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Remove TH

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Blackwing

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Acra said:
Support, I've been a major participant of TH over the years and I'd love to see it gone. However, I don't see it leaving as it generates a lot more revenue than monthly membership cost.

Edit: If they did remove it they'd have to substitute something else and that could be worse.

That's false, actually; Jagex's financial statements prove that membership revenue is much greater (almost 20 million £) than microtransaction revenue, as you can see here:



You can find the statements on the Companies House website, and even though we don't yet have the statement for 2017, you have to remember that the MTX situation was already outright terrible in 2016 and even in 2015, so you can't really argue either that "well maybe they've had a tougher time in 2017", because they already pushed out MTX very aggressively in those previous years. And don't forget that MTX revenue includes TH, Solomon's store and bonds, meaning that out of the MTX revenue you see listed there, only a part of it comes from TH.

So really, they wouldn't have to substitute TH for anything else; they could just go back to Solomon's store additions, which are fine since they're mostly cosmetic AND guaranteed, so they don't prey on gambling addictions.
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13-Jan-2018 12:15:54

Blackwing

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Miu said:
We see skilling add-ons and another skilling outfit return to the players of the game through non-MTX means.

Remove TH!

It's both an improvement and a trap (two traps even) at the same time when TH-exclusive items that give benefits are added to the regular gameplay; sure, it makes the MTX less P2W after it becomes a part of the base game, but because of that, it breeds new apologists. Whenever new items like that are added to TH, the apologists give it a free pass because they assume the items are going to be released sooner or later to the base game. Additionally, whenever Jagex does do it, Jagex makes damn sure to advertise the hell out of how "generous" they are for doing so, treating it as an actual game update, even though the items will likely have existed for a year or longer prior to doing so. > )
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03-Feb-2018 20:20:58

Blackwing

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Polleena said:
Treasure hunter is keeping rs3 alive why remove it and let the game die?

Jagex need to make money to run the game.

Jagex's financial statements show that even if they removed *all* MTX (yes, all of them, not just TH), they'd still be making profit each year, so no, it is not needed, and they could easily remove TH and keep the game running. Of course the jmods are going to say that TH is necessary, but those are ambiguous statements to put up a good face in the public; the numbers they provide in their financial statements however, do not lie. > )
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20-Mar-2018 11:24:15

Blackwing

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Doorknob747 said:
I have to agree with @Miu. If MTX is removed from the game, more people might play RS3. In fact, one major reason why some people moved to OSRS was the introduction of the MTX system. OSRS does not have a MTX system. I once went to OSRS and started talking about MTX, and people started calling me a traitor there and suggested that I go back to RS3.

Just compare the sheer size of the RS3 player base to the more massive OSRS player base. It is really self evident that removing MTX from RS3 will increase its player base. By continuing to be on the MTX system we are hurting the player base, as it is gradually decreasing.

Yeah; I'm fine with either combat system, either graphics etc, but OSRS to me is much more appealing due to the fact that it's not polluted to death with MTX. There are bonds just like in RS3 of course, but they at least have some positives to them (unlike TH) and they aren't constantly shoved in your face like TH and its promotions. RS3 could be a much better game, if the "people" running it learned some morals, or were replaced by those who already possess them. > )
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20-Mar-2018 22:37:56

Blackwing

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Doorknob747 said:
Now to make sure that we are staying on topic with the OPer, TH is a major part of the MTX system. Now you might wonder that if I do not support the removal of TH, but support the removal of MTX, how is that possible? The removal of MTX can be done without the removal of TH, by making it that you can no longer buy extra keys.

Basically the TH key system should be changed back to how it was when "Squeel of Fortune" first came out, where you can not buy more spins with bonds. The number of spins you got each day was the number of spins you had, unless you got more spins as a quest completion reward.

What I think should be done as stated in the previous 2 paragraphs is that the, TH and MTX should be separated from each other.

Best I can say to this is that doing this would be a step in the right direction, but it shouldn't stop here. Obviously one of the biggest problems with TH is that it's utter P2W, which would be removed by doing this, but even if you couldn't buy more keys, it'd still feel like an out-of-place injector. Spawning items out of nowhere just breaks the immersion, so even though it might give small increments of free stuff and thus be considered enjoyable, having immersion is just so much more fulfilling than that.
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20-Mar-2018 22:38:44

Blackwing

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Noob King said:
Without TH and MTX in general the game wouldn't survive, unless membership would go up a lot. This is why i disagree with your opinion to remove TH.

