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Enhancing Combat and PVP

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Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Posts: 1,164Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hello.

I've compiled a page of ideas created by others and myself that I believe will enhance combat and improve the state of PVP. Enjoy and comment.



Untradeables on death in the wilderness need a rework!


It is so irritating having to run all throughout Gielinor to buy back/re-obtain your untradable items when you lose them in the wilderness. Here is my solution:

Mandrith wants to encourage your pking by making item reclaims STRESS-FREE ^_^

For example: if you die in the wilderness with a fire cape, 100k gp drops for your opponent, and your fire cape gets sent to Mandrith. He will sell it back to you for 100k. This will include all non-tradeables used to pk with, with varying prices depending on the items tier.

I want to make this clear: I dont want this service to be a money sink, when you die with untradable items, your opponent will get the exact coin stack required to reclaim them from mandrith. Money sinking is a hindrance to pvp that should END!

I understand that my proposed idea has potential for abuse and here is my solution:

If you lose an untradable item and have not paid Mandrith the reclaim fee, all further deaths with this specific item will award your opponent the current in-game "untradable item converted-to-coin" drop on death. This will prevent untradeables being farmed for GP.

Examples of untradeables:
Ava's accumulator, fire cape, tok-haar capes, mage arena god capes, god books, korasi sword, fighter torso/barb gear, warpriest, void, blisterwood, surgeon ring, 6th age circuit, excalibur, balmung, barrel chest anchor, dungeoneering gear such as ring of vigour/amulet of zealots/brawler necklace chaotic gear, blood fury necklace, treasure hunter tier-changeable weapons/armour, lunar gear. ETC

Not only does this solve the hassle of retrieving your items, it also makes pking said items profitable.
The New Wild (instanced) <---------> Enhancing Combat and PVP

06-Oct-2016 04:26:37 - Last edited on 19-Oct-2018 07:12:20 by Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Posts: 1,164Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Debilitate


I saw a thread about debilitate, created by dEtOnAtE. He mentioned that most defensive abilities have a 100% chance of working, with the exceptions of bash and debilitate. I really love how your defensive abilities for the most part, don’t require RNG and instead require skill and timing.

He had a video of a friend anticipating his opponent's following large burst of damage by using his debilitate ability. It missed, and he died instantly, from full health. I feel that this is unfair and debilitate should have a 100% hit chance, in line with defence’s other abilities.

Onslaught (melee change)


Currently, all your opponent has to do is walk one square to render this ultimate ability completely useless for melee in skilled pvp. Make it so melee users follow their opponent when using the onslaught ability. Currently, it's far too easy to interrupt and avoid.

Either that, or have it so onslaught does not go by your weapon's reach as melee (you can cast it at a distance, just like mage/range can).

Archmage MC said:
Archmage MC said:
Some skills feel very clunky with the Runescape combat system due to needing to wait for your GCD to finish before you can use them where other games would have them off the GCD so you can react to something your opponent does.

I'm talking about defensive skills like Freedom. To make the game flow better and not feel as clunky, reactive skills like this should have their adrenaline addition removed and be taken off the GCD. It would make PvP far more fun and the like and allow you to have more 'snappy' bosses/boss mechanics.

Provoke was recently taken off of the global cooldown and oh boy, how well it works!
:D
The New Wild (instanced) <---------> Enhancing Combat and PVP

06-Oct-2016 04:26:47 - Last edited on 26-Nov-2018 22:44:07 by Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Posts: 1,164Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Mej said:
Mej said:
when switching a weapon or armour piece, all thresholds and ultimates go on a global cooldown- you can still use a basic immediately after switching.

I really like this idea as currently in pvp, you don't have time to react when your opponent's items are switched.
If you can't react, you can't develop a strategy.


An example of current combat:

Player A is using a short bow. Player A switches to a staff and instantly asphyxiates player B. Player B dies.

An example of proposed updated combat:

Player A is using a short bow. Player A switches to a staff and does a basic ability. Player B realizes the threat of asphyxiate and responds by anticipating. Player A asphyxiates. Player B does a basic stun to counter the asphyxiation. The strategic battle continues.

This is how combat
should
be.

If you HAD to use at least one basic ability after switching a weapon, your opponent would actually have a chance of defending themselves against the upcoming powerful thresholds.

