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Broken PvP mechanics

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Fenforge

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Ability to teleport on the same tick as being teleblocked.

Removal of teleportation whilst in combat within the Wilderness. ( 5 tick delay after last combat hit. )

Obtaining a skull from attacking a player just as they teleport without doing any damage. ( Not even hitting a 0. )

Ability to box NPCs without the attacking player being able to override the NPC, which was possible with magic in Classic.

This could extend to simply making the perimetre of the Npc's walking radius to that of multi instead of single.

Single zones would still remain, just now ie ; The Wilderness Graveyards wouldn't be used as an O.P escape route. Same with Green dragons & numerous other spawns.

This'd be only applied to the Wilderness. Some Npc's walking radius's may need to be altered in order to prevent O.P farming methods. Howbeit, even if some are farmed more easily, ie ; Magic axes, the balance would come from the extra Risk which would remove a good chunk of the expected profits.

Bots would find this a major issue.

-------------------
The other alternative would be to allow players to be attacked by 1 Npc & 1 player in Single zones, if the engine allows for it.



Ladder & cave entrance abuse

Wilderness ladders & cave entrances are continually abused to wear down the 10 second combat time to aid players logging out.

Put a 5 tick delay on both ladders & cave entrances after the initial entry or climb.
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14-May-2018 05:02:35 - Last edited on 06-Dec-2018 12:59:54 by Fenforge

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Maat said:

Probably an engine limitation. You could argue to delay teleportation by 0.6 ticks, but that would ruin more than it would "repair".

Maat said:

I wouldn't mind seeing this changed, but a skull is supposed to be the result of your intention to kill another player. And again, this might be an engine limitation.

Maat said:

I get where you're coming from, but since we're no longer in Classic and overriding single-way NPC combat has never been possible in RS2, this isn't an integrity issue. Since far less than 75% of all players are PKers, this would never pass a poll.


You seem to have an understanding of the engine limitations that the Unity 5 product offers, perhaps you could show some examples why these requests may not be possible?

I do like to go by the belief that anything is possible with a computer/program.

Though these are the main reasons why I get so annoyed with this game, & perhaps why Andrew Gower is building his new engine from scratch?
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16-May-2018 03:32:34

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Maat said:

I'm not familiar with Unity 5, but I do know the basics of engine programming. Logically, a game's requests and its accompanying if-statements are handled before the actions themselves. Since RS runs on a tick system, this delay could be up to 0.6 seconds.

I'll try to visualize what could be the case for the teleblock issue. For clarity, I'll measure the time in ticks ("0t").


Player A casts teleport between 0t and 1t.
Teleblock check returns "false".
Action queued and to be issued at 1t.

Player B casts teleport between 0t and 1t.
Action queued and to be issued at 1t.
From 1t onward, player A's teleport requests will have the teleblock check return "true".

Since player A's teleport request was handled before 1t (before receiving the teleblock), player B's teleblock was not checked. Therefore, player A's teleport is not interrupted.

Could the teleport phase not be extended to that of :


("0t")("2t") ?

Whilst the player casting teleblock would only be subjected to that of :

("0t")("1t") ?
Maat said:

You could compare it to making changes to the inner structure of a skyscraper after it has been built.

We could always build around the existing structure in order to make these changes?
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16-May-2018 14:44:35

Fenforge

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Maat said:

It all depends on when the conditions for an action (teleporting) are checked. If it happens the moment the player clicks on the spell, the only result of bringing the teleport phase to 0t-2t is a delay in the teleport itself, which wouldn't make sense.

However, if the teleport request's condition checks could be moved to 1t, it could technically work. However, could you imagine how gimmicky and "unnatural" it would feel to be teleported another 0.6 seconds later?

This would only need to be implemented when a player is in the Wilderness or a PvP world, to avoid the " unnatural " feel.

Though I'm guessing this could be quite a headache, as with what you've typed below.
Maat said:

Well...

Imagine all actions of the entire game going through the same single piece of base code that says "check conditions, add the resulting action to the queue of actions for the next game tick". It'd be very inefficient, if not virtually impossible, to make an exception for teleportation only. For every action, you'll have to check whether or not the request is for teleportation or not, which would severely impact the code's performance.

Would it be possible for the engine to double check the teleport action, which would result in a double tick? ( 2 x 0.6 )

& still the teleblock spell would only need to be checked once. ( 1 x 0.6 )
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16-May-2018 15:29:32

Fenforge

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Fenforge said:

Ability to box NPCs without the attacking player being able to override the NPC, which was possible with magic in Classic.


