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Tumeken alive or dead?

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Padomenes
Apr Member 2015

Padomenes

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Would Tumeken be alive or dead?

At the end of Phite Club we see a scene that confirms he did indeed survive his explosion and infused himself into the Kharib-Ib blue gem, and tries to convince Amascut to stop but she doesn't. Then eventually we see the gem being drained somehow.


It would be stupid for them to kill off another major god this early.
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, Democratic Socialist irl

25-Jun-2017 15:25:58

Swolllliosis

Swolllliosis

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My headcanon theory is that when he died, he found a way, using what he knew about the soul to split it into 5 aspects. See here.

Amascut obviously wants to devour her father and wipe him from existence. However, she must corrupt and consume all the parts if his soul first.

We just need a way to restore all his parts, stop Amascut, and find enough divine energy to restore his body.

I also would like to point out that Tumeken's bau, the part of his soul that represent the aspect of his major personalities, aka the four demigods of the deserts, were brought to life AFTER he self-destructed. In the lore story 'Tumeken's Dream', Tumeken wandered the desert, indeed, but it was his mind and divine essence that wandered the desert in a fragmented stated, His comatose mind coalesced animals into divine beings.

Furthermore, I don't think it's a great idea to take anything Senliten says in completely. Her mind is has been inconsistent with her events.

Again this is all headcanon though
Owner of the first 6th age church of Tumeken
| Twitter: @RSTemekel

25-Jun-2017 21:05:07 - Last edited on 27-Jun-2017 18:53:34 by Swolllliosis

Hguoh
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2014

Hguoh

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Swolllliosis said:
I also would like to point out that Tumeken's bau, the part of his soul that represent the aspect of his major personalities, aka the four demigods of the deserts, were brought to life AFTER he self-destructed. In the lore story 'Tumeken's Dream', Tumeken wandered the desert, indeed, but it was his mind and divine essence that wandered the desert in a fragmented stated, His comatose mind coalesced animals into divine beings.

Furthermore, whatever you do, don't take anything Senliten says literally. Her mind is still awry. She claims that certain events happen when she was around. I think she is projecting a false memory, a side effect of her resurrection, as some of the stuff she says doesn't fit with the game's timeline. She is missing bits of her mind, like Seren if you did not fully restore her.


Even if you don't take Senliten at her word, the statues in her mastaba indicate that the minor desert gods already existed during the 2nd age since it was built during Senliten's life.

Instead of trying to retcon lore to suit your theory (especially since 2 of the latest 3 desert quests double down on Senliten knowing about the minor desert gods), adjust the theory to suit the lore. In this case, I'd say theorize that the minor desert gods are like Haluned and Eluned: aspects used by a god that acted independently of the main body for a given purpose during said god's life and then reformed and gained autonomy and their own personalty after the god's 'death.'

26-Jun-2017 11:23:28

Swolllliosis

Swolllliosis

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Hguoh said:
Swolllliosis said:
I also would like to point out that Tumeken's bau, the part of his soul that represent the aspect of his major personalities, aka the four demigods of the deserts, were brought to life AFTER he self-destructed.


Even if you don't take Senliten at her word, the statues in her mastaba indicate that the minor desert gods already existed during the 2nd age since it was built during Senliten's life.

Instead of trying to retcon lore to suit your theory (especially since 2 of the latest 3 desert quests double down on Senliten knowing about the minor desert gods), adjust the theory to suit the lore.


The Mastaba was made by Senliten's son, Osmumten, who was Pharaoh at the time Tumeken exploded. Senliten was dead at the time also, and her remains were later moved to the mastaba once it was completed. It's completely possible the statues of the lesser deities were added after the Aspects started showing up in the desert, which may have been after Tumeken exploded.

Furthermore, Senliten never directly said the aspects were alive in her time. She encountered wild monkeys and crocodiles, yes, and she learned valuable life lessons from them. However, she has very keenly avoided saying the Aspects were alive at least three times now.

Out of everything, however, the most damning piece of evidence there is is that Het and Amascut specifically saying that the Aspects were Tumeken's bau, which is defined as segments of his soul that defined his personality, i.e., his modesty, his mischievousness, his drive for wisdom, his mental health. If he were to cut these parts out of him, he would lose these parts of his personality. Why exactly would he purposely rip these innocent parts of his identity out of him? I think he must have been dying or in a desperate situation to think of something like that, such as Seren when she poured all her evilness into a Haluned and blew up.
Owner of the first 6th age church of Tumeken
| Twitter: @RSTemekel

27-Jun-2017 00:43:03 - Last edited on 27-Jun-2017 00:47:20 by Swolllliosis

Swolllliosis

Swolllliosis

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Think about it. Seren could have drove all her evil parts into Haluned any time she wanted and be completely "good," whatever that means. However, she chose not to because she knew it was a necessity that everyone had an "evil" part of them. It gives you the ambition to experiment, to take risks, and try new things. She even thanks you if you restored her dark crystal in the end of TLW. In Sliske's Endgame, Seren would have never tried to overrode Zaros' pact if you never restored the Dark Crystal, for she was too timid. The only reason why she chose to finally drive all her dark thoughts into Haluned in the end was because she was thinking irrational, having being under a stressful amounts of emotions driving through her. She was just dumped by Guthix (a heartbreak) and told to leave immediately. She had little time to act, so she made the best decision for the safety of the elves she could think of at the moment. It was a bad decision, she admits, but realizes after TLW that we should embrace ourselves, rather than suppress things.

