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M&S, what I would add.

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Sassychassis
Jun Gold Premier Club Member 2015

Sassychassis

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It may not be totally realistic for mining rocks to never deplete as in the M&S beta & rework plan, but it doesn't bother me that much.

It isn't entirely realistic for mining rocks to 'regrow' their metallic crystals over time either, which is how they work now. The actual 'rocks' that the crystals are in are never broken down/disappear, piles of waste rock are never created, and ore deposits are never permanently exhausted in RS3 either.

In the real world, as easy resources are depleted, humanity tends to develop better technologies to extract more difficult varieties of the same resource (or switch to some alternate material that has similar properties).

Soooo, the "lack of depletion being unrealistic" isn't enough of an issue for me to bother with getting it changed. No support, sorry. :(

:)
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^_^ Member on 5-June-2015 after 10 years & 8 months f2p.

15-Mar-2018 06:09:44

Nawty Psycho
Sep Gold Premier Club Member 2017

Nawty Psycho

Posts: 614Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Dr Esa said:
I meant due to the fact that ores deplete, there won't be necessarily a huge influx of resources in the market because you'll have a ton of people fighting over the same resource. While there will be a high demand of people trying to buy that resource.


But everyone can mine the same rock and get multiple ores from it anyways. It would be similar to harmed rocks.
I don't trust easily, so when I tell you I trust you, don't make me regret it.

15-Mar-2018 11:44:03

Serene Steel
Sep Gold Premier Club Member 2015

Serene Steel

Posts: 11,609Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Nawty Psycho said:
Dr Esa said:
I meant due to the fact that ores deplete, there won't be necessarily a huge influx of resources in the market because you'll have a ton of people fighting over the same resource. While there will be a high demand of people trying to buy that resource.


But everyone can mine the same rock and get multiple ores from it anyways. It would be similar to harmed rocks.


But the way ores work currently with harmonised ores (and rune in particular, since it's Lv85 and the closest to being what Elder Rune is going to be, level-wise) being a thing is that every 1 ore you get makes 1 bar (plus a handful of coal you'll most likely get from killing mobs), and 16 bars makes a set and you're done.

The way it works then is 3 ore makes 1 bar and you can only get those ores from Mining. And it takes a minute and a half to mine all three ores. It then takes 16 bars makes a basic set, and then another 16 bars to make it +1, another 32 bars to make it +2, another 64 bars to make it +3, another 128 bars to make it +4, and another 256 bars to make it +5.

EDIT: The mining alone takes 10+ hours. So...
The Steelweaver

World Guardian #835
Maxed 9/7/2016
120 Smithing 1/4/2019

15-Mar-2018 15:56:57 - Last edited on 15-Mar-2018 16:03:57 by Serene Steel

Nawty Psycho
Sep Gold Premier Club Member 2017

Nawty Psycho

Posts: 614Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Serene Steel said:
Nawty Psycho said:
Dr Esa said:
I meant due to the fact that ores deplete, there won't be necessarily a huge influx of resources in the market because you'll have a ton of people fighting over the same resource. While there will be a high demand of people trying to buy that resource.


But everyone can mine the same rock and get multiple ores from it anyways. It would be similar to harmed rocks.


But the way ores work currently with harmonised ores (and rune in particular, since it's Lv85 and the closest to being what Elder Rune is going to be, level-wise) being a thing is that every 1 ore you get makes 1 bar (plus a handful of coal you'll most likely get from killing mobs), and 16 bars makes a set and you're done.

The way it works then is 3 ore makes 1 bar and you can only get those ores from Mining. And it takes a minute and a half to mine all three ores. It then takes 16 bars makes a basic set, and then another 16 bars to make it +1, another 32 bars to make it +2, another 64 bars to make it +3, another 128 bars to make it +4, and another 256 bars to make it +5.

EDIT: The mining alone takes 10+ hours. So...


I don't get what your point is...
I don't trust easily, so when I tell you I trust you, don't make me regret it.

