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M/S rework - My view

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Uriel
Aug Gold Premier Club Member 2010

Uriel

Posts: 8,540Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hey all,

So today the beta came out. After trying out as much in the beta, torturing asking Mod Jack and Shogun on some information about the updates, and as well as reviewing some other things I personally find strange or unfinished about the rework, Iíve decided to here compile a list of all things I feel need to be addressed in the upcoming rework. Iíd love to let this suffice as a megathread eventually, so please tell me as well what you agree/disagree on, and how or what you think needs to be addressed (too).
Roawr.

13-Feb-2018 02:35:54

Uriel
Aug Gold Premier Club Member 2010

Uriel

Posts: 8,540Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
1 - Ranged equipment.
As the statement from Mod Deg, the Mining/Smithing rework will not include the following items: Darts(unf), Arrow Heads, Crossbow Limbs, Crossbow Bolts(unf), Knives, Throwing Axes, as well as some other uncraftable ranged equipment such as Javelins. This is a pity to hear, because in my opinion, I feel that the M/S rework could cause a serious impact on the Melee equipment balance, rendering a sheer overpower to the other tiers. Ranged, in my opinion, would fall back tremendously because its supply of gear is suddenly harshly limited compared to melee.

In order to battle this, I think itís more than sensible to let this rework cross over into ranged as well, with new tiers of Arrows, crossbows and throwables as well. ĒBut wouldnít that make most ranged equipment worthless too?Ē It partially will, perhaps, BUT hear me out. Why not just let the current equipment be an UPGRADE from its plain, craftable ammunition type? Think of:
Araxyte Venom, used on Elder Rune arrows to give them a poison (or Venom, as a new mechanic sourced from OSRS) effect, as well as the stacking effect with Noxious equipment
Ascendri Shards, used on Elder Rune bolts, to gain a higher hit chance against unique Slayer creatures, as well as possessing the ĎBroad Tippedí trait to overcome immunities.
How will bolt tipping go?
Opal on Bronze, Jade on Iron, Pearl on Steel, Topaz on Black, Sapphire on Mithril, Emerald on Adamant, Ruby on Rune, Diamond on Drakolith, Dragonstone on Necronium, Onyx on Bane, and Hydrix on Elder Rune.
Roawr.

13-Feb-2018 02:35:59

Uriel
Aug Gold Premier Club Member 2010

Uriel

Posts: 8,540Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
2 - What the Forge? How are human forges able to process above Rune?
Lore inconsistencies can conflict utility. And this is something, however, that I feel needs to get adressed though. As the lore states: Rune Smithing is a legendary art, only the nearly-extinct Imcando dwarves were ever able to forge a blade from its glorious blue metal. and from runefest; Drakolith is the pure form of metal, from which the Necrosyrtes Dragonkin combined with Orikalkum to forge Dragon Equipment, which required a forge heated by Dragonfire to process. This brings up a major flaw;
How is a traditional, mortal assembled forge, even able to process Drakolith, and ALL ores above that too?
So, I have an answer to propose as idea; Use different skilling locations. Open up the Dragon Forge in the waterfall cave, perhaps add another one or two in the world on other places, and do the same for the tier 80 + 90.
Roawr.

13-Feb-2018 02:36:14

Uriel
Aug Gold Premier Club Member 2010

Uriel

Posts: 8,540Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
3 - Smithing 120?
All right, this point may cause instant gag reflexes, and Iím sorry if it will, but this is just a point of thought and not an actual already-implemented thing. Elite skills are always a touchy subject, because the effort any non-maxed player needs to access the new content goes up exponentially for each level it goes above 99. As well, the entire goal of the Mining and Smithing rework was to bring the equipment tiers in line with the required combat stats. As much as I donít like having a grindsome skill as Smithing to become 120, we canít deny two things that would form a great support to make it max 120:
Originally, when we gain a level, we actually get Ďwowídí because we can suddenly make a new kind of weapon. When everything is spread even tighter in just 10 levels space, which is half of the original space it used to have, the amount of unlocks you can make can turnÖ overwhelming.
Smithing was pretty smeared and evenly spread-out with the content you unlocked. Every level gave you something new. Now, this suddenly DOUBLED, and I fear the skill unlocks will become massively cramped together.
So what could be an idea?
Each material tier unlocks on its original level
Each material has unlocks spread over 15 levels, with the highest being an Elder Rune platebody at 105.
Each equipment upgrade requires 2 levels higher than its previous state, with the highest being an Elder Rune Platebody V at 113
Roawr.

