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Lucky Item Swapping!

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Sir Wall Ace

Sir Wall Ace

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Draco Burnz said:
No support.

Ppl get scammed enough as is with the outfits so we shouldn't make more ways for ppl to.
You won't be able to complete the trade if coins are involved, it's strictly a 1 lucky for 1 lucky trade. Scamming is therefore not possible.

Draco Burnz said:
UrekMazino said:

only if there's an asking price attached, 1 to 1 trade with no gp traded will have no scam issues


Even so, it still happens so we don't need yet another outlet for this IMO.

We should be cutting down on how ppl can scam others not introducing more ways.
As mentioned, you cannot scam this way.

Draco Burnz said:
Tenebri said:


you mean like it is with elite outfits?

cause they dont do gp first trade or anything not at all


Exactly.
If someone asks you to give them money before the "actual" trade and you do, you deserve what's coming to you. I'm not in favour of baby-proofing games, this is the best way to learn about the negative side of human nature before it happens in real life. If you give someone money, it's at your own risk and your own expense. (Unless a gift), never give anyone money if you have no assurance to get what you are wanting in return.

Most people that pay before the trade are not getting scammed anyway, they are paying for the convenience that someone will swap the item you don't want for the item you do. That choice is completely their own free will. Scamming and free will are not congruous.

Draco Burnz said:
Also this would cut into TH sales as why buy keys in hope you get the lucky you want when you can just trade someone for it.
You can't buy a lucky item. You must fist win lucky items before you can trade them. It's impossible to get "more" lucky items from trading. You can only swap for the exact amount that you already own.

15-May-2019 07:55:02

Sir Wall Ace

Sir Wall Ace

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Never RIP said:
Sir Wall Ace said:


Most people that pay before the trade are not getting scammed anyway, they are paying for the convenience that someone will swap the item you don't want for the item you do.


Of course this is what u want to do.

Ure a no combat dude. Obviously u wont be the one "wanting" a lucky item... u will obviously be the supplier o.0

Is this ur idea of a level noob pker? Make some gp?!

Sir Wall Ace said:
If someone asks you to give them money before the "actual" trade and you do, you deserve what's coming to you.


Sounds like u have a plan!

No support.
interesting presumption, i'll give you that. no, i'm not a scammer, not that i expect you to take my word for it, of course. i am currently a pure def acc, 84 def. i can wear lucky armours. i'm currently wanting to get the t80 lucky dungeoneering shields.

17-May-2019 08:40:02

Sir Wall Ace

Sir Wall Ace

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Draco Burnz said:
Sir Wall Ace said:
You won't be able to complete the trade if coins are involved, it's strictly a 1 lucky for 1 lucky trade. Scamming is therefore not possible.



Sounds like someone hasn't heard of 2 step trading before.

This happens all the time with the elite outfits so it is indeed possible.
i have, which was clearly implied in my previous response to you.Draco Burnz said:
Sir Wall Ace said:
"Hey man, I'm selling a dragon 2h... but before we trade, you have to give me 1m before that trade, ok?"


Exactly.

Just because you cant use anything else in the initial trade for the item, doesn't mean they cant ask for a payment before hand.
you miss my points. 1: if you can do a two step trade with these items, you can do it with anything else. 2: if you are foolish enough to give someone something before the actual trade takes place, you're stupid. i say it as it is. you learn from doing stupid things. doing stupid things in games are actually very positive learning aspects of gaming. allow the stupidity - help humanity grow in intelligence please an ty. never thought that this thread would go down this path... but anyway...
UrekMazino said:
Draco Burnz said:
Sir Wall Ace said:
"Hey man, I'm selling a dragon 2h... but before we trade, you have to give me 1m before that trade, ok?"


Exactly.

Just because you cant use anything else in the initial trade for the item, doesn't mean they cant ask for a payment before hand.

