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Kimi Mela

Kimi Mela

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My fear is that if it's locked behind endgame, only people who have already made up their minds what they think of Armadyl will ever play it. The majority of lore on Armadyl is the opinions of NPCs who are suspicious of him or don't like him to begin with, and if another world event involving Armadyl rolls around, there's nothing keeping him off the chopping block. So in my view, there absolutely needs to be early game content for people to get to really know Armadyl by. I'm okay with it being a smaller quest that comes out before Rite of Passage, even if it delays its release (I have no clue when I'll eventually beat Endgame, so yeah. Any chance you could lower the difficulty level? :P )

If the pre-RoP content is the TAPP project you discussed a while ago, I'd be happy with that. As long as it's enough to give newer players who haven't chosen their allegiance yet a chance to get to know what Armadyl is really about, and not just what the other gods think. That's what's most essential in my view. This could also establish it as a line of quests and not simply a one-off thing. Like the Dorgeshuun quest series, but with Aviansie.

27-Jun-2018 17:29:54

Takara
Jun Gold Premier Club Member 2011

Takara

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Right. So.

I more agree with Option 2 (if we’re just limiting it to those two options—remember, people, there are other valid options to argue here). It sounds a LOT less painful than Option 1, which has all the cons and almost none of the pros. I’d also argue that we should have at least gotten a mini/bottlequest or something before Endgame, but that ship has not only sailed, it vanished over the horizon a long time ago, and we haven't heard from it again so it probably also sank or got captured by pirates.

I would also want something that perhaps cannot be delivered: a guarantee that RoP would very shortly be following the mini/bottlequest, similar to how we know for sure that we’re getting Elite Dungeons 2 and 3 (or rather, that they are already on the schedule). Being on the schedule doesn't preclude short-term delays due to unforseen circumstances, of course, but it lets us know you are really committed to this. I don't want to get just the miniquest, and then have to wait upwards of half a decade again for the "main event."

I do think we need some buildup before we are thrust into Abbinah; however, I will reiterate that I plain DO NOT want to wait super long for RoP after that. If Jagex had no problem in having the buildup to Endgame (starting with Nomad's Elegy) and Endgame itself within the same year, and if Jagex was okay with releasing River of Blood right on the heels of Lord of Vampyrium, there should be NO complaints about releasing a bottle quest and then RoP.
F/K/A The Aviansie. Still not just any old Aviansie!

Rite of Passage.

27-Jun-2018 18:17:02

Takara
Jun Gold Premier Club Member 2011

Takara

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Of course, another option is "Sixth Age Season 2".

We have to consider that we're going to be having the same arguments about Death of Chivalry 2, Elder Gods quest(s), and so on, especially if these quests are otherwise not going to feature combat on par with or more intense than Sliske's Endgame, and if they are also not going to have skill level requirements on par with or higher than what is required for Sliske's Endgame (it might not require very high skill levels in and of itself, but it does require a few quests that do).

Sixth Age Season 2 might be the best option. The lore community might not like it, as it would do little more than shout “SPOILERS FOR PAST QUESTS AHEAD!” as a way of forcing players to play the quests in order. To go back to the ship analogy, it has already sailed, and we watched in horror as this one hit some rocks and sank when we didn't require RotM for TWW. However, this is the best compromise I can think of, and you won't be able to please everyone no matter what you do.

Perhaps the best option really is just to go forth with the design as planned. It sucks and I don't like it, but the alternatives really don't sound much better. Sorry guys, I tried. :(
F/K/A The Aviansie. Still not just any old Aviansie!

Rite of Passage.

27-Jun-2018 18:17:23

Melanion

Melanion

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To be honest, what I really think is required is an Armadyl introductory quest.
A quest that setups the character, the faction, and the ideals similar to what Death of Chivalry did for Saradomin, and what Dishonour among Thieves did for Zamorak.

This does NOT have to be RoP. In fact, I have a very good idea on what this quest could be.
At the end of Armadyl's world event, he said he would find a new home for his people in Gielinor. I think a good introductory quest would be the player helping to setup such a settlement. Introducing Armadyl's ideals and the Aviansie culture beforehand, and then expanding upon it, and tying it all up as part of the main storyline when we go to Abbinah post-endgame.

