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feel ripped off

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Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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I got 3 pinatas from TH not counting the freebies from the 1st day. Nothing really great came out of them but they still give me better than average prizes anyway.

Sometimes you win something great from TH, sometimes not quite so, but you always win something.

These people might not have won pinatas neither but perhaps 600 mil gp and even 2 billion gp prizes are way better prizes than anything that come of pinatas anyway:

http://services.runescape.com/m=forum/c=6lrVlrfNTHM/sl=0/forums.ws?366,367,639,65968139

The fun part of games of chance is the surprising factor. TH is like doing clue scrolls or getting boss drop. You can get great prizes and you can get... well, something better to be rerolled... but the surprise and fun is always there. :D

04-Dec-2018 19:02:14

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Original message details are unavailable.
Original message details are unavailable.
I got 3 pinatas from TH not counting the freebies from the 1st day. Nothing really great came out of them but they still give me better than average prizes anyway.

Sometimes you win something great from TH, sometimes not quite so, but you always win something.

These people might not have won pinatas neither but perhaps 600 mil gp and even 2 billion gp prizes are way better prizes than anything that come of pinatas anyway:

http://services.runescape.com/m=forum/c=6lrVlrfNTHM/sl=0/forums.ws?366,367,639,65968139

The fun part of games of chance is the surprising factor. TH is like doing clue scrolls or getting boss drop. You can get great prizes and you can get... well, something better to be rerolled... but the surprise and fun is always there. :D

Pretty sure if you spent $10 and won something worth 10 cents, you didn't really win something.

Also, that 2b prize wasn't from this promo, I know cuz I posted that.


Wrong and wrong.

Wrong! You don't win anything with tangle real world worth at all in this game. Every pixel belongs to Jagex. You only "win" the rights to use the rewards within the game, not even 10 cents "worth". This is also true when you pay real money for membership, bonds, SGS items, etc. You pay for the entertainments, not the real world ownership of anything within the game, not for anything with real world values at all.

Wrong again! Pinatas are the possible rewards of the monthly Advent Calendar event. The daily and frequently run promotions are still going their normal course. Pinatas from the Advent Calendar are just extra bonuses we get from TH. We can all see the usual Double Dragon Chests, Loot Duel, etc still running their normal courses. Players are actually getting potential more rewards for their TH keys in this December.

05-Dec-2018 15:36:36

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Original message details are unavailable.
Moral of this story is gamble in moderation, or don't gamble at all.


Moral of this story is be happy with what you get from rerolling a Clue Scroll, Raid reward, Araxxi loot and such. Sometimes you get better rewards, sometimes you don't.

05-Dec-2018 15:59:01

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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UrekMazino said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Wrong and wrong.

Wrong! You don't win anything with tangle real world worth at all in this game. Every pixel belongs to Jagex. You only "win" the rights to use the rewards within the game, not even 10 cents "worth". This is also true when you pay real money for membership, bonds, SGS items, etc. You pay for the entertainments, not the real world ownership of anything within the game, not for anything with real world values at all.

Just because its not a direct comparison doesn't mean my analogy is wrong. You still didn't win something you wanted despite sinking in money.

Dilbert2001 said:
Wrong again! Pinatas are the possible rewards of the monthly Advent Calendar event. The daily and frequently run promotions are still going their normal course. Pinatas from the Advent Calendar are just extra bonuses we get from TH. We can all see the usual Double Dragon Chests, Loot Duel, etc still running their normal courses. Players are actually getting potential more rewards for their TH keys in this December.

So?


Neither do you win anything from paying for membership nor a movie ticket. When you pay for entertainment, don't expect to "win" anything worth any real money, not 10 cents, not even 0.0000001 cent.

The TH promotion running currently is actually a Advent Calendar promotion within the regular promotion.
So all players actually have a chance to win pinatas among other holiday themed items on top of the regular goodies from Double Dragon Chests, Loot Duel, Rainbow Multipliers, etc. So Advent Calendar is more worthy to spend TH keys on because of the added chances for the added goodies, e.g. Pinatas.
:D

07-Dec-2018 17:02:32

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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UrekMazino said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Neither do you win anything from paying for membership nor a movie ticket. When you pay for entertainment, don't expect to "win" anything worth any real money, not 10 cents, not even 0.0000001 cent.