16-Mar-2018 09:29:20

Serene Steel
Sep Gold Premier Club Member 2015

Serene Steel

Posts: 11,609Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
One single set of Rune Armor currently takes about hour to make if you're lucky in finding 16 ores across multiple worlds and mining your ores
You only need 16 ores and 128 coal to make a full set and nine times out of ten you didn't mine the coal yourself, you went out and slaughtered a mob that drops a ton of it. General Graardor, Gregorovic, Automatons, Giant Ant Workers, whatever.

If you DID mine the coal yourself, lets assume it's 15 seconds to get a single coal (obviously inaccurate but it's half the time it would take to mine any of the Elder Rune component ores). You'd be spending 32 minutes just mining coal not counting moving around.

That's the current system. 144 ores to make a single armor set in about an hour and you're done.
Right now though you don't even need to go mine your own ores. Mobs drop copious amounts of the ores required, so you can cut that time to about 7 minutes.
The gear you've also made is a nice trashy lv50 armor that nobody uses.


Upcoming, the gear you're making requires 1,536 ores, taking roughly 30 seconds to mine (as long as you're paying attention, at that!) each ore. The only source of this ore is from Mining it. No mob drops 5-30 at a time, there's no massive backstock of it from years of injection.

You're going to take those 1,536 ores, smelt them together into 512 bars, and take another hour or two to forge them into a set of armor (and it's faster if you pay attention!).
Very usable armor, at that. Probably sitting somewhere in the 80-88 range.


What I'm saying is that keeping a system in place that encourages you to move around when it's taking ~13 hours to make the full set with 12.8 hours just being the mining, isn't going to encourage what you think it will encourage.
The Steelweaver

World Guardian #835
Maxed 9/7/2016
120 Smithing 1/4/2019

16-Mar-2018 14:09:50 - Last edited on 16-Mar-2018 14:18:46 by Serene Steel

Serene Steel
Sep Gold Premier Club Member 2015

Serene Steel

Posts: 11,609Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Because, lets face it, if they're as rare as rune rocks are now what with only 14 in the world total you're going to hop worlds instead of trekking halfway across the world for a new rock.


What I'm saying is that the current system doesn't encourage anything good. You're still going to have dead mining areas because people will just find the rock that has the closest teleport to it. They'll take that teleport, their bank teleport (Tokkul-Zo, anybody? Attuned crystal teleport seed?), a good pickaxe, and their ore bag. Mine one rock until it depletes, hop to the next world and continue until they fill up their inventory. Then they'll teleport out, bank, and teleport back in.


The only difference this new system brings in?


You won't spend an extra hour hopping from world to world. Because there's literally zero reason for anybody to have to do that except for artificial difficulty in obtaining the resources.


What I'm saying is that your suggestion, while well meaning, brings nothing to the table that's positive to the actual gameplay factor of this game.
The Steelweaver

World Guardian #835
Maxed 9/7/2016
120 Smithing 1/4/2019

16-Mar-2018 14:16:35

Nawty Psycho
Sep Gold Premier Club Member 2017

Nawty Psycho

Posts: 614Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
You mentioned killing bosses and mobs for ores - but who would care about smithing rune armour at that point in the game?!?!?!!!

Someone made calculations on how long it would take to smith T90 elder rune armour set and it was over 13 hours I believe, maybe double that? (don't quote me). But anyways, I don't think Jagex will only place so small amount of elder runite around Gielinor. Also, rock dying after an hour of being mined isn't game breaking.
This content will be super hype for first few weeks and then people will lose interests. I can imagine people having 10 alts (or bots) mining elder runite 10 hours a day. They won't have to even move from spots, because rocks NEVER deplete. Now this is game breaking.
I don't trust easily, so when I tell you I trust you, don't make me regret it.

17-Mar-2018 18:58:17

Serene Steel
Sep Gold Premier Club Member 2015

Serene Steel

Posts: 11,609Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Nawty Psycho said:
You mentioned killing bosses and mobs for ores - but who would care about smithing rune armour at that point in the game?!?!?!!


