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Tamond
May Gold Premier Club Member 2012

Tamond

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Pokkle said:
Mighty suspicious I keep hearing "we're not calling for goblins to one-shot you," while not hearing a real example of what kind of buff may be administered.

I.E. You assure me goblins won't be one-shotting but what about three-shotting? Does giving abyssal demons 50k LP each sound reasonable without buffing their XP by at least 7 or so? Will Gargoyles get splashed on by water spells cast by someone with 80 magic, t80 staff? Will Dark beasts hit constant 1k+ with no splashes to anything under t85 tank armour?

Give me some real parameters instead of knocking down that ridiculous straw man that is the OHKO goblin spec. Who knows? Maybe I'll agree that it's a good idea.



People have talked about it a lot, maybe not in the past few pages because of how ridiculous the conversations have become.

As an example, in detail, abyssal demons. Pre-EOC on the 99 HP scale, they had 150 HP, max hit of 8, gave 150 slayer XP and 600 XP in a combat skill. They now offer 660 combat XP and 277 slayer XP, which is a significant increase despite having their HP reduced to (85)00, before we even include our insane accuracy, damage output, and AOE. Not only that, but they received multiple drop table buffs AND these values are buffed from early EOC's utterly pathetic 3650 HP and 292 max hit. These monsters were made significantly more rewarding despite having maybe half their old strength, which is a BUFF from 1/4 of their strength. Of course our damage system is now about more consistent damage rather than blocking 90% of hits before taking a large hit so we can consider it fair to not have the old max hit.

It's no stretch of the imagination though to use pre-eoc stats as guidelines for the strength/health of monsters. We still deal much more damage and they generally give more XP so it's still generous to new players, but monsters instantly dying is a reason we can AOE and we take so little damage.

19-Oct-2016 05:31:04

Pokkle
Oct Member 2017

Pokkle

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First off, I think it's silly to compare the RS economy to anything in the real world granted that this is just a game, and massive inflation isn't going to have catastrophic consequences.

I'm not sure where the "basing everything off of a possibility" thing is coming from, but if it makes any difference, I have a job and also have worked previous jobs.

Also, I never said that the current progression is too easy. I'm saying that it's fine as is, and that returning to the days of 50k/hr would be hugely detrimental, given how much more content there is past level 70 combat skills than there was back when.

Now as for the bank bidders thing, I think what people are hugely concerned with is the possibility of an instantaneous dump of resources that came from 100s of hours of botting being thrown into the economy (100k's of dragon bones, millions of steel bars, etc). There's hardly any resource in which 2k would be considered as having a massive economic impact. As for rares, eh, those are their own thing and don't really matter as far as game balancing goes. They really should never have an effect when considering economical decisions.

Getting back to the topic at hand, what about discussing the potential "buffs" that you all want so badly?
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19-Oct-2016 05:38:04

Tamond
May Gold Premier Club Member 2012

Tamond

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So with that in mind, an abyssal demon having health more along the lines of the 15k range isn't that far-fetched.

Likewise, Dark Beasts give more loot and XP than they used to per-kill while also having their health reduced to a meager 8500 down from what would have been 22000 if pre-eoc scaling was used. Their max hit was also cut from 17/8 to around 600/600, but again we don't have 100% prayer protection and armor is different so we can cut some slack. What is COMPLETELY inappropriate is with those low damage totals, for some odd reason prayer is ALMOST 100% effective, so with a mere 37 prayer you can set up a cannon and tackle all of the beasts no problem. That's a balancing disaster. So again it's not unreasonable to say dark beasts should have more HP and at the very least have normal damage reduction on prayer. Admittedly I think it would be funny to make them max 5k so using protection 95% protection prayers was needed and still balanced, but again I just think it would be funny and not a particularly good idea for them.


Such a case can be seen consistently, almost every mob has MUCH less health and defense than it used to, barely hits anything, and yet gives more rewards, and it isn't just "easier," it's a massive gutting to the point that a lot of players would feel insulted by it. The only things to really stand out properly are some bosses, particularly low leveled ones like KBD which are tanky and have enough health to last more than a few hits. But even then there are some boss which got more health than pre-eoc but had their defense gutted. For example Graardor and especially K'ril, they have more HP than before but virtually no block chance in comparison so they still die exceedingly quickly, without putting up a real fight and are honestly soloable at levels where people should be considering bringing a buddy or two. I also rant enough about QBD, but her atrocious balancing and drop system is a historic blight on PvM balancing.

There are issues.

19-Oct-2016 05:40:56

Eva Element

Eva Element

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Pokkle said:
First off, I think it's silly to compare the RS economy to anything in the real world granted that this is just a game, and massive inflation isn't going to have catastrophic consequences.


Actually it is because there are a lot of similarities that can give a lot of hints of cause and effect to certain actions. And the effect would be very noticeable. For example weapons and items requiring gp rather then resources to repair is set up specifically to counter act high alch spell literally injecting billions of coins into the game daily.

Which helps address one economic problem but creates an entirely different one. Because since items degrade but don't need specific drops to repair like RCB the price of those items keep falling in a continual spiral downward. Because those items never leave the game and just keep building up to saturation point and beyond. In fact the only way any of those items are removed from the game is due to people being banned.

