Sliske's Master? (KS spoilers)
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Also, i think that maybe the yellowish dialogue that we see is the 6th unborn elder god. It is a well known theory that the elder god is the one, 'not of form' and i believe Sliske knows this and serves it to gain his own power.
I've been sticking with this theory for quite some time, and Xau-Tak would be the alternative. It sounds like the final summit is what the mysterious voice wants, and the voice said something like the Stone of Jas wants a user, false or not, so the voice must want someone to win.
Now give me a quest that actually requires Temple of Ikov so I can get some satisfaction on what to do about the Staff of Armadyl.
If you guys want some actual candidates to speculate over, I suggest Zaros, Jas, or the Sixth elder god.
My money's on Zaros or the Sixth Elder God personally.
I'd go with Jas or the Sixth Elder God. The text was in gold, which really doesn't seem to suit Zaros. Yes, he has gold on his outfit, but I feel we should take that as a reason.
If you guys want some actual candidates to speculate over, I suggest Zaros, Jas, or the Sixth elder god.
My money's on Zaros or the Sixth Elder God personally.
I always assumed that the 6th Elder God was still inside the egg, or her spirit anyway, she MUST be controlling him, we are also a Stonetoucher, maybe she does not like her power stolen?
This is what I thought as well, but Sliske looks back, which to me makes it seem like there was another person there outside of the Stone, as if what we were seeing was through that person's eyes.
Looking back, I think Sliske talking to the Stone of Jas itself makes the most sense. Him serving an actual entity (besides Zaros) really does not fit his character, especially since he was still working for Zaros until Fate of the Gods. Also, the voice's text is orange, which is Jas's colour.
Then my own theory can still hold up! It may be confirmation bias, but I feel this quest helped to support my theory that the Stone of Jas holds the Sixth Elder God and/or some form of Jas, so it needs Sliske to bring all the gods to the summit, where the winner will become the new vessel of whatever is in the Stone.
The thing to me is, it seems that the voice doesn't even care about the Stone of Jas. At all. It asks "This will bring them?" What this voice wants is the Big Game. It could care less about the prize itself, just as long as the gods are together. The voice thinks nothing of the Stone beyond a means to an end, or as bait. Not only is Zaros too intelligent to ask if the Stone would bring them, he also wants the Stone for himself. The voice seems to care too little about the Stone for this to be Zaros.
Who we're looking for is someone who would be familiar with the Staff of Armadyl, but doesn't care about the Stone of Jas. Kara-Meir is certainly someone who would be interested in the gods gathering together, but not someone who I'd expect to be familiar with the Staff of Armadyl. It's also heavily implied that she does care about the Stone of Jas, and I can't see Sliske working for her.
And Sliske had to beat up Strisath to get it. Yes, Sithaph has absent, but if Strisath was the one with the Staff, why didn't Sithaph just give the Staff to Sliske? Sithaph and Strisath are supposed to be on the same sides, so the master would only be Sithaph if he defected from the Necrosy*tes.
I think this exchange from Fate of the Gods is what we need.
Player: "So Zaros did order you to kill Guthix?"
Sliske: "That was more my... interpretation. Zaros wanted to return, but I saw futility in bargaining with Guthix. I suspect Zaros knew that, but he's not exactly forthcoming."
We've noticed that the mysterious voice is very direct and to the point. Sliske was drifting away from Zaros because Zaros plays all his cards close to his chest. That may be how Sliske likes to play it, but it's not exactly what he'd like in a master. So the master really can't be Zaros, as the main reason Sliske would like working for this master is because they're open about what they want in a way Zaros rarely was.
I think there IS a set order in which the 6th Age quests take place, just the approach to skew more lenient with quest requirements these days makes that order more vague. I would assume that, canonically, Zaros' return is set well before the Sliske endgame series, but it has little enough narrative impact that it doesn't matter gameplay wise.
Raven said that Nomad's Elegy and Kindred Spirits could be played in either order, and I think that could work from a narrative perspective, so I'd be willing to believe that Fate of the Gods and Kindred Spirits could also go in either order.
The issue is that Fate of the Gods has to be before Nomad's Elegy, since Fate of the Gods is set before The Mighty Fall. So the timeline could potentially go Kindred Spirits -> Fate of the Gods -> The Mighty Fall -> Nomad's Elegy. And you could probably fit Dishonour Among Thieves anywhere before Nomad's Elegy.