13-Feb-2018 02:36:24

Uriel
Aug Gold Premier Club Member 2010

Uriel

Posts: 8,540Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
4 - Construction involvement (plus Invention?)
Construction has been left out for a long while. Itís pretty much a stand-alone skill, as-is, situated around your own fetish for collecting pets (Okay, thatís just a joke. Donít kill me please.) Now the Furnace has its own purpose, as well as the Forge with Anvil, I think we can try let Construction play a role here past level 30. Remember; we are the adventurer. We are one of the scarce people (lore-wiseÖ) that go out of the boundaries of humankind, and discover new stuff! We discover ores that humankind never thought of processing before! So, this is my idea, which goes in addition to Point 2; Let us upgrade the furnaces and forge + anvils in the world, to enable high tier smithing without going to exceptional places.
(Lvl 5 Con, free to play) Sturdy Furnace (5x Luminite Ore, 5x Clay, 5x Wooden Planks + Nails) + Adamantite Anvil + Tier 2 forge (5x Adamant bar + 5x Clay), enables smelting + smithing up to Rune
(Lvl 40 Con) Reinforced Furnace (5x Phasmatite Ore, 5x Limestone, 5x Oak Planks) + Imcandan Anvil (5x Drakolith Bar + 5x Limestone), enables smelting + smithing up to Necronium
Lvl 70 Con) Blast Furnace (5x Dark Animica Ore, 5x Marble, 5x Mahogany Planks) + Khetsian Anvil (5x Bane Bar + 5x Limestone), enables smelthing + smithing up to Elder Rune, can also craft Bane arrowheads / bolts.
Roawr.

13-Feb-2018 02:36:32

Uriel
Aug Gold Premier Club Member 2010

Uriel

Posts: 8,540Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
5 - A thought about redunant slot counterparts.
This is something I personally feel that NEEDS to be adressed. We all know the Ďforever-aloneí equipments, donít we? Medium helmets, square shields, chainbodiesÖ Thereís literally no point in ever getting these. Why isnít there? Everyone goes straightly for a Full helmet, a Kiteshield, or a Platebody. Even if it costs more materials, never in my life have I ever seen that argument being used to prefer an inferior in-slot item of the same tier. I would love to see this fixed, that there is a purpose to prefer a Medium Helmet, a Square Shield, or a Chainbody over their populair counterparts. I feel the Mining and Smithing rework is the perfect opportunity to introduce this.

6 - Ores are permanent, no respawn or contest.
This was a bomb to hear, something I wish to be changed as fast as possible, actually. I was happy to see that the ores now more have a mechanic like the Trees in runescape, but after hearing that Ores also stay PERMANENTLY, I got my worries, for the following reason:
Having permanent ore location defies all logical need to have multiple ore hotspots. Both in the same mining location, as anywhere on the world. Contest never was a bad thing. It created a hard cap on supply, and with eight new ores coming out, this cap is crucial to prevent the whole market from flipping more than Julian Goboss. High level ores donít only need to be hard to access in terms of area safety, but also because of availability. No matter how long itíll take to mine, if thousands of people mine the new tier 90 ore, new tier 90 equipment will flood the market and make almost EVERY other tier 90 (or inferior) become absolutely redunant. Now Iím not saying the ore should respawn as slow as it takes for Mod Timboís tree to respawn, but I think you get the point.
Roawr.