Don't like it? Play Ironman, no TH there.

Cute, you have 2 of the 3 classic apologist cliches here:

1. "TH/MTX is needed for the game to survive"
2. "Just play ironman mode if you don't like TH"

For the first one, a quick look at Jagex's financial statements (which you can find at the Companies House) reveals that none of the MTX is necessary for the game to be making profit, and this thread is for the removal of TH only. Even if you removed all of the MTX, there'd be no need to increase the membership prices.

For the second one, it's not an acceptable solution; making an ironman requires you to start over, which would make all your previous progress null and void. On top of that, it comes with other restrictions that not everyone who hates TH, is willing to nor should be forced to take. And finally, if you encourage Jagex to exploit its customers by turning a blind eye to TH, you do realize that nothing is going to stop them from doing the same in another way to ironmen too? They could do something as simple as making a new store that sells exp at fixed real money prices, and it'd be allowed for ironmen, because it wouldn't be TH, it'd be its own entity.

So please, do a bit more research, instead of believing everything the jmods say in their PR statements. > )
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27-Mar-2018 13:10:21

Blackwing

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Noob King said:
First off, Jagex is owned by Insight Venture Partners, they expect to make money from the company, not just to keep the game alive.

*was owned

Now they're owned by the Chinese.


Noob King said:
Second, if you actually look into how much they profit (Not total revenue), then you can see how vital a part the MTX is to the game. Yes they would still make a profit without it, but you still have to take into account that they are owned by a parant company, which want to make a decent profit too.

That's just it; TH is asked to be removed here, not all MTX. MTX includes bonds and runecoins too, both of which are also pretty heavily sold. Removing TH would be just fine.


Noob King said:
Third, if you don't want TH, but don't want to play Ironman (Or the upcoming group ironman) then why not just ignore TH? How is it hurting you?

There we go, I knew you could figure out the third cliche and include it as well. > )

Let's step back for a second; do you know what Runescape is? It's a massive multiplayer online RPG. What do multiplayer games typically have you do? Interact with other players and influence their gameplay in various ways. Some interactions/influences in Runescape include, but are not limited to:

1. Trading/buying/selling items
2. PvPing
3. Bossing

Now, what if I told you that TH affects all those things negatively? That's right, you might not be aware of it yourself if you try your hardest to ignore it, but not being aware of it doesn't mean nothing is happening behind your back.

continued in the next post
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27-Mar-2018 14:38:16

Blackwing

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continued from above

TH kills the purpose of hiscores, because it's physically impossible to compete with the exp rates provided by TH, by using actual training methods.

TH gives exp without consuming actual resources in the game, meaning that using keys to train skills like prayer, herblore, smithing etc, means that bones, herbs, unf potions, bars etc resources are not used, which results in the said resources losing their value due to decreased demand.

TH also injects more of those resources into the game, because they're used as the "junk" white/yellow prizes, which the key buyers don't bother using, so they dump them to the GE, resulting in those resources losing their value further, due to increased supply as well.

TH, due to having the fastest exp/hour in the entire game, accelerates the rate at which new players have access to certain moneymaking methods that have skill requirements, for example incandescent energy gathering. This results in the said moneymaking methods losing their moneymaking potential faster than is natural.

TH, again due to having the fastest exp/hour in the whole game, allows you to pay to win by being able to buy all your skill levels very quickly, which can be used against other players in PvP, or when competing against other players in slayer, FFA bossing, gathering certain resources etc.

continued again in the next post
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27-Mar-2018 14:38:30

Blackwing

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continued from above

...and those are just the harmful consequences when you're playing in-game. TH also encourages Jagex to be lazier, because if people pay them the same amount of money, or more money, for doing less work, then they aren't going to bother working as much for their income anymore, now are they? You can see it in the quantity and quality of updates already: temporary events are constantly spammed unto us, with the same basic skeleton of mechanics but a different graphical skin laid over it (Lumbridge crater events & currency package events). Actual game updates are constantly delayed (see Solak as a recent example, delayed multiple times), and still come with major bugs (see the clue scroll rework, which had a simple bug that allowed the abusers to open the same reward casket as many times as they wanted).