I'll bet you it's Zaros. Could be some funky Elder God offspring thing inside the Stone, but then Sliske would not have turned *away* from the Stone when speaking to it, and it's been confirmed not to be a new character, nor Xau-Tak. That said, Zaros would not have been present either...
Could be a Dragonkin; Sliske helps them by gathering a bunch of False Users for them to unleash their wrath upon, AND he helps Zaros by distracting the gods from his return AND assembling the Dragonkin so he can deal with them. So yeah, the mysterious voice could be a Dragonkin or Zaros, if you ask me, but Sliske plans benefit only Zaros (and himself) in the end.
PS. Recall that the Stone of Jas possesses some degree of sentience. Which is unsettling.
Zaros would have had no other way to communicate with Sliske before Fate of the Gods outside of the communion portal at Senntisten, and that vision looks like it was in the vault from Dishonour Among Thieves. It's impossible for that to have been Zaros.
As for the Dragonkin, it had to have at least been one who isn't a Necrosy*te. Is anyone satisfied with Sliske's explanation on how he got the Staff of Armadyl?
Sliske: "Why do you think I trapped this dragonkin specifically? I could have taken my pick. They're all the same, really. Strisath was unlucky enough to be guarding the staff. He couldn't have left it unattended now, could he?"
Strisath just… wanders into the Shadow Realm with the Staff of Armadyl? No, I think someone - probably the mysterious voice or - sent Strisath after Sliske.
I don't necessarily agree that Sliske's master is a Dragonkin, although it would segue perfectly into how I think the next Sixth Age pillar Jagex focuses on should be about the Dragonkin. The most I'll say right now is that there is absolutely a connection between the voice and the Dragonkin, and the Staff of Armadyl is related to that. So who would be familiar with the Staff and the Dragonkin, but not see the Stone of Jas as anything more than bait?
Here's what I gather happened. The mysterious voice needed Sliske to orchestrate a gathering of the gods. Sliske decides the Stone of Jas would be the perfect bait. The mysterious voice, for some reason, seems to be more familiar with the Staff than the Stone, but understands the connection between the two. So the voice needs to get the Staff to Sliske in order to find the Stone. Somehow, the voice knows Strisath has the Staff of Armadyl, and sends Strisath after Sliske. Sliske traps Strisath and gets the Staff, and that brings us to Missing, Presumed Death.
You forgot that Sliske had the staff in TWW.
...I do hope his master isn't a ****** plot twist.
Right, so I'll change it to "Sliske traps Strisath and gets the Staff, and that brings us to The World Wakes." The rest of what I said before that still holds up, and based on what Sliske said in MPD, Strisath would have been captured before TWW.
Something about the way this competition has gone might reflect on the master. Their familiarity with the Staff strongly leads me to someone with a connection to Armadyl. I'm jokingly entertained the idea of Ikov, so I'm just going to throw his name out there, though I doubt there's any merit to it being him.
Hmm… still not sure who this could be. Not quite convinced it's the Sixth…
There's been no mention of our new fire overlady I've seen, the Queen of Ashes. Problem is we've had almost no lore on her aside from V's offhand mention. She seems cold and calculating, since she's evil and all, but I doubt Sliske would work with her. It is possible, though.
I personally doubt the interference of an Elder God very much, they just seem so far above us that they wouldn't bother with the squabbles of mortals and gods. However, an incorporeal one trying to get back is possible. I'm sure it's not Jas, though.
When V first mentioned Xau-Tak and the Queen of Ashes, I was far more interested in the Queen of Ashes, so I've admittedly been kind of indifferent to ***-Tak.
While I was most hopeful for Jas to be pulling the strings, that whole cutscene destroyed my theory, so the only chance of it being an Elder God to me would be if it were the Sixth.
30-May-2016 15:05:34 - Last edited on 30-May-2016 15:05:53 by Kemtros
So I'd say that everyone Sliske insults here is ruled out as his master. If you still insist it could somehow be Zaros, I'm not sure how else to say that it won't be him, and an Elder God would have even more of an ego, unless the Sixth is acceptable for whatever reason, though it does suit my Vessel theory best. The only reason I could see him working with the Dragonkin is if it was a Dactyl. While it's been pointed out that the Dragonkin wouldn't risk strengthening the curse, I could see a Dactyl consider all possibilities, but never a Necrosy*tes, so this supports the theory that it's Kerapac. Maybe Sliske turned Strisath over to Kerapac right after MPD? Despite thinking that the voice is uninterested in the Stone, I could also see it being that the mysterious voice - assuming it's Kerapac, or at least a Dactyl - is proud of their ability to resist the curse, so they're not afraid of it being used.
