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Lore Corner Podcast: Armadyl

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AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

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His ideals, I think, demand great respect for the individual participants in dialog - so he can't easily shrug off the death of many (though martyrdom is still possible) - and his ideals prohibit the sort of thinking that says, 'Either we terrorize them, or they terrorize us.' Rather, dialog presupposes that there is some good to be had for all parties; it's not zero-sum.

Finally, this philosophy, which I am proposing for Armadyl, makes things difficult for him in one further manner: it would be very difficult for him to justify deceiving someone - since that totally goes against the ideals of reason, justice, and dialog. Rather, deception must be restricted to warfare, and carefully regulated, such that all deception is used, ultimately, to bring others to their senses, to reveal deeper truths, rather than merely to lead others to their defeat.

12-Apr-2016 23:28:27 - Last edited on 12-Apr-2016 23:30:32 by AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

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Pad*menes, I want to make a further point to distinguish Armadyl's philosophy from much of the thinking of the Enlightenment, but it's going to require another thread. In short, I think Armadyl will have a certain relationship to what I will call mysticism which the Enlightenment thinkers largely did not have, or at least did not consider central to their works - minus someone like Pascal perhaps, who does report mystical experiences.

14-Apr-2016 05:05:55

Padomenes
Apr Member 2015

Padomenes

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Its also possible the philosophies of Armadyl, Saradomin and Seren alike might also be inspired by Jean Jacques Rousseau btw. Like one part of each split apart.
Saradominist
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INFP(Possibly also ENFP)
, Democratic Socialist irl

14-Apr-2016 07:31:24

AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

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Padomenes said:
Its also possible the philosophies of Armadyl, Saradomin and Seren alike might also be inspired by Jean Jacques Rousseau btw. Like one part of each split apart.

I doubt it, though Rousseau has ideas that I'm sure show up in many places. Rather, I think Jagex's characterization has gone through stages and follows many methods. At one point, the gods Saradomin, Zamorak, and Guthix were good, evil, and neutral. Then, as other gods were added, they were largely matched to particular races and communities: Saradomin - humans, Zamorak - vampyres and werewolves, Guthix - gnomes and dwarves, Seren - elves, Armadyl - Aviantese, Menaphite Pantheon - Menaphite race of humans, V - Fremennik humans, Karamjan gods - Karamjan humans, Brassica - vegetables, 'camel god' - camels, etc. When the faction system was created, each god was matched to a certain set of philosophical ideals - this is where resonances with Rousseau might have appeared, but I think the ideals chosen for the gods come from more recent cultural sources and only indirectly from Rousseau. Then, sometimes Jagex draws on great characters, such as Milton's Lucifer for Zamorak.

I wish this last mode were more prominent - so that the character is something more felt and experienced than explained. I think if the focus was on character, on making great characters, then the story would be more impressive. I get frustrated when I hear worries about a god needing a flaw - I think if the Jmods competed to create the deepest, most interesting, most impressive characters they could (e.g. with a lot of dialogue rather than lore than lists their good qualities), then the differences among them, their advantages and disadvantages would emerge naturally - and would probably reflect the subtle differences of ideals among the Jmods and their player base and among society.

14-Apr-2016 11:59:39

A Mighty
Dec Member 2018

A Mighty

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This is the best read I've had on here in a long time. Thanks Attila :)

Regarding Armadyl, I find the aspect of reason interesting. Upholding reason does seem to go along with his ideals, though I don't think he was exactly "upholding reason" with what he was doing in the 3rd age. Maybe he realized that as part of his "Phoenix" transformation?

Also, I've been Armadylean since Emissaries and I supported his decision to kill Bandos. He and his followers were simply mercenaries who switched sides frequently to ensure the most bloodshed as possible. Remember that no race is native to Gielinor-- they were all brought from some other plane at one time or another. Achieving harmony in the Perfect World is a noble enough goal. And I support him because he isn't afraid to fight when he absolutely has to. If I wanted a complete pacifist I would have chosen Seren. (And I would probably have been pretty unhappy with the fact that her faction is represented in gwd2- but I haven't seen anyone call her a "hypocrite" because of that...)

Oh, and it's confirmed that he still believes the rest of the gods can be reasoned with. We'll probably see him try the diplomatic route during the Finale.
To those cursed by war and pest, Come into the light of Armadyl and rest. This is the law of Armadyl.

16-Apr-2016 22:06:46 - Last edited on 16-Apr-2016 22:08:11 by A Mighty

A Mighty
Dec Member 2018

A Mighty

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Yeah, I saw that thread, but it seemed like the conversation moved here.

What I want to know is, what exactly is the evidence for the theory that Armadyl is going to become subservient to Zaros?? Because I keep hearing people say that. It is true that they have no reason to be enemies (unless Armadyl discovers what Zaros did on Abbinah, and even then he'd at least let Zaros explain himself..), but it seems like their goals are vastly different (note that in FOT*, Zaros basically said that his goal is a combination of the goal of all factions. But then there's the whole becoming fate thing, which I don't think Armadyl will like very much...)
To those cursed by war and pest, Come into the light of Armadyl and rest. This is the law of Armadyl.

18-Apr-2016 20:53:27

Hazeel

Hazeel

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A Mighty said:
What I want to know is, what exactly is the evidence for the theory that Armadyl is going to become subservient to Zaros??


This is based on a J Mod quote that stated Armadyl would be willing to become subserviant to Zaros if Zaros told him he had no plans for a second empire.
Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

18-Apr-2016 21:09:42

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