Forums

NAILBEASTS!!!1

Quick find code: 341-342-861-65775379

of 2
Cthris

Cthris

Posts: 5,189Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
AttilaSquare said:

I'm taking this largely from Plato and Aristotle. Both of them literally define soul as the life of a body. They define death as the separation of the soul from the body, so the soul itself never dies. (See Pha(c)edo and De Anima.) Unfortunately, they don't do much to explain the individuation of souls, which most RuneScape lore takes for granted - only the gnomes have spoken differently, of death as a return to the Anima Mundi, but I don't know how much this still holds. Aquinas seeks to rectify this at Summa Theologiae I.76. Scotus and Leibniz and others have also attempted to explain the individuation of souls, but I don't know the references.


Right off the bat I'm going to say that I'm not super familiar with metaphysics. However, I know a little bit.

Right, so as you said they define death as the separation of the soul from the body so that the soul itself never dies. In the Theory of the Forms, Plato insists that the soul exists in the Form before the individual life of the person.

So what we can gather is that souls are independent of life, and death. They can persist before both states.

Now unlike our real life, in RuneScape, life, death, and souls can all be expressed as energies. We know life and death exist on the same spectrum. If souls exist before life, as Plato suspects, that means soul energy cannot be life energy.

Instead, I believe souls are rather the object that life and death energy act upon. When you combine soul energy with life energy you create life. If you later remove the life energy/body ,thus creating death energy in the void, you create death.

The claim that the soul is the life of the body would still be correct. The body/life cannot have life without the soul, and vice versa.

15-Apr-2016 17:33:50

Cthris

Cthris

Posts: 5,189Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
If we are going to incorporate Platonic thought into the various energies in Runescape. I think it would be a lot easier to see soul energy instead on a creation-destruction spectrum.

Also in regards to Leibniz. Are you perhaps referring to The Monadology? Which I don't see so much as talking about the individual soul. The Monadology states that souls are created by these individual, indivisible units called Monads that cannot be influenced by an outward influence. In short, the Monads are God, and God is our souls.

It's the same deal here as with Plato. Obviously, Leibniz does not mean to say that God did not exist before life, and he obviously does not die after the death of the person. So he/souls cannot exist on the same spectrum of life and death energy.

15-Apr-2016 17:35:39 - Last edited on 15-Apr-2016 17:42:37 by Cthris

AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

Posts: 1,693Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Cthris said:
Right, so as you said they define death as the separation of the soul from the body so that the soul itself never dies. In the Theory of the Forms, Plato insists that the soul exists in the Form before the individual life of the person.
I agree.
Cthris said:
{c}So what we can gather is that souls are independent of life, and death. They can persist before both states.
This is tricky. For Aristotle, the soul/life is an activity rather than a substance, and death is a lack of such activity. So the idea of death as a 'separation' of body and soul is somewhat metaphorical until the activity of individual souls is more clearly individuated. For Plato, this 'separation' means that the body no longer participates in the Idea of Soul.

15-Apr-2016 22:17:45

AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

Posts: 1,693Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Cthris said:
Now unlike our real life, in RuneScape, life, death, and souls can all be expressed as energies. We know life and death exist on the same spectrum. If souls exist before life, as Plato suspects, that means soul energy cannot be life energy.

Instead, I believe souls are rather the object that life and death energy act upon. When you combine soul energy with life energy you create life. If you later remove the life energy/body ,thus creating death energy in the void, you create death.

The claim that the soul is the life of the body would still be correct. The body/life cannot have life without the soul, and vice versa.
I am unsure of how to handle the idea of energy, since I don't see much of a resemblance between the modern physical concept, which involves abstraction and quantification, and the Aristotelian concept of energeia. Maybe I can understand the idea of a spectrum of magical elements - but I will need to spend some time digesting it, maybe this weekend. In the past, I've approached the magical elements as somehow drawing out meaningful components of our experience of the world. This approach and the approach to elements as manifestations of energy on a spectrum are not mutually exclusive, but I have begun with the former.

15-Apr-2016 22:18:36

AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

Posts: 1,693Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
This is something I wrote before on the soul rune, which might be of interest here:Original message details are unavailable.
I would also love to develop an account of why this is the last of the regular runes and suggest some mechanics for its crafting. First, I think each of the magical elements has at one time or another been suggested as the most important aspect of being:

air - This was associated with life, with persistence in being, and this seems to escape a body at death, before it disintegrates.
mind - Whereas air does not indicate for us the direction of life or way that it develops, mind does, to some degree: mind directs things intelligently, according to purposes.
water - Water is something both necessary to life and dangerous to it; obscure in great quantity yet clear in less quantity. I think it has long brought to mind the abstract notion of possibility - which is necessary and dangerous, obscure or clear, and extending beyond what is, embracing all that ever could be.
earth - This has represented stability, regeneration, and the singularity of things. At times these notions have been entertained as the most fundamental dimensions of being...
Etc.

I could continue through each rune, for at one time or another what each has represented has been proposed as the most important principle. I think this progression culminates in soul. This is the wholly invisible; it can have no shortcomings as a metaphor - instead it can only have shortcomings in its conceptual development.

Furthermore, I think in light of it we can more easily recognize dualities among the magical elements in the preceding dialectical inquiry, e.g. mind and body, nature and law, cosmos and chaos, death and blood.
This follows a similar line of thought.

15-Apr-2016 22:19:17

AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

Posts: 1,693Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
So I don't have much of an argument to make, besides questioning the ontological assumption behind treating the soul as a 'thing' in various states, but that does not yet amount to much. I hope to post a new thread on anima, magic, sorcery, worlds, etc. soon in which I can work out these ideas a little further.

With regard to Leibniz, that is probably where I am drawing this from. His Principle of Discernability is also a principle of individuation.

15-Apr-2016 22:19:42

Ahtelhrax
Feb Member 2018

Ahtelhrax

Posts: 475Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hguoh said:
Take a look at Zilyana's bodyguards:

There's Starlight (a unicorn), Bree (a centaur), and Growler (a lion).

Unicorns are fairly easy to find around RS and we know most centaurs were killed during the God Wars. Lions, however, seem to have vanished without a trace. Odd, wouldn't you say?

Well we already know that the vampyres can convert members of other races into a form more similar to theirs. Humans become Vampire j**inates, Icyene become Vyrewatch, and Skypouncers become Bloodpouncers.

All things considered, I think that Nail Beasts are the result of vampires converting lions.


If the vyrewatch are icyene, like i once thought? Then why are the vyrewatch and other vyres other than true-bloods referred to as Human-born?

17-Apr-2016 11:36:10

Quick find code: 341-342-861-65775379Back to Top