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Kimi Mela

Kimi Mela

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Well, the thing with the elven quests is they had a very long build-up leading to them. I think the attitude many of us have toward RoP, that is desiring for a big high-level quest right away, stems from us being used to having our requirements met already. I think, though it may be unpleasant, that having a longer line of quests would be the better choice in the long run. Think back to the Dorgeshuun too. That said, I'm not at all opposed to a big quest post-EG, preceded by a bottle quest, as I said before.

And Sepulchre, I suggest you speak for yourself.

27-Jun-2018 19:38:01

Takara
Jun Gold Premier Club Member 2011

Takara

Posts: 765Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I really do get the idea of wanting to make this quest be high level. After all, navigating the sky-islands and being able to dodge rocks, deal with rogue currents, and more would logically require a fairly high Agility level.

Still, I think this big quest should have been built up to, with a bottle quest, well before Endgame. Sadly, that won't happen now; we can't change the past. It may well just be best to go with the design we already have, I just fear that the backlash of having it require Endgame will be too strong and force Mod Raven to redesign. I'd rather get this question well and truly settled before it goes on the schedule only to have to be yanked or majorly overhauled due to some outcry. I'm not saying "throw the whole design out," but it would be very wise to make contingency plans here.

But I can't say strongly enough that if we get Option 2, we must get RoP right after the bottlequest. If that can't be guaranteed (in the same way that ED2 is "guaranteed," or that the quests of Sliske's Countdown were "guaranteed," for example), then sorry to those who can't do/haven't done Endgame, but I'd also rather they go forward with the design as it stands than get a small thing and have to wait way longer for that which we've already waited way, way, way too long. I think a preponderance of the posters here would agree to that, as they'll have already done Endgame.

Hopefully that makes my confusing position clear enough...
F/K/A The Aviansie. Still not just any old Aviansie!

Rite of Passage.

27-Jun-2018 19:59:03 - Last edited on 27-Jun-2018 21:35:40 by Takara

Rondstat

Rondstat

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I mean, the 6th Age timeline is already a big jumble. If a post-Endgame setup works best for the narrative, go with that, but don't include Endgame as a requirement, only a very strong suggestion.

Also, maybe a dev or two could put in some work on that long-awaited quest route/timeline interface?

27-Jun-2018 20:15:07

Tetsu Talon
Jun Gold Premier Club Member 2016

Tetsu Talon

Posts: 20Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
If RoP would be stronger for taking place after Endgame narratively, then I am definitely in support of that option. Opening the door to other content is simply a nice, theoretical bonus. So option 2 is definitively my answer.

Yet I have serious misgivings - for reasons that have nothing to do with RoP or any specific content - with tying an increasing number of quests to the out-of-control daisy chain of 'main quests' as pre-requisites simply because they follow those quests in the story. At the start of the Sixth Age a decision was made to not require Fifth Age quests for the newer age quests - regardless of what narrative links exist between them. This allowed lower level quests a space to grow without demanding a large quest chain that would have made a lower level quest rather pointless. It also gave players more choices of what quests to pursue as they gained levels. It was a good precedent to allow for this sort of narrative 'checkpoint.'

Unfortunately, with Children of Mah that effort was ultimately undone by making the whole God and Mahjarrat storyline require those heavy hitting Fifth Age quests (and all their prerequisites) once again. It's not clear why that reboot went out the window, or whether it was actually brought into consideration when working out the quest requirements. But it has the potential to set back quest accessibility and breadth of experience if Jagex developers cannot consider breaking the daisy chain once more.

27-Jun-2018 21:59:09

Dr Esa
Mar Member 2019

Dr Esa

Posts: 1,351Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'm confused on whether this idea is a series of Armadyl quests leading to the Endgame or will it just be one grandmaster quest that has Abbinah as a reward? I could go with either option 1 or 2. I have to say that lower level content should be somewhat offered. Also, if it were a chain of quests, would it be released in the beginning so that everyone can access Abbinah and the much better content would be provided to higher levels as they complete more quests in the series?

For lore purposes, I would like something new where the major area is provided right in the beginning and then the series starts.

28-Jun-2018 02:57:36 - Last edited on 28-Jun-2018 03:03:17 by Dr Esa

Armadyn
Feb Member 2019

Armadyn

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I understand there's not technically been a built-up Armadyl series, but is that necessary? ROP was always the big quest meant to go deep into these things, whether it happens at high level or low level doesn't matter too much does it? To add to that it would be off the back of the Sliske series which started with low level MPD, and that did seed the Aviansie story, and then follow it up in Endgame.