The only communication Zaros had with his followers pre-Fot* was via the portal at Senntisten. The cutscene was very clearly not happening in the restored Senntisten Temple. Zaros and Sliske literally couldn't have been talking to each other in that scene if it happens before Fot*.
I already tried to point this out, and it didn't work.
Sorry to be arrogant, but why is it so hard to make it clear that the mysterious voice is not Zaros?
I have wondered that too. The tone of the mysterious voice seems to be too rude and hasty for Zaros. And I think the meeting between Sliske and his master, or one who asks Sliske a favour, happens after Fate of the Gods and before Dishonour among Thieves. Sliske is serving someone else, other than Zaros, and the background in the cutscene is the same as in the latter quest.
So, I think we can safely place Zaros out of the possible candidates. To me and many others Zaros doesn't fit as the owner of the mysterious voice.
Not sure about that timeline, but I could see it working, and it also raises even more reasons why it couldn't be Zaros. This isn't meant to be correcting you, I'm just expanding. At the end of Fate of the Gods, Zaros tells Char to discover the location of the Stone and the Staff. If the meeting was after Fate of the Gods, then Zaros himself would be aware of where Stone is, so Char's missions would be pointless.
It just* it really makes no sense for it to be Zaros. At all. It's impossible.
I agree that Zaros was doing whatever he could to impress us, but as pointed out, the mysterious voice sees the Stone of Jas primarily as bait. The voice actively wants the gods gathered for a reason, while Zaros would only want that as a distraction. Their personalities might be close, but their goals are completely distant.
I could be wrong, it may not be zaros.
But I think people are being bias, wanting this person to be a random new character.
We know its not Xau-Takulala, and pulling out random dragonkin and 6th elder god theories is ridiculous.
Until there is something more solid, it makes far more sense to believe it is zaros, and whatever doesn't seem to make sense right now could be explained later.
And Kemtros, wanting all the gods to show up and distraction by the stone of jas can very much be the same god.
I agree that one person could both want the gods gathered and distracted, but that wouldn't be Zaros. His plan hinges on the gods being distracted so they won't notice him taking the Stone. Gathering the gods together with the Stone as bait would risking drawing attention directly to his plans.
It would just be a huge mistake on Zaros's part. Even if we don't know much to point towards the Dragonkin or the Sixth, I'll take nothing over how what we do know about Zaros suggesting that it's most likely to not be him. If it is Zaros, then Fate of the Gods 2 would be the best chance to provide further hints towards that, but until then, I can't believe it's him.
I see it differently.
Note how the Zaro's component gives "Impatience" as a perk?
And the line where the voice says "Beauty is irrelevant" could have actually meant "Beauty is irrelevant to this conversation"
Zamorak' components also give the "Impatience" perk, suggesting that it's not inherently tied to Zaros specifically.
The mysterious voice says "Beauty is meaningless", and then "This conversation is irrelevant." So it's not that beauty is lacking in relevance to the conversation, it's the conversation itself is irrelevant. The mysterious voice is completely disregarding the concept of beauty altogether, which is a far grander statement than simply whether or not it's relevant.
It's been pointed out that a lot of what Zaros says might just be him putting on an act for us, but we have his memoriam crystals, which should clearly indicate his honest thoughts. "Though I am unique, there was one other created at the same time as I. The light to my darkness. I find it beautiful, and the attraction is mutual. Whereas I am analytical, my companion is empathetic. We are opposites, but we are also the same. I know not our creator's purpose, but it is good to not be alone."
While Zaros is a logical being, he does seem to understand why someone would find meaning in beauty. While he did realize that Mah's idea of love was false, I don't think it would push Zaros to deciding "Beauty is meaningless."
………Hmm. What if Armadyl's second artefact was the Schism? And somehow the mysterious voice is a second soul implanted into Armadyl? It's not something I'm really hoping for, but at least it's a possibility.
So maybe Armadyl is RuneScape's version of Firestorm (from the comics)?
Hmm… possibly? Though far more malevolent, which would be Deathstorm. It would at least explain their familiarity with the Staff, and have someone with a split personality, instead of Sliske.
Sliske's split personality doesn't make a lot of sense to me, how did Eksils learn about the staff but Sliske didn't?
This is exactly why Sliske having a split personality makes as little sense as the mysterious voice being Zaros.
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If we're going for split personality, I'd like to propose some sort of Dark Lord but for Guthix.
Edit: actually, he wouldn't know how The Siphon works either.
