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Dev Blog - Mining & Smithing

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Miss Lioness
Nov Gold Premier Club Member 2011

Miss Lioness

Posts: 1,663Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Saint Arson said:

I'd rather have t70+ benefits now and the rest of the rework later.
I'd rather have the entire rework in one update, even if it takes longer.[/gold]


This is a bit conflicting. The top sentence is preferring for option 1 (the 'yes' vote) whilst the second one is more in line with option 2 (the 'no' vote), although with 1 difference, it would take shorter overall but with less actual updates till it is launched.

27-Aug-2017 22:07:01

Tamarac Elf
Apr Gold Premier Club Member 2007

Tamarac Elf

Posts: 1,206Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'm wondering why there has to be a new mining ore invented. Why not start combining, making stronger alloys, with runite and bane ore (higher level) or blurite (midish level) so smithers can make higher level weapons/armor to sell. They should be able to make something that competes with the stuff that's now only obtainable from bossing. The point is, use existing resources in new ways.

Just a thought ...
Appointed Leader of Old Goats
...
Baaaaaah!

27-Aug-2017 22:08:35

FlyingBlind
Apr Member 2016

FlyingBlind

Posts: 488Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Tamarac Elf said:
I'm wondering why there has to be a new mining ore invented. Why not start combining, making stronger alloys, with runite and bane ore (higher level) or blurite (midish level) so smithers can make higher level weapons/armor to sell. They should be able to make something that competes with the stuff that's now only obtainable from bossing. The point is, use existing resources in new ways.

Just a thought ...
What is this? Logic? Cant you tell logic has no place in the update? please refrain from posting any logic on this thread from now on please. People might read it and their heads might start to hurt and explode. We dont need that happening, thank you.
I want
Brains
, I want
liver
.
Moan Mix
,
Moan Mix
please Deliver!

27-Aug-2017 22:19:56

Boris D
Aug Gold Premier Club Member 2008

Boris D

Posts: 718Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Here's my view on this. Reworking these two fundamental skills is an enormous undertaking and one not to be made lightly. With that in mind, the fact that you even consider half assing this to push content out the door is pretty upsetting to someone who has been here for 15+ years. If you try to rush content out, then the downstream impact that you're MEANT to be considering of such a large-scale project will be neglected and will likely do more harm than good. Not to mention the actual fixing/rebalancing that should be embedded in this update could be pushed to god knows when. After all, as many others point out, look how long it's taken you to "finish" invention with a second batch after release date.

Personally, I'm hard-line no on this. You're just opening the door for what is likely to be at least a year of imbalanced imperfect half-assed content that I'd rather continue to do without than experience the madness that ensues from something that was jammed into a game improperly and does not belong.

27-Aug-2017 22:32:05

Dr Esa
Jul Member 2017

Dr Esa

Posts: 1,201Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
It's good to see Jmods actually read what people say and their complaints like the wording of polls. However, in order to make it truly fair, we players should be told exactly what future updates Jagex has in mind - or currently doing - that will be pushed back if a 100% entire rework is in favor. If its important stuff like combat, quests, and etc. then yeah I'll vote for "yes" meaning they should stick a bandaid on it and just release 70+ smithing content. If the updates they are reluctant to postpone are all shitty updates for boring skilling - then I'll vote no, and they should just spend more time on the MS rework.

27-Aug-2017 22:56:58

Gunjabi

Gunjabi

Posts: 1Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
To be honest I'd like a middle ground option here, I want the entire update ASAP but if you could release it in bite sized chunks to get the content out to us faster that would be perfect for me too. I want the 70+ stuff to be released soon, but I don't want the low level side of things to be put on the backburner because of it, especially since my Ironman is now at the level where his 41 smithing is useless even with his Attack and defence skills being in the low 30s.

28-Aug-2017 00:00:43

Hguoh
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2014

Hguoh

Posts: 6,777Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Tamarac Elf said:
I'm wondering why there has to be a new mining ore invented. Why not start combining, making stronger alloys, with runite and bane ore (higher level) or blurite (midish level) so smithers can make higher level weapons/armor to sell. They should be able to make something that competes with the stuff that's now only obtainable from bossing. The point is, use existing resources in new ways.

Just a thought ...


One thing brought up by Jmods during the design process of the rework was the creation of alternate 'coals' for all metals above mithril. The reason for this was attributed to coal being use in such large quantities in higher level metals that it was rendered disproportionately expensive for the production low level metals it is first used in. It also put a tight restriction on Smithing training methods due to the large amount of space coal takes up in the inventory when it came to higher level metals.

The use of large amounts of coal also posed an issue for the Mining side of things. If one were to train Smithing with the products of their Mining, they'd need to mine large amounts of a resource that gives low amounts of xp and takes up quite a lot of time in order to process their higher level ores, which runs counter intuitive to the idea that one should unlock and utilize faster training methods as they unlock them.

The Living Rock Cavern's concentrated coal deposits relieves some of these issues, but it was viewed as a treatment of a symptom of the problem and not a full solution. It was proposed that new 'coals' (named Imcandum, Dragon's Blood, and Thanous) would be introduced for the production of metals above Adamant, while coal itself would receive some other additional use (ex: speeding up the Smithing process or being convertible to the newer coals similar to Divination's transmutations) to maintain demand due to how integral coal has become to the economy in game.

28-Aug-2017 00:35:09

Hguoh
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2014

Hguoh

Posts: 6,777Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
It's difficult to say exactly how much of that has actually been kept in the newest designs of the rework, but it appears that a similar design principle is leading the decision for new ores over alloying existing metals.

If alloying were to be utilized, it would create many similar issues to that of coal's current use in higher level metals.

It's also worth considering the implications of an alloying solution. If alloying were used and the standard metals were not re-leveled, you'd still run into the issue of Smithing products not generally being useful to the player at the time they can make them (under the assumption that most players generally level pretty evenly). If alloying is done alongside the re-leveling of the standard metals, you'd run into the issue of exclusively locking all of high level Smithing training and production behind quests unless new ores to alloy with were introduced as well (which was what you were trying to avoid).

28-Aug-2017 00:45:21 - Last edited on 28-Aug-2017 00:46:17 by Hguoh

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