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Pixel Green
Oct Member 2011

Pixel Green

Posts: 343Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Eva Element said:
Pixel Green said:
Look at all these experts that haven't kept up with the dev blogs and Q&As. There are reasons that they can't just out and do it in 1 go without having major impact on other updates (that's for you).

The update was ~50% done at first after they started working on it in earnest; after player feedback it got scratched back to ~10% done.

And then after the big RuneScape survey, they noted that players cared more about M&S being beneficial rather than about reshuffling the tiers.

You wanted different results? You wanted the reshuffling of tiers to be a priority?

YOU SHOULD HAVE VOTED THAT WAY.
Or now, you have no right to complain about this proposal. Because in regards to the survey its what seems is best for players in terms of other updates and bringing in the most wanted part of M&S.

BabyRage


Were is the result of that poll at exactly? Can you post it on forums?


https://www.twitch.tv/videos/158321470
If I am not mistaken they show the priority in which the players voted at some point in this.

But watching hours of Q&As and being more informed is apparently harder than just moaning at Jagex without having a clue about what has been brewing. /s
"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." - Thomas Paine

25-Aug-2017 14:39:49

Eva Element
Jan Gold Premier Club Member 2012

Eva Element

Posts: 14,664Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Pixel Green said:
Eva Element said:
Pixel Green said:
Look at all these experts that haven't kept up with the dev blogs and Q&As. There are reasons that they can't just out and do it in 1 go without having major impact on other updates (that's for you).

The update was ~50% done at first after they started working on it in earnest; after player feedback it got scratched back to ~10% done.

And then after the big RuneScape survey, they noted that players cared more about M&S being beneficial rather than about reshuffling the tiers.

You wanted different results? You wanted the reshuffling of tiers to be a priority?

YOU SHOULD HAVE VOTED THAT WAY.
Or now, you have no right to complain about this proposal. Because in regards to the survey its what seems is best for players in terms of other updates and bringing in the most wanted part of M&S.

BabyRage


Were is the result of that poll at exactly? Can you post it on forums?


https://www.twitch.tv/videos/158321470
If I am not mistaken they show the priority in which the players voted at some point in this.

But watching hours of Q&As and being more informed is apparently harder than just moaning at Jagex without having a clue about what has been brewing. /s


How about you give a specific time frame. And how about Jagex posts results like that in some form on the forums so players don't have to sit though a couple hours video to see the results of a poll. That they are apparently going to use as the basis of change.
I'm a big entropy fan.

All subtlety and nuance of a napalm enema

25-Aug-2017 14:47:52

Mod Jack

Mod Jack

Jagex Moderator Forum Profile Posts by user
DIY Ceren said:
Mod Jack said:
Mike Lt said:
Oh how great, MORE UNFINISHED BUSINESS.

If you are going to poll this, then please do a proper poll and add a 3rd option to get the entire rework that was promised with re-tiering included. Not just the "80%".

Then a second poll with the 2 most popular choices out of those 3, since my vote priority would be "Full Rework" > "No Rework" > "Rework without metal tier rebalance".


That's what the "No" option means.


You really should include a better wording of the poll to include this fact. I read the whole dev blog and see this stated at the bottom, but when this goes in-game players will read the 'Yes' as what is said and the 'No' as No Rework.

I'm glad you guys are putting this dev blog out before the poll. (Something positive from the feedback being given)


I've noted that down, thanks.

25-Aug-2017 14:51:33

Deltaslug

Deltaslug

Posts: 23,311Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Mod Jack,
I do agree with the frustration of the other people.
I also see Jagex's viewpoint.

This isn't a small project.
You should know that players are acutely aware of just how massive this rework would be.

But from you're describing, you should make this clear as Mining/Smithing Batch 1.
Then go into what the goals for Batch 2 (down the road), then Batch 3 would entail.

ie:
Batch 2 would focus on Gold, Silver, Quest related mining/smithing (Blurite, Elemental, Bane), and oddball mining like Clay and Limestone, with some rework of monsters that drop ores, and simplification of any smithed items that don't require just bars (ie: Crossbows, Hastae, Spears).
The rewroking areas like the Crafting Guild, and certain other mining spots.
The advantage of Batch 2 like this, you still skirt the issue of the Bronze-Rune rework, but you put in the code and do a large scale test of the main mechanics you want for mining.

Batch 2.5 becomes a rework of monster drop tables for Mith-Rune items/ores.
Batch 3 becomes the rework of Coal, Mith-Rune. With retiers on the stuff you mine and smith, and the addition of the main mechanics for smithing those items.
Batch 3.5 becomes a rework of monster drop tables for low end smithing stuff.
Batch 4 becomes Bronze-Steel, with a focus on any remaining activities.
Batch 5 becomes catching any of the oddball items you missed.

