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Why? Why? Why? - Minigames

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Yusou Bhoroi
Dec Gold Premier Club Member 2017

Yusou Bhoroi

Posts: 8,486Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
(apologies in advance, for horrendous rambling/wording)

Ok, for those who don't know, Minigames have yet again been threatened with removals.
(See: The Year Ahead - 4:32; nice wording there, though.. reminds me of something..)

While that may be understandable, the series of situations that have lead to that even being a consideration, are mostly inexcusable.



This thread is to:

• Highlight that - I may bring up a few examples of these things.

• Protest against the removals, and against the pretense that help has been attempted.

• Highlight the potential issues with the proposal to clump all Minigames together - in the vain hope that any of it, or the suggestions for how to do it without causing harm/other, more helpful alternatives, may be listened to this time.



Given the wide range of the issues needing to be addressed (with regards to the past examples), they won't be all covered in the opening of the thread, but will be posted elsewhere and linked to here, so that they don't create too much to read through in one chunk.

As such, most of the discussion will be about the update mentioned in The Year Ahead, and ways to make sure it isn't entirely harmful to some Miningames.

It important to stress, that if the ways to ensure it doesn't have detrimental repercussions are too much to fit into the allotted time, then it would be better to do no update at all - this should be obvious, as spending effort to damage something is completely wasted time, and uses up time that could have gone to doing something good, but past experience shows that doesn't appear to be considered.

The "Why? Why? Why?" of the title, refers to their propensity to always choose the option for 'helping Minigames' that has the highest potential for doing harm, if done incorrectly, and then proceeding to ignore all warnings about possible consequences, and suggestions giving ways to do it without causing harm.

06-Jan-2018 01:27:53

Yusou Bhoroi
Dec Gold Premier Club Member 2017

Yusou Bhoroi

Posts: 8,486Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
First off:

Grouping all Minigames into one place. - Great, potentially, if done correctly.



There are major pitfalls to this, though, and most of them are near-guaranteed, given the other problems that have been left to fester in Miningames (compounded by the length of time they've been left so, which has given rise to a culture that will try to enforce them).



What am I talking about?

Well, there are two such major pitfalls that exacerbate eachother, and while there are other problems, too, those generally can come to be grouped into these two, or are comparatively minor (other than in their effects as amplifiers and reinforcers of the main two).


These are:

06-Jan-2018 01:28:02 - Last edited on 06-Jan-2018 04:03:27 by Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi
Dec Gold Premier Club Member 2017

Yusou Bhoroi

Posts: 8,486Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
~\°
Pitfall # The First
°/~



Many Minigames can be incredibly sensitive to ping, or population lag. Playing them on high ping, and/or high population Worlds, will greatly reduce the playablility, especially at the top-end of play, and completely spoil the experience, making enjoyment difficult, or impossible.

Instancing does not solve this, if not done properly. The Cabbage FacePunch Bonanza is an example of it being done half-right.

It does group together different people, allowing games to be more populated, but the shards are often extremely laggy, and wierdly appear to have vastly different ping to the Worldset-server they are supposedly spawned on - It was supposedly designed so that people on the same server (different Worlds), would be grouped together on a split-off shard, on the server.

Leaving aside the obvious issue with that not dealing with a server being crowded, it still begs the qeustion: Why does this shard sometimes have a ping that is up to 2500% higher (380, vs 15, for example), even when not peaking, than the World you entered from, which is supposedly the same server?


For high intensity PvP, or PvG content, the effects start to be noticeable anywhere above a ping of 40, or a population of 80, they can become gradually more detrimental as these increase - by 100+ ping, and 150+ population, it can become highly detrimental to 'top-end' play.

(Would you go to w2, to attempt to break your personal best killtime, on 1000%+ enr Telos?).

06-Jan-2018 01:28:08 - Last edited on 06-Jan-2018 04:04:17 by Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi
Dec Gold Premier Club Member 2017

Yusou Bhoroi

Posts: 8,486Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
~\°
Pitfall # The Second
°/~




Clumping everyone together, especially in random games, is detrimental to newcomers and communities, alike.

