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The Queen of Ashes: A Phoenix?

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Lord Valzin
Jul Gold Premier Club Member 2011

Lord Valzin

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Greetings!

As I'm sure you are aware, with the seasonal event, we got to meet a "fallen nihil" who acts as an emissary for the Queen of Ashes. He mentions some things about her that I believe help lead to what the Queen of Ashes is and what her aims are.

I believe that the Queen of Ashes is an ascended phoenix. For starters, the fallen nihil mentions that she gave him a second life, a trait commonly seen in phoenix mythology about being reborn after they have died. Plus, there is a specific way they are said to do this: By rising from the ashes. Not only is this in the queen's name, but the fallen nihil also mentioned that the second life he was given was done through fire, which turns to ashes afterwards.

Next there is the "Enlightenment" mentioned by the fallen nihil. While this word is often spoken in a spiritual sense, for a phoenix it could hold deeper meaning. Phoenixes are said to be associated with the sun, which brings light to planets and help life to grow. However, I believe that for the fallen nihil, this could likely be meant in both ways. Just as the sun can nurture life as well as harm it, this "Enlightenment" could be seen as both a renewal to some like the fallen nihil, and destruction to the inhabitants of the worlds she is currently conquering.

As to what her goals are, I believe that the word "Enlightenment", as well as her possible former time as a phoenix have a role in this. To her, she seeks out worlds that she sees as "unenlightened", conquers them, then works to rebuild them in her way so that they can become Enlightened. This could stem from a phoenix's rebirth ritual where once the phoenix's time has come, it dies and is reborn anew. While this might not necessarily be the case for all the "heretics and insurgents", if her homeworld is that of the phoenixes, there'd be no reason for her to aid in their rebirth since they already would.

So what do you guys think?
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11-Nov-2016 17:13:08

Deltaslug

Deltaslug

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Second Life can be metaphorical.

The Fallen Nihil was a discarded being made (or modified) by Zaros.
The Queen of Ashes found it (and others) and gave them new purpose.
Their old lives were over. They had a new life.

11-Nov-2016 17:35:04

Lethalintent
Dec Gold Premier Club Member 2012

Lethalintent

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I don't agree exactly, but I bet she fancies herself a Phoenix the same way Saradomin paints himself as "The" God.

I personally think an Ascended Auspah makes the most sense, People complain about bringing dead races back, but she wouldn't be of that race anymore, nor would she of been apart of it for an astronomically long time.
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11-Nov-2016 17:35:49

Kittyphantom
Jul Member 2008

Kittyphantom

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Lethalintent said:
I don't agree exactly, but I bet she fancies herself a Phoenix the same way Saradomin paints himself as "The" God.

I personally think an Ascended Auspah makes the most sense, People complain about bringing dead races back, but she wouldn't be of that race anymore, nor would she of been apart of it for an astronomically long time.


Dead race complaints aren't always valid, though

Like, no one *actually* said the Icyene were all dead. People just assumed that because of Morytania, but pre-Branches of Darkmeyer there wasn't even any indication that there was more than one Icyene there (Efaritay).

Also, I liked CD_Paladin's theory about it being Elidinis, but this phoenix theory is intriguing too.
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11-Nov-2016 18:48:19

Lord Valzin
Jul Gold Premier Club Member 2011

Lord Valzin

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Lethalintent said:
I don't agree exactly, but I bet she fancies herself a Phoenix the same way Saradomin paints himself as "The" God.

I personally think an Ascended Auspah makes the most sense, People complain about bringing dead races back, but she wouldn't be of that race anymore, nor would she of been apart of it for an astronomically long time.


If that's the case, then we'd have 2 deities who see themselves as a phoenix.

Also, while I agree that both phoenixes and the Auspah are fire-based races, from what we know it seems the Queen of Ashes is more like a phoenix. I might not be seeing something about the Auspah race that you do, but to me we don't know much of their race for it to be the likely option.
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11-Nov-2016 19:33:07

Wahisietel
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2005

Wahisietel

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But Armadyl is the Phoenix god, as he likes to remind us every other sentence.