I didn't comment on the choices directly originally so I would just add:

I feel like both option 1 and 2 compromise too much and is not the right way to go about it. I really do hope this isn't the only alternatives for ROP going forward. I feel it should only be a matter of if the requirements are obligatory or suggested - if the Endgame version of ROP is Raven's favoured version.
Rite of Passage

28-Jun-2018 08:44:28 - Last edited on 28-Jun-2018 08:45:51 by Armadyn

Mod Raven

Mod Raven

Jagex Moderator Forum Profile Posts by user
Things to consider.

1. There's absolutely no way we could promise to do a small quest and then immediately follow with RoP. RoP is a big quest in scope and would require a lot of time to develop (I'm attempting to get as much of the groundwork done out of hours as possible, but its a long process).

2. Whilst I personally agree with the "season 2" idea, a large portion of the playerbase is not. Indeed we've had the discussion internally and it resulted in a lot of arguing and ultimately a statelmate. So it's a bigger question.

3. To be clear, RoP is NOT currently on the release schedule. So I wouldn't get too hung up on delays except to acknowledge that they will push the potential release date back (i.e if it were possible for us to get it done in Feb (it is NOT planned for then) a rewrite would push it back to March/April time at best etc.

4. Can you get what you want from an RoP buildup quest if it does not involve Abbinah? I.e if I created a chain of 3 quests (entirely theoretical, plucking things from nowhere) that went:
a) [SMALL] Novice - Introduce Armadyl and the aviansie briefly, let the player learn the basics of the philosophy. Begin the new guardians of Armadyl.
b) [SMALL-MEDIUM] Intermediate - Get to know the aviansie more. Learn some of the struggles they undergo and the conflicts within their society. Learn about the great storm rising on Abbinah.
c) [HUUUUUUUUUGE] Grandmaster - Rite of Passage - Visit Abbinah, see the ancestral home and learn some interesting things. Resolve the aviansie crisis (sort of).

Edit: Disclaimer, the release dates and things I've used here are just plucked out of thin air and should not be considered ANY indication of when RoP would get made.

= Raven =

28-Jun-2018 08:49:22 - Last edited on 28-Jun-2018 08:52:10 by Mod Raven

Armadyn
Feb Member 2019

Armadyn

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Regarding point 4... I would prefer to just go straight to Abbinah - and in this scenario I would mostly be waiting for the ROP quest - even though I would enjoy the other quests, certainly.

Ultimately I want you to go with what you personally think is best for ROP. I know a lot of player discussion has gone into this quest, but it's still your thing, and you're the one who knows the entire picture after all.
Rite of Passage

28-Jun-2018 09:28:22

Iceey
Jan Member 2017

Iceey

Posts: 6,607Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I want to go to Abbinah as much as anyone, but I think the main reason we are annoyed is because we haven't gotten a single quest about Armadyl.

Zaros, Bandos, Seren, Guthix, Zamorak, Saradomin.... all of them have had a quest. All the main gods and yet Armadyl still gets pushed to the side.

I honestly don't care about going to Abbinah, I just want a quest, even a bottle quest about Armadyl or the Aviansies. I don't care about Abbinah. I want lore about the Aviansies. I want some important Armadyl followers. And I just want more about Armadyl.

All the gods have some sort of main character follower. Armadyl's only major character was killed off by the Dragonkin. Yes he has another but right now, we don't know anything about her.

I'd rather have the chain of 3 quests.


Having a quest to form the new Guardian of Armadyl, since most were killed, just sounds amazing. I have always loved quests that gather a group of people together. Armadyl needs a quest so that newer players can learn more about him just like every important god.

Armadyl shouldn't be stuck behind a massive amount of Grandmasters and the whole Grandmaster chain of quests is just becoming infuriating.
Come the Sixth-Age, the world will need the World Guardian.

28-Jun-2018 12:25:28 - Last edited on 28-Jun-2018 12:28:08 by Iceey

Deltaslug

Deltaslug

Posts: 27,783Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Nm.
Was thinking about a Memory of Nomad sized thing to fill in low level gap to allow a focus on the big stuff (ie: try to use only existing assets, maybe rely on lore books over dialogue).
But doubting this would be any better than the dev required for a small quest + huge quest by thinking we sub a "small" for "really small".

28-Jun-2018 14:28:16 - Last edited on 28-Jun-2018 14:34:33 by Deltaslug

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