Currently in pvp, you have to guess when your opponent will switch his/her weapon. Pvp should be less of a guessing game and more a battle of reaction time and strategy. In the early days, all abilities went on a global cool down when an item was switched. This made switches incredibly irritating and it shouldn't go back to that. Putting only thresholds/ultimates on a short cool down and not basics is the way to make pvp better. Combat flows and players will now be able to react,
creating strategy
.
The New Wild (instanced) <---------> Enhancing Combat and PVP

06-Oct-2016 04:26:56 - Last edited on 26-Nov-2018 22:45:06 by Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Posts: 1,164Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Pvp made more rewarding by Galahad Sir

"It's a
formula
based on:

-
damage done

-
damage blocked
(which means you get more rewards if your opponent tries)
-
damage avoided by abilities
(again the more they try, the more abilities like e.g. Debilitate reduce damage)

The trick to having enough people is to make the rewards good enough, and fairly distributed enough, that
everyone, good or bad, sees it as a way to profit


- Elo Random queue for opponents means you always have a chance at winning and can't choose to fight your friends/alts
- Kill: Death ratio gets you a bigger share of profitable rewards.
- Ongoing rewards like PvM, not just one time unlocks."

Very interesting way to make your pvp efforts more rewarding. Please have a look at his extensive post on reddit for more details, it's on page two of his thread.
The New Wild (instanced) <---------> Enhancing Combat and PVP

06-Oct-2016 04:27:03 - Last edited on 19-Oct-2018 07:34:05 by Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Posts: 1,164Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Add BH rewards to mobs in wild by Terror Dogs
Stoic n Vain said:Stoic n Vain said:
It's a good idea.

I'd like to add some things.

Since this is BH related, I think the BH reward drops should be restricted to BH worlds only. This way, it will funnel the players hunting for BH drops into BH worlds only, increasing the amount of players on BH worlds and justifying the risk/reward! It will also mean that players good at pvp will be more likely to survive and be deserving of the BH rewards they receive.

The chance of receiving BH drops from PVE should be made a formula and increase by these factors:

- your amount of risk upon immediate death (determined by GE values). Having protect item active will therefore lessen your BH loot chance.
- how deep you are in the wilderness (past 30 is when it starts getting more significant)
- the combat level/difficulty of the monster you killed

For example: a player risking full steel, killing giant rats in level 2 wilderness would have about a 1/2,000,000 chance of receiving a BH reward drop.

A player risking full bandos, killing the chaos elemental in level 54 wilderness would have a 1/2000 chance of receiving a BH reward drop.

Risking being the key word here, meaning he's skulled or has 3 really expensive items which prioritise over his bandos.
The New Wild (instanced) <---------> Enhancing Combat and PVP

06-Oct-2016 04:27:11 - Last edited on 29-Nov-2018 22:39:51 by Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Posts: 1,164Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Deathmatch

As it currently stands, it is more logical for everyone to not use bandages in order to maximise kills/points, which in the end, encourages boosting.

Death match does not reward the players who are bad at pvp. If a player is bad at pvp, they will kill no one and therefore, receive 0 points. Sometimes they’ll get an assist.
This is a disincentive that will ultimately reduce the number of players willing to play/willingness to learn pvp. I’d suggest everyone at least get a few “participation” points from each game.

When a veteran kills a noob, they can just go bank and get more bandages. Rinse and repeat. The noob will never kill the veteran, therefore no points ever awarded for the noob.
Reward the noobs.... reward the veterans significantly more, then everyone is willing to play.

Summoning is not used in Deathmatch. Why then is summoning level contributing to combat level, make it 126+12 please! Fixed!


Bounty hunter

...has been removed now... so... nvm...
The New Wild (instanced) <---------> Enhancing Combat and PVP

06-Oct-2016 04:27:24 - Last edited on 15-Jan-2019 12:13:44 by Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Posts: 1,164Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Take a break


Idea:
Add "PVP minigame" to daily challenges.
Description: Play one whole round of a PVP minigame. (Soul Wars, Fist of Guthix, Castle Wars, Death Match). Reward: 1 treasure hunter key and 100 thaler.
This will hopefully increase PVP minigame activity.


-----in the process of updating these-----

Old issues that I'm yet to test:

Opponent’s health bar in pvp doesn’t update fast enough. I can deal a lot of damage, look at my opponent’s health bar and it hasn’t changed at all. This needs to be fixed.

Also related ^ buffs are not shown accurately, I can count to ten after my opponent has used anticipation and then stun them, while the anticipation icon is still being shown on my opponent’s buff list… that’s not accurate…

When I switch action bars (shift+3), it will also toggle the ability I have set as 3 (which is currently bash). I sometimes want to switch quickly to my shield ability bar to resonance an incoming large hit... but when I switch bar and try to resonance, I’m already doing a bash (and therefore have a 2 second global cooldown). I often get killed due to this issue...
Action bar binding would fix this, but they don't have a main hand+shield equipment action bar bind currently.