So, honestly, if you're happy with all that, good for you and I hope that your bubble never bursts, for your own sake. Personally though, I can't live in a similar state of ignorance, because I want to have a meaningful gameplay experience, which actually requires some effort from Jagex; the level of effort that they used to have long ago. > )
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27-Mar-2018 14:38:38

Blackwing

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Konota said:
Best solution =
Reduce TH on RS3
Introduce a reduced TH on 07.

Conclusion:
(Maybe) Same profit for Jagex & less easyscape for Rs3.
I mean, why does Rs3 have to be the cows and not 07?

Killing 2 games slower isn't better than killing 1 game faster; they'd both die in the end. The real best solution is to remove TH on RS3 and focus on Solomon's store; that way, both games can live! > )
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04-Apr-2018 11:28:39

Blackwing

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Miu said:
Trust trading to swap gold isn't allowed on the forums and if you see any of that you should report it to forum help.

Any sort of trust trading IIRC is nowadays allowed on the forums, as long as it's placed on the appropriate subforum of course. (Well except maybe DMM swapping under the current rules, heard it had stricter rules this time but not really sure how it works.)

---

But yea, even though you can swap trade gp/other wealth across the games, they're still completely separate from each other, because the traded gp/wealth doesn't move across games; it stays on its own game and merely changes hands inside that particular game. > )
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17-Apr-2018 23:18:01

Blackwing

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Miu said:
No, other trust trading is allowed, but gold swapping is still not allowed to be organized on the forums.

See here Quick find code: 319-320-51-64255724
Which is still considered part of the forum rules.

You can also see here Quick find code: 94-95-486-65989354 for an example of the rule still being applied post forum rules changing.

Oh, my bad then.

Traeh said:
Jagex should change the way they have the high score system

high score is almost pointless the way it is now because of TH.

No wonder OSRS are bitter about it maybe?

....

if I'm wrong someone correct me and tell me ORSR AND RS3 ARE not using the same high score .

OSRS and RS3 have separate hiscores on their respective websites, but like you said, RS3 hiscores are pretty much pointless because of TH. > )
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18-Apr-2018 07:42:07

Blackwing

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0815 said:
As for the topic: As long as there are customers who are buying there will be Treasure Hunter content. Those in favour of TH, continue buying, those against, stop buying. At the end of the year the numbers matter.

If only Jagex figured it out that long term, they'd make more money from subscriptions and cosmetic MTX if they scrapped the P2W MTX. Hell, even keeping bonds would be fine, as they actually do a lot of good, while TH does nada in that regard. > )
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03-May-2018 18:02:51

Blackwing

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Trancers said:
Here's a fun idea instead of removing Treasure Hunter, don't use your keys not even your dailies and pretend like it doesn't exist, problem solved, wow I'm surprised how easy of a fix that was ^_^

Just one pretty big problem with this: Runescape is an MMO, not a single player game. In an MMO, what other people do, affect you as well, directly and in-directly. So even if you don't use TH yourself, when other people do use it, TH gives an unfair advantage to hiscore competition, it injects more resources to the game, which increases their supply -> their price drops, and because key buyers level their skills with exp from lamps and stars, it also means that they don't consume already existing resources in the game, which decreases their demand -> their price drops further. TH causes numerous consequences like this to the game, which you cannot ignore, because it is physically impossible, as long as the game is an MMO (even ironmen are affected; e.g. ironmen who pay for their membership with bonds, need to cough up more gp for their membership, because TH promos drive up the bond prices like crazy).

So even though your idea would work for a single player game, it sadly is not a viable option for Runescape players. > )
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28-May-2018 14:04:01

Blackwing

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Billiebear said:
Yeah, IMO Treasure Hunter is very artificial. It's nothing more than a survival tactic for Jagex, but I respect they gotta do what they gotta do. The RS3 community is severed compared to that of 2010 and before, so the revenue has to come from somewhere.

They don't need to do it though; their financial statements have shown that even if all of their MTX was removed, they'd still be making a profit. And removing TH wouldn't remove MTX in its entirety either, it'd just be the removal of the worst, and useless one. So you don't need to worry about Jagex's survival. > )

Billiebear said:
Furthermore, smithing, cooking, crafting, fletching: they all suck as skills. They're 100% repetitive. So at least protean items mitigate this to an extent. I went from 77-80 smithing thanks to Postie Pete.