The TH promotion running currently is actually a Advent Calendar promotion within the regular promotion.
So all players actually have a chance to win pinatas among other holiday themed items on top of the regular goodies from Double Dragon Chests, Loot Duel, Rainbow Multipliers, etc. So Advent Calendar is more worthy to spend TH keys on because of the added chances for the added goodies, e.g. Pinatas.
:D

What does that have to do with anything we were talking about?

Your analogy comparing a lottery like system to paying for a service/entertainment is also wrong.


This has everything to do with this topic, absolutely totally completely 100% that. This Advent Calendar event don't give worse prizes than the regular events. The Pinatas are just better prizes than the normal prizes we can win. On top of the pinatas, everybody can still win 200 mil gp and the 10x, 7x, or 5x of that prizes from Double Dragon Chests, Rainbow Multipliers and Loot Duel.

The random nature of this promotion is still the random as usual. How's that a "rip off"?

08-Dec-2018 22:56:16

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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UrekMazino said:
Dilbert2001 said:
This has everything to do with this topic, absolutely totally completely 100% that. This Advent Calendar event don't give worse prizes than the regular events. The Pinatas are just better prizes than the normal prizes we can win. On top of the pinatas, everybody can still win 200 mil gp and the 10x, 7x, or 5x of that prizes from Double Dragon Chests, Rainbow Multipliers and Loot Duel.

Irrelevant, no one is talking about those promos are that this Christmas promo is worse than usual.

Dilbert2001 said:
The random nature of this promotion is still the random as usual. How's that a "rip off"?

OP felt ripped off because he didn't get the item he wanted despite spending more than the average player.


RNGesus is always random regardless if you think he is "relevant" or not. Thanks for you comment anyway. :D

God helps those who know how to help themselves though. When somebody picks a Loot Duel Experience Lamp Chest, obviously he is not going to get a Pinata prize. :D

09-Dec-2018 15:20:04

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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UrekMazino said:
Dilbert2001 said:
RNGesus is always random regardless if you think he is "relevant" or not. Thanks for you comment anyway. :D

God helps those who know how to help themselves though. When somebody picks a Loot Duel Experience Lamp Chest, obviously he is not going to get a Pinata prize. :D

That's not why I said its irrelevant.


What you think is relevant or not has nothing to do with what OP and the other people think. OP complained about RNGesus not taking care of him. I just told him it is random, however, I show him the way he can improve the chance of getting the Pinata drop he apparently aimed for.

09-Dec-2018 23:49:45

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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UrekMazino said:
Dilbert2001 said:
What you think is relevant or not has nothing to do with what OP and the other people think. OP complained about RNGesus not taking care of him. I just told him it is random, however, I show him the way he can improve the chance of getting the Pinata drop he apparently aimed for.

Have you forgotten the topic of our discussion already? Or what OP is talking about? Its not about my opinion on the relevancy of your attempt on digression. The topic is that OP felt ripped off for not getting the desired outcome despite spending more than the average player. Its got nothing to do with loot chests or the other promos because those promos don't necessarily contain what OP wanted. So don't bring those up again.


I already told OP and the other what randomness means and I even gave him a way to improve his chance of getting the prize he hoped for on Post 3 of this Page.

Not more need for me to comment on it.

10-Dec-2018 01:56:58

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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UrekMazino said:
Your suggestion does not help since loot duel was not on going when op posted, so stop bringing it up to derail this thread.


OP did not mention what day(s) he spent his keys on. How do you know how he spent his keys and on what date?

My posts will also help OP and other players who are interested to know how to spend their keys wisely in the remaining 3 weeks+ of Advent Calendar too. What's the problem?

10-Dec-2018 03:50:17

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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UrekMazino said:
Just look at the date, loot duel was not available on that day or any of the days leading up to it. Lotduel started on 5th, op posted on 4th. Even a 7 yr old can deduce that, no need for op to mention it.


Again, Loot Duel
is
just one of the, not the only, examples of promotions that anybody, not just OP can decide to use or save his keys for the prizes (and in OP's case, Pinatas) that person wants.

Prizes from different promotions have different chances for a player's desired prize. Double Dragon Chests give 1-10x the prizes and therefore have up to 10x the normal chances of obtaining a specific rewards. Rainbow Multipliers give 1-7x the chances while Loot Duel gives only up to 5x the prizes but with transparency of the rewards. The key point of getting the best chance in obtaining a player's desired prize is to use the keys on the best promotions, whether it is Loot Duel or other things.

