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DONT MAKE SUMMONING 120

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Deltaslug

Deltaslug

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What would everyone's thoughts be if the XP scaling was the same curve as Invention?

To get Summoning Charms, you either have to:
- Combat/Slayer as a lot of monsters drop them
- Hunter for Charm Sprites and Charm Moths and Spirit Implings
- Thieving (Armlodd Clan elves, and I think 1 or 2 other ways)
- Firemaking with Fire Spirits

And, Summoning, like Invention, does feedback into supporting a lot of skills.

19-Aug-2018 02:51:27

Deltaslug

Deltaslug

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@Dorvan,
Agreed.
120 Thieving seemed likely to be the next thing to hit 120. The XP rates from Safecracking, along with a few of the other thieving methods out there already make it a pretty good bet to hit it.

The only issue, much like any other skill, is what gets added to fill the rest of the levels above it.

In Thieiving, ofc your efficiency rate for picking pockets goes up. You would also see new multipliers in x5 or x6 when you try to loot. We could also see x2 in others (Priff Elves?).

We'd certainly see new safes to crack. God Wars Dungeon? KBD Lair? KQ/KK caves? Excuse me Telos/Vorago/Arraxor ... let me just loot your safe first, then I'll get back to killing you.

Would be able to try to pickpocket bosses themselves?

30-Sep-2018 16:02:49

Deltaslug

Deltaslug

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What they did with slayer was so that they could add more mobs with more mechanics, even though the new slayer mobs slowly reach the same difficulty level as like the lower tier in game bosses and even GWD1 bosses.
Afterall, your T85+ Slayer creatures before the update included Dark Beasts, Abyssal Demons, and Airut. The T95 "elite mobs" from Runelabs weren't quite what players were expecting.

I'm for rebalancing the existing Summoning content somehow rather than just upping it to 120.
Plus raising Summoning has a similar argument to raising 120 combat: we don't have much in game right now that warrants the raise.

Yes, we've steadily seen stronger combat mobs and bosses added into the game.
But players who have "mastered" some of the higher end bosses are having an easier and easier time with Telos, Arraxi, Vorago, etc ... even virtually soloing some of the "group bosses" ... and that is with T90-92 gear.
You can imagine how much easier it would be for them with T99 or higher.

Adding in higher tier summoning familiars would have a similar issue.
More DPS or more storage for food for bosses.
Higher efficiency rate for gathering skills when we've had so much added in that between Invention, Outfits, potions, and auras, you're already at a decent rate.

Yet at the same time, how many variants of familiars are completely ignored?
How many familiars have redundant or useless abilities?
We have gaps for skilling familiars (ie: several mining and fishing, but only 1 for woodcutting).

We need to have the existing familiars rebalanced, and even a few be considered for removal (or at least useless effects removed).
Or having something done to make it so players aren't using just the same 5-6 familairs.

09-Feb-2019 23:03:17

Deltaslug

Deltaslug

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@UrekMazino
I'm aware of your suggestion thread. I should note that you are not the only person to have suggested new ideas for summoning familiars ... regardless if they are rebalanced variants of existing familiars or ones added for 100-120.

I should also note that in the end, any additions to the game are solely dependent on Jagex devs. Some ideas may be used, some discarded for being "OP", others discarded because they aren't technically feasible, others discarded because while they could be done thy just don't seem practical or are duplication of other in game effects or are better used as a space for a reward using a different mechanic.

Frankly, Jagex may even opt to do a completely different mechanic for 100-120 then what we currently have. (You could still train pouches using Steel Titans and Geyser Titans, but they use an entirely different method for the new familiars).

Whatever case they use, you'll run into:
- players ranting about how 100-120 uses a new mechanic that doesn't feel right
- players lamenting that their large stacks of existing familiars and scrolls are now worthless (same as the after effect of the M/S rework)
- players just complaining about how they now have to train 90 million XP to reach the cap on the skill because a part of their psyche says they have to because the game has the 120 and they have some subconscious need to reach that
- ... or because now to do end game content, they absolutely have to have the 120 to grind out so their familiars now actually help them because Yaks/Mammoths don't carry enough and Steel Titan DPS don't do squat anymore because Ultra-Hard Mode Vorago's defense rating is too high.

10-Feb-2019 19:49:03

Deltaslug

Deltaslug

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Like I think I said before, we have limitations on the number of ways to train Summoning.

Right now, it's just make massive amounts of pouches. Sure you can dump other unfixed XP rewards on it, but that's really the only way to "train" it.
Even then:
- citadel summoning plot has a weekly cap (effectively a D&D that requires you to be in a clan and citadel high enough tier)
- Familairization indirectly helps with Charm Collection or shaving costs of secondaries (Even then, materials given are random and might not be useful at your current level)

And that's it .......