Games become forcibly unevenly matched, ruining the experience for all parties:
- putting off newcomers, and making it more likely they will AFK (and find that AFK is more rewarding than playing, so will do that as default), or leave (either way, they take negative associations with the content, away with them - and spread them).
- Making experienced players frustrated and preventing them from being able to play. It only takes one person to AFK, in some Minigames, for the experience and playability to be ruined for all who are there. This can lead to them AFKing, too.. which spreads to yet more games, when they do it there.

No one gains enjoyment out of it (not without putting in significant extra effort, and also being supremely lucky in not getting anyone deciding to AFK), and it sets groups of players against eachother (talking about those who are not meant to be opposing eachother).

People who wish to play with eachother, cannot, so don't bother trying.

AFKing becomes the only way the content is 'used', as no one can escape it (if they are given a way to, then they are at a disadvantage in having to put in extra effort to track down others who also wish to play).



There are, of course, as I mentioned at the start, ways to prevent these problems; so it is possible to make this update work as a positive for Minigames - however, this needs to be done carefully, in order for it to work.

06-Jan-2018 01:28:17 - Last edited on 06-Jan-2018 04:05:39 by Yusou Bhoroi

Yusou Bhoroi
Dec Gold Premier Club Member 2017

Yusou Bhoroi

Posts: 8,486Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
~\°
Links
°/~

(posts linked to may not be on this thread, this is so as to allow more leeway with organisation, and resising)


Remember to come back to this thread, if you wish to comment on anything you read in the linked-to posts!



The following are links to further posts, that list and explain solutions:

Solutions for the Minigame-Hub problems (Carries on for 7 posts - currently unfinished)




These are links to posts that detail past situations where development decisions have been made, that have knowingly had the consequence of negative impacts to Miningames
(I will add these gradually, over time, as most have been posted elsewhere, and they are very stressful to recall, and thus not always simple to reiterate without becoming heated, or missing out key points):

06-Jan-2018 01:28:39 - Last edited on 06-Jan-2018 09:05:22 by Yusou Bhoroi

Timome
Jan Member 2019

Timome

Posts: 1,043Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
*listens to the video from 4:32* "...cutting some of the more underused minigames in the process"

Oh, they're just cutting some of the more underused minigames in the process...

...wait, what!? Details, please!
Reason, compassion and GOP.

GOP FC | GOP Hiscores | GOP Intro

06-Jan-2018 01:45:05 - Last edited on 06-Jan-2018 01:47:54 by Timome

Kcin

Kcin

Posts: 13,684Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
If a minigame is never played, why have it in the game anymore? Waste of space. [qfc id= 373-374-110-66042164]Support the small QoL updates[/qfc] Ever feel like you have a person who won't leave you alone even if you've asked many times?

06-Jan-2018 02:24:04

Yusou Bhoroi
Dec Gold Premier Club Member 2017

Yusou Bhoroi

Posts: 8,486Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
If you prevent a Minigame from being used positively, of course it won't be used much.

The fault doesn't then lie with the Minigame for being bad (which they often aren't), but with the things done to prevent it from being used positively.

06-Jan-2018 02:49:51 - Last edited on 06-Jan-2018 02:50:18 by Yusou Bhoroi

lopey
Jul Gold Premier Club Member 2016

lopey

Posts: 195Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
There are people that still play the "dead" mini-games.

They may seem like they flat-lined but there is still life somewhere among them.

What have we ever done to you guys?! You're still gonna have your max capes!!!

Let the afk noobs have their thaler and let us keep our fun!!

The time and effort that the person/teams who created these mini-games would be all for nothing...

GOP IS AN ART AND A WAY OF LIFE.
My prayers go out to other mini-game communities going through the same fate. <3
Please do not remove :(

#LETUSKEEPOURMINIGAMES
why

06-Jan-2018 03:44:39

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