as it always has: Necronium.

Second, are we really willing to trust Sliske's claimed origin in an old lore and history? Especially since we didn't know he was a Mahjarrat when the story was originally written.

Third, I find it odd that you complain about the statement on Necronium as old lore while appealing to even older lore. It's true that said older lore is actually in game, but all you can really conclude is that the Eastern Lands has its own source of Necronium (which could very easily come from trade with main land Gielinor or from their own sites of ancient battles).

29-Jul-2017 23:33:46

Apollo X
Jan Member 2015

Apollo X

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Hguoh said:
Apollo X said:
This is old lore, and I don't like it as it's too disruptive to the core game. It's also not the same ore are we're supposedly getting: Necrite.

Necrite bears similarity to Barrows armor, leading you to a natural conclusion that it's the same ore.

What is the origin of Barrows armor? It was given to the brothers by Sliske from "distant lands."

Who do we know that sells Barrows-compatible equipment? Ak-Haranu, from the East.


First, the only change we are aware of so far is that Necrolith has become Necrite. The resulting metal retains the same name as it always has: Necronium.

Second, are we really willing to trust Sliske's claimed origin in an old lore and history? Especially since we didn't know he was a Mahjarrat when the story was originally written.

Third, I find it odd that you complain about the statement on Necronium as old lore while appealing to even older lore. It's true that said older lore is actually in game, but all you can really conclude is that the Eastern Lands has its own source of Necronium (which could very easily come from trade with main land Gielinor or from their own sites of ancient battles).


It's old PROPOSED lore, and it's sloppy because it just throws random new ore into the game without an explainer as to why it hasn't ALWAYS been there in one form or another.

Colors have been changed to align with Barrows armor, which already has lore... which is why I appealed to older lore, which by the way is already fixed and in-game to your point. I gave both passable backstories.

The age of lore doesn't matter if it's established. If it's just proposed for content that has never made it in-game, no, it doesn't matter.

30-Jul-2017 05:04:44

Apollo X
Jan Member 2015

Apollo X

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Hguoh said:
1. Dragon equipment won't be smithable, Drakkurlith will be. Same ore, different alloy (think steel vs. iron).


Splitting hairs, and a bad decision.

Hguoh said:
2. T90 tank armor with no set effect that you need to invest just under 169 man hours of Smithing alone into in order to actually make a set of armor. Even just making vanilla t85 armor of the stuff requires 192 bars and 20minutes of purely smithing the bars to produce a single platebody (and that's just using the rough preliminary numbers for time that they note are nonsensical). Forgive me if I fail to see the issue.

3. Umm, they don't. Drakkurlith requires lvl 60 defense to wear, but the basic variant only gives t57 stats, with the fine variant (requiring eight times the bars) giving t60 stats. Necronium requires 70 defense to wear, with the basic version having t61 stats and the fine version (requiring 16 times the bars) giving t65 stats. Basic Invictum takes 80 defense to wear and gives only t71 stats whilst fine Invictum (16 times the bars as normal) gives t75 stats. And lastly, Aetherium takes lvl 90 defense to wear, with the basic giving only t80 stats and the fine (this time taking 32 times the bars) giving t85 stats.

And that's all for purely vanilla tank armor that has worse stats than it takes to wear it and gives no special Invention parts. The only case where the armor ever matches its tier is for the Masterwork Aetherium armor, and even then it is still just vanilla tank armor (lacking the damage boosts of power armor or special effects of raids gear.


Last I checked, they scrapped the previous M&S rework and they've only just started working on the new one.

Masterwork Aetherium as you describe it sounds as though it's unlikely to ever be used, so why implement it?

30-Jul-2017 05:09:36

Hguoh
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2014

Hguoh

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Apollo X said:
It's old PROPOSED lore, and it's sloppy because it just throws random new ore into the game without an explainer as to why it hasn't ALWAYS been there in one form or another.


Not like they haven't done that before. Shattered Worlds is the latest example of this, but updates like that have occurred all throughout RS's history.

According to Lore, Summoning existed all the way back to when Lord Amlodd retreated from the world at the very least and yet the skill and all things associated with it (including the obelisks on the overworld) didn't show up until 2008.

Morytania existed for half of a year until the Slayer Tower suddenly appeared, and the Tower existed for years until it suddenly gained a basement it never had before.

As much as you and I might like it, explaining why something hasn't always been there is not a necessary part of an update. In the case of something like this, all Jagex has to do is explain why the common folk haven't been able to use these metals or access these ore (which can be as simple as just placing the ores in canonically difficult to reach areas like finding necrite ore in a branch of the Lava Maze or in a recently opened area underneath the ruins of Uzer or having Invictum deposits in a recently excavated section of the Digsite).

Apollo X said:
Colors have been changed to align with Barrows armor, which already has lore... which is why I appealed to older lore, which by the way is already fixed and in-game to your point. I gave both passable backstories.


Lore based on what Sliske, a known liar, told the Barrows Brothers and Ak-Haranu's bolt racks (which could just as easily mean that Sliske got the idea for a repeating crossbow from the Eastern Lands or that the Eastern Lands have their own deposits of the ore).

30-Jul-2017 17:51:10

Hguoh
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2014

Hguoh

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Apollo X said:
Splitting hairs, and a bad decision.


Not really, we have already have separate smithing level and resource requirements for iron and steel, so the principle already exists. And, as I've already pointed out, the Drakkurlith gear we produce is strictly worse than the corresponding Dragon gear unless you put a lot more time and materials into refining it, emphasizing that whatever the Dragonkin did to the ore added special properties to it (which would explain why we need to melt down and use so much Dragon metal in order to make Masterwork gear.

Edit: I'd also like to point out that the current plan for the rework also sets up a similar relationship between Necronium and Barrows as well as Invictum and Torva. In the process of making Masterwork, one has to melt down Barrows armor for 'Barrows Bars' that are distinctly separate from Necronium Bars. Similarly making Energized gear requires breaking Torva gear down into 'Praesulic Essences' which is clearly different from 'Invictum Bars.' The implication is that either the metal was processed differently to make the PvM armor or that the metal had been altered over time by its environment. Same ores, different metals.

Apollo X said:
Last I checked, they scrapped the previous M&S rework and they've only just started working on the new one.


Yes, and then they released a bunch of design documents that detailed their new ideas, which is what I've been referencing.

Apollo X said:
Masterwork Aetherium as you describe it sounds as though it's unlikely to ever be used, so why implement it?


Because it's not the final product. Masterwork Aetherium can then be upgraded into Energized gear which is t92 melee power armor by combining it with ingredients you get from breaking down Torva gear, Drygores, and Malevolent gear (all stuff PvM produces).

30-Jul-2017 18:06:52 - Last edited on 30-Jul-2017 23:21:58 by Hguoh

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