13-Feb-2018 02:36:39

Uriel
Aug Gold Premier Club Member 2010

Uriel

Posts: 8,540Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
7 - Some other little things to note. Things I personally donít find as important, but feel they need to be adressed anyway.
Bane equipment? Iím having a major headache trying to figure out how this name will prevent confusion with the already-existing bane equipment.
With the new M/S rework, what about hatchets? Who/what is going to prevent a person creating a hatchet from a stronger material?
Heat is dropping too quickly, even after its expansion later today. Can the heat capacity be dependant on the material, the playerís smithing level, and if applied, point 4ís Forge tier?
Iíd love to use Decorated equipment more than just dumping at Doric. Poor old dwarf, whatís he gonna do with all that stuff....
Maybe add some Invention, in addition to point 4, for some extra forge abilities?
Will the Tier 80/90 equipment be degrading?
Why is Light Animica ore a stand-alone ore to mine? Iíd love to see this ore get some different involvement, like some kind of purification process using Elven practice, Divination, or running around a chunk on the ground with my chicken suit on.
What will happen to other in-slot counterparts? Like Dragon Equipment, etc.
Roawr.

13-Feb-2018 02:36:45

Hguoh
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2014

Hguoh

Posts: 7,424Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
1. How would melee overpowered? The gear most people will be making is tank gear, with a maximum of t88 stats. Ranged and Magic have sets that are pretty comparable to that (ports gear is 3 levels lower in stats). The only thing that seems remotely unbalancing is energized armor (t92 power armor), but that requires Masterwork armor (lots of time and resource investment or a likely high gp cost to purchase form others) and several pieces of Torva, pieces of Malevolent, and Drygores. Admittedly better than anything Magic or Ranged have, but only by 2 levels (so not all that significant).

Besides, we literally just got t99 range ammo for crossbows using gem bolt tips on bakriminel bolts and enchanting them (so the bolt tipping suggestion is redundant). The other suggestions are interesting, but would be piling even more work onto the already intensive rework. So I'd rather pass on those at this time.

2. Dragonkin take Drakkurlith and Orichalcum and expose them to dragonfire to make Dragon equipment. We take Drakkurlith, add no secondary ore, and use a puny human furnace to make... Drakkurlith. We can process it as we do, but make something clearly inferior to what the Dragonkin can make. Chalk up the ability to process the other ores to using their corresponding secondary ores to allow them to be processed by our puny furnaces.

It would also be bad form to block all lvl60+ content in Smithing behind a grandmaster quest like WGS. Core content of a skill should not be locked behind quests. Quests can unlock easier access or non-core content, sure. Finally, use of the dragon forge is already pegged for the production of masterwork and/or energized gear, so it hasn't been forgotten.

3. No. A big part of the rework is putting content at levels where you'd actually want to use what you make. Raising the skills to 120 works completely against this.

13-Feb-2018 04:41:22

Hguoh
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2014

Hguoh

Posts: 7,424Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
4. Similar point to #1. This is already a work intensive update. So for as interesting as your suggestions are, I wouldn't want to pile them onto this.

5. The new ores don't get the equipment you bring up because there is no good reason for people to use them. The only reason the pre-existing metals have and keep their versions of these equipment is because Jagex doesn't want to do the any of following: forcibly remove the items from people's accounts; replace the items with their 'better' counterparts (would cause issues particularly with dragon gear); or make them new discontinued items.

6. 2 words: Tank Gear. 2 more words: no effects. 4 more words: No special Invention components. PvM gear has one or more of these. In addition, Dragon and Barrows gear is currently set to be used in Masterwork gear (t90 tank), while Torva, Malevolent, and Drygores are set to be used in Energized gear (t92 power) alongside the aforementioned Masterwork gear. In addition, unless you talk Masterwork or Energized (notably higher investment of time and resources) you can only get up to tank gear that takes lvl90 to wear and gives t88 stats, so I doubt it will upset the market as much as you worry.

Also, I don't know if you noticed, but it takes a lot of bars (and therefore ores, which take a notable time investment to obtain themselves (which will influence their price point correspondingly)) to make the best variants of the 'basic' gear, and we haven't been given any indication of degrade rates on the new gear (which could make the most minimal variants of the basic gear unsuitable for anything (think ancient warriors gear prior to the patches and ability to augment them)).

13-Feb-2018 05:04:46

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