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Armor/Weapon Differentiation?

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Iron Gubzs
Dec Member 2016

Iron Gubzs

Posts: 37Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
This was in the big poll but since then has not been mentioned or discussed in any way and I'm getting concerned. This update should be a TOP priority if not THE top combat-related update on the "we need to work on this" list.

I think most of us will agree that gearing in RS with the current system is less than ideal. The tier system limits dev creativity, has a chokehold on the endgame loot economy, everything has to degrade to dust because one item is BiS for ALL content, the smithing rework is already useless pre-release because the gear HAS to suck for the game to continue functioning..

.. the current system introduced with EoC is outdated, and generally is just really harmful to the game moving forward.

But we used to have alternatives!


Back in the day we had choices... attack speed actually mattered... special attacks were not only meaningful, but so meaningful that entire weapons existed and were valued for having nice special attacks. We had cool niche set effects with barrows gear.

Nowadays the reason I'm supposed to have to do the new Elite Dungeon is to upgrade my degrade to dust T90 armors to T92s but why do I even care? Surprise - I don't, the reward isn't worth the effort - AND THAT'S A BUMMER because it looks like great content that I want a reason to do!

Why does a new player want a gmaul instead of a cheap rune dagger? They DON'T. The current gearing system was created to crutch the EoC release, and here we are years later with tons of dead items, rare stuff that doesn't make any sense to have any rarity, and meaningful gearing is a thing of the past.

I just want to know:

When is this being worked on? Because it needs to be FINISHED 3 years ago.
And - What are some potential solutions? Because something needs to change.

PvM loot is a mess, slayer loot is a mess, and devs can't create cool new things because the sandbox won't support them.

Take a Hint: That means it's time to fix the sandbox

27-Jun-2018 20:19:04 - Last edited on 27-Jun-2018 20:28:43 by Iron Gubzs

Serene Steel
Sep Gold Premier Club Member 2015

Serene Steel

Posts: 11,612Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I don't think Tierscape ruined the game, but removing weapon uniqueness certainly did.

One instance of how making certain weapons have better side effect is halberd weaponry. They currently have an extra square of attack, most effective for AoE abilities.

The problem with this, as it stands, is that there's

1. No offset for the effect (i.e. lower attack power to make up for said extra space)
2. No bonus for using anything other than a halberd style weapon (i.e. 2h swords offering bonus strength)

The same can be said for daggers vs swords vs maces vs battleaxes vs etc.


---


I'd also like to say that the M&S gear doesn't "suck" as, if the numbers we saw in the first beta
are anything to go by, it takes mere hours to make a full T85 melee set.

Compare that to the timegated PoPs content. Tetsu takes considerably longer to earn albeit with less overall active input.

Last I checked, you can make a T85 2h sword in about 2-3 hours assuming you gathered the materials from scratch.

If you already own Ports or better gear, yes, it's worthless. That's the point of the gear.
But from a "trying out PvM bosses" or a PvP or a "PvM on a budget" standpoint, the M&S Rework is a godsend.

But I digress.
The Steelweaver

World Guardian #835
Maxed 9/7/2016
120 Smithing 1/4/2019

28-Jun-2018 04:08:03 - Last edited on 28-Jun-2018 04:08:55 by Serene Steel

Uncle Pob

Uncle Pob

Posts: 2,962Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The M&S gear also slots nicely into it's own niche - non-bossers. Not all PvM equips need to be based around the needs of elite players battling the most difficult content in the game; things that give non-bossers a leg-up and perhaps the power to begin the process of starting to boss are welcome too.

M&S gear more or less comes in two basic varieties: default and enhanced. Default gear is the initial form of every item made, and from there they can be optionally enhanced into their stronger forms.

Normal gear works in the same way that smithable gear always has: armor is tank-armor geared around defense, and everything is non-degradable. When enhanced, armor switches to become stronger power-armor, and degrades. Obviously the latter will take much longer to make, and will be the more valuable type to make for the purposes of selling since that's the only variety bossers will be interested in.

