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Why? Why? Why? - Minigames

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Deltaslug

Deltaslug

Posts: 27,918Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
@5quarecrow,
Have you actually worked as a software developer? Or at least worked closely with them?

I was in in hardware and software testing/qa for YEARS. So i can appreciate how much time it would take to revamp 1 minigame. Let alone ALL of them.

In terms if dev time (shortest to longest)
1 do nothing
2 remove them
3 ninja fix them
4 update 2 minigames
5 moderate overhaul all minigames
6 update all to the scale done in BA and Bounty Hunter or deathmatch

That is why it is easier to have done nothing to date.
And the time needed to update ALL of the minigames would mean tons of other content would not get worked on.

Now, if the voting majority of the community wanted a certain minigame or 2 overhauled, sure. Ok. Let's see what happens.

We all have our own personal opinions if what or how reworks (if at all) should be done.

I apologize for sounding cynical on this.
It would be nice to know what jagex's cut list for the minigames are.

21-Feb-2018 14:59:58

Tagakhlo
Sep Member 2014

Tagakhlo

Posts: 948Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I am definitely in favor of doing nothing with minigames instead of removing them. Of course, since Runescape itself gets constantly changed, it may be that to keep a minigame working as Runescape itself changes requires constant maintenance.

But definitely in future I think instead of adding more minigames, it is better to add to Runescape in a different direction.

21-Feb-2018 15:50:50

Kcin
Aug Member 2008

Kcin

Posts: 13,684Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
5quarecrow said:

More importantly, how do you know the RS code more than a Jagex employee? As has already been mentioned in this thread, a Jagex Mod stated that one crucial fix for GOP would take a "tea break" to be implemented. Perhaps if you read threads that suggested ninja fixes for minigames, you'd know how small most of the things that need fixing are.


Cause said Jmod(s) have stated it in the past. Perhaps if you read threads too you would know. Also please learn the difference between a "fix" and a "ravamp" and minigames would require the revamp not the fix to be alive once more.

Just so we are clear because people keep thinking i mean another thing when I don't. Minigames that I am for removal of are those that are like Rat Pits: get in the way of updates, have no people actually playing them, and are a mess.

All other minigames should be thrown in the minigame hub that they are proposing/making to keep them in the game, mitigate their impact on the outside game.
[qfc id= 373-374-110-66042164]Support the small QoL updates[/qfc] Ever feel like you have a person who won't leave you alone even if you've asked many times?

21-Feb-2018 15:52:28 - Last edited on 21-Feb-2018 15:55:35 by Kcin

Dr Esa
Apr Member 2019

Dr Esa

Posts: 1,351Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Two questions: answer them directly don't bullshit.

1) How does a tiny minigame like Rat Pits get in the way of updates especially when we had expansions last year and many more promised for 2018?

2) What's the point of throwing them in a minigame hub? They're still there, and won't go away. Especially when I thought your biggest problem was that they took up so much space in the database?

22-Feb-2018 05:21:15

Kcin
Aug Member 2008

Kcin

Posts: 13,684Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Dr Esa said:
Two questions: answer them directly don't bullshit.

1) How does a tiny minigame like Rat Pits get in the way of updates especially when we had expansions last year and many more promised for 2018?

Spaghetti code, having to rewrite(or hell even trying to write code around it) on the minigame to a workable way to be able to make any update in that area. If you think code from one thing doesn't affect code in the area you are just daft. Clearly it also wasn't a "tiny minigame".

Dr Esa said:

2) What's the point of throwing them in a minigame hub? They're still there, and won't go away. Especially when I thought your biggest problem was that they took up so much space in the database?

1)One place mitigate the affect that they have on the outside game
2)easier to get to any minigame
3)easier to switch between minigames
4)has no negatives to it
5)still has the possibility to remove the broken, nonplayed minigames
6)having a portal to the lobby take up much less space than having a whole area for that minigame that is pre lobby space
[qfc id= 373-374-110-66042164]Support the small QoL updates[/qfc] Ever feel like you have a person who won't leave you alone even if you've asked many times?

22-Feb-2018 13:13:31 - Last edited on 22-Feb-2018 13:13:47 by Kcin

Deltaslug

Deltaslug

Posts: 27,918Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Dr Esa said:

1) How does a tiny minigame like Rat Pits get in the way of updates especially when we had expansions last year and many more promised for 2018?


You also have development and QA time.

Rat Pits was a function related to Cats.
Rat Pits were also located in Varrock, Ardy, Port Sarim, and Keldagrim.

