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what tier Zamorak now?

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Raleirosen

Raleirosen

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Hazeel said:
Well she's weaker in TLW, so what's that leave us with? T3? T4? T5? I'd assume T4, but that really is just a guess on my part I'll admit. Then we have Mah draining them, and it's pretty damn fast since it took brought the Mahjarrat down to needing the ritual again in a matter of hours.

Low tier 5 is a guess, but considering that she's just made up of a few stray crystal fragments and has been horribly drained with no recovery, I can't see her being that powerful at this point.

How do you reconcile that extreme guess (T2 to T5, seriously?) with the scene at the end of CoM? If she was that weak, would she really be able to threaten almost a dozen ultra-charged Mahjarrat?

And yes, it can be reasonably inferred that the Mahjarrat were threatened, judging by Zaros' intervention. If Seren's screams (and/or the intentions behind them) were innocuous, his comment becomes a total non sequitur.
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24-Nov-2016 06:55:04 - Last edited on 24-Nov-2016 06:59:24 by Raleirosen

Hazeel

Hazeel

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Raleirosen said:
How do you reconcile that extreme guess (T2 to T5, seriously?) with the scene at the end of CoM? If she was that weak, would she really be able to threaten almost a dozen ultra-charged Mahjarrat?

And yes, it can be reasonably inferred that the Mahjarrat were threatened, judging by Zaros' intervention. If Seren's screams (and/or the intentions behind them) were innocuous, his comment becomes a total non sequitur.


While we are getting closer, this isn't DBZ just yet. Tiers aren't fully measurable to the characters. As far as they all know, they could be equal or close to equal in power. They are guessing, just as I am. Seren was made up with so few crystals...less than 10% of what she original had. Honestly, I'd be surprised if she was still Tier 3 after that. And then she has the extra drain on top of that.

The Mahjarrat really didnt't seem threatened though. There was no "STOP!", no recoil, nothing. And it's not because they're too proud to show it. They were more than willing to display fear when Zamorak and Zaros came around.

But, again, this is all just guesswork and I'll admit it. Maybe the rest of you interpret as less of a power drain, but to me it really seems like she'd be incredibly weak to begin with due to how little crystals were used to bring her back.
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24-Nov-2016 07:53:41 - Last edited on 24-Nov-2016 07:54:02 by Hazeel

Prime Axiom
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Prime Axiom

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Hazeel said:

Or he was lying, like usual, or ready to give a false demonstration to earn their trust.

Which is it? Was Zaros trying to kill Khazard or empower him? These are polar opposite actions. Seems like to me you just want to paint Zaros in the worst possible light regardless of the context.
Hazeel said:

How would someone as informed as Zaros not know that? And, really, why not use one of his own followers? Of COURSE Zamorak was going to object to Zaros using one of his Mahjarrat as a demonstration, son or not.

Not know Khazard was Zamorak's son? Khazard himself didn't even know. It's likely that none of the Zarosian Mahjarrat knew of Khazard's true identity, and probably only few Zamorakian knew. Also, Khazard was born towards the end of the god wars, which would be after Zaros was gone from Gielinor. Nobody blames Zamorak for wanting to defend Khazard. This doesn't prove Zaros was trying to kill Khazard.
Hazeel said:

But he didn't, only because he didn't want Zamorak powering them up and becoming a marytr, otherwise he would have. And of course he didn't just up and kill the Mahjarrat, that's a waste of power.

He didn't want Zamorak to become a martyr. Powering up the Mahjarrat was inconsequential to him. He could still slay them if he could slay Zamorak.
Hazeel said:

What the hell are you talking about? You're starting to sound as insane as Edcy.

Zaros' exact quote to Seren screaming is "Seren, stop, please. Sister, you would destroy them all". Pretty clear cut to me.
Hazeel said:

Bull. If that were the case, he could have easily made the condition "I fulfill my end and we promise to never fight or harm each other again."

He could have made the condition that way, but why would he? Having Zamorak work for him is better.

24-Nov-2016 09:23:32 - Last edited on 24-Nov-2016 09:41:17 by Prime Axiom

Prime Axiom
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Prime Axiom

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Also, whether or not Seren can actually destroy them all by just screaming is largely irrelevant.
What is not being contested is the fact that Seren can destroy them all. Zaros is on the same power tier as her, and already defeated Zamorak in a matter of seconds. Unless one of the Mahjarrat is hiding an elder artefact under their robes, they wouldn't fair better than Zamorak. Not to mention half the Mahjarrat are siding with Zaros to begin with (Kharsai counts, because the Zamorakians would sacrifice him).

