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Game Integrity - Umbral Chests

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Blackwing
Nov Member 2012

Blackwing

Posts: 38,114Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
TLDR - Please remove umbral chests from the Twitch Prime offer and never bring them back.

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From today's news post:

Original message details are unavailable.
TWITCH PRIME
Love is in the air this Valentine’s Day, and we intend to prove our devotion to Twitch Prime members by offering the most precious of gifts – the Twitch Prime Valentines Pack!

Starting tomorrow (Tuesday February 5th), Twitch Prime users who link their RuneScape account will get 14 days of free membership to both RuneScape and Old School, plus:

The exclusive Amara Outfit
The exclusive Chinchompa Plushie
2 Umbral Chests (guaranteed super-rare prizes)

15 Treasure Hunter Keys
40 Hearts of Ice
200 RuneCoins


In case you don't know what umbral chests give, their loot includes:

1. 200m gp (+ other items that can be sold for gp)
2. Combat equipment T70-T80
3. Various exp items (exp lamps, proteans, silverhawk feathers etc.)

The issue:

All of the above are harmful to the game's integrity; 200m gp handouts add to the game's inflation, combat equipment handouts devalue the content wherein you'd normally earn those items, and exp handouts ruin the hiscores and powercreep the game to a point where everyone has access to everything, defeating the point of earning something exclusive for your hard work (e.g. a moneymaker that is going to be much less effective when everyone can do it, due to such increased supply).

The solution:

Remove the umbral chests from the game permanently. All they do is harm the game's economy in various ways (depending on which rewards you get from them), and encourage the player who used the chests to be lazy (since they were given such a handout).
The Runescape Witcher
|| Arclight for demons | Ghrazi rapier for humans and monsters

04-Feb-2019 12:10:55

Blackwing
Nov Member 2012

Blackwing

Posts: 38,114Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
EDIT: As of 18/February/2019, umbral chests are now also given for each 450 key package you buy, with no limit as to how many times you can buy them. This just further adds to the damage: please removal the umbral chests, Jagex! :(
The Runescape Witcher
|| Arclight for demons | Ghrazi rapier for humans and monsters

04-Feb-2019 12:11:07 - Last edited on 18-Feb-2019 11:06:58 by Blackwing

Azyezl
Aug Member 2017

Azyezl

Posts: 4,395Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I am one of the lucky winners of that said 200m :D

I won it on t.h back in 2014.

It. Was. Awesome!
---]-
Fight The Dead
~
Fear The Living
-[---

Neebs
Gaming

04-Feb-2019 12:20:31

Rikornak
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 5,231Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I mean - checking that list for tradeables: https://runescape.wiki/w/Umbral_chest

- 200m are something that exists in theory - but that's it. It could be awarded, but the number of players who will gain it will be extremely low. I mean big deal if someone wins that, a promotion that spills out smaller amounts of cash continously (e.g. feather gathering now) is certainly more damaging. Even ingame content that spills out cash drops (either literally or in the form of alchables) is likely to be more damaging for the economy.
- The remainder are tradeable tokens (which are worthless anyway) and silverhawk feathers and springs. Big deal I guess...

This of course is just respecting you're actually getting a tradeable and not some cosmetic you just haven't obtained in its initial promotion - or even a junk reward like proteans or rare item tokens.
Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

04-Feb-2019 12:22:45 - Last edited on 04-Feb-2019 12:28:10 by Rikornak

Nibbles Z
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2018

Nibbles Z

Posts: 42Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Wouldn't be so bad if it were just cosmetic TH items really.. Idk, I feel the integrity of the normal-mode game has already been significantly compromised at this point anyway.

Would be nice if they could tone it back a little though, but otherwise ironman or OSRS seems to be the safe zone from it.

04-Feb-2019 12:30:58

Blackwing
Nov Member 2012

Blackwing

Posts: 38,114Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Rikornak said:
I mean - checking that list for tradeables: https://runescape.wiki/w/Umbral_chest

- 200m are something that exists in theory - but that's it. It could be awarded, but the number of players who will gain it will be extremely low. I mean big deal if someone wins that, a promotion that spills out small amounts of cash is certainly more damaging. Even ingame content that spills out cash drops (either literally or in the form of alchables) is likely to be more damaging for the economy.
- The remainder are tradeable tokens (which are worthless anyway) and silverhawk feathers and springs. Big deal I guess...

This of course is just respecting you're actually getting a tradeable and not some cosmetic you just haven't obtained in its initial promotion - or even a junk reward like proteans or rare item tokens.

It's really sad to see how some people have come to excuse bad game design under the guise that "well <something else> is more damaging than this"; it doesn't change the fact that this is harmful to the game too and should be fixed.