However, the skills are so broken and outdated for usefulness, you kind of understand why players are open to the idea of just how much work would go into it. Even if it means other content doesn't get released.

But, that's why we do need to poll it. If players say Yes, more because they don't want a repeat of Menaphos (limited content coming out while 2/3 of the developers are working on this over the next 18 months) then I'll understand that as well, and it's a minority of the players who are willing to sacrifice.

25-Aug-2017 14:54:08 - Last edited on 25-Aug-2017 15:02:50 by Deltaslug

Mod Jack

Mod Jack

Jagex Moderator Forum Profile Posts by user
Deltaslug said:
But from you're describing, you should make this clear as Mining/Smithing Batch 1.
Then go into what the goals for Batch 2 (down the road), then Batch 3 would entail.


Part of what makes this update so difficult is that it really doesn't split up well into batches like that. For example, if we fix adamant but not gold or blurite, gold and blurite are simply broken. They might literally not work at all, or they might be far too high XP due to balance changes.

We could minimise the work we do to tidy each thing without fixing it properly, but that's massively adding work to every "batch" making the total time taken even longer.

25-Aug-2017 15:04:41

Blazey
Aug Gold Premier Club Member 2008

Blazey

Posts: 11,748Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
There's no point in doing the rework if we aren't putting rune to 40(50?) We'll just be pilling new on top of old as usual, if there's going to be a rework then the time needs to be put in to actually do what the original issue was that's always sparked the rework talk - rune being at 90-99. I've always thought Oricalcum(dragon) at 60 was too mythical because it's the dragonkin's metal and we'd need a lore explanation quest for it, so to cut dev time on making it the right way just rename it to a different metal.

Work with the community for monster/boss drop alternatives to rune

Really not a fan of more half-done content, we need a full rework or nothing and move on to the next unfinished business

25-Aug-2017 15:07:39

Kemtros
Feb Member 2006

Kemtros

Posts: 5,362Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'm afraid I'll be voting no. A lot of the ideas thrown around for Mining and Smithing have been interesting, but it's pretty clear that this is really high in scope. You made a point with expansions about how a lack of updates would be sorely felt, and this really does seem like it would take up a lot of resources like Menaphos did. I'd rather see Mining and Smithing cleaned up as it is, essentially "clearing up space" for the additions, rather than allowing an overlap. In other words, streamline the current skill before expanding on it. Having this rework in essentially "batches" (Look at how long it's taken us to get Invention Batch 2) is only going to make this more seem like a half-hearted rework, rather than getting 80% of the improvements out in 25% of the time.

25-Aug-2017 15:07:58 - Last edited on 25-Aug-2017 15:09:31 by Kemtros

DIY Ceren
Dec Gold Premier Club Member 2015

DIY Ceren

Posts: 6Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Eva Element said:
Pixel Green said:
Eva Element said:
Pixel Green said:
Look at all these experts that haven't kept up with the dev blogs and Q&As. There are reasons that they can't just out and do it in 1 go without having major impact on other updates (that's for you).

The update was ~50% done at first after they started working on it in earnest; after player feedback it got scratched back to ~10% done.

And then after the big RuneScape survey, they noted that players cared more about M&S being beneficial rather than about reshuffling the tiers.

You wanted different results? You wanted the reshuffling of tiers to be a priority?

YOU SHOULD HAVE VOTED THAT WAY.
Or now, you have no right to complain about this proposal. Because in regards to the survey its what seems is best for players in terms of other updates and bringing in the most wanted part of M&S.

BabyRage


Were is the result of that poll at exactly? Can you post it on forums?


https://www.twitch.tv/videos/158321470
If I am not mistaken they show the priority in which the players voted at some point in this.

But watching hours of Q&As and being more informed is apparently harder than just moaning at Jagex without having a clue about what has been brewing. /s


How about you give a specific time frame. And how about Jagex posts results like that in some form on the forums so players don't have to sit though a couple hours video to see the results of a poll. That they are apparently going to use as the basis of change.


Here is the strawpoll:
http://www.strawpoll.me/13592759

25-Aug-2017 15:10:01

Deltaslug

Deltaslug

Posts: 23,311Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Mod Jack said:
Deltaslug said:
But from you're describing, you should make this clear as Mining/Smithing Batch 1.
Then go into what the goals for Batch 2 (down the road), then Batch 3 would entail.


Part of what makes this update so difficult is that it really doesn't split up well into batches like that. For example, if we fix adamant but not gold or blurite, gold and blurite are simply broken. They might literally not work at all, or they might be far too high XP due to balance changes.

We could minimise the work we do to tidy each thing without fixing it properly, but that's massively adding work to every "batch" making the total time taken even longer.


*shrugs*
It'll take a massive amount of work either way.
Plus my comment was just an example.

25-Aug-2017 15:11:00

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