That would satisfy me, the Endgame requirement is only a problem if RoP is the first Armadyl quest released. More time could also be saved if an existing area is used for the Aviansie colony...Eagle's peak would be a good place, it's remote, not much content takes place there, and it's already Avian themed.

And to anyone saying people can just do Endgame...Sure I'm close to being able to do it, but consider this...For a new player who just joined, how do you think it'd feel to have to grind for months (years if it's someone with a life) to even experience Armadyl content? I'm not 12 anymore, I have a life to take care of, I can't sit here and grind skills all night.

All major gods should at least have a medium level quest introducing them.

27-Jun-2018 18:26:39 - Last edited on 27-Jun-2018 19:07:29 by Melanion

Sepulchre
Feb Gold Premier Club Member 2019

Sepulchre

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How about option 3: Make the lazy players do Endgame if they want to do Rite of Passage, don't waste development time on another quest, and tell them to get over it.

Seriously, you do realize that 90% of the people who complain about quests being locked behind things are would-be comp'ers who have Endgame done by now anyway? Why is this even an issue?
A
World Guardian
must learn to find
Balance
in themselves.
Only then can they
Control
themselves and forge their own
Fate.

27-Jun-2018 18:47:39

Perseus
Apr Gold Premier Club Member 2010

Perseus

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Without a doubt option 2.

If possible, I'd prefer Rite of Passage to touch on the things mentioned in Endgame and have it as a suggested requirement, maybe with a flash back to Armadyl and Seren talking at the Tower of Voices. Usually I'd be against quests not needing requirements that fit the story, although it's possible to play Endgame and not even get the interaction and Endgame is such a large quest with the highest requirements of all quests.

If the options are down to rewriting ROP to not involve aspects mentioned in Endgame, or for it to still require Endgame but have a smaller more accisible quest first, it has to be the 2nd option as it'd be such a waste for the Seren interactions to not be there.

27-Jun-2018 18:50:33

LothTikar
Jan Gold Premier Club Member 2019

LothTikar

Posts: 35Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Personally, I like option 2, but I'd prefer it if Endgame was simply a very strong recommendation rather than a hard requirement, sort of like recommended quests for The World Wakes. I think the separate mid-level quest is great, as I remember the original pitch being a mid-level, so I'd appreciate having a quest with some Armadyl lore not walled behind a quest that I may not get to for a very long time.

On an unrelated note: I know that the lore is scattered about both in and out of game and some old lore is no longer canon, so I propose that publishing an "RS Lore Bible" or the like every three years or so would be a great way to bring all the lore together in an up-to-date form.

27-Jun-2018 18:51:38

The Mather1
May Gold Premier Club Member 2008

The Mather1

Posts: 1,150Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'm in favour of option 2.

To begin with, I'm fundamentally opposed to the recent mindset of avoiding endgame quest requirements. A huge part of what makes quests in RuneScape great is that fact that we have long overarching quest series that tell a much grander story than any individual quest could do on its own. If players really won't play a quest because they haven't done the preceding ones, then that's on them, they obviously don't care about the story, so why should story content even try to cater to them?
"Abscondita est in Astra."

27-Jun-2018 18:54:17

Armadyn
Feb Member 2019

Armadyn

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My personal opinion is that Rite of Passage should follow on directly from Endgame, use the design you like Raven - the themes introduced in Endgame fit what we know of ROP very well. This quest deserves to be as big as possible, and following up from that story will help. A higher level also fits the harsh nature described to be Abbinah, to look at it from that perspective.

I don't think a low level quest should be made before ROP and delay it further, however. This feels like it would just be a distraction more than anything. If something is made before ROP it shouldn't delay ROP. That's priority 1 to me. I think the overall playerbase would be happy with a high level quest. See how it worked out for Elf City requiring a big series etc. It's a nice motivation. Also allows you to do more with Abbinah and rewards that will be relevant to players.

I understand ROP was at first meant to be intermediate but that was in 2013 and we've come a long way since then. With other quests filling the mid-levels, so I think it's fair to make this shift.
Rite of Passage

27-Jun-2018 19:01:38 - Last edited on 27-Jun-2018 19:04:10 by Armadyn

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