Not everyone is going to win the 200m prize for example, sure, but if you remember from the last time these chests were in play, several people still did win it, resulting in billions of gp being injected to the game for no good reason. Jagex's social media team was even stupid enough to promote someone winning the 200m prize on tutorial island as a good thing, even though it just makes the game look like a joke.

And remember: everything adds up over time. This isn't the first time Jagex has released umbral chests, and if it doesn't stop, over the years dozens of billions of gp will be injected to the game, even though such injections had no good reason to be there. Money should be earned, not handed out like candy. If you hand it out like it's worth nothing, it's going to be worth nothing.
The Runescape Witcher
|| Arclight for demons | Ghrazi rapier for humans and monsters

04-Feb-2019 12:34:27

Blackwing
Nov Member 2012

Blackwing

Posts: 38,114Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Nibbles Z said:
Wouldn't be so bad if it were just cosmetic TH items really.. Idk, I feel the integrity of the normal-mode game has already been significantly compromised at this point anyway.

Would be nice if they could tone it back a little though, but otherwise ironman or OSRS seems to be the safe zone from it.

Even if you play an ironman or OSRS, you still shouldn't accept this -- if Jagex stops caring about the game integrity elsewhere (regular mode RS3), what's to stop them from spreading that bad game design to RS3 ironman mode or even OSRS?

Hell, RS3 ironmen were given ridiculous bonuses with the recent winter weekends, which previously wasn't possible; just goes to show that if you accept bad game design, things will get progressively worse and worse.
The Runescape Witcher
|| Arclight for demons | Ghrazi rapier for humans and monsters

04-Feb-2019 12:37:33

Rikornak
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 5,231Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Blackwing said:
Not everyone is going to win the 200m prize for example, sure, but if you remember from the last time these chests were in play, several people still did win it, resulting in billions of gp being injected to the game for no good reason. Jagex's social media team was even stupid enough to promote someone winning the 200m prize on tutorial island as a good thing, even though it just makes the game look like a joke.


My point is not 'Not everyone is going to win the 200m prize', my point is it will barely be won at all. My point is take the valkyrie feathers promotion for instance - 500 feathers are a fairly good chance at 10k - and still a decently enough one for 100k - and a chance still way higher (and I mean by more than just 200x times the odds) to win 1m.

Second big difference - the amount of players who will be able to claim the umbral chests will be much, much lower - and those who'll get it will get exactly 2 chances.

I dare to say those two factors alone will be the reason why Valkyrie feathers will generate significantly more coins.

Third: Are you salty as well if a new player gets and does his first hard treasure trail and draws out a dye from it? I mean - they must get an unjustified amount of coins (even though it won't be generated) as well for no other reason than sheer luck.

To be honest - if you're so afraid of the economy, gold sinks and so on you should ask for getting most cash drops and stuff that solely exists to be alched getting removed. That will have much more impact than those chests. If you think it actually is fine and the game economy is able to handle this, it should also be able to handle the influx of some one-digit billion amount of coins as well.
Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

04-Feb-2019 12:44:55 - Last edited on 04-Feb-2019 13:07:11 by Rikornak

Blackwing
Nov Member 2012

Blackwing

Posts: 38,114Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Rikornak said:
My point is not 'Not everyone is going to win the 200m prize', my point is it will barely be won at all. My point is take the valkyrie feathers promotion for instance - 500 feathers are a fairly good chance at 10k - and still a decently enough one for 100k - and a chance still way higher (and I mean by more than just 200x times the odds) to win 1m.

Second big difference - the amount of players who will be able to claim the umbral chests will be much, much lower - and those who'll get it will get exactly 2 chances.

I dare to say those two factors alone will be the reason why Valkyrie feathers will generate significantly more coins.

I agree that the Valkyrie event was bad for the game, I even made a thread about it, but with all this said, how does bashing the Valkyrie event justify these chests? Both are bad for the game, both should be fixed. It doesn't matter which one is more damaging to the game, because both of them damage the game. And everything adds up; when you have enough many smaller damages, eventually they make up a bigger damage than an individual instance.


Rikornak said:
Third: Are you salty as well if a new player gets and does his first hard treasure trail and draws out a dye from it? I mean - they must get an unjustified amount of coins (even though it won't be generated) as well for no other reason than sheer luck.

No. Treasure trails are an immersive part of the game, where you work to solve the clue and get a reward for doing so, which is sometimes the jackpot. With these chests, you don't even need to leave the tutorial island to win 200m gp, like one individual proved in the previous promotion. You don't play the game to earn the chests, you just buy Twitch Prime.
The Runescape Witcher
|| Arclight for demons | Ghrazi rapier for humans and monsters

04-Feb-2019 13:11:44

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