I mean, cooking doesn't even have its own protean, so why'd you list it here?

Proteans are also just as repetitive as regular skilling; the key difference is that proteans are more afk.

Billiebear said:
To state it another way, with 5 large packs, 6 medium, and 10 small protean packs, which in total is nearly impossible to acquire in a reasonable amount of time, I got just over 700k xp. This means little to someone fighting for max or 200M xp.

A whale-like key buyer wouldn't settle for that; they'd spin for much more than that. And you gotta remember, those 700k exp you got from proteans, is 700k exp less resources used from the regular game, so the prices of existing resources drops accordingly from decreased demand.
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31-May-2018 19:23:47

Blackwing

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Miu said:
I'm also confident that if TH was removed, bonds would pick up the slack.

Not to mention that regular membership revenue would also increase, since more people would give the game a go/return to play if the game wasn't so disgustingly P2W.

This is also great to see that TH is less revenue than RC+bonds, because in the past (to my knowledge) we didn't have the MTX revenue separated to each category, and now that we do, given how much Jagex has spammed TH to our faces (emails, in-game pop-up adverts, news posts on the website, that annoying chest that you have to click off every time you log in etc), TH has still done relatively poorly, considering that Solomon's store was largely abandoned and bonds are significantly less advertised/obtrusive.

So there is still a good chance to get TH removed and make the game great again! > )
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04-Jun-2018 20:20:55

Blackwing

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Alpha Trion said:
I actually came on the forums because I don't see Treasure Hunter plastered EVERYWHERE all over the home page.

That is refreshing and nice actually.

In a way it is, yes, but Jagex didn't do it with good intentions. In its current state, RS3 is like moldy bread; it's good normally, but TH (mold) is ruining it. What Jagex did here was remove the TH news posts (moldy bits that appear on the surface of the bread) to fool new and possibly returning players into buying membership for a game with predatory MTX (bread that looks okay on the outside, but has mold on the inside still).

So as sad as it sounds, whilst TH remains in the game, we should have TH news posts on the website, to prevent naive players from getting tricked into buying something else than they thought they did. Although obviously, just like with mold in a bread, Jagex could simply remove TH in its entirety, instead. > )


Alpha Trion said:
I haven't logged in a while, I'm betting I am still forced to see the treasure hunter dialogue box every new day. Why can't that be toggled off?

Simple; Jagex's marketing team expects you to get hooked into buying keys sooner or later, and that even if you don't, they think it's worth the risk if they can hook enough dolphins and whales.

It's pretty disappointing to see a company that originally based its success around making a good game with integrity, throw all that potential away by focusing on exploitating our psyche instead. > /
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10-Aug-2018 15:45:37

Blackwing

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eeping said:
The problem with removing Th at this point in the game is that it's been in the game far too long.

Yes that includes the SoF too, they've taken their tole on the game and have already given an unfair advantage to many players, for example allowing famous youtuber A Friend to max with ease.

Many others may have also done this.

Meaning any new players will be at a disadvantage.

No support.

That's a terrible excuse to prevent preserving the long term health of the game; sure, it might annoy some that others were able to get an advantage, but it'll be worse if the damaging effect doesn't stop, and those people need to understand that. Just how big of an advantage it is can also be controlled by how the game is developer afterwards.

And if you think I'm saying this because it'd benefit me, let me clarify: Jagex has done and continues to do changes like this (mostly on OSRS but occasionally on RS3 too). For example, before I started playing OSRS, it was possible for a very long time to get 99 magic very cheaply, whilst you were sleeping/in school/at work irl, by splashing for several hours in a row, because the game wouldn't kick you out for hours as long as you were performing any actions like that, and splashing was an automated process (but didn't require botting). They finally changed it so that even if you were doing that to keep yourself logged in past the normal 5-minute inactivity kick, you'd still get automatically logged out after 10 minutes if you didn't interact with the game physically (clicking/pressing something), putting an end to the sleeping training and at minimum requiring supervising if training at school/work.

On a personal level, did I feel bad about missing out on that? Sure, a little bit. But I'm not gonna quit or request it to be reversed, because it's healthier for the game in the long term to not have that.

(And btw, all A Friend's accounts were permabanned recently.)
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25-Aug-2018 13:21:24

Blackwing

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Nisshoku said:
Just looking at the main page of RS3 and OSRS, the players online are around the same amount, give or take a few thousand players.