When doing clue scrolls, if a player is to fight a clue step boss when in a single combat-zone & is already being attacked. The clue step boss will override the attacking npc & take priority.

This line of code could be applied to PvP possibly?


Edited O.P
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22-May-2018 08:57:55 - Last edited on 22-May-2018 08:58:10 by Fenforge

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FisherGaming said:

3. This defeats the purpose of single-combat areas. What you're asking for is for multi-combat. Those zones exist. Go there.

No, player's should override an attacking Npc.

You could do this in Classic, & it should've been brought over in the transition.
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28-May-2018 04:57:07

Fenforge

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FisherGaming said:
I don't care how things were done in Classic. This isn't Classic.

That's fine, but one cannot disregard the origins of this game.
FisherGaming said:

Think about why that was changed moving forward.

1. Poor game mechanics?
2. The WoW bandwagon?
3. Was simply overlooked?

Perhaps you know more about the game engine that you're unwilling to divulge about?

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29-May-2018 05:52:15

Fenforge

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FisherGaming said:

Single combat applies to both players and monsters. With how the game's system works, you could potentially attack someone as they get hit rather hard by a monster, then combo them out while they are low, or even just attack them to grief them and make them unable to attack the monster due to already being attacked.

Well it'd be up to the player to watch their health bar then.......

There's no such thing as " grief " in Runescape. Whilst a player may be getting the business, that same player has the ability to fight back the player that is attacking them.

This is a poor excuse.

Fenforge said:

When doing clue scrolls, if a player is to fight a clue step boss when in a single combat-zone & is already being attacked. The clue step boss will override the attacking npc & take priority.

FisherGaming said:

With help, you could possibly steal the credit of another player's monster kills by attacking them before they do enough damage, and finishing the monster that they were working on.

& there's an unlimited amount of npc"s to kill. They just keep spawning.........
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29-May-2018 09:48:10

Fenforge

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FisherGaming said:

Ah, the age old "just fight back" response.

That might've worked back in the day when there were basically only 4 types of armor, and Runite was best for everything, and "fighting back" was as easy as left clicking your opponent and hoping your RNG was better, but that doesn't fly now.

The game is wildly different than it used to be, and such a response is simply invalid. PvMers aren't PvPers, and their gear choices and inventory setup reflect that.

No.

Wilderness PvM influences the player to have a unique inventory setup. Most Wilderness PvMer's carry 2 PvP styles if needed.

FisherGaming said:

I'm saying that two griefers could just attack you after you deal some damage to a monster, then the other person can kill that monster after you've done most of the work. They get the credit for it. Next one spawns, same thing, because they just keep attacking you to disrupt your combat with the monster.

Bring some allies perhaps?

It's meant to be a M.M.O after all..........
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29-May-2018 10:01:28

Fenforge

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FisherGaming said:

You want it to be possible to attack someone who is already under attack by monsters,

Yes, & interrupt that combat. Obviously the npc would stop attacking at that point.
FisherGaming said:

but you don't want to make it possible to attack someone already under attack by another player.

Yes to this also, but kept as it is currently. I'm sure it's 2 eats & you can attack. ( I've done my fair share of pile jumping. )
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29-May-2018 10:31:58 - Last edited on 29-May-2018 10:32:12 by Fenforge

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FisherGaming said:

Answer my question: How will having allies help if they aren't allowed to defend you when you're already under attack by another player?

Your allies could be harvesting resources from the same spot & attack the other player's allies.

It basically breaks down to players hiding behind a npc to avoid PvP combat.

As stated before, magic could override this in Classic, even if both players were in combat with a npc, they could still cast magic on each other.

Magic does seem to be a fair trade, it's not O.P with its hits & requires runes.

Players are always asking for magic to be buffed, & this does seem like a better trade off, rather than magic hitting 65+ dps.


In Classic to, players couldn't teleport whilst in combat, this also had the 10 ticks cool down timer.
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31-May-2018 11:30:58

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Nikolas10181 said:

I don't define combat as somebody who removes their weapon with the intent to prevent the kill from happening so they can avoid PvP. Asking to be able to jump in when somebody is clearly not going to kill the monster isn't exploiting anything it's called actually being able to PvP which is what the wilderness is intended for.

^ This.