Its almost like you can decline the offer and are not obligated to follow through. Why spend 1m on an equivalent exchange?
this guy gets it! complete comprehension. thanks for that post. sure made me laugh :D

17-May-2019 08:52:01

Sir Wall Ace

Sir Wall Ace

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Sir Wall Ace said:
Most people that pay before the trade are not getting scammed anyway, they are paying for the convenience that someone will swap the item you don't want for the item you do.
more than implied*
you must've skipped it

people frequently use the two step trade method for "doubling money" scam. or prehistorically, the "trimming armour" scam. it's nothing new and being able to swap 1 for 1 lucky item would not change the fact that this scam is and will remain permanently in game for all fools that don't learn from it.

17-May-2019 08:58:43 - Last edited on 17-May-2019 09:13:42 by Sir Wall Ace

Sir Wall Ace

Sir Wall Ace

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Draco Burnz said:
So just because some ppl don't know that theres usually only 1 trade needed for items, they need to release yet more ways to confuse ppl?

Plus how will you explain jagex's loss in th sales as you wouldn't need to buy keys to get the lucky you want anymore?
it should be presumed, considering that's how trading normally works. if it's not presumed, it'll soon be learned. "more ways"? the two step trade is the same every time. you give someone something for nothing, then you wait, hope and pray that they will give you what you want in return. it's a gamble that fools like to take and it's completely their own fault for taking that risk. taking the risk was not forced, it was a decision that the "victim" made. a victim, to their own foolishness.

you know the future, do you? it's a possibility that people might actually use more keys for lucky items after this change. i don't have any hope to obtain a full set of lucky dragon or barrows for example, because i'd have to buy far too many keys in order to have a decent chance. if i now know that if i get X amount of lucky items, i can trade them, guaranteeing a complete set for myself, i might actually buy some keys instead of giving up before i even attempt to climb that mountain of RNG at a huge cost to my wallet.

i'm not saying that better sales will surely be the case, but it could be. i would not make such a wild claim as to pretend to know the future.

besides, sales are not the only thing that matters. customer satisfaction is highly important.
doing something for quality of life purposes is good for the game's longevity. not to mention, it might just further encourage people to pay more for the game that caters to them!

18-May-2019 01:36:48 - Last edited on 18-May-2019 01:41:41 by Sir Wall Ace

Sir Wall Ace

Sir Wall Ace

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Never RIP said:
Horrible rebuttal. No support for level noob pkers.
instead of considering just one type of player (scammers), think about how the whole community will be impacted, then decide if it's overall a positive or negative change.
i am a level noob pker


Jeremy Cheng said:
Support for this noble cause.
thanks Jeremy! :P

21-May-2019 02:25:16

Sir Wall Ace

Sir Wall Ace

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UrekMazino said:
I've literally never seen anyone complain about TH outfit trade scams but see people trade inaccurate GE guide price items at w2 GE all the time.
I second this. I see so many of these "inaccurate GE price" scams and am yet to witness a skilling outfit scam.

It doesn't even matter. Like I said before: Sir Wall Ace said:
If someone asks you to give them money before the "actual" trade and you do, you deserve what's coming to you.

Draco Burnz said:
Ppl who choose not to be informed or read the warnings should get whats coming IMO.
How can you have this opinion for stupid people getting pked, yet a conflicting opinion for stupid people getting scammed? Be consistent.

29-May-2019 23:54:01

Sir Wall Ace

Sir Wall Ace

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I didn't mis-quote you. I explained exactly what you had that opinion about (pking).

Whether it's a stupid person exposing themselves to pkers or scammers, the same principles apply.Draco Burnz said:
Ppl who choose not to be informed or read the warnings should get whats coming IMO.
I strongly agree with your quote here. I don't see how these two arguments aren't linked and why you'd have opposing opinions on each, that's all.

I'm not wanting you to be a yes man and I don't have a problem with people having different opinions. I'm just baffled that you can have two conflicting opinions on almost the same matter. You'll be critical and condemning with people who are stupid in the wild, yet hope to baby-poof those that are stupid in their trading.