Guthix's memories suggest that he was at least familiar with the staff, though he'd probably refer to the Staff as the Siphon. He told us that the Enchanted Key is called the Amserdrwys, so I would see him calling the artefacts by their proper names.
My main reservation on the voice being connected to Armadyl is when exactly Jagex decided on Sliske's master. Was it like they retroactively decided somewhere between Fate of the Gods and this quest who the master would be because Armadyl won The Bird and the Beast? Otherwise, it makes the choices for the summit too… narrow.
I mean, Armadyl and Vorago are going to be involved no matter what, but we had to choose between Icthlarin and Death. Despite Icthlarin's role, we can effectively say that Death is more important. If the voice is Amascut, it would either have to account for us giving Death a score while denying Icthlarin one, or worst-case scenario, completely ignore that there is effectively a binary between Icthlarin and Death now.
A safer option would probably be to just look at how the voice wants a gathering. Is there any reason to believe it's interested in any one of the contestants above all others? Maybe Armadyl, but only because of the Staff. For all we know, it could just see Armadyl as the Staff's "False User" the same way the Dragonkin would view Saradomin or Zamorak.
- I doubt it's connected to the strange glowing orb. They seem like two completely different stories.
- I could see it being the Queen of Ashes. I'd very much love that, since I'm more fascinated by her than Xau-Tak. It would also add onto why Hero's Welcome was almost a requirement.
- The Sixth Elder God is my favorite possibility, since my personal theory is that whoever wins the Big Game will become the vessel to an Elder God.
- Hostilius seems… odd. Can't really disprove it, but not exactly one I'm going to consider.
You missed one. He called Char to him mentally in the second age to investigate Seren.
Which was well within his power, which he would not have to be able to communicate with Sliske if he were the mysterious voice.
He also tells Char "It gives me pause that he holds both the Siphon and the Catalyst. I do not want him thinking he can follow in Zamorak's footsteps. He is angry, and may attempt something rash. Inform me if he leads you to the location of either artefact. None of the young gods should have free access to such tools. Especially the Catalyst – the dragonkin cannot grow too strong before we are placed to deal with them."
This suggests that those names are very casual to him, especially since he himself is fond of giving names. Why would he call it a staff when he sees it as a Siphon?
Then there's his command to Nex: "I task you with keeping Sliske's little game in check – watch the young gods. Try to contain their destruction as much as possible, but do not get drawn into open conflict. There may come a time that I need you to step in to ensure nothing interferes with my plans." To him, the game keeps the gods occupied so they won't interfere with his plan. To the mysterious voice, game is the plan.
Sliske has a game where the Stone of Jas is the prize. Why would Zaros send two of his servants to focus on countering different parts of what Sliske is doing? If Zaros had that meeting with Sliske in the vault, did he not know where the vault was? Or if he did know, why didn't he just tell Char to go there?
It just raises too many questions.
The closest we've gotten to a deus ex machina at a peak in this particular storyline would be in Ritual of the Mahjarrat. The Dragonkin are shown in the epilogue of While Guthix Sleeps, then they show up in Ritual of the Mahjarrat. But that actually made sense, since it was Lucien being so incredibly powerful that someone else had to stop him. Here, I don't think we're expecting something like the Dragonkin usurping a Mahjarrat as the "main" villain. This is someone who has been the villain all along.
15-Jun-2016 14:05:23 - Last edited on 15-Jun-2016 14:05:37 by Kemtros
For everyone else, here's the context:
"Is Sliske's master an existing character, even if just mentioned in the lore?"
Mod Raven: "Yes, we're not introducing a new character for that role."
So we can rule out that it might be someone we haven't seen or heard before.
But I'm not sure if the plan is to just bring False Users. The only ones would be Saradomin and Zamorak, in which case, the Battle of Lumbridge would have been the perfect opportunity. And I'm pretty sure Sliske let Zamorak touch the Stone, which I doubt a Dragonkin would approve of unless Kerapac needed that for some kind of experiment.
The Voice has knowledge of the Staff, and how it relates to the Stone, but it doesn't seem to care about the Stone. Which is funny, considering how Sliske's storyline has all just been a part of the Stone of Jas pillar of the Sixth Age. I think Hguoh various possibilities certainly help, especially since it follows the same logic as the Stone of Jas. Hguoh suggested that gathering the gods together might be bait for someone else, and the gods themselves are being baited by the Stone of Jas.
