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Vandinite
Nov Gold Premier Club Member 2018

Vandinite

Posts: 122Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hi, I recently got a VPN a couple weeks ago, and when using it and getting on RS, my other main account got locked stating there was suspicious activity - clearly because my IP was not the regular one. This is troubling news, because I don't have the E-mail for that account anymore, it was locked for no reason, which Jagex should be held accountable in the first place since this is not my fault, and I have a good bit of gold invested into that account and have bought membership for it as well as this account.

So I sent in appeals, but they continue to be AUTO-denied. I put in an appeal - it got denied in the first few seconds, appearing to not get reviewed at all, I put in more, denied in the first few seconds - in fact after I submit the appeal I immediately get an e-mail regarding that my request has been denied - they are clearly not being reviewed. And I filled everything out. I put in the correct password, correct payment type, correct last four digits of card number, correct billing zip code, correct billing state, correct billing e-mail, didn't provide the ID because clearly I do not have e-mail access for it as it states you get it via your e-mail and the point of the appeal submission was BECAUSE I do not have my e-mail, correct original account creation before VPN (both country and state), correct Internet Service Provider, stated that I have not moved and addressed that I used a VPN - AND YET with all of that correct information, my appeals are being auto-denied within the first few seconds, appearing to not get reviewed at all.

What is going on, what am I supposed to do? How is this even my fault? I spent money on this.
Change isn't going to come to you. Take control of your life.

10-Aug-2019 23:45:07 - Last edited on 10-Aug-2019 23:51:40 by Vandinite

Vandinite
Nov Gold Premier Club Member 2018

Vandinite

Posts: 122Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Added question - how would one go about with legal implications via Jagex if one's account is locked after they payed for membership, can provide proof that they own the account, but are denied access to a service they payed for automatically. Cheers. Change isn't going to come to you. Take control of your life.

10-Aug-2019 23:49:36

Moneybucks
Nov Gold Premier Club Member 2018

Moneybucks

Posts: 7,836Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I doubt you have a legal recourse. The terms and conditions you agree to by playing grant Jagex the right to revoke access to your account at any time. That's just something you're asking because you're frustrated, which is unrealistic, if understandable.

But having your account locked is not the same as having it banned, so it shouldn't be the case that you can't sort it out either. Auto denies happen when the basic information you provide is incorrect, or you haven't provided enough of it. You may believe that you're providing the correct information, but if it's being automatically rejected in the timeframes you say, you aren't. It'll be the previous passwords and the like that are wrong, I suspect. If you pass the basic checks, it will get reviewed by a human, after some few days or so.

Not having access to the registered email address is not a good thing - that's your fault, not Jagex's. As part of the recovery process you're going through, it'll be reassigned to whatever you provide in the recovery forms. But the email address you put in as your username, if you have an email username, won't change - just the registered address.

You'll find more detail and guidance on all this in the Account Help board - this isn't a technical problem you're having, so this isn't the best place to seek help.
Moneybucks

11-Aug-2019 00:08:13

Vandinite
Nov Gold Premier Club Member 2018

Vandinite

Posts: 122Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
A very presumptive and rude approach, but I won't disagree with the ending statement on the first paragraph. You simply should approach others as you would like to be approached - wise words indeed.

Incorrect, appeals may be auto-denied for many reasons. In fact, using an IP that is not original to your account is one of them. I just figured this out when reading another forum thread, turned off my VPN and submitted another appeal, it has not been auto-denied since and i'm currently waiting. Here's a link to said thread if anyone is having the same problems and wants to see it for that information; http://services.runescape.com/m=forum/forums.ws?410,411,122,66031894, 4th comment down via Malua addresses all reasons.

As for what was claimed to be jagex's fault in this thread, the only claim I stated which was Jagex's fault was the flaw that they are wrongly locking accounts simply because users are using a VPN for protection. I believe I made this very clear in my post. It had nothing to do with pointing the blame on the user not having access to their E-mail. They should not have had their account locked if there was no valid reason and instead it was a system error in the first place, detecting irregular IP's that ergo lock the account for presumptive breaches - when there aren't any. THAT is on Jagex, as I clearly state. If they wish to have this mechanic to the point where it will interfere with VPN's - when there are millions of VPN users, they should correct their system so that it will detect VPN use as well, and not simply just varying IP's. Again, holding Jagex responsible.