The same thing could have happened with Tumeken. He was cornered with a heavy decision and imbued random animals that closely resembled bits of his personalities and made them to represent his "ba."
Owner of the first 6th age church of Tumeken
| Twitter: @RSTemekel

27-Jun-2017 01:04:13 - Last edited on 27-Jun-2017 01:20:16 by Swolllliosis

Hguoh
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2014

Hguoh

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Swolllliosis said:
The Mastaba was made by Senliten's son, Osmumten, who was Pharaoh at the time Tumeken exploded. Senliten was dead at the time also, and her remains were later moved to the mastaba once it was completed. It's completely possible the statues of the lesser deities were added after the Aspects started showing up in the desert, which may have been after Tumeken exploded.


Yeah, no. From Senliten's dialogue:

Player: So this is the first pyramid? Do you know that they are quite common now?

Senliten: That is gratifying, imitation is flattery indeed. It is disappointing, however, that
my
creation of such a thing is blurred by these later copies.

So much for her not making it.

Swolllliosis said:
Furthermore, Senliten never directly said the aspects were alive in her time. She encountered wild monkeys and crocodiles, yes, and she learned valuable life lessons from them. However, she has very keenly avoided saying the Aspects were alive at least three times now.


From Do No Evil:

Senliten: The
Scabarites
of my day were mainly scholars and intellectuals – the sky, retiring types.

Odd that there'd be Scabarites in her day without their patron god from whom they got their name, Scabaras.

From Senliten's dialogue:

Player: I think that, like Amascut, Scabaras has changed since you last were able to communicate with the world.

Senliten:
I sense things are not as they were
, that there is dissent where there once was cooperation. The ways of the greater powers are mysterious, yet this is something that worries me greatly. Perhaps the situation is able to be altered by you mortals, we will see in time.

Notice anything? She makes no attempt to correct the assumption that Scabaras was around when Senliten was alive. Heck, she affirms it by agreeing that things have changed.

27-Jun-2017 01:58:12 - Last edited on 27-Jun-2017 02:03:48 by Hguoh

Hguoh
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2014

Hguoh

Posts: 7,428Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Swolllliosis said:
Out of everything, however, the most damning piece of evidence there is is that Het and Amascut specifically saying that the Aspects were Tumeken's bau, which is defined as segments of his soul that defined his personality, i.e., his modesty, his mischievousness, his drive for wisdom, his mental health. If he were to cut these parts out of him, he would lose these parts of his personality. Why exactly would he purposely rip these innocent parts of his identity out of him?


I think I'll just cite Tumeken's dream now:

"You are, indeed, the strongest of men. I shall give unto you a piece of myself,
so that you may help me rule this desert realm, an example to my people to take care of their own physical well-being
, so that they too can be blessed by Tumeken." And so, the lesser god Het was born

"You are, indeed, the most sociable of creatures, bringing joy and happiness to all around. I shall give unto you a piece of myself,
so that you may help me rule this desert realm, an example to my people to take pleasure in the joys of society
, so that they too can be blessed by Tumeken." And so, the lesser god Apmeken was born

"You are, indeed, the most resourceful of creatures, taking pleasure in hunting for no more than your own sustenance. I shall give unto you a piece of myself,
so that you may help me rule this desert realm, an example to my people not to overindulge in their physical pleasures
, so that they too can be blessed by Tumeken." And so, the lesser god Crondis was born

"You are, indeed, the most unusual being, digging your tunnels in isolation, avoiding contact even with me, your god. I shall give unto you a piece of myself,
so that you may help me rule this desert realm, an example to my people of what can become of them, should they stray too far into solitude."
And so, the lesser god Scabaras was forcibly born

27-Jun-2017 02:02:00

Hguoh
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2014

Hguoh

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So to answer your question, he'd separate those portions of his soul from himself so that he could better rule the people of his realm and teach them by example.

Plus, he'd only lose those aspects of himself if he actually imbued the minor gods with those parts of his soul like Seren did when she put the dark aspects of herself in Haluned. Keep in mind, however, that Seren was able to operate through Haluned and Eluned since she arrived on Gielinor in the 1st age up until the point Guthix asked her to leave at the end of the 3rd age without any such noted impact on her personality/soul.

Post explosion, some chunks of Tumeken could theoretically then form themselves into the aspects Tumeken created before (much like how a fragment of Seren sang itself into the image of Eluned), manifesting themselves as the minor desert gods.

And Voila! The minor gods can be parts of Tumeken's soul and exist prior to his explosion, while the parallels to Seren, Eluned, and Haluned feed the theory that Tumeken is a child of Mah.

For bonus points, the parallel to Seren also presents the opportunity to reform Tumeken without sacrificing the lesser gods even if they are chunks of his soul.

27-Jun-2017 02:03:21 - Last edited on 27-Jun-2017 02:17:05 by Hguoh

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