24-Nov-2016 09:46:48

Deltaslug

Deltaslug

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Zaros' Plan:
- Stop the drain of power from Mah's ritual (saving his own life)
- Drain Mah's power instead to gather more power for himself
- Save his own Mahjarrat followers (at least)
- If the player gave him the Light Simulcron (note: this is PURELY speculation) use the ritual as a means to stop losing power

The problem with Zaros' plan was that even he realized that he couldn't do it alone.
The more performing the ritual, the better it's chances of working.

Zamorak's Entry: what it did
- Zamorak was aware of the power drain
- Due to his distrust of Zaros, his expectations were that either Zaros would drain the Mahjarrat himself or use them to revitalize Mah

Simply put, Zamorak didn't know what Zaros was planning.
Zaros did have a long and nasty history of empty promises.
Then you go thousands of years without seeing each other (even assuming Zaros was dead).
Of course he's going to have trust issues. And rightfully so with Zaros' history.



Now as for Zamorak, I wouldn't be surprised if he was on par with Saradomin now.
- he lost power after WE1
- he got it back after Dishonor Among Thieves
- During his "duel" with Zaros, he burns up power and sacrifices more to empower the other Mahjarrat
- He uses the Ritual off Mah to get power back

Yes, after his fight, he lost his wings (a sign of a drop in power). But since he had transformed, his second empowering from Mah didn't carry over to making newer/better wings.

But as all the Mahjarrat clearly got back all the power they'd loss, and more, there's no reason to think that Zaros and Zamorak scaled that up.

The thing is, Mah was running on fumes, she only had so much power left to give.

24-Nov-2016 17:09:21

Raleirosen

Raleirosen

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Hazeel said:
While we are getting closer, this isn't DBZ just yet. Tiers aren't fully measurable to the characters. As far as they all know, they could be equal or close to equal in power. They are guessing, just as I am. Seren was made up with so few crystals...less than 10% of what she original had. Honestly, I'd be surprised if she was still Tier 3 after that. And then she has the extra drain on top of that.
I agree that the characters don't have perfect information about power levels/tiers, but since when does Seren's power have anything to do with the sheer number of crystals she has lying around?

As far as I know there hasn't even been a hint that Seren was resurrected at anything less than full strength. And I think if she dropped a full tier from 2 to 3, we'd have heard something about that in much more concrete terms.
Hazeel said:
The Mahjarrat really didnt't seem threatened though. There was no "STOP!", no recoil, nothing. And it's not because they're too proud to show it. They were more than willing to display fear when Zamorak and Zaros came around.
Yeah, I remember doing a double-take during the scene because the Mahjarrat were just standing there. I guess the most accurate interpretation would be that while Seren was screaming, Zaros sensed her desire to lash out at the Mahjarrat and tried to preemptively dissuade her. Whether or not she'd be able to destroy them is a little more up in the air, I guess.
Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

25-Nov-2016 01:33:40 - Last edited on 25-Nov-2016 01:42:14 by Raleirosen

Barnabix
Dec Member 2012

Barnabix

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Well I mean; if Zaros can come back as Tier 2 after "dying" AND being given the Light Simulacrum; I don't see why Seren wouldn't be Tier 2 as well.

Plus even she says that her and Zaros are made of "Hardier stuff" than the other Gods. Even Guthix could have escaped the same way Zaros did, but he would rather have faced his fate than to abuse his power.

Plus I don't think Zamorak lost any power? He gave some up, got some back. The wings burning up were just from Zaros trying to destroy him. Plus I think it was a way to move Zamorak from being more tied to Demons and their kin, rather than the Mahjarrat which he did everything for.
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25-Nov-2016 02:11:21

Why So Fishy
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Why So Fishy

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Zamorak is likely T4 in my opinion now. Honestly, I don't think he wants to be a God anymore and at the end of the Sixth Age/Sliske's Endgame, I can see him dying and his followers converting to Zarosians under his command. He just wanted to protect the Mahjarrat and now that the Mahjarrat are so strong, he will likely not care for Godhood anymore. The Mahjarrat seem to regard Zaros in general as much stronger now, and they see Zamorak as the leader of their kind. His loss of wings shows his transition back to Mahjarrat status in my opinion.
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25-Nov-2016 03:54:48 - Last edited on 25-Nov-2016 03:55:03 by Why So Fishy

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