30-May-2019 03:54:06

Sir Wall Ace

Sir Wall Ace

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Draco Burnz said:
So if you cbb to discuss the topic then ill just ignore you.
I'm using your own logic (in the wildy thread) to help you understand the way I feel about this thread, using the commonality between them. I have no problem being ignored though, if that's what you want to do.

Draco Burnz said:
TFW a wildy thread is the same thing as a lucky item thread...
In this context it is.Sir Wall Ace said:
You'll be critical and condemning with people who are stupid in the wild, yet hope to baby-poof those that are stupid in their trading.
In both cases, the "victim" is at fault if they
Draco Burnz said:
choose not to be informed or read the warnings

30-May-2019 13:27:08

Sir Wall Ace

Sir Wall Ace

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Never RIP said:
U must be sick in the head
Just quit runescape, honestly...
just quit the game dude... u're not a victim, u're a loser.
U're a wanna be cheat loser... better just quit rs...
these aren't nice things to say, especially when i assure you, that i am not a scammer. please stop derailing my thread by making up stories and telling me to quit. that has no relevance here, and i don't appreciate it.
Draco Burnz said:
thats probably about the only thing they might have in common.
i'm happy that you now see my point.

19-Jul-2019 10:56:30

Sir Wall Ace

Sir Wall Ace

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i only quote and respond to the parts that matter.

you making the argument that two different things are different is plain obvious, i didn't even want to respond.

i was drawing the main parallel, the fundamental fact that both instances can only occur with a player being stupid and careless with their own valuables.

so thanks for acknowledging the point i was trying to make.

the "scam" here that you're so worried about is probably the most obvious scam imaginable. give something for nothing and expect to get something on a second trade. if players fall for that, God help them. if players can't learn from such a scam, there are literally hundreds of more complicated scams which they will continue to subject themselves to if they refuse to improve their awareness and logic.

if a player said "i'll kill you in the wilderness if you take 100m gp, then you can kill me in the wilderness with 200m gp after", surely, you'd say that anyone who trusted that statement is making a very poor decision, right? that is almost surely a scam, and anyone to be scammed by such a simple scheme would be a fool.

well, it's the same thing with double trades. stupid people should learn not to be stupid.
whether lucky item swapping exists or not, stupid people will always subject themselves to scams. since it's 1 for 1, it is literally difficult to even get scammed. anyone who does, deserves it.

02-Aug-2019 00:42:46

Sir Wall Ace

Sir Wall Ace

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the fact of the matter is that preventing my proposal will not prevent foolish players from being scammed. they will continue to be, no matter what. jagex cannot fix stupid, that's up to the player to inform himself or herself, to use logic and reasoning.

if you choose to be so blind that you think that stopping this, and all similar future 1-for-1 styles of trading, will stop stupid people from being scammed, then i feel sorry for you. you cannot save a player who chooses to keep their head in the sand, nor can jagex. the player is responsible for their own transactions, knowledge, awareness etc.

if 1 for 1 trading didn't exist at all, stupid people would be scammed other ways.
it is inevitable.
your argument is futile. it changes nothing.

stupid people will all continue to be scammed if they make stupid decisions, choose not to be aware and fail to inform themselves or learn from their mistakes. poor decisions deserve punishment. how else would we all learn?

additionally, why do you think that jagex has decided to use "1 for 1" trading in the past, and still presently? because... jagex believes it to be a fair and reasonable transaction. if they believed that this sort of trade was being abused beyond reason, via "2-step-trade", it wouldn't presently exist in-game! clearly. O_o

05-Aug-2019 00:59:08

Sir Wall Ace

Sir Wall Ace

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my last post was ignored O_o

tenebri: you say that players don't get warned when doing 2 step trades and i'd like to contradict you. on the very first trade, when you give someone your gp, it will say: you are giving X coins. you will receive absolutely nothing! you say that isn't a warning?

i say "absolutely nothing" is the biggest red alert you could get and any player ignoring that warning then continuing to subject themselves to a player's false promises is completely responsible for their own stupid actions.