Do you still get combat xp for killing a player’s familiar, even when "block pvp xp" is toggled?

Do you still get magic xp when casting teleblock, weaken, confuse, vengeance etc on a player even when block pvp xp is toggled?
The New Wild (instanced) <---------> Enhancing Combat and PVP

06-Oct-2016 04:27:30 - Last edited on 12-Feb-2019 08:29:39 by Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Posts: 1,164Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Why is it that snipe is the only prayer dropping ability that takes time to cast?
Also, prayer drops seem a bit overpowered. I think they should all be like snipe and take time to cast so that the opponent can prepare. Perhaps melee being the only exception... since it has the disadvantage of reach versing casters, this can make up for that.

Add "risk all" and "+1" worlds like in the past. Protect item and fury sharks will not work on risk all worlds. That way, people can go to a risk all world and know that they will get what their opponent has. On +1 worlds, people can use 1 good item and not fear being smited/maced or skull tricked.

Healing with food/bandages and changing equipped items stops your combat initiation.
This is most noticeable when you are melee, fighting a range/mage that is constantly running whilst attacking you. Since they are damaging you, you need to heal. Every time you heal, your attacks discontinue and you briefly stop running. This makes it impossible to retaliate with the exception of the occasional barge once every 20 seconds.

Healing and equipment changes need to be fixed, so that it does not interrupt combat and you can continue fighting, even when your opponent is running.
This is completely broken, and I don’t see melee users enjoying pvp to its fullest until it's fixed.

Confirmed issues that still exist

Many melee abilities won’t work at all when chasing an enemy player (eg shield bash), this needs to be addressed.

Movement abilities do not work in the duel arena. I know there was a bug where the player could move using movement abilities during a "no movement" duel. This should be fixed by disallowing said abilities in no movement duels only.
The New Wild (instanced) <---------> Enhancing Combat and PVP

06-Oct-2016 04:27:43 - Last edited on 26-Nov-2018 00:07:35 by Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Posts: 1,164Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Other combat and PVP related enhancements

Add a toggle for familiar's auto retaliate.

Why does the talon beast familiar get 3 hit auto attacks? This needs to be balanced. Perhaps give other familiars multiple hits too, or faster attack speeds, resulting in improved dps.

Add a bind to the Assault ability.

Could extreme potions be made to reapply the boost, like overloads do? I love the reapply effect of overloads, but sometimes I just want one or two stats buffed as such and don't need the effect of all 5 extreme potions at once. It then seems unnecessarily wasteful to use.

Make it so gear does not degrade in PVP, with the exception of death - where items with charge are untradable. Items that lose charge in this death process should also drop the least amount of coins a player could have possibly spent in order to charge that item to that % of charge. An example: If a player was using a Dharok's platebody that was fully charged and got pked, he would drop a Dharok's platebody (broken) and 128,250 gp. If said platebody was only 20% charged, the coin drop would instead be 25,650 gp. Money sinks are needed for this game, but they should not continue to cripple PVP.

Add raids to reaper assignments Raids for Reaper

In the wilderness and now also in death match, your combat level excludes summoning if you are not using it. This allows your combat level to better reflect your actual combat capabilities and is a far more accurate representation of combat prowess.
I think this should be made more extensive. Accurate CB lvl W/O summon

The New Wild (instanced) - My new wild overhaul (while keeping the current wild the same)
The New Wild (instanced) <---------> Enhancing Combat and PVP

06-Oct-2016 04:27:49 - Last edited on 13-Jan-2019 05:04:00 by Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Posts: 1,164Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Gearing



Penance armour
sets are incomplete. Complete this pvp set for all 3 classes. Allow its tier to be changeable from t40, up to t75. Penance armour should only require defence to wear. For some reason, additional requirements such as 50 strength/ranged/magic have been added - which are stats relating to weapons, not armour.

Update the
Warrior's Guild
, remove the 130 attack+strength requirement and add an npc which can convert the lower level defenders to ranged/magic equivalents.

To spend months getting
superior ports
armour and not get a set effect that is related to tanking, or even combat in general is quite a let down.

Introduce T85 shields and 2h shields!

Tierscape corrections/rework

Regular
excalibur’s
unnecessary shared cooldown. Reg* Excalibur activation bug

It is possible to achieve negative ability damage.
Negative ability damage, bug?

