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FMR - A broken systemThread is locked

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Ownage
Oct Member 2019

Ownage

Posts: 13,385Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hello there,

I've decided to create this thread because something has been concerning myself and other forumers for quite some time now. My concern lies with the Forum Moderation Review thread in Community Home.

Now then, the standard procedure for disagreement with an F-mods actions would be an instant redirection to the above thread. The thread is designed to make certain that F-Mods are acting accordingly as per their private guidelines and not abusing their abilities. This thread however, is concerning because it simply does not work. Looking at this forum, I have seen that there have been multiple discussions regarding this system and the same concerns have been raised on those discussions.

There have been times where I have reported legitimate issues because a moderator was out of line, but "The moderator's action was correct" seems to be the common trend throughout this thread, while another J-Mod might say something completely different. This is not to say I am mod shopping or anything of the sort, but once I elaborate and explain, another J-Mod may check the reports that day and have a completely different tone to the first J-Mod. FMR is entirely reliant upon which JMod(s) happens to be handling the complaints at the time.

In my opinion, the current system is broken. It seems that while we do have the option to report issues, the majority of the time, things aren’t seen from a player's point of view except for the moderator aspect. It doesn't seem to do us regular players any real favours besides the thread being just there. Some moderators are plain rude and its unfair that nothing is done about these issues even if the moderation on said thread was justified.

Are there any plans to improve the current system or any plans to scrap FMR as a whole in favour of a new system? I ask this because in its current state, FMR is pretty useless and there doesn't seem to be any indication for a fix any time soon.
@Uzair_RS
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13-Dec-2015 13:50:05 - Last edited on 13-Dec-2015 13:51:43 by Ownage

Ownage
Oct Member 2019

Ownage

Posts: 13,385Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
If I had to propose some improvements, it would be this:

- One Jmod should not have a final say, should be decided by two. If two Jmods are deciding it, it could make the system take longer, but it could improve player feelings towards the system.

- JMods should consider complaints from a player's view, and not just from a moderation perspective. Moderation should only be upheld if it's there to protect the community.

- Moderators who deal with threads in a rude or condescending manner should be told off as it’s unprofessional and might come across as personal towards that player.

Anyone agree or have more suggestions?
@Uzair_RS
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13-Dec-2015 13:50:20 - Last edited on 13-Dec-2015 13:57:46 by Ownage

Maxi

Maxi

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As the current forum system stands, we still rely on auto-hide threads rather than a concrete system which has the basis of appealing and asking for others to review something for them. I personally haven't had any issues with that thread but that's probably because I didn't report anyone there.

I know a lot of the FMods and why they'd action something which a lot of other people will think is overzealous or nitpicking. In short, I'll just say this problem along with many other problems are tied to each other in a single web of unsolved problems that will take a lot of time.

Maybe someday we'll have a better system in place for this like a ticketing system with the chance to appeal the result of the report and ask for someone else to review it.. It's not as if they'll be too busy with a forum that consists of ~37 active users on a normal day.
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13-Dec-2015 13:59:57 - Last edited on 13-Dec-2015 15:21:59 by Maxi

Anger Alt
Jul Gold Premier Club Member 2018

Anger Alt

Posts: 16,548Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Nice thread and I agree with you, there are some good points here. Your suggestions seem really good especially. Two JMods making a decision on any one incident would definitely improve the system in my opinion. The downside being it takes longer, but I'd rather it took longer and was fairer towards non-FMods.

I have a thread about FMR Anonymity. Allowing us to be anonymous with our reports on FMR would be another major improvement.

In theory, the FMR works fine. In practice, however, it does not. In the past, I've actually consulted with FMods prior to using the FMR to see if I should post there. I've shown them my potential FMR post and then posted it, only to be told by Jagex that it is incorrect. I've used the FMR about five times in the past, only using it when I see something which I'd consider to be 'outrageous' from an FMod. I've never had a reply saying the matter is being looked into or that something will be done. This means I can't help but feel the thread isn't working or my reports on FMR aren't being acknowledged.

Ownage, your point about FMods being impolite with moderation is very true, I think they should try and be kind and polite, especially if talking to a new forumer otherwise it can put them off from ever using these forums again. By leaving impolite moderation messages, it puts a really bad image of FMods in the players mind which doesn't help anyone at all. FMR should account for the quality of FModding and how they have acted, not just whether the moderation was correct or incorrect, for the sake of the FMods having a good image and representing our forums the best they can.
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13-Dec-2015 14:22:09 - Last edited on 16-Dec-2015 13:29:49 by Anger Alt

Rising Two

Rising Two

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Good thread. The two moderators idea is really good, but if I may, I also have another idea:

An forum messaging system that anyone can use, basically like a RS email. The reason I suggest this here is because it would give a way for JMods for send someone a quick message explaining why they took the actions they did.