Draco Burnz said:
Exactly.

Considering player 2, the person you're trading with, has every reason to just leave with the gp you give, just proves why it doesn't need to happen.
which is exactly why players shouldn't be stupid enough to do trust trades in the first place! player 1 has every reason to be suspicious and avoid the scam- proves that the real culprit of such scams is the victim (of their own foolishness). jagex even warns you of trust trades. don't do them, ever! this game is a great place to make mistakes, so that we don't first get burned irl.

when you realise that being scammed is entirely the fault of the player, updates that exist in-game and the one that i'm proposing shouldn't be limited by the stupid players of this community.

yes, people will likely get scammed with this change. people will find ways to scam no matter what. whether this update happens or not, 2-step-tade scamming and other scams will always exist and continue to test the minds of the foolish. if players decide to control the only variable that really matters (their own awareness/not being stupid), then they will keep their wealth safe and as a result, their intelligence will be increased from their exposure to scammers. yes, that's right, i see scammers as a positive learning experience and yes, i have been scammed before. this is coming from a victim of his own foolishness, admittedly.

21-Aug-2019 00:37:30 - Last edited on 21-Aug-2019 00:40:52 by Sir Wall Ace

Sir Wall Ace

Sir Wall Ace

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tenebri: "you are purposely changing the meaning of what i said and why i said it. dishonesty i wont respond to." idk what you're talking about here.

you do get a warning in the second trade window, saying you'll get nothing for whatever you are giving. that red flashing warning which stops you from accepting a trade is only when something is changed, so you won't accept a trade right before something is switched.

nothing is switched when you give something for nothing, so no flashing warning is necessary. the second trade window warning "you'll get absolutely nothing in return" is sufficient.

how can i "allow" trust trading? it already exists and is done at each player's individual discretion. this is and will always be the case for all trust trades. trying to blame me or jagex is futile. two step scams will always exist and every player is solely responsible for their own actions.

this isn't an "easier way to scam", as this scam already exists and always will exist.
don't presume that i want more trust trades to happen. i want people to become smarter, so that less trust trades will happen.

continually handicapping the game's progress due to stupid players refusing to become smarter and more aware is a terrible thing, in my opinion. stupid people shouldn't be determining which updates happen and which ones don't.

as an analogy, legacy mode shouldn't restrict updates that happen to eoc. if jagex caters too much to legacy, the updates to the main combat mode will be hindered.
^ if jagex caters too much to stupid people, updates will get hindered for everyone else.

my "excuses" are valid

my posts are not "part of the problem". each player that subjects themselves to being scammed and all players that scam are the whole problem.

no, i'm not a happy cupcake because you didn't acknowledge or answer most of my questions within your response.

26-Aug-2019 02:29:38

Sir Wall Ace

Sir Wall Ace

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Sir Wall Ace said:
to subject themselves to a player's false promises is completely responsible for their own stupid actions. players shouldn't be stupid enough to do trust trades in the first place! don't do them, ever! this game is a great place to make mistakes, so that we don't first get burned irl.

2-step-trade scamming and other scams will always exist and continue to test the minds of the foolish. if players decide to control the only variable that really matters (their own awareness/not being stupid), then they will keep their wealth safe and as a result, their intelligence will be increased

Sir Wall Ace said:
jagex cannot fix stupid, that's up to the player to inform himself or herself, to use logic and reasoning. you cannot save a player who chooses to keep their head in the sand, nor can jagex. the player is responsible for their own transactions, knowledge, awareness etc.

poor decisions deserve punishment. how else would we all learn?

additionally, why do you think that jagex has decided to use "1 for 1" trading in the past, and still presently? because... jagex believes it to be a fair and reasonable transaction. if they believed that this sort of trade was being abused beyond reason, via "2-step-trade", it wouldn't presently exist in-game


simplified, my points were:

- each player has the potential to identify and avoid a scam - they are entirely accountable.
- jagex created 1-for-1 trading, which is a fantastic leap forward in scam prevention.
- trust trades and 2-step trades are here for good. get used to it. educate yourself. be smart.
- don't ever do trust trades/2-step trades. anyone who does them deserves to be punished.
- making mistakes is a good thing, don't prevent players from making mistakes; it makes them smarter.