An issue with augmented items and death in the wilderness. Fixed!
Augmented item + death in wild

Original message details are unavailable.
Players dying to non-pvp combat within the wilderness will no longer have their augmented items instantly deleted.

Other:


Cursed Energy. Solved.

Poll combat XP blocking.
(this would work as a toggle, just like how there is currently a toggle to not get XP from PVP).
The New Wild (instanced) <---------> Enhancing Combat and PVP

06-Oct-2016 04:28:03 - Last edited on 05-Mar-2019 01:47:10 by Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Posts: 1,164Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
i just realised that there is potential for abuse...

two friends could fight eachother to get adrenaline up. they stop fighting and one of them then chooses to fight with another player, starting this next fight with full adrenaline.

that sure would be unfair.

now I see why you shouldn't keep your adrenaline/buffs when you begin a fight with another player... O_o
The New Wild (instanced) <---------> Enhancing Combat and PVP

13-Oct-2016 23:44:28 - Last edited on 22-Mar-2017 22:43:36 by Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Posts: 1,164Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
hey vladi, thanks for the support and non-support ;)

sorry for the late reply, i've been busy irl.

i cant seem to make my qfc link work. this is what happens:

[qfc id=]419-420-34-65839564[/qfc]

it puts the required text on either side but when i hit post, it stays there and it doesnt update to become a link... like what is supposed to happen, i assume.
The New Wild (instanced) <---------> Enhancing Combat and PVP

23-Nov-2016 09:10:12 - Last edited on 23-Nov-2016 09:12:35 by Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Posts: 1,164Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The fact is that it's impossible to react instantly. If equipment is changed, you should have a chance to react in order to formulate strategy.

Are you referring to freedom? If not, please explain.

Freedom is a good solution, but the problem is that Asphyxiate +Destroy both have a 20 second cooldown and Freedom has a 30 second cooldown. You can break free of the first one, but not the next one. - That is if you haven't already used freedom on another type of stun or a bleed.

Perhaps Freedom should have a cooldown of 20 seconds? Or make Asphyxiate+Destroy have a cooldown of 30?
The New Wild (instanced) <---------> Enhancing Combat and PVP

23-Jan-2018 00:00:02 - Last edited on 08-Oct-2018 07:58:17 by Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Posts: 1,164Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Thanks Kopaka.

I agree. I think most people don't even bother starting to read the giant mass of text.
The problem is that... I already have many threads. If I divided them even further, I'd probably end up with 40 threads to deal with. I can only bump 1 thread every 10 minutes. I don't have time for that. Perhaps if I get a large chunk of spare time, I might consider doing that.
No promises.

I put most of my personal combat related concerns into this one thread, to make it easier.
I mainly hope that Jagex has, or will read it.
The New Wild (instanced) <---------> Enhancing Combat and PVP

17-Aug-2018 06:20:48

Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Posts: 1,164Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I've actually been working on a far bigger project.

I really don't think I'll be able to compartmentalize this thread. The best I can do is make my points more direct and remove any unnecessary text to shorten and simplify the first page of ideas. I'll also change the title to more specifically reflect what it's about.

This thread will complement the game changing thread that I'm working on.
The New Wild (instanced) <---------> Enhancing Combat and PVP

08-Oct-2018 07:31:14

Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Posts: 1,164Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
@ Xeusi

There are 4 different ability changes/updates that were suggested. Do you dislike them all?
If so, why?

Defence requirements are necessary for armour. I was asking to remove the "weapon-like" stat requirements from armour, such as strength, magic and ranged.

Thanks for your comment and supporting some ideas.
The New Wild (instanced) <---------> Enhancing Combat and PVP

19-Oct-2018 06:16:28 - Last edited on 19-Oct-2018 14:27:47 by Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Posts: 1,164Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
You mean "personal" problems? lol. They are universal.
Those solutions were made by multiple other people, so they certainly are not only "my" personal problems. I simply read their proposal, saw that it was reasonable, supported it and added it here with references. Of course, it's a matter of opinion and you are free to disagree.

It's impossible to accurately anticipate switches, and impossible to react instantly to a switch. This increases luck factor and decreases skill factor and we already have enough RNG promoting luck in pvp, in my opinion. Protective abilities at least are not RNG based, with the single exception of debilitate.

I don't normally onslaught in pvp, but I like to have it as an option if I feel like it. At the moment, it's not an option for melee at all and that's not right.