If a developer wanted to do something new with cats (new quest, new activity, new combat ability) or wanted to graphically rework the part of town near a Rat Pits location, then they would
#1 make sure that they could compile the code and have everything around those 2 operation work
#2 QA would have to go in and test that as 1 of their test sections

ie: to test cats, test cases would involve
- test each quest that uses cats
- test raising cats
- test cat in PoH
- test Rat Pits (and with each stage of growth for cat)
and so on

The QA team could have 50, 80, even a few hundred positive and negative test cases they had to evaluate just to make sure EACH Rat Pit worked properly after an update for Cats.

22-Feb-2018 13:31:51 - Last edited on 22-Feb-2018 13:33:30 by Deltaslug

Hguoh
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2014

Hguoh

Posts: 7,428Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Dr Esa said:
1) How does a tiny minigame like Rat Pits get in the way of updates especially when we had expansions last year and many more promised for 2018?


Rat Pits was particularly prone to breaking on update. And when an update broke it, it could break things hard. Simply looking up 'rat pits bugs' shows Rat Pits being used to:

Pick up Quest NPC followers that were not intended to be picked up.
Duplicate gp and items.
Make cats able to kill other cats and summoning familiars outside of the rat pits (and then immediately steal whatever items a killed BoB dropped).

23-Feb-2018 01:44:38

Dr Esa
Apr Member 2019

Dr Esa

Posts: 1,351Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The only real assortment I could find is that it might get in the way of graphical reworks. A new quest about cats were never mentioned in development blogs AFAIK, combat abilities definitely shouldn't be related to cats , and new activities? Like a new minigame maybe? okay. I'm not even sure how much code gets in the way for graphic designers specifically. Certainly some minigames have bugs, but I don't see why Jagex should remove the history of minigames especially when they havn't really done anything at all about 4ticking and that has waaaaay more detrimental effects towards this game than minigames - oh yeah it takes an extra week for people to comp and it pops into maxed players' dreams when they're thinking about comping.

Spaghetti code is an often reiterated statement to the point it's really not a valid excuse anymore. If spaghetti code was really a super problem then the MS rework should've been untouchable in the first place. When I was working instead of playing rs all day (I don't play rs all day) I would just tell people the backroom was too much of a mess and would be a pain in the ass to get something from there. I guess Jmods get it too. Shrugs.

23-Feb-2018 07:03:42

Kcin
Aug Member 2008

Kcin

Posts: 13,684Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Dr Esa said:
The only real assortment I could find is that it might get in the way of graphical reworks.

We literally gave you reasons and you only choose one to believe? This is the reason you should just not try.

Dr Esa said:

Certainly some minigames have bugs, but I don't see why Jagex should remove the history of minigames

Throw up a plague or a very small monument stating these are the minigames that have failed and never got played. There you save your "history" of those minigames.

Dr Esa said:

Spaghetti code is an often reiterated statement to the point it's really not a valid excuse anymore. If spaghetti code was really a super problem then the MS rework should've been untouchable in the first place.

There is a reason why its taken so long for the M&S to actually happen. How many year delays has it encountered? So yes it is a valid excuse.

Dr Esa said:

When I was working instead of playing rs all day (I don't play rs all day) I would just tell people the backroom was too much of a mess and would be a pain in the ass to get something from there. I guess Jmods get it too. Shrugs.


Shows how little coding knowledge you actually have right here.

edit:
let this thread die
[qfc id= 373-374-110-66042164]Support the small QoL updates[/qfc] Ever feel like you have a person who won't leave you alone even if you've asked many times?

23-Feb-2018 13:29:19 - Last edited on 12-Mar-2018 22:30:40 by Kcin

ghidorah666
Dec Gold Premier Club Member 2014

ghidorah666

Posts: 74Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hiya, I'm an admin in 1elitesc non combat sc clan and I also help out fast sc run games as much as possible to keep the game alive. There's still a small community of dedicated ranks who try to run games not just on spotlight. If they could just adjust the sc rewards to accommodate for the new faster xp rates in skill updates, or heck, even just make it so you just need 6 or 8 to start games we'd be happy. Our fear is that SC will get instanced and destroy the balance between both combat and non-combat methods. Yes I know SC is dull and grey but it's got a place in a decent amount of people's hearts and I've proudly been a part of 1e for close to 9 yrs now and I'd hate to see it get sent to the dead content hall lol. It's easy to go on about the good ol' days of 24/7 games but I just hope things don't get flushed down the memory hole. Then again, Kylo Ren may be onto something with that whole kill the past schpeel

12-Mar-2018 18:34:51

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