Also edited O.P to include not being able to teleport whilst in combat within the Wilderness.
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21-Jun-2018 07:25:25

Fenforge

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Updated O.P

Fenforge said:
Ability to box NPCs without the attacking player being able to override the NPC, which was possible with magic in Classic.


This could extend to simply making the perimetre of the Npc's walking radius to that of multi instead of single.

Single zones would still remain, just now ie ; The Wilderness Graveyards wouldn't be used as an O.P escape route. Same with Green dragons & numerous other spawns.

This'd be only applied to the Wilderness. Some Npc's walking radius's may need to be altered in order to prevent O.P farming methods. Howbeit, even if some are farmed more easily, ie ; Magic axes, the balance would come from the extra Risk which would remove a good chunk of the expected profits.

Bots would find this a major issue.

-------------------
The other alternative would be to allow players to be attacked by 1 Npc & 1 player in Single zones, if the engine allows for it.
MP1 ... ?
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25-Jul-2018 01:32:32 - Last edited on 25-Jul-2018 01:32:55 by Fenforge

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On the Bounty Hunter world, it appears that players can override attacking Npc's to attack their target.

Could this coding not be applied somehow to all of PvP at a cost?
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31-Jul-2018 23:18:18

Fenforge

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Fenforge said:
On the Bounty Hunter world, it appears that players can override attacking Npc's to attack their target.

Could this coding not be applied somehow to all of PvP at a cost?

Jaydos said:

Yeah it could and it should.

Once the first attack on another player has occurred, a 10 tick loop that allows both players not to be attacked by any nearby Npc's, & if another attack happens, the 10 tick loop could just repeat, as not to make the Npc's that need to be aggressive to protect key resources.
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19-Aug-2018 01:16:15

Fenforge

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Fenforge said:

Ability to box NPCs without the attacking player being able to override the NPC, which was possible with magic in Classic.

This could be be an ability only offered to player's that have a PvP skull above their head.
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16-Sep-2018 00:30:32 - Last edited on 16-Sep-2018 00:31:29 by Fenforge

Fenforge

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LunaTickz said:
Not sure how this mechanic is "broken." You chose to engage in a zone where teleports are available.

Which is almost 75% of The Wilderness.... O_o Stop.
LunaTickz said:

On the other hand you attacked someone who hasn't attacked you first, and you deserve the skull 100%.

& I deserve my hit then.

& do remember in Classic, a player couldn't teleport whilst in combat.

See the comparison?
LunaTickz said:

You've allowed enough time to get combat with another npc. If whoever you're attacking got a box ever you should consider it a failed kill. If they can box an npc they can box an alt/other player.

& you've answered half the equation, so I'll finish the other half for you.

That same player can turn off auto-retaliate, & then let a NPC attack you. So then it interrupts the PvP combat.

& yet once again, in Classic, Magic offered the ability to cast it whilst in combat.

It wasn't an issue then.
LunaTickz said:

The solution to this is to team up with someone and control both sides.

Yet it was an issue that was addressed in D.M.M with a simple delay after the first entry.

Care to go some more?
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03-Oct-2018 23:25:01 - Last edited on 03-Oct-2018 23:56:26 by Fenforge

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LunaTickz said:
Made up number. You've only addressed one of two alternatives and ignored the other. Sure let's say your made up number is accurate, the point still stands.

Go & count all the tiles & prove me wrong..
LunaTickz said:

Sure it was like that in classic, but you have no point beyond that.

& it worked in Classic, player's were not able to teleport from combat. Why was it changed?
LunaTickz said:

No one knows why it being like this in classic matters. Why do you keep bringing this up? It's not an issue if you don't literally stop attacking people long enough for them to box something.

The ability for player's to mage whilst still in combat with a NPC prevented player's from X-ing the client, in such areas as the Axe Hut, as too it would serve the purpose on Oldschool from the ability to box NPC's to avoid PvP combat. & combined with the subtraction of teleporting whilst in combat, would make for a greater Wilderness. That we once had, & deserve again.
LunaTickz said:

It's a different game mode, and you're not even replying to the point that an alternative does exist. It's only an issue if you have chosen to limit yourself and refuse to use basic strategy.

It's still PvP based, & this's a PvP issue.
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04-Oct-2018 04:06:27

Fenforge

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A part resolution has been achieved.

Anti-spam Change to Rev Caves Entrance

" Players are now prevented from spamming the entrance/exit to the Revenant caves to avoid PKers. This applies to all game modes and will not be restricted to Deadman.
"
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06-Dec-2018 13:04:06

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