Did you tell me everything that you have issues with? Do you like the rest of the ideas?
Thanks for posting
The New Wild (instanced) <---------> Enhancing Combat and PVP

20-Oct-2018 04:07:08 - Last edited on 20-Oct-2018 04:18:56 by Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Posts: 1,164Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Original message details are unavailable.
Switching has always been a core mechanic, of pvp, this would be like playing osrs and asking for a delay on gmaul specs after equipping the weapon.
Auto attacks as the main method of attacking were also always a core mechanic in osrs, that changed. EOC made abilities as the main method and almost everything changed with PVP and PVE, even switches did.

I don't know if you were there or remember it, but that's how it was - I'm not making this up. Every time you switched an item, all abilities went on a global cooldown, so you couldn't even attack. Hybridding was almost completely destroyed in the process. It was very irritating, even for me, so they removed it completely. I believe that having just thresh/ulti go on cd was what they really should have done. Combat would still flow and opponents would then able to react to the strong abilities.

Original message details are unavailable.
Hybridding IS skill, not luck.
I agree that hybridding is skill, but I don't believe you are able to apply your skill in defending from someone hybridding, as they can switch and attack instantly and therefore, it's impossible to react unless you have freedom off cd - which I earlier argued that it has a cooldown of 30 seconds, where asphyxiate/destroy has a cooldown of 20 seconds, rendering freedom useful for only 50% of encountered threshold stuns.

If your opponent switches to a staff and instantly asphyxiates, the only thing you can possibly do as a counter method is to use freedom. When (not if) freedom is on cooldown, you cannot do a thing. If your opponent had to do a basic ability first, your whole defence ability book would temporarily be open for use, which would otherwise be unavailable to use if you were instantly asphyxiated. Because it is instant, you cannot react to it with other defensive abilities.
The New Wild (instanced) <---------> Enhancing Combat and PVP

22-Oct-2018 02:58:17 - Last edited on 22-Oct-2018 04:35:50 by Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Posts: 1,164Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Original message details are unavailable.
Debilitate isn't luck based, yes it is RNG
RNG is luck. Lol. It even means random number generation - don't know of a better way to define luck. I know very well that you can improve your luck with better gear and boosting effects, but debilitate will still have a chance to splash.

I know that you want the game to stay the same, but sometimes change is the better option. I believe that my changes are improvements and I want to know if others feel the same or not, so thanks for your comments.

Original message details are unavailable.
It's not an option for range or mage either just escape or stun and it cancels.
At least you need an ability in order to counter it. You can cancel onslaught by walking out of their casting range too, but if you onslaught right next to them, you'll at least get a few hits in before they run out of range. With melee, all the opponent needs to do is step on the tile behind them.

As range/mage you can bind your opponent, anticipate then onslaught. Then they can either take it, or use up freedom and escape, leaving them very vulnerable.

My argument is that it's far less viable to onslaught in pvp as melee. That's not right.
Melee's bind lengths are short, so the above strategy won't work. If you onslaught with melee, it's as simple as stepping on the next tile to interrupt. That's why I want it improved.

Thank you for taking the time to read my thread, telling me what you didn't like and supporting some of my ideas :)
The New Wild (instanced) <---------> Enhancing Combat and PVP

22-Oct-2018 03:15:50 - Last edited on 22-Oct-2018 04:26:17 by Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

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@ Nex is life

I guess we have different definitions/understandings of what we think luck is.
Thanks again for your opinion on what you like and what you don't like.

Original message details are unavailable.
nice
Thanks :)

Original message details are unavailable.
mutated barge op!
I have not used it yet, but have seen it on youtube. I like the fact that it hits more damage for the longer you are away from your opponent. What I'm not sure about is making strong thresholds - especially assault a DOT - meaning you can continue with additional dps while that powerful threshold is active. This is just too much damage. One thing I wonder about and that is: does freedom clear that dot? If it doesn't I think it's definitely op. If freedom does clear it, I haven't decided yet. Thanks for mentioning that ability here :)

Original message details are unavailable.
None of your suggestions would solve anything
Thanks for your explanation and extensive contribution
The New Wild (instanced) <---------> Enhancing Combat and PVP

09-Nov-2018 06:24:52 - Last edited on 09-Nov-2018 06:30:48 by Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Posts: 1,164Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Thank you Princess Rae :)

This thread was initially placed in the "Combat Council" forum, which is to be removed on the third of December. It was a perfect fit in its previous location, but now the only two relevant forum options are Existing Game Content and Game Content Suggestions. This thread offers new ideas and improvements to what exists - so it's a combination of the two.
The New Wild (instanced) <---------> Enhancing Combat and PVP

26-Nov-2018 22:33:17 - Last edited on 26-Nov-2018 23:31:06 by Stoic n Vain

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