For instance, on the first day, Pinatas are the regular prize on the TH chests, it should be obvious that many players could get the better chance to obtain at least one of them. However, on the 2nd day onward, different promotions with different themed prizes took the spotlight, so if that player used his keys during these promotions, logically he would have lower chance to get a pinatas, or even 0 chance when a lamp promotion ran on that day.

Please also notice at the very beginning of this post, I wrote "Loot Duel
is
just one of the, not the only, examples of promotions that anybody, not just OP can decide to use or save his keys for the prizes (and in OP's case, Pinatas) that person wants". Yes, I wrote it in present, not past, tense. Advent Calendar is still going for another 3 more weeks. All kinds of regular sub-promotions within Advent Calendar including Loot Duel (if you must pick this particular promotion out) probably will return. My advice still holds.

10-Dec-2018 16:15:34

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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UrekMazino said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Again, Loot Duel is just one of the, not the only, examples of promotions that anybody, not just OP can decide to use or save his keys for the prizes (and in OP's case, Pinatas) that person wants.

yea ok, but you mentioned: loot duels, dragon chests, and rainbow. Of which, only dragon chests were available when OP posted. And my whole point is that you bringing those promos up are not relevant to OP's problem as they don't affect the chances of getting a pinata.

Plus you were the one who started talking about loot duels anyways, I just followed along. So don't blame me for focusing on it.

Dilbert2001 said:
Prizes from different promotions have different chances for a player's desired prize. Double Dragon Chests give 1-10x the prizes and therefore have up to 10x the normal chances of obtaining a specific rewards. Rainbow Multipliers give 1-7x the chances while Loot Duel gives only up to 5x the prizes but with transparency of the rewards. The key point of getting the best chance in obtaining a player's desired prize is to use the keys on the best promotions, whether it is Loot Duel or other things.

Its funny when the biggest advocate for TH has no idea how the promo works, lol. You ever actually even spun a daily key before?


I clearly wrote:

"We can all see the usual
Double Dragon Chests, Loot Duel, etc
still running their normal courses. Players are actually getting potential more rewards for their TH keys in this December."


Do I really need to explain what "etc" mean? :D

11-Dec-2018 14:10:42

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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UrekMazino said:
Dilbert2001 said:
I clearly wrote:

"We can all see the usual
Double Dragon Chests, Loot Duel, etc
still running their normal courses. Players are actually getting potential more rewards for their TH keys in this December."


Do I really need to explain what "etc" mean? :D

Not what I'm arguing about.

Refresher for you.
UrekMazino said:
Also, that 2b prize wasn't from this promo, I know cuz I posted that.

Dilbert2001 said:
Wrong again! Pinatas are the possible rewards of the monthly Advent Calendar event.

You were correcting me for something I didn't say?


Don't take words out of context please. You were arguing we can't win 2 bil from this Advent Calendar promotion. You wrote:

"Also, that 2b prize wasn't from this promo, I know cuz I posted that."


Obviously you are wrong since we can still win 10x the 200 mil prize on Double Dragon Chest. Pinatas and other Christmas themed items are just some extra rares possible to be won on top of the other regular promotional prizes.

13-Dec-2018 19:29:03

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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UrekMazino said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Don't take words out of context please. You were arguing we can't win 2 bil from this Advent Calendar promotion. You wrote:

"Also, that 2b prize wasn't from this promo, I know cuz I posted that."


Obviously you are wrong since we can still win 10x the 200 mil prize on Double Dragon Chest. Pinatas and other Christmas themed items are just some extra rares possible to be won on top of the other regular promotional prizes.

Oh, but that's not what I was saying.


Not what you were saying? But that was what you were posting obviously.

INB4 you post you don't mean this or that, again, I don't care, because I only want to let those who feel "ripped off" know they can still win not just pinatas, not just 200 mil gp, they can actually win 1 bil, 1.4 bil or 2.b bil gp as well as pinatas and other Christmas themed items in this Advent Calandar promotion before the end of the year. :)

13-Dec-2018 23:56:19

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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UrekMazino said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Not what you were saying? But that was what you were posting obviously.

