M&S tweaks needed

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Jul Gold Premier Club Member 2011


Posts: 479Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The description for the rework included the wording "make mining and smithing more profitable" but it hasn't really worked out that way. Here are some tweak ideas to help make it actually more profitable:

A) Increase high alch values to be more in line with the guide prices you want.

-The elder rune ore and bar prices tanked way too fast. This is because, while the guide price was set initially at close to 90k per bar, the alch price per bar for finished items was set at 10k. Of course prices were going to tank, and tank hard. Street/insta-sell prices for the bars are now at less than 15k just 1 week after the update. At that price, it's not worth the effort it takes to obtain all of the ores. This goes all the way down the ore tiers, btw.

-To fix this, increase the alch prices, which was always meant to provide a stable floor for mining and smithing item prices, anyways. It doesn't have to be as high as the initial guide price, but 10k per bar value is way too low for the effort put into obtaining the ore, smelting and then smithing the items. Maybe 30-40k per bar value?

B) Make higher tiered items degrade only when actually used in combat, not just from putting them on. Because this makes them untradeable, which is further depressing value/prices.

C) Yes, I know an emphasis was put on better smithing xp with this update, but I think y'all are overestimating the draw xp alone has, especially for those of us who already have our 99s in mining/smithing or who are maxed. We do it for the money - and when you make it less profitable, that negatively affects us. It's also highly face-slappingly ironic that this update was touted as a way to make m&s more profitable but in effect has actually made it less profitable.

D) Keep in mind too this affects demand and prices for bonds. Bonds have already dropped in street price slightly since the M&S update. It affects demand and prices for everything in the runescape economy, really.

16-Jan-2019 04:20:43

Dan Ace114
Jun Member 2019

Dan Ace114

Posts: 147Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Values of bars are tanking due to how easy and quick it is to get the ore and smelt bars. If rocks were not unlimited, there wouldn’t be an endless supply of ore, the price of ore would still be high and thus the price of bars would still be high.

16-Jan-2019 05:29:37

Jul Gold Premier Club Member 2011


Posts: 479Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Unlimited =/= easy to get. Honestly, rune was technically unlimited before the update - you just had to move around. And there were a lot more places to get it.

Before the update, regular rune bars were going for close to 14k guide price, and not much lower than that street price. They took 1 runite ore and 6 coal, which was fairly easy to get.

Now, you've got elder rune bars going for less than 15k street price, and they require a runite ore, a luminite ore, a light animica ore, and a dark animica ore.

-runite ore is still pretty easy to get to.
-luminite is actually better than coal, requiring only 1 vs 6; however, it's a bit more difficult to get to than coal was.
-the only places you can get the light animica ore are either in the isafdar mine - which has a quest requirement - or in the desert, which has the heat damage element, unless you've completed quests.
-literally the only place you can get dark animica ore is in Sennisten, and has a quest requirement.
-Note that both animicas are far from a bank, requiring either frequent bank trips - which reduces profit/hr - or the use of portable banks or signs of the porter, both of which reduce profit. Yes, even with the fully unlocked elder rune ore box, that's still only 166 ore per trip (167 if you drop all geodes), vs 950 ore per trip with the ore box + 27 signs of the porter VI, which takes a diamond necklace and 80 incandescent ore to make, which reduces profit per bar when those materials are bought on the grand exchange by 541gc per bar, or if you gather the items yourself to make them that slows down profit per hour as well/takes longer.
-And that's not even getting into how long it takes to get an ore from the animica rocks, being the highest level ore rocks in the game with the highest durability and hardness.

This is not strictly a supply and demand problem. I repeat, the 10k per bar alch value for elder rune is way too low, and not providing enough of a stable floor for prices.

16-Jan-2019 06:12:07

Jul Gold Premier Club Member 2011


Posts: 479Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
(Well, technically, not having a high enough floor to stabilize prices is part of supply and demand, but you make it seem like the problem is just a glut on the market - too much supply. But that's not the case.)

16-Jan-2019 06:16:36

Jul Gold Premier Club Member 2011


Posts: 479Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Alright one more reply and then I'm done for the night. My entire point is this: if the alch value per bar is only 10k, you're not gonna get a street value much higher than that, regardless of the supply amount.

-Alchers provide a big part of the demand for the finished smithed items
-If alchers can only get 10k per bar value for elder rune items from alching them, they're not going to be willing to pay more than that for the items (and usually less, to cover the cost of runes and make a profit).
-Many players buy the smelted bars to cut down on smithing time and increase xp/hr and profit/hr rates. This is and long has been one of the main methods used to "skip" that part of smithing.
-If these players can only get a little less than 10k per bar value for their items, that's all they're going to be willing to pay for the bars.
-Which negatively affects the players who mine the ore and/or smith the bars to sell.
-Jagex clearly thought the value was going to be much higher judging by the initial guide price they set.
-But they doomed the value of all of it - ore, bars, finished items - to tank fast and hard because they set the alch value so low.
-(Seriously, why was the alch value per bar set at 0.11% of the initial guide price, that's insane.)
-ERGO, to fix this problem that they created and help shore up prices to what they obviously wanted/thought they were going to be, they need to increase the alch value.

16-Jan-2019 07:00:50

Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2007


Posts: 1,254Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The main core of the low values is supply and demand your 100% correct, but there is one slightly unmentioned issue. This whole entire update removed the demand for ores like I afked all my ores while doing quests on osrs, so buying ores is defeated since I could afk them. If you relate this to all play styles, even if you make 5m+ an hour, there will always be a time of day you need to find something to afk. If ores are high value, more will afk them resulting in a crash. So overall these ores will never be high value. Most of the gears you make with smithing were high alch value day 2, minus masterwork. Smithing is also semi afk so for those reasons i'll probably afk a set instead of using my pvm/clue scroll loot to buy faster. Time saved vs GP saved = nothing when afking is a factor. Basically to sum it up, it's always greater to pvm/clue scrolls and buy the ores, it's faster but we all have to afk sometimes and when we do, we afk the most valued thing whether it be divine charges with full div elder outfit with divine-o-matic or now mine/smith our very own trimmed masterwork, unless your 100% always pvming and never afk or smithing/mining is low/higher than the other or low in both, your not in the market to be buying any of this lol.

Why buy something you can afk during your afk time? @AfkScape

16-Jan-2019 13:13:10

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