Simple - all the people who focus on combat stats first because it's faster to train all non-combat skills post-combat versus pre-combat.

Everybody with a brain knows the fastest way to level up your non-combat skills nowadays is to invest in combat skills. Faster gp gain = faster leveling.

Nawty Psycho said:

Someone made calculations on how long it would take to smith T90 elder rune armour set and it was over 13 hours I believe, maybe double that? (don't quote me). But anyways, I don't think Jagex will only place so small amount of elder runite around Gielinor. Also, rock dying after an hour of being mined isn't game breaking.


The calculations currently are that a +5 Elder Rune Set (T90 with ~T85 stats) takes about an hour to smith. The 12 hours are simply mining ores.

If you mean the Masterwork Armor then it's a level 90 Power Armor requiring 99 Smithing, gives token xp, and currently requires a good 13 hours to smith AND 16 of every bar bronze through elder rune. This is separate from the Elder Rune armor previously mentioned.

And no, a rock dying after one hour isn't game breaking. But if it's an hour, again, why even have it at all? All it does is encourage hopping, not moving around the game world. A 10 second hop vs a ~1 minute trek.
The Steelweaver

World Guardian #835
Maxed 9/7/2016
120 Smithing 1/4/2019

18-Mar-2018 04:18:26

Serene Steel
Sep Gold Premier Club Member 2015

Serene Steel

Posts: 11,609Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
To cover your last point:
IMO, someone having a strong enough PC to run ten clients at once, keeping an eye on login timers, AND getting the levels to do that across their accounts is a non-factor. Bots get banned often enough that, yes, they have an effect on the economy, it's nowhere near as bad as it used to be or is made out to be.

Most people would point out that bots drag down the price of items that people deem undesirable or tedious to gather. I would point out that high level PvM drops larger quantities of those items in a shorter period of time than any single bot could bring in over the course of 24 hours through traditional methods.

Not paying attention to a mining location results in a 25% reduction in item generation and xp AND missed Rockertunities. It's inefficient for the common player.



It's a non-factor because people do that now anyways with Fishing, right? You know what brings in the most Rocktails?
PvM.
You know who uses the most Rocktails?
PvMers.
Rocktails are a prime example of what's wrong.

Sailfish are new, however. They behave much like what the Smithing update will. High level fish, debatably better than what's here, and taking a longer time to obtain than what we have already (the catchrate for Sailfish is noticeably lower than Rocktails for only 100lp more).

People can alt and bot sailfish, yeah. They're nodes that never deplete and never have any competition, and they're currently what, 500gp more than Rocktails?
Rocktails dropped a good 800gp when Deep Sea Fishing came out and I'm assuming it's safe to say they've stabilized at their new price now. (Emphasis on assuming.)

Sailfish, on the other hand, are seeming to sit around where Rocktails were previously. Their only source, right now, are skillers and bots (and I say bots just to humor everyone).
The people who devote themselves to gathering those materials.

From my point of view, Sailfish are a fine example of the negligible impact of the botters and alts you propose.
The Steelweaver

World Guardian #835
Maxed 9/7/2016
120 Smithing 1/4/2019

18-Mar-2018 04:36:34

Nawty Psycho
Sep Gold Premier Club Member 2017

Nawty Psycho

Posts: 614Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Original message details are unavailable.
(the catchrate for Sailfish is noticeably lower than Rocktails for only 100lp more)

Sailfish is about 50-100 fish more per hour than Rocktails.

As for Jagex banning bots fast enough - simply not true. There are about 20-30 Air rune bots in the default log-in world (you know the world, that is automatically assigned to you). They all follow the same pattern, but takes weeks for them to get banned. Some are even near 80+ Runecrafting.

Similar thing with Wine of Zamorak. There will be bots mining elder runite after M&S...

But we're getting off topic...
I don't trust easily, so when I tell you I trust you, don't make me regret it.

18-Mar-2018 08:36:01 - Last edited on 18-Mar-2018 08:36:28 by Nawty Psycho

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