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Why dont lunar ppl need runes?

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Hodge192

Hodge192

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Lego Miester said:


It's basically the law of Wil E Coyote physics. You won't fall until you look down.


I guess I don't like the idea of "Wil E coyote physics" in this because it makes the lore sound frivolous (to me). "anything goes, if you don't look down you won't fall".

It's not bad, it just isn't a flavor of lore/game design that I like as much, so I want to admit that bias now (so, you might very well be right). It would feel much more in-depth to me if magic in the game had nuances that allowed npcs like the Ga'al and Moon clan to not need runes. In otherwords, I think it is more interesting for there to be actual reasons for magic being like this for these npcs.

The Ga'al may have had an advantage of not having preconceived understanding, so he gained a different view point/understanding of magic that doesn't require runes. He might have had a different connection to anima than we do. (just throwing ideas out there.) The Lunar clan may have reached a similar understanding.

Edit: anyway, I hope this doesn't sound like putting down the "Wil E Coyote" theory, it could be correct. It just isn't the flavor of lore/game design that I like as much.

09-Aug-2015 23:12:25 - Last edited on 09-Aug-2015 23:46:38 by Hodge192

Hguoh
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2014

Hguoh

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Hodge192 said:
The Ga'al may have had an advantage of not having preconceived understanding, so he gained a different view point/understanding of magic that doesn't require runes. He might have had a different connection to anima than we do. (just throwing ideas out there.) The Lunar clan may have reached a similar understanding.

Edit: anyway, I hope this doesn't sound like putting down the "Wil E Coyote" theory, it could be correct. It just isn't the flavor of lore/game design that I like as much.


I think you're on the right track. Nobody told the Ga'al that he needed runes, and he only learned his invisibility spell by watching the Tzhaar-Mej. As a result, he learned how to do magic without them since he had no reason to believe they were necessary.

Wizard Elriss has a bit of dialogue based on Wizard Finix's theory of Runic Siphoning. She essentially says that some wizards believe that you can siphon runic energy (for runes or spells) from Gielinor, but you'd need to be an immensely powerful and talented Runecrafter.

Now, the Lunar clan does appear to be an example of the immensely talented Runecrafter bit of that, but what of the Ga'al? Personally, I think he found another way of Runic Siphoning that, due to his lack of instruction, doesn't involve the traditional skills of Runecrafting.

10-Aug-2015 00:45:00 - Last edited on 10-Aug-2015 00:45:37 by Hguoh

The Mather1
May Gold Premier Club Member 2008

The Mather1

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Wil-E-Coyote physics isn't quite right. There is a reason why some people need runes and some don't.
That reason being that spellcasting is a complex process, you have to shape anima into the form of whatever effect you need. The runes are here a crutch, their association with basic concepts helps with a sort of autohypnosis to get your thought process right. Meanwhile people who don't need runes either have enough intelligence, understanding or talent for magic to imagine the process without them.
"Abscondita est in Astra."

10-Aug-2015 05:09:28

Hodge192

Hodge192

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Based on Hguoh's and The Mather1's posts, I remembered two other examples of rune-free magic casting.

Kennith form the sea slug quests did not use runes (I think). I tried looking up the dialogue since it has been a long time since I did the quest, but I could only find this.
Original message details are unavailable.
Player: How did you get so good at magic?
Kennith:
Well, to me it's not really magic.

Player: Not magic? But you can teleport, cast spells...
Kennith: Yeah, but
to me it's as easy as breathing. You just call it 'magic' because you don't understand why it works.

Player: Could you teach others to cast spells like you?
Kennith: I could try. Ask me again later. We've got a job to do.


The lore and Histories page also has a short story “A True and Concise Histroy of the discovery of runes”, which might imply rune-free magic. It is a view point that contradicts The Mather1's post, but the Moonclan Manual supports Mather1's post.

“A True and Concise Histroy of the discovery of runes”:
Original message details are unavailable.
"And as we trained and studied, our powers grew stronger and more unbelievable... I saw men moving objects with just the power of their mind, others turning useless items into the purest gold!