Just wanted to make sure if you didn't know: the player counter on RS3's website includes both RS3 and OSRS players currently online, not just RS3. OSRS website's player counter only shows OSRS players online, so to get the player count for RS3, subtract the number on the OSRS website from the number on the RS3 website.
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09-Oct-2018 16:59:30

Blackwing

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Miu said:
Fortunately, Jagex has finally provided us with some evidence :D And we can finally put to rest some faulty assumptions some have used to argue that RS3 somehow has a higher playerbase than OSRS.

http://file.finance.sina.com.cn/211.154.219.97:9494/MRGG/CNSESH_STOCK/2018/2018-6/2018-06-02/4491886.PDF

According to this, both runescapes have a total of ~765,400 members.

According to the Runefest OSRS presentation, OSRS has 550,000 members.


OSRS accounts for 70% of the total membership.
RS3 accounts for 30%.

94k concurrent players total as of right now.
68k on OSRS. 26k RS3.

72% of the concurrent playercount is OSRS.
28% of the concurrent playercount is RS3.

Is this consistent with our findings using the active playercount? Absolutely, a margin of difference of only 2%, which could be attributed to bots if you wish.

So
70% of the playerbase is OSRS in both concurrent playerbase and in total subscribers.
But only 30% RS3?
Why?

Probably TH. You can debate that. But you can no longer believe or debate that RS3 somehow is more popular through pitiful mental gymnastics, lest you ignore mod rowley and the rest of Jagex :D

Idk how you found that PDF, but yeah, it does paint the picture that OSRS isn't just doing better for the online player counter, but for the member count as well. Doesn't surprise me at all tbh: P2W games might do well short term, but in the long term, game integrity is what makes a successful game, for which the RS3/OSRS comparison is a testament. > )

Cheers!
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19-Oct-2018 10:47:52

Blackwing

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Joch said:
I remember a time in what is now rs3 feeling like I've accomplished something in the game when I got a 99 or something along those lines. I recently got 99 runecrafting by just logging in and using daily keys from around 92, I got it and was like ......Oh that's it. There is no sense of achievement left the whole game just feels kind of pointless now. I play osrs and all that rs3 used to have is still there you actually feel like playing it because you get something from it. Not mindless xp and gold thrown at you and promos shoved in your face. Rs3 is dying and I don't see a way back the mtx has ruined the experience it's just a pay to win or don't play it at all just take free gp/xp over time. What a shame.

Yeah, I used to have the goal of 200m exp in all skills in RS3, but after Jagex kept pushing the handouts like TH to no end, eventually (although way late) I realized that there wasn't any point to doing it, because it wasn't a challenge at all and legitimate competition was dead, in favor of allowing whales to unload their wallets to TH. It really sucks, because I used to adore RS3, even after all the big controversies like EoC, and I still could, if only Jagex started caring about the game integrity again. > /
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19-Oct-2018 10:57:22

Blackwing

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Miu said:
137k /r/runescape subscribers
2,300 online.

255k /r/2007scape subscribers
8,600 online.

I think it should also be added that /r/runescape was created on April 2009, whilst r/2007scape was created on February 2013, so the RS3 subreddit has had roughly 4 more years time to accumulate subscribers, and probably has more "dead" subscribers too (people that have stayed subbed but don't care about the subscription anymore, such as people quitting to OSRS or completely; I don't know how big of a problem dead subs are on Reddit overall, but on Youtube many old channels have enormous subscriber numbers in comparison to the actual views on new videos that they get anymore, even if the channel only focuses around one type of videos), which would explain why OSRS's subreddit is so many times more active, even though they're only about twice the size in subscriber count.

(Inb4 "half of the people active on OSRS's subreddit are bots!".)

---

And yeah, like Miu explained, there is no hiscore for OSRS that works similarly to RS3's weekly/monthly exp hiscores. I wish there was, but until/if that happens, comparing to a harsh PvP game mode that most OSRS players don't care about is comic at best.