Pokkle said:
I'm not sure where the "basing everything off of a possibility" thing is coming from, but if it makes any difference, I have a job and also have worked previous jobs.


Your post says differently:

Pokkle said:
They don't have to deal with future potential mobs that give possibly 1m+ slayer XP and hour and several mil.


Pokkle said:
Also, I never said that the current progression is too easy. I'm saying that it's fine as is, and that returning to the days of 50k/hr would be hugely detrimental, given how much more content there is past level 70 combat skills than there was back when.


And yet are you aware that free to play rangers can earn 68k an hour killing catablepon in strong hold of security. 70+k an hour if they ignore drops. They have a max hit of 152 damage and 9.5k hp.
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19-Oct-2016 18:04:55

Eva Element

Eva Element

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They can also kill Deadly Red spiders for 90k an hour with melee.

Fire blast on lesser demons can yield 100k an hour magic exp

That 50k/hr example is an old p2p amount. And yet current F2p are able to earn well more then that.

For P2P water fiends can yield any were from 150k-400k/hr range exp depending on weapon and gear.

Members can earn 130k-170k melee exp at deadly red spiders an hour

Members can also earn 100k-200k attacking monkey guards at Ape Atoll using earth wave after they become non aggressive.

We blow the hell out of the 50k/hr rate of before. And with blowing that out of the water we also advance in the game much faster then before.

Just the deadly red spiders going from level 1-99 is ~ 100 hours give or take. Divide that to 3 hours a day and only requires 34 days to go from 1 to 99. A player would be able to achieve 99 in all combat skills in ~6 months time. Assuming they only spent 3 hours a day training said skill.

And those 6 months are not enough to learn the skills needed to take on higher end content. Because no slayer mob of any level even vaugly prepares players for taking on a boss harder then GWD bosses (not including Nex) nor is it enough to amass the gp needed to get higher end items. Because with exp rate they are being rocket propelled towards end game content before skill and bank levels would naturally reach the point to deal with those levels.

Or a more humorous out look on it. An entire Mc Donalds staffed with people who have Doctorate degrees because they are rushed so fast though college they don't earn the knowledge they really need and so have to work at a minimum wage job flipping burgers to get by.
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19-Oct-2016 18:05:14

Eva Element

Eva Element

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Pokkle said:
Now as for the bank bidders thing, I think what people are hugely concerned with is the possibility of an instantaneous dump of resources that came from 100s of hours of botting being thrown into the economy (100k's of dragon bones, millions of steel bars, etc). There's hardly any resource in which 2k would be considered as having a massive economic impact. As for rares, eh, those are their own thing and don't really matter as far as game balancing goes. They really should never have an effect when considering economical decisions.


And yet every second we get hundreds of combined hours of resources dumped into the game. Not from bots but from players skilling and more and more killing mobs. But when you add that possible amount being injected into the economy it causes problems.

Which is kind of my point exponentially increasing the scale of drops to increase profit as new content comes out creates this exact problem. Without an equally exponentially increase demand for the items it just over whelms the game and causes them to drop down. Requiring even more of those items dropped to maintain the same value.

In regards to rares in many circles some would argue that rares are the foundation of our game economy. Which given the large amounts of gp that in is involved with them has at least a few grains of truth to it.
I'm a big entropy fan.

All subtlety and nuance of a napalm enema

19-Oct-2016 18:06:32

Eva Element

Eva Element

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Pokkle said:
Getting back to the topic at hand, what about discussing the potential "buffs" that you all want so badly?


Buffs that I want or buffs that are more realistic to happen?

Because buffs I would want is to turn all slayer mobs (IE guys that actually have slayer requirement) into sort of mini bosses. Were instead of killing 225 guys you kill 75 of them. And achieve the same exp rates as current set up. Increase HP 3-4x to current amount. Boost damage 2-3x current damage. To the point that players would have a legitimate choice between 2hd/DW or 1h shield. That way as you level up the lower level mobs become easier but the higher level mobs keep a degree of difficulty. While giving them basic ability set ups.

Dark beasts as example would hit you with a persistent stat drain effect that you would need to freedom out of. If you activate reflect it would rebound the attack inflicting a persistent stat drain effect on them for 30 seconds. Every now and then they would charge at you requiring you to side step or escape backwards. If they hit you they deal 50% total life point damage to you and hit you with a bleed attack equal to Slaughter threshold using a level 70 weapon. Anticipation would prevent the bleed and freedom would clear it.

Now that is what I would like. Which I know won't happen. There is a better chance of me juggling flaming chainsaws at the bottom of the Mariana Trench while teaching a Megaldon Shark to sit.

What I realistically expect to happen would be closer to doubling current hp amounts. And increasing min and max hit of mobs by a minimum of 50% or more again depending on individual mobs.

Doubling their health would allow them to take more hits and not die so easily. And increased damage would allow them to increase damage done to player so it can't just be shrugged off so easily.
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All subtlety and nuance of a napalm enema

19-Oct-2016 18:07:05

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