Even if just one JMod was doing it, a quick and to-the-point personal message saying "Hey, here's why I upheld the moderator's decision" would go a long way to making players feel better about the FMR thread.

I'm imaging a little "Message" option right under our names like

The Real
Rising

Message

So if that were possible, it wouldn't be that hard for the JMods to do that, in my opinion.

But yeah, honestly whichever is easier for Jagex to do, maybe tasking two JMods at a time on the thread would be easier than actually changing the forums. One thing's for sure, it does need changed.

13-Dec-2015 14:28:07

Iceberg
Sep Member 2008

Iceberg

Posts: 19,556Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Anger Alt said:
In the past I've actually consulted with FMods prior to using the FMR to see if I should post there. I've shown them my potential FMR post and then posted it, only to be told by Jagex that it is incorrect.
I've had this happen before. It has made me wonder if whether the FMods that I had spoken to would've been in the wrong if they performed the action in their own way. Perhaps it may have been down to the fact that I had no part to play in the situation and was merely stalking threads, so there's nothing for me personally to appeal against.


I'm wondering would we be able to ask specific JMods through FMR or if we would have to use the community email instead? Like for example if there's a situation that i.e. Mod Balance has handled before and knows about the ins and outs of it, could we address certain JMods on FMR? FAO: Mod Balance - Please forward to Mod Balance as he is versed in this situation. ? It might put more people's minds at ease if we know that we can address certain JMods from situation to situation.
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13-Dec-2015 16:18:33 - Last edited on 13-Dec-2015 16:23:01 by Iceberg

Wolfblue42

Wolfblue42

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I think 1 issue with 2 jmods reviewing a case is that you'd have to show they both read. As it is now 1 jmod posts, but wouldn't this mean 2 jmods posting on the same issue in the same topic, could get kinda spammy. Though I guess they could say jmods x and y reviewed it and it stands, or that action was incorrect we're resolving it.

Discretion is kinda a tricky business. I mean say 2 jmods post and you disagree with their opinion still,isn't the result going to be the same. Maybe they should have 1 super hard headed aggressive mod and then 1 super soft extremely nice mod, some type of balance system idk. Kind of the issue with some mod actions too,what you feel is unjust others will think well yea that is warranted.

I do agree rudeness shouldn't really be allowed because like Kiara said, it can scare users away especially new ones. If you make 2 topics good ones at that, but are new to the forums and post in wrong forums and get instalocked with a rude comment, chances are said person wouldn't be coming back in the long run. Not really gonna defame them for doing their job,but they can do a job and not bite a person's head off, if that has been an issue.

Rudeness can be stopped and corrected but discretion is quite a large wall I'm not sure how you can fix. One person may think wow this topic is the greatest thing ever,another may think wow this is horrible how could you say this. Such is the beauty of the internet and having different opinions I suppose. I do feel discretion overall is your biggest concern.

13-Dec-2015 16:36:46

Kathy
May
fmod Gold Premier Club Member
2011

Kathy

Forum Moderator Posts: 18,806Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I don't actually use FMR, but Ive heard from a lot of forumers that they don't like how it works.

As with anything else, there can always be improvements made to make something better, and FMR wouldn't be an exception to this. However, I think it's great that such a system exists rather than none at all.

I have read some replies on FMR and I do see the point of the answers given, but I don't think it's meant to come across that way. But again, something can always be improved.

I did read the thread Kiara pointed out above about remaining anonymous as well. While this would not be visible to the player or F-Mod eye, it would be a nice touch if this was done too should the player request it.

Just my two cents and I shall be watching how this thread develops. :)
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13-Dec-2015 16:44:02

AppleTheElf

AppleTheElf

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I'll agree with the point that nothing will ever be perfect. With that said, I do think the system we currently have is better than some of the older systems that were in place - remember, prior to FMR the way to have an FMod action reviewed was to highlight the post, and as forumers we never received feedback back to say the highlight had been reviewed. With the current process, we do get that confirmation that it has been reviewed, which is a massive plus, even if the JMods happen to see things from a different point of view.

On the point of rude replies - its possible that the action may have been right in terms of whether the thread should remain open or be locked, a post hidden or not be hidden, a thread move being to the forum the author feels is best or to a different one that the author disagrees with, but the reply left had poor wording. The JMods may address the situation was "The action was appropriate," but as forumers we don't know what goes on behind the scenes with that. Its always possible that the FMod will still be contacted privately about the wording of the post; whether it happens or not we'll never know.

13-Dec-2015 17:29:56

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