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Weapon diversity - GCD changes

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The Iniquity
Dec Member 2005

The Iniquity

Posts: 1,543Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Okay, so I've been asking for stuff like what we're seeing in the beta announcement for ages, and I'm super happy about this, but one in particular stands out to me. The GCD change for knives should be applied to ALL weapons (not for the same amount of course). The main distinguishing factor of weapons back in RS2 was speed/power/accuracy differences within the same weapons tiers. If you can do that within the EOC framework, you should do it to everything. We should have slower reliable heavy hitters, and quick, less accurate lower damage weapons for all styles. Give me a reason to own multiple weapons in the same tier again. Give me a reason to carry multiple weapons of the same combat style. This is something the game has been missing for a long time now.
"It is my belief that everything that occurs in life - both good and bad - should be used to forge oneself, to better oneself. Where Guthix sought balance in the world, I seek balance in oneself."

03-Jun-2019 13:06:10

Caynie
Jan Member 2016

Caynie

Posts: 229Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
We have been asking for this for a while. Global cooldowns are EOC's attack speeds.

Faster weapons should have shorter cooldowns.

04-Jun-2019 01:12:11 - Last edited on 04-Jun-2019 01:12:43 by Caynie

CHUCKvNORRIS
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2015

CHUCKvNORRIS

Posts: 1,124Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
honestly this gcd changer is probably the one to get removed. its quite simple, see, weapon damage tier is so linear its predictable. if you take a level 60 damage weapon, lets use mainahnd for now, 576 damage. a level 90 is 864. lets say the level 60 is attacking at 1.2s instead of 1.8, that means at 18s the level 90 has done 10 hits for 8640 damage. the level 60 will have preformed in the same time 15 hits, for 8640 damage.

that means anything that a level 60 weapon has 100% accuracy on, which believe me, is M U C H easier than it sounds, will have the same damage per second as a level 90 weapon. speed IS factored into abilities already, durring ability calculation all weapons of the same tier produce the same damage. theres no reason to have 1 weapon be dramatically better than the other ''because its faster'' that was kinda one of our problems 7 years ago.

thats just level 60 items people. if they release level 80 variants, already you see the problem.
SIGNATURES SUCK, AND ARE GOD AWFUL ANNOYING

04-Jun-2019 06:54:02

The Iniquity
Dec Member 2005

The Iniquity

Posts: 1,543Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'm aware that speed is factored into ability damage, but if they actually have the ability to change the GCD of individual weapons, they should do that instead, not in addition.
"It is my belief that everything that occurs in life - both good and bad - should be used to forge oneself, to better oneself. Where Guthix sought balance in the world, I seek balance in oneself."

04-Jun-2019 12:52:19

Caynie
Jan Member 2016

Caynie

Posts: 229Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
CHUCKvNORRIS said:

Here's the problem though: The way speed is taken into consideration for ability damage "feels" artificial, because no matter how fast or slow a weapon is, it will attack at the same exact speed, while doing similar
DPS
(same tier).

Let's say this system gets rebalanced to actually reflect that speed difference with Abilities Per Minute (
APM
) instead. In this system, a slow weapon will have to have its ability damage buffed dramatically, or the fast weapon has to be nerfed, whichever they consider, the
DPS
will still be similar. What's changing is the
APM
, making speed another factor in your equipment choice.

For example, in a Shieldbow vs 1H+Shield scenario, while the Shieldbow enjoys the benefits of being able to use both 2h and shield abilities, it will get a new downside; its
APM
will be slower compared to the less damaging 1H choice. This kind of tactical depth is missing from the current system.

Edit
: If the damage cap becomes a concern for slow weapons, they could give different attack speeds different damage caps. In other words, Slower weapons get bigger max hits.

Edit 2
: Not only does this make faster weapons more technical, but it also makes them harder to use by requiring a better
APM
from the player to enjoy their full benefits. So they could end up better in some players' hands.

04-Jun-2019 13:04:36 - Last edited on 04-Jun-2019 14:17:55 by Caynie

CHUCKvNORRIS
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2015

CHUCKvNORRIS

Posts: 1,124Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Caynie said:
CHUCKvNORRIS said:

Here's the problem though: The way speed is taken into consideration for ability damage "feels" artificial, because no matter how fast or slow a weapon is, it will attack at the same exact speed, while doing similar
DPS
(same tier).

Let's say this system gets rebalanced to actually reflect that speed difference with Abilities Per Minute (
APM
) instead. In this system, a slow weapon will have to have its ability damage buffed dramatically, or the fast weapon has to be nerfed, whichever they consider, the
DPS
will still be similar. What's changing is the
APM
, making speed another factor in your equipment choice.

For example, in a Shieldbow vs 1H+Shield scenario, while the Shieldbow enjoys the benefits of being able to use both 2h and shield abilities, it will get a new downside; its
APM
will be slower compared to the less damaging 1H choice. This kind of tactical depth is missing from the current system.

Edit
: If the damage cap becomes a concern for slow weapons, they could give different attack speeds different damage caps. In other words, Slower weapons get bigger max hits.

Edit 2
: Not only does this make faster weapons more technical, but it also makes them harder to use by requiring a better
APM
from the player to enjoy their full benefits. So they could end up better in some players' hands.
except we live in a rs where 4taa is the meta. plus, you're overcomplicating an alreayd simple system, why do the abilities have to be slower because of a 2h weapon? this makes dual wield already better for burst and over-kill is now a thing with 2h again. also, 4taa would bury all of this and be as good as c4t
SIGNATURES SUCK, AND ARE GOD AWFUL ANNOYING

04-Jun-2019 18:45:07

Caynie
Jan Member 2016

Caynie

Posts: 229Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
CHUCKvNORRIS said:
except we live in a rs where 4taa is the meta. plus, you're overcomplicating an alreayd simple system, why do the abilities have to be slower because of a 2h weapon? this makes dual wield already better for burst and over-kill is now a thing with 2h again. also, 4taa would bury all of this and be as good as c4t

It's not like these changes will remove 4taa. it all depends on how they balance the new GCDs, 4taa might end up being better or worse. (
Honestly, 4taa needs to get looked at, the game is not balanced around it, and it shows.
)

Duel wield will become harder to utilize fully in this system (More
APM
, less
Ability damage
). If it's actually better than 2H in the right hands, despite that, then that's good.

Overkilling isn't a problem, since weapon switching is a thing.

04-Jun-2019 20:13:08 - Last edited on 04-Jun-2019 20:30:55 by Caynie

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