You seem to have misunderstood the entire post I made and approached it very rudely, to be clear, this is a technical issue, as i'm addressing not just an issue with my account being apprehended, but the fact that it got locked due to me using a VPN - that was clearly the title and the main topic, the main topic being that my account got locked for me using a VPN.
Change isn't going to come to you. Take control of your life.

11-Aug-2019 00:34:10

Vandinite
Nov Gold Premier Club Member 2018

Vandinite

Posts: 122Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
My problems are currently not closed, i'm still waiting on appeal approval, i'd also like for mods to come and better address the implications with IP as this is in no way acceptable nor the user's fault. Wanting protection via cyber attacks should in no way interfere with a game. Be polite in creating comments. I will be polite to those which are polite to me as well.

Furthermore let me make it clear to others that you should not be victim blaming others. People lose E-mails, social media accounts, and so on so fourth for many reasons, and not just because they are unwise or it should be passed off, otherwise there would not be so many people having such issues, nor victim blaming them, if they are so important in these scenarios. Not everyone is exempt from losing papers they wrote something down in, from moving from one place to another, to simply years of having said papers and moving things around. And you, are none the more wiser than many of these people. Instead, blame the thing they're having wrongful issues with. Common sense. It's a shame to see how toxic the RS community still is - when the first thing they jump to by approaching a post of someone simply seeking help is to be passive aggressive.
Change isn't going to come to you. Take control of your life.

11-Aug-2019 00:36:42 - Last edited on 11-Aug-2019 00:52:56 by Vandinite

Vandinite
Nov Gold Premier Club Member 2018

Vandinite

Posts: 122Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
What of accounts being locked wrongly for VPN usage with intentions of protecting their personal information, can VPN's interacting with this be addressed separately as a technical issue? Is that not a part of your system detection which in turn would be a technical issue? By no means am I here to argue, but I really would like for you and other mods to respond on the VPN issue; that again as I claimed in the title and in separate comment was the main topic.

I feel as though this is personal as you're simply following up on the other character which came confused and made the same suggestion, which appears to represent a lot of your moderator account's looks, but that could be just me. Either way, hints about maturity and outright passive-aggression, there seems to be a main issue, Runescape's system is wrongly locking accounts for using a VPN. VPN's are not bad things and are used for protection from cyber attacks especially via data collection from credit card information to log information. This can be taken advantage of in Runescape's case, especially where my connection for this site is insecure. But in general, it shouldn't matter when it's simply something used for protection with anything.

People should not have their accounts wrongly locked for something that is presumptive of something bad, when there isn't actually anything bad and I think it needs to be acknowledged here how big of a thing that is. If Jagex wishes to have this mechanic, they should build a system which detects, as I mentioned, not only a varying IP, but when a VPN itself is used as well. I'm looking forward to having others and more mods touch on this.
Change isn't going to come to you. Take control of your life.

11-Aug-2019 01:23:48 - Last edited on 11-Aug-2019 01:36:48 by Vandinite

Pinguicula

Pinguicula

Posts: 9,454Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
There is no official registry for VPN IP addresses. Jagex can't just check every IP address to know for certain if it is being used as a VPN or not. There are some known VPN related IP addresses and sometimes the J-mods notice when they are being used but just because you use a VPN doesn't mean Jagex will know the IP address is connected to a VPN. Additionally I wouldn't be surprised if VPNs are used by trouble makers in the game. Botters are known to use certain VPNs and I wouldn't be surprised if other people sometimes use them to discourage J-mods from connecting their personal accounts to trouble maker accounts by using IP addresses. I'm just guessing. So, yes, an account being used without a VPN for years and then suddenly being used with a VPN could be a sign of trouble. I read you don't want Jagex to lock accounts in this situation. OK. You can suggest that. However, it's been this way for a long time. I don't know all their reasons for doing things this way but I'm guessing they have their reasons. People forget this but Jagex prefers people to be playing their game and paying for it.