"
But these skills and powers were not the greatest discovery that we made. It was discovered that we could take these powers
and magicks,
and bind them into solid objects
which we called rune stones, for each had been marked with the rune symbol of the Magick which we had bound into it."

"
These stones could then be given to someone who had not studied nor trained with our group
- and the Magickal energies bound within them could be released at will."

The highlighted part in the above quote could imply that these wizards could work their magic with out runes, and to them runecrafting was a way for sharing magic with those that had not learned from their order.

continued

11-Aug-2015 09:18:21 - Last edited on 11-Aug-2015 09:35:12 by Hodge192

Hodge192

Hodge192

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Moonclan Manual:
Original message details are unavailable.
The first major misconception
relating to magic
is that the stones we use for our arts somehow contain magic within them.


Although roughly correct,
to believe this is how magic works limits your understanding of our own potential, and will prevent you ever achieving the feats which we are all capable of.


Rather, the 'rune stones' that we shape to our purposes serve to focus your own power, rather than containing the power themselves.


Of course, depending on what you (The Mather1) meant by “crutch”, both the moonclan manual and the short story (“a concise history of the discovery of runes”) might support what you are saying. But because you mentioned autohypnosis, I assumed you are siding with the moonclan's interpretation of “a focus” and not the short story's interpretation.

Anyway, to summarize my last two posts, there are multiple examples of rune-free magic, and it could come down to understanding magic more deeply and looking at magic from other view points.
The Ga'al and Kennith never learned our approach of magic, and were therefore free of preconceived notions that might have prevented them from gaining more understanding. The Moonclan (and possibly the wizards in that short story) have also progressed to the point where they don't need runes.

Edit: actually, I can' summarize it as well as I'd hoped (it's late), but Hguoh's and The Mather1's posts are basically what I'm thinking too. Hopefully the Quest dialogue from Kennith, the short story, and the moonclan manual are interesting sources for this thread. :D.

11-Aug-2015 09:18:51 - Last edited on 11-Aug-2015 10:22:30 by Hodge192

Hazeel
May Member 2011

Hazeel

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Because they actually understand magic and are good at it. Sedridor is a noob living in a institution that is bogged by religion. If the old tower hadn't set up teleportation, it would have never been rediscovered again. The Saradominist dogma and racism against demons wouldn't have allowed it. As such, I doubt that tower will ever truly understand magic.

And Dahmaroc is lower than a noob, he is skilling filth. He would never truly understand magic.
Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

04-Jun-2016 02:10:59

Sepulchre
Feb Member 2019

Sepulchre

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Basically what Hodge said.
The Moonclan has become so attuned to Magic itself that they no longer need the runes to tune their energy to the right place, they are able to do so on their own. It's a true mastery of magic that would be too broken if players were allowed to do so. Rather than needing runestones to guide their magical abilities to do what they want, they can simply use the power of will and power of mind over matter to force the energies within them.
A
World Guardian
must learn to find
Balance
in themselves.
Only then can they
Control
themselves and forge their own
Fate.

06-Jun-2016 05:42:08

Beowulfe
Feb Member 2017

Beowulfe

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Okay, think of runes as an english-to-french dictionary, and you as yourself.


You're not mute if you don't have the dictionary, but you might as well be if you're trying to speak french without it. Eventually, you'll pick up some translations over time, and not need the dictionary.

In other words, you provide the mana, the runes provide the fire. The more you understand runes and magic, the less you need runes.


However, you might be interested in this story from runescape's "Lores and Histories" section:

https://www.runescape.com/lore/the-discovery-of-runes

So yeah, it's never been impossible to be independent from runes, and I'm sure the player is smart and magically powerful enough to learn how to do so. Obviously, this would cause the economy to collapse since an entire market would be obsolete, and with a player-centric economy, both the mage's guild and the runecrafter's guild would be none too happy if we stopped using runes, so I guess we'll have to settle for using them.

25-Aug-2016 14:13:40 - Last edited on 04-Sep-2016 13:11:18 by Beowulfe

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