26-Aug-2019 02:54:53

Sir Wall Ace

Sir Wall Ace

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Tenebri said:
... seems like a no brainer but somehow we on 6 pages?
Draco Burnz said:
Theres a reason for why ppl aren't replying to you and it should be obvious.
you two are so blinded by your own arrogance that you don't take into consideration the fact that each player has their own individual opinion (and they might be right). don't assume that everyone else is always wrong and you should learn to not speak with such conviction. pride comes before a fall.

here's your fall.

your attempts to belittle my stand on the matter are unsuccessful. you two are unknowingly criticising and belittling jagex in the same breath, as they are the creators of 1-for-1 trading (or "restricted trade items";).

the fact that you're defending stupid people and restricting the progression of updates for everyone else means that you want this game to be catered for the stupid, rather than the intelligent O_o

i don't want my game to revolve around stupidity.

26-Aug-2019 03:22:06

Sir Wall Ace

Sir Wall Ace

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i think what you're trying to argue is that more items to swap enables scamming to happen. i'm arguing that 1-for-1 trading has nothing to do with it. it's entirely the player's fault for engaging in a 2-step-trade instead of what was only ever meant to be a 1-step-trade. if ever you do a trust trade, expect to get "absolutely nothing", as warned.

you cannot be scammed with "restricted trade item" trades, as you cannot add any other items in that single trade. it's impossible and it was designed that way.
you only get scammed when you do a "trust trade" before the "fair trade".
are you seriously turning a blind eye to the fact that it was the victim's decision to engage in a trust trade?

both naivety and stupidity can be fixed by experiencing a bad situation and learning from it.
i absolutely enjoy my bubble, thanks. it's awful smart in here.

your post is another "non-answer", whilst continuing to "accuse" that i'm defending scammers (not to mention stating that even i am dishonest?!). that's not my intention. your post is without substance - more like a deflection than an answer. where am i being dishonest?

i'll make my statement again: i hope for players to become smarter so that they no longer get scammed, and i hope for scammers to be punished.

what i am defending - updates to be unrestricted by stupidity. the freedom of failure. the freedom to make mistakes. the freedom to ultimately learn and grow through bad experiences, rather than suppress danger and risk -(resulting in the stagnation of the community's IQ). don't take away (possibly) the best asset that games can offer to man.

you can't deny that cheating, scamming and cruelty are all a part of life. i'd much prefer to learn about those awful aspects of life in a game first. these negative gaming experiences can translate to very valuable real life experience for self preservation.

05-Sep-2019 07:26:05

Sir Wall Ace

Sir Wall Ace

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Draco Burnz said:
doing this would undermine that whole point.
Sir Wall Ace said:
you know the future, do you? it's a possibility that people might actually use more keys for lucky items after this change. i don't have any hope to obtain a full set of lucky dragon or barrows for example, because i'd have to buy far too many keys in order to have a decent chance. if i now know that if i get X amount of lucky items, i can trade them, guaranteeing a complete set for myself, i might actually buy some keys instead of giving up before i even attempt to climb that mountain of RNG at a huge cost to my wallet.

i'm not saying that better sales will surely be the case, but it could be. i would not make such a wild claim as to pretend to know the future.

besides, sales are not the only thing that matters. customer satisfaction is highly important.
doing something for quality of life purposes is good for the game's longevity. not to mention, it might just further encourage people to pay more for the game that caters to them!

09-Sep-2019 00:19:50

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