Miu said:
The PDF is courtesy of dilbert :)

Oh, I didn't expect people to still play themselves. > )
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19-Oct-2018 18:39:33

Blackwing

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Since Jagex is apparently a member of the "Fair Play Alliance", which allegedly doesn't tolerate cheating in video games, it's even more imperative now to get rid of Treasure Hunter, which is exactly that: cheating with your real life wallet! > )


David James said:
Besides, it's not like there wasn't already illegitimate P2W/MTX in the form of RWT (especially rampant at the highest level of players) already. All Jagex did was make it easier/safer/cheaper for the regular player whilst taking a cut for themselves.

You make it sound like Jagex barely contributed to the issue of P2W by offering their own Treasure Hunter service, but it's quite the opposite:

RWTers, whether those that offered bots or already-trained accounts to willing buyers, had to use the same legitimate training methods as the legitimate players, meaning that both RWTers and legitimate players had to put in the same amount of in-game playtime to reach the same goal (assuming the exact same method was used).

With Treasure Hunter, it is the absolute fastest method of in-game hours to reach a skill level goal, and it's impossible to fight against the real whales that unload excessive amounts of money at TH, since they won't even risk getting banned. Against bots, you could still beat them in the long term as they'd get banned eventually and you both had to use the same legitimate methods, and even against people buying legitimately trained accounts, they can get banned for RWT and the real account owner can recover the account back from whom they "sold" it to.

--

Regarding everything else, to keep it short, if you let MTX fester, sooner or later it'll get even worse and you wished you hadn't let it spread further. Ironmen might be a target next to sell P2W MTX to (Jagex could find a way), or more and more content might get extra monetized beyond just membership.
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27-Jan-2019 09:05:51

Blackwing

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Looks like another glimpse of hope just appeared for RS3 without Treasure Hunter; EA, one of the most famous gaming companies in the world, was forced to remove loot boxes in FIFA for Belgium players. If a company like EA can be forced to take down its loot boxes, a company like Jagex won't stand a chance when similarly confronted.

For obvious reasons, it'd be much better for everyone if Jagex woke up and voluntarily removed Treasure Hunter, since the company houses some devs who truly love their work and would want to make a great game over endless greed, but if not, it's quite clear that sooner or later, Treasure Hunter will be removed, even if due to regulations.

I can't wait to see a more brighter chapter in Runescape's history again!! > )
The Runescape Witcher
|| Arclight for demons | Ghrazi rapier for humans and monsters

29-Jan-2019 17:04:46

Blackwing

Blackwing

Posts: 38,137Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Draco Burnz said:
Blackwing said:
Since Jagex is apparently a member of the "Fair Play Alliance", which allegedly doesn't tolerate cheating in video games, it's even more imperative now to get rid of Treasure Hunter, which is exactly that: cheating with your real life wallet! > )


TFW th isnt "cheating".

Definition of "cheat":

cheatDictionary result for cheat
/CHēt/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: cheating
1.
act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination.
"she always cheats at cards"
2.
avoid (something undesirable) by luck or skill.
"she cheated death in a spectacular crash"

And? How does you digging up the definition of "cheat" prove that?
The Runescape Witcher
|| Arclight for demons | Ghrazi rapier for humans and monsters

11-Feb-2019 23:28:44

Blackwing

Blackwing

Posts: 38,137Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Doorknob747 said:
Blackwing said:
Draco Burnz said:
Blackwing said:
Since Jagex is apparently a member of the "Fair Play Alliance", which allegedly doesn't tolerate cheating in video games, it's even more imperative now to get rid of Treasure Hunter, which is exactly that: cheating with your real life wallet! > )


TFW th isnt "cheating".

Definition of "cheat":

cheatDictionary result for cheat
/CHēt/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: cheating
1.
act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination.
"she always cheats at cards"
2.
avoid (something undesirable) by luck or skill.
"she cheated death in a spectacular crash"

And? How does you digging up the definition of "cheat" prove that?


Suggestion to Blackwing.................Make another thread discussing if TH is cheating or not. The discussion over if TH is cheating or not has nothing currently to do with the OP's main topic. If the other discussion decides that TH is cheating then please bring that back up hear. Other wise this thread has like derailed and is currently heading towards nowhere.

I mean if it bothers you that I responded to Draco instead of ignoring it, sure, I'll just drop the conversation if you want, and Draco can make a thread about TH & cheating in particular if he wants. But my post about FPA is still very much on-topic, since it's another reason to remove TH.
The Runescape Witcher
|| Arclight for demons | Ghrazi rapier for humans and monsters

11-Feb-2019 23:50:36

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