But default has it's uses. Right now, for example, the highest-tier non-degrading melee armor is Anima Core of Zaros, which is about 60m on the GE. Thanks to the rework, players with high mining and smithing will be able to craft tank armor superior to that within a matter of days, as well as swords more powerful than the T75 Godswords we already use (everything higher currently degrades).

This will make Slayer tasks easier for non-bossers, and could even render early bosses like the GWD1 ones trivial enough that non-bossers could successfully farm them, thus building their confidence and allowing them to progress into becoming proper bossers.

28-Jun-2018 04:25:53

Iceey

Iceey

Posts: 6,607Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I have to agree. I also agree that they are spending too much time on top gear items. What are they going to do when they get to 99? At the rate we are going, we will be there in 2 years.

They need to expand the weapons and actually make them useful for all tiers, not just the highest tier. I also don't like the idea of degradeing to dust and I think it should just be removed. The main reason I don't go above t85 in gear most of the time because the degrading to dust make it useless and not worth the time. Weapons, thankfully, are mostly ok, but armor has been lacking severely lately.
Come the Sixth-Age, the world will need the World Guardian.

28-Jun-2018 19:48:21

yggdrsil
Jan Gold Premier Club Member 2011

yggdrsil

Posts: 337Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Could always take a page from the souls franchise on making weapons more diverse, by stat scaling so by lowering the base damage and accuracy of a weapon it would get more bonuses from attack/strength/range/magic

29-Jun-2018 18:59:03 - Last edited on 29-Jun-2018 18:59:19 by yggdrsil

PrimaAntiqua
Jun Gold Premier Club Member 2007

PrimaAntiqua

Posts: 676Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I think you're rose-tinted nostalgia glasses-ing this to some extent. Sure, weapons seemed more varied with attack speeds and so on, but at the end of the day there was always a 'best in slot' and usually it was the highest level you could use 'tierscape'. And Barrows set effects still exist and are probably better now at the gear's level than they used to be. Realistically, Pre-Eoc did anyone ever actually use a set other than Dharok's to PK, Guthan's as a switch on slayer and Verac's for KQ?

The problems we have now ALWAYS existed, they're just a bit more obvious now that weapons actually follow a level progression (which surely is a good thing, making levels actually matter?).

That's not to say more couldn't be done, of course. Weapons and gear can always be made more interesting with set effects like Achto, like Invention has done in a sense too. A lot of modern gear diversity comes from different Invention perk setups for different things.

As for spec weapons, the problem with these is that, quite simply, they don't work as well in the current combat system. It's nostalgia again: sure it was nice at the time but these days when you're already having to do abilities and avoid mechanics, you don't also want to be having to constant switch weapons. The notion of "switchscape" coming from things like 4taa, luck rings and vigour+Planted Feet are already common complaints, and more special attacks just increase the problem.

Like I say, that doesn't mean we can't and shouldn't have more diversity in what gear does, but looking to the broken past for inspiration isn't the way.

30-Jun-2018 14:41:38

Serene Steel
Sep Gold Premier Club Member 2015

Serene Steel

Posts: 11,612Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
yggdrsil said:
Could always take a page from the souls franchise on making weapons more diverse, by stat scaling so by lowering the base damage and accuracy of a weapon it would get more bonuses from attack/strength/range/magic


The problem with this is that the Souls games have two distinct differences to them that RuneScape avoids entirely.

1. You can't do everything on one character.
2. You can't max every stat.

Making it so things scale because of your stats just means everything is as efficient as all the rest until you factor in special abilities (which is essentially why Halberd archetype weapons are overpowered right now: there's no reason to NOT use them).
The Steelweaver

World Guardian #835
Maxed 9/7/2016
120 Smithing 1/4/2019

30-Jun-2018 21:00:16 - Last edited on 30-Jun-2018 21:00:34 by Serene Steel

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