INB4 you post you don't mean this or that, again, I don't care, because I only want to let those who feel "ripped off" know they can still win not just pinatas, not just 200 mil gp, they can actually win 1 bil, 1.4 bil or 2.b bil gp as well as pinatas and other Christmas themed items in this Advent Calandar promotion before the end of the year. :)

You're just reading what you want.

Anyhow, that point isn't as important, what's more important is the ability to win other seemingly desirable prizes does not discount OP's feeling of being ripped off because those other prizes may not be desirable to OP at all. Which is why I kept on saying you bringing up other promos and prizes is irrelevant and derails the thread.


If you think what I post was irrelevant and derails the thread, please use the FH.

Unless you are OP, you can't tell what OP feels. You can't tell OP doesn't want to know there are other even better prizes that he can win. You can't even tell if he has won pinatas since he first post neither.

BTW, I just won a pinata in today's promtion. I only used the 3 daily keys.

14-Dec-2018 01:05:55

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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UrekMazino said:
Dilbert2001 said:
UrekMazino said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Not what you were saying? But that was what you were posting obviously.

INB4 you post you don't mean this or that, again, I don't care, because I only want to let those who feel "ripped off" know they can still win not just pinatas, not just 200 mil gp, they can actually win 1 bil, 1.4 bil or 2.b bil gp as well as pinatas and other Christmas themed items in this Advent Calandar promotion before the end of the year. :)

You're just reading what you want.

Anyhow, that point isn't as important, what's more important is the ability to win other seemingly desirable prizes does not discount OP's feeling of being ripped off because those other prizes may not be desirable to OP at all. Which is why I kept on saying you bringing up other promos and prizes is irrelevant and derails the thread.


If you think what I post was irrelevant and derails the thread, please use the FH.

Unless you are OP, you can't tell what OP feels. You can't tell OP doesn't want to know there are other even better prizes that he can win. You can't even tell if he has won pinatas since he first post neither.

BTW, I just won a pinata in today's promtion. I only used the 3 daily keys.

No need to guess how op feels when he's stated it clearly.


Why do you reference all my posts to OP's then? What CONSTRUCTIVE comments have you provided?

WOW!!! I just won 8 ancient relics from TH with the bonus TH key I got from mining on top of the Pinata I won earlier today. This promotion is awesome. A lot of great stuff!!! :D

14-Dec-2018 15:01:04 - Last edited on 14-Dec-2018 15:05:34 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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DiskOfReturn said:
Clan mate just got 4x 200m on the rainbow promo, i think he didn't even buy any keys.
If you want to be a whale about it and have guatanteed gp you could just buy bond instead.


To get into most meaningful or endgame features, players have to gain substantial xp in this game. They may buy bonds and get all the gp in Gielinor, but they can't buy xp. They easiest way to get xp in this game without actually playing is to go through TH since xp items are the most common prizes.

That said, whales won't feel getting ripped off if they don't win the 200 mil jackpot or some shiny rare cosmetics. However, the real ripped off will come if the xp items become hard to come by. Fortunately, the current mechanics of TH provides the Goldilocks scenario for all the players, whales or not. Bonds give instant gp. TH gives instant xp or bonus xp that can further be burnt off for instant xp with smouldering lamps among others.

14-Dec-2018 18:46:40

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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Got another Pinata, with 10 keys this times though. We can see all the prizes in today's promotion, so it is a good time to use Hearts of Ice.

What?
"200 frakin keys and not a single dang pinata are u kidding me this is some grade a horse crap"
?

Oh wow, look at that, conflicting anecdotal evidences, its almost like they don't prove anything when tens of thousands of paid keys are consumed, and I am not even counting the free ones. :D

16-Dec-2018 20:18:22 - Last edited on 16-Dec-2018 20:20:52 by Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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UrekMazino said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Got another Pinata, with 10 keys this times though. We can see all the prizes in today's promotion, so it is a good time to use Hearts of Ice.

What?
"200 frakin keys and not a single dang pinata are u kidding me this is some grade a horse crap"
?

Oh wow, look at that, conflicting anecdotal evidences, its almost like they don't prove anything when tens of thousands of paid keys are consumed, and I am not even counting the free ones. :D

Wow, finally got you to agree with me. Its almost like OP has the right to "feel" ripped off because he was indeed very unlucky and raise his concerns on the forums since the chances of rolling a pinata is completely unknown and therefore was unable to make the informed decision whether it was worth buying the spins. At least for lottery and casinos, you can calculate exactly your chances of winning.