Since you were having trouble recovering your account I put in a request for your thread to be moved to Account Help where people typically get help with that. There isn't a conspiracy to put your thread in the wrong forum. The F-mods won't address your questions. It isn't in their role as an F-mod but I suppose an F-mod might be familiar with Jagex's concerns about VPNs. They just patrol the forums for troublemakers and keep it organized. The P-mods aren't recognized on the forums so don't expect anything from them. Really, this issue isn't their area of expertise. The J-mods sometimes pop in to Community Led Account Help (usually Mod Stevew) but usually help in the Community Led forums is provided by regular members of the community and community helpers. Perhaps try
Reddit.com/r/runescape
if you want to get a J-mod's attention about the VPN issue.

11-Aug-2019 02:16:14

Vandinite
Nov Gold Premier Club Member 2018

Vandinite

Posts: 122Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hi Ping, correct, not all IP's utilized in VPN's are dedicated towards VPN's solely, or listed as such, so it would be an extremely hard feat to define between VPN IP and real IP, but whether or not it is specifically hard is not a point I made, the major point I think you should be looking at is the fact that there are so many people who's account are months/years old or they in general lost papers of other documentation with the very specific information required to appeal accounts that were locked, where these documents could not only contain account information, but also E-mail information, it would be educational for you to just browse the amount of threads with people having troubles recovering accounts because they have lost E-mail and account documentation, and many of those instances are not simply because they are unwise, but for legitimate reasons. In this case, they payed for a service, their account was locked for a false-positive, they were rejected recovery, and Jagex will not issue a refund because they, "used" some of their membership. Would you not define this as theft;stealing if jagex's fraudulent terms and conditions did not state otherwise? With all of that in mind this creates a better understanding of how important this problem is.

I see you stated you were guessing that botters and so on use VPN's for botting. While botting is barely a problem in Rs3, whether or not their account was using a false VPN, if their ACCOUNT ITSELF was caught botting, their account would then be banned and so on. So the inquiry as to how the IP detection against VPN's works against rule breaker's side, doesn't apply, since your inbound IP doesn't protect you from any punishment, with whatever IP you're using, when using a VPN you are simply assigning yourself a separate IP than your original, whatever IP they find is going to link to that account; in general, when you break the rules in runescape, such as botting, it's detected in-game itself.
Change isn't going to come to you. Take control of your life.

11-Aug-2019 03:49:58

Vandinite
Nov Gold Premier Club Member 2018

Vandinite

Posts: 122Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
As for IP banning, it doesn't matter. If the rule breaker was on their original IP and IP banned, they can still turn to another IP and create another account. IP banning has since been ineffective, so the claim is implausible. Runescape's detection system itself, though is effective. Regardless of accounts being rapidly made, they are consistently detected and banned at high rates, especially in botting detection.

Since IP really has nothing to do with rule breaking in a large margin, it's pointless in that instance. The major part of Jagex locking accounts after their IP has been changed, is not because of rule breaking, but because of the assumption that the account has been compromised. The nature of this is that your router has two assigned, with your first router's interface being the IP address that called WAN, your public IP. From an IP from another location, this looks as if the person has moved, their account has been compromised, or they are using a VPN.

Again your IP has nothing to do with rule breaking detection in Runescape, their servers have their own detection systems, but you can be permanently banned by the IP you are currently using, primary IP or false IP. That is, as you can tell ineffective now. You'll be able to create an account with a brand new one regardless. But, what reason do I not want them to lock accounts for varying IP addresses? The reasons I mentioned were because in these cases it is a false positive, and people have lost their accounts over it, when it wasn't their fault, that is theft. Regardless of how you see it, that definition is only slightly dodged by jagex's terms where they state they do not offer re-funds for membership that has been used any, and the terms that state how they can revoke accounts with it. On a banks perspective, regardless of this, you may just well be able to open a case and win if you show them you are not able to use said services you payed for, but most people won't. Because of those terms.
Change isn't going to come to you. Take control of your life.

11-Aug-2019 04:01:18

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