That said, it might be better to apply Occam's razor here and not get too caught in the idea that the gods are bait. Balance both possibilities:
1. The voice wants the gods themselves to gather.
2. The voice is using the gods as bait for someone else.
That said, looking at the dialogue, I do think that when the voice said "This will bring them?", they did mean the gods.
Also, something about these lines…
"This conversation is irrelevant."
"Yes...I suppose you think it is."
There's something about the familiarity here. I don't mean it's like Sliske recently met the master, so they understand them. It's like they've known them for quite some time. Or if they're a Dragonkin or an Elder God, it's because they belong to a group that Sliske would have a general understanding of.
I'm inclined to suggest Saradomin just because he shows up after Sliske killed Guthix. I get that Jagex needed to have somebody show up, and I hope it isn't him, but* that arrival was way too convenient.
Another suggestion, V. I know he's totally dead, but Hero's Welcome was originally going to be required. There's been speculation that he faked his death, and I know Jagex has said that he was absolutely dead.
But those are throwing names out there.
01-Jul-2016 21:26:30 - Last edited on 01-Jul-2016 21:28:42 by Kemtros
But I don't see what Death has to gain from gathering all the gods in one place. Maybe he doesn't want to risk all the lives that would be lost, but then why would the master have allowed Guthix to be slain in the first place?
So I'm not totally ruling out Xau-Tak
You should, as Mod Wilson outright stated it isn't Xau-Tak.
Mod Wilson said:
Hey there. Much as I enjoyed seeing this thread pop up I'd like to confirm something; the mysterious voice in that cutscene is NOT Xau-Tak. Its words carry significantly more weight.
...No, literally. >_> If Sliske comprehended the meaning behind the Black Howling of Xau-Tak then the parts of his brain responsible for processing languages and memory would gain enough gravity that his head would compact to the size of a child’s fist.
It was confirmed at RuneFest that will we find out who Sliske's master is in the Endgame. While people point to the voice saying "Staff" instead of "Siphon" as evidence towards it not being an Elder God, I do think it is one. I maintain my theory that although Jas boiled her egg to make the Stone of Jas, there is a spirit of an Elder God still resting within, so the goal of the tournament is to determine who will become the vessel of the Stone of Jas. Likewise, I also believe that when Zaros told Seren of the Elder Gods, the one of "something else" other than form could be Sliske's master. Now, I'm inclined to believe that these two possibilities are not mutually exclusive, so the spirit in the Stone could also be the Elder God without form (Or of "something else", in case that somehow doesn't necessarily mean the same thing as "without form", but for now I'm going to think it's either one or the other.
It won't be Nomad for me, I made sure that he was dead in Elegy.
I think it is the 6th Elder God, who some are speculating their name, Vos, who is inside the egg who needs to hatch. I think Jas failed to hard-boil the stone of jas correctly and now he/she is mad. Vos needs a vessel. Sliske will provide this vessel. The most powerful God, and guess the two most powerful gods. Seren and Zaros, they are both in the endgame.
Watch out. It's gonna get nasty.
This is exactly what my theory has been for a while now, so I'm glad to see someone else who thinks something similar.
I'm banking on... one of three possible answers.
1.) Oreb. Sliske has his book, he's the expert on souls, and he may or may not be connected to the afterlife and Icthlarin, Sliske's least favourite god. He was never brought up or even mentioned until Tales of Nomad. I don't think Jagex would just up and BOOM create a new character just for that purpose, but who knows..
2.) 6th Elder God. I have no idea where the name Vos is coming from, but I don't like the name, so I'm not using it unless it's canon. It would explain why they know so much and why they seem so.. emotionless. The down side here is Sliske wasn't facing the Stone when he was talking (not that I always face someone when I talk to them), and an Elder God would refer to the Siphon as the Siphon.
3. Jas/Wen/Ful/Bik. I incorporate all of them into one because if Sliske is acting on the will of one Elder God, there's a good chance it's the will of all 4 living Elder Gods. The same evidence to support and contradict as the previous entry apply.
1. Oreb was mentioned as the author of The Divine Delusion in Kindred Spirits, which was before Tales of Nomad. Considering how the first mention of Oreb is immediately before we see this cutscene, and Raven said he didn't want to make a new character, Oreb is really pushing it.
2. The name "Vos" comes from RuneMetrics, and I don't think it's a name so much as an acronym, like "Vessel of Sixth" or "Vessel of Stone", hinting what the winner of the game will become.
3. Out of the ones listed, I would lean towards Jas or Wen in particular. Though I suspect what Wen wants isn't the same as what her sisters want.