Armadyl is the Queen of Ashes confirmed?
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11-Nov-2016 20:38:47

Lord Valzin
Jul Gold Premier Club Member 2011

Lord Valzin

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Wahisietel said:
But Armadyl is the Phoenix god, as he likes to remind us every other sentence.

Armadyl is the Queen of Ashes confirmed?


Or he met up with her on his travels and she taught about being a phoenix and also about her heretic/insurgent-crushing ways.
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11-Nov-2016 20:43:47

Kemtros
Feb Member 2006

Kemtros

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Lord Valzin said:
Wahisietel said:
But Armadyl is the Phoenix god, as he likes to remind us every other sentence.

Armadyl is the Queen of Ashes confirmed?


Or he met up with her on his travels and she taught about being a phoenix and also about her heretic/insurgent-crushing ways.


Oh hey, that's why Osborne wants her in a sequel to The Mighty Fall. The Queen of Ashes wants to congratulate Armadyl for killing Bandos!

To be honest, as much as I like phoenixes, I think having the QoA be one would be a bit underwhelming, though I do think you raise a good point in comparing how "redemption" of the Fallen Nihil to a phoenix rising from the ashes, but as with Armadyl, it might only be metaphorical. The connection to the sun seems to be more like how Seren tells us that she would show Sliske could light could burn. Though I suppose a sun connection would further support the theory that she's Elidinis, considering Tumeken's own sun motif.

Maybe someone else has an idea, but the Fallen Nihil referred to "pyradins", which basically sounds short for "pyro-paladins", so I would assume that she has her own sense of a knightly following. I could actually see the Queen being a "mirror" of sorts to the gods, given how V says she would recruit the downtrodden. Perhaps the Fallen Nihil is a very good example of who she's looking for in her recruits? Someone abandoned by the gods, and she could bring them into her service, perhaps to allow them the opportunity to find revenge.

Also, the idea of her trying to reshape the world is a little redundant when we already have the Great Revision to worry about.

12-Nov-2016 05:21:34

Lord Valzin
Jul Gold Premier Club Member 2011

Lord Valzin

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Kemtros said:
snip


1) The redemption part is a bit difficult to work with, I understand. The fallen nihil was already well, a nihil which are quite powerful creatures.

2) The connection to the sun part was more about the mythology of phoenixes, and where the overall phoenix resemblances appear.

3) Maybe as individuals, she would find those who had been abandoned by the gods. However, the mention of pyradins could imply that she has one particular race she recruits for the purposes of joining her pyradins.

4) I didn't mean anything as large as that. I meant that like what has happened at the end of wars in the past, fallen civilisations are simply rebuilt but with the Queen of Ashes' mindset and culture instilled in it.
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12-Nov-2016 13:20:45

Kemtros
Feb Member 2006

Kemtros

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Oh, I do think the Fallen Nihil was given its fire powers from the Queen. It may have been made from powerful creatures, but perhaps none that gave it an affinity to fire.

I do understand that the sun was meant to focus more on phoenixes, but because there's already a theory that she's Elidinis, I thought there would be an opportunity to connect the two. The only thing that gets in the way of that is that Elidinis' animal aspect is meant to be a hippo instead.

Her recruiting those abandoned by the gods would feed into my own theory that she is the Goddess of Rebellion. The pyradins may not be a particular race that she recruits, but could instead refer to a title of sorts. For example, she may recruit members of many races, each with their own grudges to bear, but by having them all join the pyradins, she may intend to give them a sense of unity, a common bond among her people.

A rebellion would also fit with what you're saying about how civilizations are rebuilt after wars. She may instigate a war, and by overthrowing an authority, she can allow the victorious rebels to, as you said, instill her mindset. That would match how V said that she recruits the downtrodden to her infernal cause.

12-Nov-2016 15:59:51

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