So glad I finally convinced you.


WoW. You must be really feeling I have the right to "feel" happy because I was indeed lucky, not even really lucky and share my observations on the forums since the chances of rolling a pinata is not completely known just like the odds of wining many RNG based items not connected to MTX (e.g. Effigy Pet, Phoenix Eggling, etc) but nobody is really crying about whether it is worth to spend times and/or buy membership with real money for such non-TH activities. At least for lottery and casinos, you can calculate exactly what chances of winning an Phoenix Eggling pet. :D:D:D

17-Dec-2018 16:09:55

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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It requires membership to win an Effy or Phoenix Eggling pet. No odds is given. Players either have to pay real money or bonds (yes but they are also the same bonds that can give free players TH keys) to get membership. Obviously, one can't feel "being ripped off" from no knowing the odds TH but not the odds of Effy or Phoenix Eggling pet among a lot of membership items.

If you don't know the chance of completing certain game features, you have the right to do it or don't. Don't like the odds or don't know it? Do it if you still want to or don't if you really think that's a problem. It is really simple. :D

19-Dec-2018 18:07:31

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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UrekMazino said:
Dilbert2001 said:
It requires membership to win an Effy or Phoenix Eggling pet. No odds is given. Players either have to pay real money or bonds (yes but they are also the same bonds that can give free players TH keys) to get membership. Obviously, one can't feel "being ripped off" from no knowing the odds TH but not the odds of Effy or Phoenix Eggling pet among a lot of membership items.

If you don't know the chance of completing certain game features, you have the right to do it or don't. Don't like the odds or don't know it? Do it if you still want to or don't if you really think that's a problem. It is really simple. :D

No, you're paying membership for access to all content, not specifically rolling those drops. TH on the other hand, you're paying to roll those items you want. Not the same.


You are still playing real money whatsoever with membership (excluding bond which is the same mechanic with membership and TH). Paying real money in the real world for virtual items in an imaginary world doesn't automatically mean you have to know the odds of everything. Laws don't necessitate that piece of information anywhere Jagex operate their games. :D

20-Dec-2018 00:04:45

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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UrekMazino said:
Don't change my argument for me, I'm not saying paying with real money is the problem, I'm saying the scope of the product and purpose of the purchase isn't nearly the same and thus unfair comparison.


Nobody needs arguments unless you try to argue with yourself again and again.

The
FACT
is if somebody pays real money for one thing and demand to know its odds, there is no reason for him not to demand to know the odds of the other random thing he is paying real money for.

If you don't agree. don't pay then. Nobody forces you to. The game is free to play. Let the ones who are happy to pay spend their money.

20-Dec-2018 03:04:38

Dilbert2001

Dilbert2001

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UrekMazino said:
Dilbert2001 said:
Nobody needs arguments unless you try to argue with yourself again and again.

The
FACT
is if somebody pays real money for one thing and demand to know its odds, there is no reason for him not to demand to know the odds of the other random thing he is paying real money for.

If you don't agree. don't pay then. Nobody forces you to. The game is free to play. Let the ones who are happy to pay spend their money.

The reason someone may not demand is probably because the game devs are not obligated to reveal them, not at least until laws are put in place that forces devs to reveal them. So why bother asking, especially they've already turned a deaf ear to such requests before?

And you're right, OP should probably not have spent his money. But does the customer not have the right to complain about it?


Don't spend your money on any games if you don't like the RNG in the games then. This user threatened to quite OSRS because the odds was against him in getting a gout tuber. OSRS also does not reveal the odds of a gout tuber:

http://services.runescape.com/m=forum/c=6xSxJylZnFw/sl=0/forums.ws?285,286,347,66068237

It is not just TH. It is not even just Effy and Phoenix Eggling pet drop rate not be revealed. RNG based features are all over all the Jagex games, and every online game in that respect. A lot of such odds are not revealed and a lot of players are "frustrated" or ragequitted... but so what? If the odds are against them nothing they can do. If they don't want to spend money, so be it.

Don't say just TH has to reveal the odds, especially some living example showed somebody can easily rage quit over the odds of a petty gout tuber in OSRS, which certainly has no TH spelled there whatsoever. The moral of the story is, if you don't like the odds, don't spend money and don't even buy membership.

20-Dec-2018 16:25:39 - Last edited on 20-Dec-2018 16:26:38 by Dilbert2001

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