How you get charms is also heavily combat focused.
Your only other options are:
- Do Hunter with Charm Sprites, Charm Moths, and the occassional Charming Imp
- A few thru chests in Cave Goblin city
- Trisk Key (but effectively requires elite level content and still a 1/11 or 1/13 chance of getting ~ 200 charms)
- Pickpocket Amlodd (technically still requires combat via quests to unlock priff)
- Soul Wars which is virtually dead content outside of Spotlight ... and even then at times
- Fire Spirts (Again, small number) from bonfires

Skillers would need 2-3 more semi reliable ways to get charms that aren't locked behind combat content or having to go into the Wilderness.

In addition, some of the Summoning Familiars would also be locked out from skillers.
Obsidian Charms from TzHaar can only be earned from Combat, thus locking out Obsidian and Lava Golems
Abyssal Charms from Abyssal Creatures (not Lvl 85 Slayer) are locked out preventing the use of Abyssal Creatures to carry essence.

10-Feb-2019 19:58:07

Deltaslug

Deltaslug

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Not every creatures drops charms.
Not every task would end up with a number of charm drops relative to the Slayer XP output.
Some people speed run thru tasks not picking up stuff (including charms).
Not everyone uses a charming imp. Those that do are more likely to destroy charms. Again, that output isn't comparable to Slayer XP earned.
Slayer, again, has more ways to train over Summoning (how many Slayer xp rewards out there for things like Bork, Phoenix Lair, God Statues, Champion Challenges, Skeletal Horror, Rush of Blood). Even quests favor Slayer over Summoning.

Plus, we found out about the concept for 120 Slayer back in mid-late 2016. So players had close to a full year to work on 120 Slayer for the Menaphos/120 Slayer releases.
And we're closing in on the 2 year mark for the skill up to 120.
The idea for 120 Summoning wasn't really floated until 2018.

11-Feb-2019 02:06:41 - Last edited on 11-Feb-2019 02:08:01 by Deltaslug

Deltaslug

Deltaslug

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*facepalm*

You know the "I know you know I know" gags you sometimes saw in movies or shows?

This would end up being a continuation of multiple not supporting each others lack of support for a concept to the root not support of the initial concept.

13-Feb-2019 03:47:27

Deltaslug

Deltaslug

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Another option:
Gut most of the existing familiars, keeping on a few (ie: 1 bob, 1 of each range/mage/melee, 1for each skill to support in gathering or artisan as required)
Familiar now passively upgrades along with you. Every +10 summoning levels, combat familiars get stronger, every 10 to 25 summoning levels the skill support and healers get buffed.
As they level,up, they also,gain some of the existing added abilities (mining familiar can unlock tele to lava maze, hunter familiar can teleprt to a selected hunter area)
Completing quests can unlock specialized buffs for familiars (divination familiars get muspah's ability, combat familiars can gain nihil abilities)

We can retain some of the core of the familiars. While we might still have just a handful of familiars, tbh, it wouldn't change what we end up doing atm anyways

23-Feb-2019 20:46:49

Deltaslug

Deltaslug

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Like a number of others, I'm still not for 120 Summoning.

I would still like to see some,fleshed out ideas they had.

While they might not have worked for 100-120 training or such, the concepts could still be used to add variety to the skill.

I will admit i can change my mind if the planned concepts would make it more than just the current make a few hundred k titan/yak pouches.

31-May-2019 16:07:57 - Last edited on 31-May-2019 16:10:05 by Deltaslug

Deltaslug

Deltaslug

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Cute Brat said:
UrekMazino said:
Seeing Jagex can't even be bothered to do a proper comp rework, I honestly don't have hope they can be bothered to do any more skill reworks or skill expansions.



I totally agree with the canceling of the comp rework was a good decision, and still think no 120 summon is the way to stay, no need for it at all.


I think this also becomes one of those things where everyone has their own interpretation as to what should be done.

Be funny if we get a removal of most of the rest of multiplayer minigames (following what happened to Mobilizing Armies) by 2020. Which point, CW req would have been removed either way.

09-Jun-2019 04:42:20

Deltaslug

Deltaslug

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Wouldn't a skill level squish be a little difficult to implement in RS3?
They did kinda do that with mining/smithing.

On the other side, how much exactly do you squish?
WoW was constantly adding levels. RS3 never really did that until the release of Dungeoneering, but that was the first ... thing ... to start with 120. The only time we had something jump from 99 to 120 was with Slayer.
Everything else in RS3 has actually been gradually filling in the gap between the highest current level and 99 (or 120).

Plus, in the last few years (excluding MTX) they've been doing things to remove some of the grind between levels by speeding up xp gains and improving QoL.

That said ... it still makes for a good argument against adding more 120s.

29-Jun-2019 04:50:23

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